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Men: Faithful surrounded temple but didn't fight raid
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Stephen | 6:56 a.m. April 11, 2008
Isn't interesting that the government will not enter a Mosque in a war torn
area, where THEY KNOW, not just suspect, murderes are hiding out but here in
America where we have civil rights they don't mind enetring a
"Sacred" place of worship, at the drop of a hat, or SUSPECTED law
breaking is taking place It's a fine line, but one that has been crossed,
Watch out all you other religions, except those whom the government might think
you will be offended, because of special privledges, and out of fear of
reprisal. Just so you'll know I'm not of this faith, nor do I agree
with it.
Stephen | 6:55 a.m. April 11, 2008
I wonder how many other religions have the local state, or federal government
placed informants. I would imagine it would be frightening to know.
Brook Bentley | 7:21 a.m. April 11, 2008
From all reports, the police were justified in their actions. There certainly
is a double standard out there when it comes to respecting religions. However,
I disagree with the whole concept of sanctuary, whether for Muslims or FLDS
members. Civil authorities have the responsibility to act if sexual abuse may
be occuring. Also, this story reports that the civil authorities met with the
FLDS Bishop and his lawyers to discuss the upcoming raid.
Comments continue below
.... Stephen | 7:28 a.m. April 11, 2008
It isn't suspected if you have an actual complaint, it's alleged.
The inability to find the girl does not disqualify the fact that they received the complaint, not for a second. It's always been suspected - with the call they had a request to move in. If someone called from a mosque saying they KNEW something was happening I'm sure there would be some way of entering or verifying.
The inability to find the girl does not disqualify the fact that they received the complaint, not for a second. It's always been suspected - with the call they had a request to move in. If someone called from a mosque saying they KNEW something was happening I'm sure there would be some way of entering or verifying.
to Stephen | 7:50 a.m. April 11, 2008
If your definition of "sacred" includes places where 14, 15 &
16yos are coerced into having sex with slimey middle aged men by being eternally
"sealed" to them then you don't have a clue about what places
should be protected and what places should be scoured for the evidence that will
put the people who sanction that away FOREVER.
Drop of a hat | 8:05 a.m. April 11, 2008
Oh Stephen, it wasn't at "a drop of a hat".
Asdrubal | 8:22 a.m. April 11, 2008
Texas will do what needs to be done to protect children from being raped and
abused. Good for them.
The reason that they didn't fight back is becaus the leaders (not the lay membership because they are kept ignorant of the outside world) saw what happend in Waco, and knew what would happen.
BOOM, one more sick, rapist, murderous cult wiped out.
Texas-2 Cults-0
The reason that they didn't fight back is becaus the leaders (not the lay membership because they are kept ignorant of the outside world) saw what happend in Waco, and knew what would happen.
BOOM, one more sick, rapist, murderous cult wiped out.
Texas-2 Cults-0
Poisonous Patriarchy | 9:09 a.m. April 11, 2008
This is what always happens when good ol' boys in patriarchal systems find
they can get away with anything.
Don | 9:06 a.m. April 11, 2008
Ya know...this raid is going to have the negative effect of confirming and
solidifying the paranoid delusion of all fringe or militia groups that the
government is actually going to invade their homes and take take their families
away so they'd better have the arsenal ready to fight the government off.
Come one all you second amendment supporters...time to give everyone an "I
told you so".
Raven | 9:09 a.m. April 11, 2008
Warren Jeffs and the FLDS certainly have a lot to answer for. However, are they
as demonic as disgruntled former members make them out to be? It's hard to
say. Things are probably more complicated than the demonizers make out.
Let's let the authorities investigate, indict, and prosecute individuals
who have broken the law by becoming sexually involved with underage girls. I
would also be open to prosecuting people for polygamy, on this condition: the
state prosecute ALL people guilty of sexual lawlessness (adulterors, sodomites,
fornicators, etc.). Let's stop preaching "anything goes" and then
acting shocked that some people practice polygamy.
No agenda? | 9:25 a.m. April 11, 2008
Sooo... The Texas Sheriff has had an inside informant investigating and giving
him "Good information" for the past 4 years???
How long has the compound been there?
