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Eldorado search warrants detail seizure of multiple items
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Barry | 11:33 a.m. April 11, 2008
Almost sounds like Jim Jones and Jonestown, all over again. Frightening.
Cyanide? | 11:42 a.m. April 11, 2008
This whole thing is getting more disturbing by the day. Good going, Texas. Now
round �em all up, boot �em out, and
burn that place to the ground.
Go, Longhorns!
Go, Longhorns!
jim | 12:05 p.m. April 11, 2008
Hummmmm? Maybe now they can prove some dates and ages on those girls and
children. I hear they also found cyanide in the compound. Does anyone know
anything about this?
Comments continue below
Hey Barry | 12:15 p.m. April 11, 2008
Why don't you look into who was really behind the Jim Jones thing, this
sounds nothing like it. Look and study before you blog. But I agree it is
frightening, that all this was done (I do agree with protecting the children)
but with such a loosley worded search warrent and the liberty's that were
taken by the police. The warrent should of been more detailed, if they had been
planing this for such a long time. It is frightening that we do not see what
this as it truley is.
Dude | 12:32 p.m. April 11, 2008
Hey Barry at 12:15. Why don't you enlighten us, then if you are so smart.
I thought pedophelia was illegal in all 50 states.
Anonymous | 12:46 p.m. April 11, 2008
I would like to applaud the young girl who called the shelter and reported the
disgusting practices of the FLDS church. She is my new hero!
A mom
A mom
Sagacious Inquisitor | 1:04 p.m. April 11, 2008
Dude,
It is.
But, Do you want the police to bust into your house, church or vehicle just because some voice on a telephone accuses you of being a pedophile?
Pedophilia is evil and should be prosecuted in equal manner as any other expression of aberation in sexual identity or uncontrolled desires. Other similar sexually deviant actions include beastiality, homosexuality, exhibitionism, pornography, rape, etc.
A readly willingness to prosecute those who act in any of these evil ways, without firm evidence of such action, is a willingness to abandon the rule of law. Jack Boots in Nazi Germany were good at this form of enforcement. So are Jihadists today.
Though heinous the action, even more to be feared is the unbridled power of any Government to live beyond the laws which created that very Government.
What the Texas authorities have done may be a lawless as is the action of the FLDS regarding human rights.
Lets never abandon the rule of law for political expediency; nor to exercise and enforce our personal agenda, religious bias or habits.
It is.
But, Do you want the police to bust into your house, church or vehicle just because some voice on a telephone accuses you of being a pedophile?
Pedophilia is evil and should be prosecuted in equal manner as any other expression of aberation in sexual identity or uncontrolled desires. Other similar sexually deviant actions include beastiality, homosexuality, exhibitionism, pornography, rape, etc.
A readly willingness to prosecute those who act in any of these evil ways, without firm evidence of such action, is a willingness to abandon the rule of law. Jack Boots in Nazi Germany were good at this form of enforcement. So are Jihadists today.
Though heinous the action, even more to be feared is the unbridled power of any Government to live beyond the laws which created that very Government.
What the Texas authorities have done may be a lawless as is the action of the FLDS regarding human rights.
Lets never abandon the rule of law for political expediency; nor to exercise and enforce our personal agenda, religious bias or habits.
Melissa | 1:18 p.m. April 11, 2008
Wow ! thats cool they found prison letters written by Warren Jeffs. He's
about the ugliest polygamist cult guy I have ever laid eyes on. GEEZ! Although
none of these men are very good looking. To say the truth, they are all quite
homely and look quite scary!
How do did these men get away with this stuff for so long and for so many decades? It looks to me like we will be learning a lot more about these sex crazed people in the next few months.
How do did these men get away with this stuff for so long and for so many decades? It looks to me like we will be learning a lot more about these sex crazed people in the next few months.
amazed1 | 1:45 p.m. April 11, 2008
It is quite amazing that so many people are ready to jump on the "down with
the FLDS" bandwagon when what we have heard has been ONLY what the media
and ex-members have protrayed. There were two articles where FLDS members were
quoted and portrayed as anxious and concerned parents and those articles were
immediately lamblasted by many posters as siding with the FLDS. And yet every
article that quoted "ALLEGED" abuse and sex, etc. were hailed by
posters as the gospel truth. Kind of shows the perverted minds of the people.
Grammar Police | 2:01 p.m. April 11, 2008
I hate to sound pedantic, but the correct spelling is "Book of
MormonS" for the plural of the book, not "BookS of Mormon."
The plural of a generic noun that is expressed as a compound of words, such as "mother-in-law," may be written as "mothers-in-law" or "mother-in-laws." (Either way is acceptable). However, the plural of a title of a specific work, such as "Book of Mormon," even though it appears to be a compound word, is just "Book of Mormons," as in "There were several Book of Mormons found at the El Dorado site."
A title of a specific work is not a generic noun, but a proper noun. You wouldn't say "There were several "Wars and Peace" found at the El Dorado site."
The plural of a generic noun that is expressed as a compound of words, such as "mother-in-law," may be written as "mothers-in-law" or "mother-in-laws." (Either way is acceptable). However, the plural of a title of a specific work, such as "Book of Mormon," even though it appears to be a compound word, is just "Book of Mormons," as in "There were several Book of Mormons found at the El Dorado site."
A title of a specific work is not a generic noun, but a proper noun. You wouldn't say "There were several "Wars and Peace" found at the El Dorado site."
Coincidence??? | 2:03 p.m. April 11, 2008
Turns out the authorities have been sitting on this for 4 years now. Gee..and
now they decide to act with Mitt Romney is in line for the VP slot. Seems to be
more than a coincidence....
get it right | 2:13 p.m. April 11, 2008
to grammar police... it is bookS of Mormon. it is more than one book not more
than one Mormon.
thank you grammar police | 2:15 p.m. April 11, 2008
I personilly thinks tha we aut to hav mor of ya.. get the speling polace two!
Greg | 2:23 p.m. April 11, 2008
You are all wise to cast judgment now, rather than waiting for all the facts.
To Melissa | 2:18 p.m. April 11, 2008
You say, "we will be learning a lot more ... in the next few
months."
It appears that most of what was taken will be disallowed as evidence in court, as the method of obtaining the documents was outside the rule of law.
Huge, and probably illegal liberties are being taken by the authorities in disclosing to the public what you have already heard.
Once the lawsuits get into motion, I expect that most of what you hope to learn about the private affairs of this group will become sealed, and I expect that you won't be able to satisfy your lust for learning about the private lives of private people as easily as you think.
If I am wrong, and you are allowed to learn about things that should be protected under the constitution, then I'll have to wonder whether we still live in a free land, governed by law.
It appears that most of what was taken will be disallowed as evidence in court, as the method of obtaining the documents was outside the rule of law.
Huge, and probably illegal liberties are being taken by the authorities in disclosing to the public what you have already heard.
Once the lawsuits get into motion, I expect that most of what you hope to learn about the private affairs of this group will become sealed, and I expect that you won't be able to satisfy your lust for learning about the private lives of private people as easily as you think.
If I am wrong, and you are allowed to learn about things that should be protected under the constitution, then I'll have to wonder whether we still live in a free land, governed by law.
MOLLY M | 2:28 p.m. April 11, 2008
The correct wording would be "copies of the Book of Mormon" Coming
from pioneer heritage and polygamist background, my ancestor traveled 8 mos
pregnant on the train to testify in front of Congress. But the breeding of
little girls just to bear children at a early age is unthinkable!
Re: Sagacious Inquisitor | 2:29 p.m. April 11, 2008
You can't honestly compare CPS and Texas police to Nazi's? Last time I
checked, this wasn't about religion. It's about CHILDREN begin abused.
Also, I could be wrong but I don't think CPS is killing these people yet. I
would also not classify Fort Concho in the same category as a death camp or
labor camp.
Yearning For Zion, L.L.C. owns the ranch (Limited Liability Corporation). Shield of protection for their illegal activities. Why doesn't the prophet own it? Oh wait, he's a CRIMINAL. They KNOW that what they are doing is illegal.
They reported the FLDS playing a "shell" game with the children. How do you expect them to just search one house on the ranch? How do you expect them to know WHICH house to search? It's not like they have addresses. Why don't they have addresses? BECAUSE IT'S ONE PROPERTY.
Disgusting.