I thought it was 3 years. Sounds like the FLDS families were living under suspicion from the local Sheriff pretty much from the day they arrived.
So, after 4 years of getting "Good information" from the inside they find NOTHING to act on, but DFS gets ONE phone call and it's time to bring in the troups, break down the doors of the Temple and take away all their children?
Are you telling me after 4 years of "Good information" they didn't get ANYTHING they could act on? But this one call (with no information that has yet to be corroborated) was justification for tanks, guns and remove every child?
Sounds like some of the "Good information" they got from the inside informant was that underage women were having sex in the Temple. I find that hard to believe. Obviously many of us don't and the Sherrif didn't, but it's interesting that they didn't find ANYONE in the temple. Did they really expect to find an Orgy when they broke the doors down?
How long has the compound been there?
I thought it was 3 years. Sounds like the FLDS families were living under suspicion from the local Sheriff pretty much from the day they arrived.
So, after 4 years of getting "Good information" from the inside they find NOTHING to act on, but DFS gets ONE phone call and it's time to bring in the troups, break down the doors of the Temple and take away all their children?
Are you telling me after 4 years of "Good information" they didn't get ANYTHING they could act on? But this one call (with no information that has yet to be corroborated) was justification for tanks, guns and remove every child?
Sounds like some of the "Good information" they got from the inside informant was that underage women were having sex in the Temple. I find that hard to believe. Obviously many of us don't and the Sherrif didn't, but it's interesting that they didn't find ANYONE in the temple. Did they really expect to find an Orgy when they broke the doors down?
Doug S | 9:25 a.m. April 11, 2008
"Drop of a hat": No, indeed. It was an anonymous call from someone
who local law enforcement have now admitted might not have even been at the
Texas compound (and, some have pointed out, used language that FLDS don't
typically use).
Feel better?
Feel better?
Good information | 9:45 a.m. April 11, 2008
Didn't some of the "Good Information" they got indicate that the
FLDS would resist to the death if the police went in?
Obviusly that wasn't true. Did they learn anything from Utah authorities and their overreaction when Jeffs was arrested (they claimed armed gangs of FLDS followers were going to try to break him out). Did anyone even see as much as a protester at the Jeffs trial? Much less an armed mob trying to overpower state officials and get him out like they expected?
Someone in this forum even said, "The reason they had to go in with armored personel carriers for the raid was that police were greated with "Automatic Gunfire" when they tried to serve the warrent. That's now known to be total BS, there was no armed resistence.
All those who believe whatever gosip they hear from their neighbor, commenters in this forum or Matt Lower need to open their minds and their hearts.
Most of the rumors and legends you hear about the FLDS are at most half true.
Protecting children is appropriate, but spreading unsubstantiated rumors about orgies in the temple with little girls (until there is some proof) and other rumors, isn't right.
Obviusly that wasn't true. Did they learn anything from Utah authorities and their overreaction when Jeffs was arrested (they claimed armed gangs of FLDS followers were going to try to break him out). Did anyone even see as much as a protester at the Jeffs trial? Much less an armed mob trying to overpower state officials and get him out like they expected?
Someone in this forum even said, "The reason they had to go in with armored personel carriers for the raid was that police were greated with "Automatic Gunfire" when they tried to serve the warrent. That's now known to be total BS, there was no armed resistence.
All those who believe whatever gosip they hear from their neighbor, commenters in this forum or Matt Lower need to open their minds and their hearts.
Most of the rumors and legends you hear about the FLDS are at most half true.
Protecting children is appropriate, but spreading unsubstantiated rumors about orgies in the temple with little girls (until there is some proof) and other rumors, isn't right.
Too "Assbrubal 8:22" | 9:46 a.m. April 11, 2008
Sooo... Who did they murder?
I like to try to find out where these rumors get started.
I like to try to find out where these rumors get started.
DCnTN | 9:50 a.m. April 11, 2008
It sounds to me like they have been planning for this moment for several years.
Just waiting for the chance to go in and break the community up.
FLDS Men | 10:18 a.m. April 11, 2008
They know they can not fight tanks and Combat equiptment
What did you expect them to do?
Judges can Violate your Constitutional Rights and they won't arrest him!
?????? Rights guarenteed by the Constitution
What did you expect them to do?
Judges can Violate your Constitutional Rights and they won't arrest him!
?????? Rights guarenteed by the Constitution
IndyTex Creekster | 10:53 a.m. April 11, 2008
Relax - let the legal system work this out. No one here can even pretend to
know or understand the details. What we do know is there was sufficient
probable cause for a judge to execute search warrants. No need for elevated
blood pressure until we know more.
Boo hoo | 11:07 a.m. April 11, 2008
The FLDS men were sobbing because their little harem was being shut down.
It's not a religion. It's a racket.
Robert | 11:34 a.m. April 11, 2008
Our laws do not tolerate child abuse, but it's just as important that when
it occurs, authorities investigate it and stop it in lawful ways. In this case,
police have rounded up more than four hundred children, separating them from
their parents, and taken them to who knows where, all for the sake of protecting
one supposed anonymous victim. I am surprised that there is little public
outrage. If the police did the same in a private school, or in a convent, or at
a workplace, most thoughtful people would call it improper.
the learning curve | 11:58 a.m. April 11, 2008
When is society going to get wise to the monstrous and self-serving (serving the
men) ways of our patriarchal cultures?
Shocked and Ashamed | 12:22 p.m. April 11, 2008
Can you say CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT? What would you do when the authorities
decended on your church and took away 400+ of your children.
At least part of the reason for the raid was false. They pulled a name out of a list a names of 'known sex offender' to justify this to the judge. They said he was in the compound and that the kids were in danger. He was verified in AZ so could not have been there!
My guess is 2 officers could have gone in, talked to those involved, made arrests as necessary with the support of the community. Instead it's a circus of pain.
We'll see if the judge is smart enough to end this farce.
At least part of the reason for the raid was false. They pulled a name out of a list a names of 'known sex offender' to justify this to the judge. They said he was in the compound and that the kids were in danger. He was verified in AZ so could not have been there!
My guess is 2 officers could have gone in, talked to those involved, made arrests as necessary with the support of the community. Instead it's a circus of pain.
We'll see if the judge is smart enough to end this farce.
hopefully | 12:35 p.m. April 11, 2008
the feds will find probable cause to do the same thing in colorado city and
hilldale....i know several people that have escaped.
all you self righteous people that are cryin over 'religious persecution' should move down here...
you will soon discover that the whole thing is a guise for pedophilia-word
all you self righteous people that are cryin over 'religious persecution' should move down here...
you will soon discover that the whole thing is a guise for pedophilia-word
HEAR ME LOUD & CLEAR | 1:19 p.m. April 11, 2008
CAN YOU SAY ELECTION YEAR???? You go sheriff..you are certainly on it! For four
years you've set back and allowed these people to rape young girls! The
Good Ole' Boy system hard at work. Even got Ole' Governor Rick Perry
involved, Texas Rangers (who used to actually stand for justice). I didn't
know they could be tugged into a mess like this. Shame, Shame. If the law
enforcement sat back for four years allowing this to go on, they are equally
guilty. Sickos!
Emotional | 2:12 p.m. April 11, 2008
You don't need to yell. Those with nothing worth saying usually do it
loudly to make up for their ignorance. A thought "What you are is so loud,
I cannot hear what you say!" My life has been FLDS all the way through.
Those are my friends and family, the people I love, being taken away. You who
are so adamant in your prejudice are unkind and unpleasant people who, by the
way, are very ignorant (yes, even you, "hopefully" at 12:35). Go ahead
blast back at me I've heard it all before.
Mink | 2:31 p.m. April 11, 2008
Asdrubal - dozens of children died at Waco. I guess that's one way to
protect them from being raped and abused.
The way to topple a corrupt organization is to go after the leaders, not the rank and file, many of whom may not be involved in the abuse. Utah and Arizona have made a good start with Jeffs. Where's the arrests in Texas? Nada - just hundreds of frightened children.
The way to topple a corrupt organization is to go after the leaders, not the rank and file, many of whom may not be involved in the abuse. Utah and Arizona have made a good start with Jeffs. Where's the arrests in Texas? Nada - just hundreds of frightened children.
Jessejames | 2:26 p.m. April 11, 2008
Hear Me Loud & Clear:
Finally a little unbiased perspective on the matter. When is Governor Perry up for re-election?