Yearning For Zion, L.L.C. owns the ranch (Limited Liability Corporation). Shield of protection for their illegal activities. Why doesn't the prophet own it? Oh wait, he's a CRIMINAL. They KNOW that what they are doing is illegal.
They reported the FLDS playing a "shell" game with the children. How do you expect them to just search one house on the ranch? How do you expect them to know WHICH house to search? It's not like they have addresses. Why don't they have addresses? BECAUSE IT'S ONE PROPERTY.
Disgusting.
Sagacious Inquisitor | 2:36 p.m. April 11, 2008
Grammar Police,
Although you may be somewhat close to technically correct, your pedantic argument makes no sense, particularly in this instance.
Using your assertion, would it be OK to say, "There were several War and Peaces"?
Are there really more books or wars? Or, are there more Peaces or Mormons?
In this, and similar cases, maybe it would be easier to simply say, "There were several copies of The Book of Mormon (or War and Peace)" rather than quibble about generic nouns as expressed in compound words which doesn't really satisfy the discussion or clarify the spelling accuracy.
Although you may be somewhat close to technically correct, your pedantic argument makes no sense, particularly in this instance.
Using your assertion, would it be OK to say, "There were several War and Peaces"?
Are there really more books or wars? Or, are there more Peaces or Mormons?
In this, and similar cases, maybe it would be easier to simply say, "There were several copies of The Book of Mormon (or War and Peace)" rather than quibble about generic nouns as expressed in compound words which doesn't really satisfy the discussion or clarify the spelling accuracy.
Danny | 2:33 p.m. April 11, 2008
The Jehovah's Witnesses have settled lawsuits alleging church policies
protected pedophile men who sexually abused children for many years.
JW Frederick McLean is one of the most-wanted fugitives in the United States
JW Frederick McLean is one of the most-wanted fugitives in the United States
They shreaded documents? | 2:34 p.m. April 11, 2008
Good golly! I guess I would be suspicious to these guys too. I shread
documents every day.
To Coincidence??? | 2:39 p.m. April 11, 2008
Saying that "now" they decide to act with Mitt Romney was in line for
VP seems a little silly. When "should" they have acted? When he was
in line for President?
Jessejames | 2:40 p.m. April 11, 2008
It's amazing how quickly we in America demonize those we don't
understand or care to try to understand. In a world were being a minority is
championed, you detractors sure are acting more like a lynch mob. If this was a
black community or a hispanic community, or a gay community all h*** would have
broken loose. But no, it's white priveldge FLDS at it's worst, right?
I can't believe so much validity has been given to these claims of abuse
and pedophilia. Why don't you professed christians out there throw a cloak
of charity over the people you despise so much.
Rich | 2:51 p.m. April 11, 2008
Much more than "some voice on a telephone" accusing an FLDS man of
raping a child led to this raid. If the FLDS church would not act to protect
children and instead protected the alleged abusers, then the people within the
church should be prosecuted as aiding and abetting the crime. Kudos to Texas
for having the courage to do what had to be done to protect innocent and
impressionable children. I wonder just how many girls under 16, 15, 14, and 13
have been forced into these "spiritual" marriages with older men.
Shame on those who have misused and misconstrued the revelations of God to
perpetuate a sickening, illegal and morally reprehensible practice. People will
do anything in the name of God, including following a nut case into the jungle,
signing over all their life's earnings, brainwashing their children,
abandoning their sons, fly airplanes into skyscrapers, cut the throats of
"infidels," and so on. I'm not saying the FLDS would follow
their leaders to do all things illegal if asked, but some of them might. Some
of them have likely talked themselves thinking that a 50-year-old having sex
with a 15 or 16-year-old immature girl is right.
Jessejames | 3:42 p.m. April 11, 2008
Rich:
You must live in a world of scandal that's more typical of Hollywood then your own community. Your typical! Your speculating and indulging in conjecture and rumor. Do you honestly think that 16, 17 year old girls marrying middle aged men is the norm. Your wrong Rich, and your intolerance helps make this world a scary place for people coming out of the FLDS. Kudos to you Rich. Your sense of healing and understanding is rich indeed.
You must live in a world of scandal that's more typical of Hollywood then your own community. Your typical! Your speculating and indulging in conjecture and rumor. Do you honestly think that 16, 17 year old girls marrying middle aged men is the norm. Your wrong Rich, and your intolerance helps make this world a scary place for people coming out of the FLDS. Kudos to you Rich. Your sense of healing and understanding is rich indeed.
Jessejames | 3:38 p.m. April 11, 2008
Rich:
I guess it was the nuts of the day too, who believed O'l Joe Smith's golden bible. Yea, they're sure are some crazies out there. You nailed Rich, you hit it right on the head.
I guess it was the nuts of the day too, who believed O'l Joe Smith's golden bible. Yea, they're sure are some crazies out there. You nailed Rich, you hit it right on the head.
californian | 3:44 p.m. April 11, 2008
Let me start out with a howdy to sagacious...can anyone tell me where I can see
a copy of the search warrant? Is it available on the web somewhere? I would
be interested in how detailed the warrant was considering they had an undercover
guy in the organization for four years. At the very least, this whole thing is
scary...kind of like the whole red scare/ McCarthy thing. I hate to think if
this goes unchecked, who could be next on the hit list.
I'd like to see those videos | 4:09 p.m. April 11, 2008
I would be very interested to see those 2 videos of the SWAT teams making entry
into the Temple that were seized in the raid.
Gotta feeling it's going to be awhile before those see the light of day.
Gotta feeling it's going to be awhile before those see the light of day.
None | 4:11 p.m. April 11, 2008
It's scary what the government has done. Where is the innocent until proven
guilty? Does this mean we better be on the look out for the government jumping
in and taking action in our lives. These actions are very communistic. Taking
all the children away from their parents with no proof. Maybe there are select
cases and I'm not saying their beliefs are correct or they should get away
with evil acts but many of these are good people. I have not seen a single
article that says why each child was taken from their mother. I'm sure in
many of the homes they were well taken care of.
Creekster ExUte | 4:21 p.m. April 11, 2008
Settle down people. The legal system is working. Neither the media nor the
reading public know the details. Until we do, the speculation is trite and
reactionary at best.
Grammar Police II | 4:54 p.m. April 11, 2008
I'm sorry, but your ancestor traveled for 8 months on a train? Pregnant
the entire time? I hope they had sleeping cars.
That said, I am grateful to my cousin, who reassures people that she has LDS relatives (me and my siblings) and we aren't at all like that, and we aren't child abusers, etc.
I hope they get these girls to safety, and I also hope that somebody teaches those men that the Gospel as taught by Joseph Smith puts moral agency as the very foundation stone of gospel salvation.
That said, I am grateful to my cousin, who reassures people that she has LDS relatives (me and my siblings) and we aren't at all like that, and we aren't child abusers, etc.
I hope they get these girls to safety, and I also hope that somebody teaches those men that the Gospel as taught by Joseph Smith puts moral agency as the very foundation stone of gospel salvation.
Mr Grammar Police... Say what? | 5:33 p.m. April 11, 2008
Mr. Grammar Police,
If you want to get so uppity, make sure you get it correct. The correct way to say it is "copies of the book of mormon". Check it out.
If you want to get so uppity, make sure you get it correct. The correct way to say it is "copies of the book of mormon". Check it out.
Doug S | 5:54 p.m. April 11, 2008
The New York Times is saying the "Cyanide documents" were in fact
pages from a first-aid manual explaining how to treat cyanide poisoning.
Why aren't you reporting this, Desnews?
Why aren't you reporting this, Desnews?
Brooke | 7:00 p.m. April 11, 2008
The children and the mothers have had rights their violated. We are moving to a
society where the Government will tell you what you are allowed to believe and
soon to think. I see nothing wrong with Catholics parents teaching their
children their beliefs or Baptists, Lutherans, Muslims and even the FLDS. The
State of Texas is trampling on the Constitution. Where is the Girl??? If I
were the judge I would make things right again. Children need their mothers and
fathers!!! Let them worship their God and I will worship mine.
jim | 9:21 p.m. April 11, 2008
viewing the footage on tv, most of the children were girls. What happened to
the boys?
FREEDOM! | 9:22 p.m. April 11, 2008
These FLDS woman and children have lived as slaves for two many decades, enough
is enough. The government will help show these families a new way of expressing
their own personal free and rights. It's called-- AMERICAN FREEDOM TO
CHOOSE!!!