This would give his opposition party plenty of amo!
Finally a little unbiased perspective on the matter. When is Governor Perry up for re-election?
This would give his opposition party plenty of amo!
HEAR ME LOUD & CLEAR | 3:00 p.m. April 11, 2008
re:Jessejames
May 10th for the good Sheriff David R.Doran in Schleicher County not to mention that wonderful judge that signed the search warrants. Gov Rick is safe. He's been reelected.
Doug S | 3:36 p.m. April 11, 2008
"Hopefully":
OK, here's a lesson in constitutional law 101: You don't serve a search warrant so that you can find probable cause. You're supposed to have probable cause before you can get a search warrant.
OK, here's a lesson in constitutional law 101: You don't serve a search warrant so that you can find probable cause. You're supposed to have probable cause before you can get a search warrant.
TJ | 4:27 p.m. April 11, 2008
Well Doug S you have a good point. This was a polygamist community and sexual
abuse seems to be common in many such communities(not wanting to stereotype but
it has become common) so that gives a suspicion that it might be going on but
also there was a phone call and with what was stated in this article that was
said in the phone call would give probably cause. It seems they had it and
didn't get a warrant to find it. They already had it. And just a random
thought but if the leaders were confronted about the raid why didn't they
try to have the authorities hold off so they could find the girl who made the
call and confront her about it and present her to authorities? Medical exams can
show who has had children and if in fact she was pregnant again and if she had a
child then a DNA test could have been done to find the father. Just a completely
random thought though
Anonymous | 5:41 p.m. April 11, 2008
FOLLOW THE MONEY!
Stephen | 7:00 p.m. April 11, 2008
To all of you who disagree with what I wrote earlier, you don't remember
what freedom was. I was born in 1952, and anyone born after 1972, will know what
we have lost. We have had our freedom taken-nay we have given our freedom up for
security, and it is given back to us as privledges, offered by "The
Government." I believe this mess was a set up. It's tragic when there
is abuse of any kind,"(remeber this is all alleged this abuse) even when
the government abuses or rights. It's about civil rights, for all of us. I
say to the governments Stay out of our churches!!!!!!!!!! Where is the proof,
from this alleged caller. Suspicious
InSanAngelo | 10:16 p.m. April 11, 2008
Churches don't have beds in them. At least not here in Texas.
Re: Mink | 10:54 p.m. April 11, 2008
"...Where's the arrests in Texas? Nada - just hundreds of frightened
children..."
"Jeffs' son is one of two arrested at Texas FLDS compound"
"...SAN ANGELO, Texas -- The first man arrested at the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado is the oldest son of FLDS leader Warren S. Jeffs, according to former members of the sect.
On Monday, law officers arrested Levi Barlow Jeffs, 19, for interfering with the duties of a public servant, a class B misdemeanor. He was booked into jail but was released after posting bail..."
Stand by for more.
"Jeffs' son is one of two arrested at Texas FLDS compound"
"...SAN ANGELO, Texas -- The first man arrested at the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado is the oldest son of FLDS leader Warren S. Jeffs, according to former members of the sect.
On Monday, law officers arrested Levi Barlow Jeffs, 19, for interfering with the duties of a public servant, a class B misdemeanor. He was booked into jail but was released after posting bail..."
Stand by for more.
Giacomo | 11:02 p.m. April 11, 2008
Hey there InSanAngelo, that there fundamentalist mormon temple ain't no
church - it's a temple! Maybe there are beds in temples. I don't
know, I ain't never been in anything but a church whose doors are always
open so no need to unleash them jaws of life. Peculiar people all right.
Anonymous | 11:11 p.m. April 11, 2008
FLDS are not MORMONS! When will you ding-bats get that through your heads.
GentleDanite | 9:37 a.m. April 12, 2008
There are fundamentalist muslims and mainstream muslims, fundamentalist
christians and mainstream christians, fundamentalist mormons and mainstream
mormons. All disavow each other. That's the way it is, man.
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Texas law enforcement officials estimate that about 70 men and a few women remain at the Yearning For Zion Ranch, an FLDS compound that was raided last week after a girl alleged abuse at the ranch.
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