No more abuse | 9:33 p.m. April 11, 2008
These FLDS woman and children will now be set free from slavery to make choices
for themselves with their own free will to choose for themselves. The government
has done the right thing. Sometimes cults need to be dissolved for the sake of
the children. The abuse within the FLDS cult has gone on far too long.
About Law | 10:34 p.m. April 11, 2008
to all of you so concerned about proper spelling instead of the reason we are
here. Get a life> I don't spell very well because I am old and legally
blind so I can't see to well. But it is not how correct our spelling is, it
is about how correct our heart and minds are. Now I will leave you with this.
The most evil thing a good man can do is: Do nothing to stop evil.
Be it good or bad be it right or wrong the way this is being handled is not the subject, Sometimes you must go out on a limb to save the kitten, Texas has gone out there and I for one as a mother thank them.
By the way most of you both pro and con had very good points, both sides have been very well served. But the children are the ones who need to be served and even thou I may not like the way I do support the effort. This is one time that the end justifies the means. PS I don't like cops, I used to be one. But I do support this
The most evil thing a good man can do is: Do nothing to stop evil.
Be it good or bad be it right or wrong the way this is being handled is not the subject, Sometimes you must go out on a limb to save the kitten, Texas has gone out there and I for one as a mother thank them.
By the way most of you both pro and con had very good points, both sides have been very well served. But the children are the ones who need to be served and even thou I may not like the way I do support the effort. This is one time that the end justifies the means. PS I don't like cops, I used to be one. But I do support this
the Romney factor | 2:07 a.m. April 12, 2008
"
Coincidence??? | 2:03 p.m. Apr. 11, 2008
Turns out the authorities have been sitting on this for 4 years now. Gee..and now they decide to act with Mitt Romney is in line for the VP slot. Seems to be more than a coincidence...."
hahahahahahahaha! Do you honestly believe that McCain is going to pick Romney for a VP? Didn't you hear McCain's mama on TV? McCain needs to win The South, he isn't going to latch onto Willard any time soon.
P.S. Regarding your conspiracy theory, are you expecting us to believe that the 'conspiratorial powers that be' knew that Romney was going to make a run for president four years ago?! Romney doesn't even know what he believes/stands for from day to day, let alone what he's actually going to do!
Coincidence??? | 2:03 p.m. Apr. 11, 2008
Turns out the authorities have been sitting on this for 4 years now. Gee..and now they decide to act with Mitt Romney is in line for the VP slot. Seems to be more than a coincidence...."
hahahahahahahaha! Do you honestly believe that McCain is going to pick Romney for a VP? Didn't you hear McCain's mama on TV? McCain needs to win The South, he isn't going to latch onto Willard any time soon.
P.S. Regarding your conspiracy theory, are you expecting us to believe that the 'conspiratorial powers that be' knew that Romney was going to make a run for president four years ago?! Romney doesn't even know what he believes/stands for from day to day, let alone what he's actually going to do!
Romney??? | 9:54 a.m. April 12, 2008
Romney is NOT a member of the FLDS church.
I am glad they finally had a phone call they could act on. I hope the mess gets sorted out as quickly as possible so that those who are willing and able to protect their children (the girls and the boys) will be able to have their children home with them. I hope that Texas has wonderful people who will step up and become understanding and loving foster parents. I hope the hearts and minds of all will be healed.
I am glad they finally had a phone call they could act on. I hope the mess gets sorted out as quickly as possible so that those who are willing and able to protect their children (the girls and the boys) will be able to have their children home with them. I hope that Texas has wonderful people who will step up and become understanding and loving foster parents. I hope the hearts and minds of all will be healed.
Christian | 5:48 p.m. April 16, 2008
Leave these Christian people alone! They may not be of your denomination, but
they are Christians. This is exactly why Thomas Jefferson said there should be
a wall of separation between church and state. The state has NO BUSINESS
interfering in church matters!!
lab | 10:09 p.m. April 16, 2008
God bless the women and children, and the fathers that truly love and want the
best for thier families. Be careful how you judge,for how you judge so shall you
be judged. If there was a call in your neighborhood of sexual abuse would that
give the law the right to remove the whole neighborhood? Were they right when
they took the native children away? Will this realy help any one?
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