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Search: Were beds in temple used for teen sex?
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Concerned citizen | 4:19 a.m. April 10, 2008
This is really a tough call. I believe in religious freedom and I also believe
in personal freedom. Sometimes children are taken from their parents too
quickly, and foster care can be as damaging to them as the situation from which
they were removed. As an attorney I have found that the State is an extremely
poor parent, and children have been sexually abused and even died while in the
care of the State (group homes or foster homes) On the other hand, things sound
pretty problematic. I believe that the young mothers should be allowed to
choose what they do. If they want to leave, we should help them. But if they
want to go back, we should allow them to do so also, unless severe abuse is
found.
Camille | 4:24 a.m. April 10, 2008
I have the same ques. Why would a temple have to have beds? Do they
"worship" lying down? Very weird and disturbing.
Comments continue below
happy camper | 5:14 a.m. April 10, 2008
I hope the best for those who have been harmed by the FLDS. I remember Elder
Uchtdorf's talk at conference where being off the compass mark just a
degree or two can result in disaster. My friendship is extended to help in the
new lives many may be looking for.
russ | 5:56 a.m. April 10, 2008
If the sex in the temple is true, then... aren't you glad that Texas had
the courage to move on this allegation? Where has Utah's leadership been?
Apostate Religion Part II | 6:10 a.m. April 10, 2008
In a previous post I wrote "they" referring to those who use the bed.
I had in mind consenting adults not kids. Sorry for confusion.
Mimi | 6:20 a.m. April 10, 2008
I am LDS in Texas. FLDS, and all others who practice polygamy in Texas, Utah,
or wherever, are nothing more than pedophiles and slavers who use laws
protecting religious freedom to get away with it. Shame on Utah for not stepping
up long ago to protect those children.
ediddy | 6:55 a.m. April 10, 2008
This situation, for some reason, has my sensitivities worked up. Someone answer
a question for me. If a man or woman cohabitates with two or more or several
partners without the "constraints" of a legal or "spiritual"
marriage, no one bats an eye in this country. It's simply referred to as an
alternate lifestyle. Why is it that when the term marriage is tied to the same
cohabitation, it is illegal and feared and socially unacceptable? I know why I
don't favor polygamy, but why is it socially unacceptable in this
permissive country as an alternate lifestyle? If children are abused or partners
are enslaved, there are laws to deal with it, as well there ought to be, but why
is marriage to more than one spouse unacceptable when same sex marriages or
multiple cohabitations deemed by so many to be not only normal but deserving of
constitutional protection?? Why the hypocracy, and why the hobnail enforcement
against the community in Eldorado? Prosecute offenders if they can be
legitimately be found, but this deal seems to be way more than it needs to be.
DeLaval Milker | 7:14 a.m. April 10, 2008
Go texas. Let the world know that, there at least, this stuff won't be
allowed to go on with a nudge and a wink. If only we'd follow their lead.
Jurist | 7:15 a.m. April 10, 2008
The Scriptures are replete with admonitions to honor, uphold, and obey the law
of the land. Latter Day Prophets and Apostles continue this admonition to this
day.
Anonymous | 7:19 a.m. April 10, 2008
What will Texas have to pay out in claims for trama that is being endured by the
mothers and children. I hope the settlement with be huge in Texas tradition.
Herkermer | 7:31 a.m. April 10, 2008
Before it became known that pedophilia was involved, the state governments
remembered the disastrous results of the raids in the 1950s and largely let them
be. But the pedophilia aspect changes everything. The problem is not the
polygamous aspect of it so much as the coercive and sexually abusive aspect.
Right | 7:37 a.m. April 10, 2008
To Mimi: You are right. Not only for Texas and Utah, but all across this nation.
Lawfully married, faithful to your spouse, kind, loving and patient is what is
legal, as well as ethical and morally right.
Re.: ediddy | 7:42 a.m. April 10, 2008
The only reason or difference I can see is that the plural marriage is under the
religions "Biblical Law".
Yet the cohabitation/same-gender marriage is against "Biblical Law".
Therefore anything that is against "Biblical Law", in liberalistic views, must be allowed in society.
AIMHO
Yet the cohabitation/same-gender marriage is against "Biblical Law".
Therefore anything that is against "Biblical Law", in liberalistic views, must be allowed in society.
AIMHO
To Russ and Mimi | 7:48 a.m. April 10, 2008
The LDS Church headquarters in Utah has nothing to do with the FLDS in any part
of the world. They are not the same church. I wish people would get their heads
out of the sand and realize that. Stop blaming the LDS church leadership in Utah
for the mess that the FLDS church has gotten themselves in. It's like
blaming your neighbor for the stone that was thrown in another part of the
country.
ediddy | 7:45 a.m. April 10, 2008
To Russ:
In this whole situation, the word that has been overlooked is "IF." If this happened. If there was sex in the temple. If you are having an illicit relationship in your own home. If you are legally married. If you are in line with what I deem appropriate. If the phone call from the 16 year old ever took place. If the warrant was legitimate. IF???
In this whole situation, the word that has been overlooked is "IF." If this happened. If there was sex in the temple. If you are having an illicit relationship in your own home. If you are legally married. If you are in line with what I deem appropriate. If the phone call from the 16 year old ever took place. If the warrant was legitimate. IF???
Anonymous | 7:47 a.m. April 10, 2008
I hope Texas knows what it's doing....hopefully they have more information
that they are letting out. A bed in the temple was disturbed as if it was slept
in, a strand of hair found, equals sex in the bed in the temple? They have just
got to have more information than they are making public, don't they? I
hope Texas can get to the bottom of this and the truth can be proven.
Denise | 8:03 a.m. April 10, 2008
ediddy - for all the cases I have watched (and granted I am no legal expert)
they only prosecute polygamy when it involves child abuse, neglect, and/or
misuse of state funds.
But I get what you mean, completely. Unfortunately, having multiple wives is not usually the problem - it is how they treat them and their children. I hope "alternate life styles" are held similarly accountable. I imagine if a gay couple had abused their children we would really hear about it.
But I get what you mean, completely. Unfortunately, having multiple wives is not usually the problem - it is how they treat them and their children. I hope "alternate life styles" are held similarly accountable. I imagine if a gay couple had abused their children we would really hear about it.
Goodwill Slipping Fast? | 7:57 a.m. April 10, 2008
I think the goodwill toward the Church gained during the Romney campaign (some
may claim it was a wash) took a direct hit with two recent headline incidents -
the missionary vandalism in Colorado and now this. No matter what is said or
done, many will tie the LDS Church to Texas in a negative way. Even many who
understand that the Church stopped the practice over a hundred years ago
recognize that the LDS Church started the practice and doctrinal thinking that
the FLDS is now continuing. It has not been a good PR month for the Church.
Withhold judgement until... | 8:04 a.m. April 10, 2008
I would be SOMEWHAT surprised if the "bed in the temple teen sex orgy"
story turns out to be true. I think Texas is feeling alot of criticsm now for
their actions and carefully placed rumors CAN be effective in blunting
criticism. We'll see if it is true or not, eventually. At any rate, I
hold to my belief that search warrents should be selective and very specific. I
believe that the rights of parents should be protected. What we think is weird,
to someone else is a sacred belief. If we don't demand government
accountability in this case, WE may be next. Many people think our beliefs are
weird. Given what occurred in early territorial Utah...its not much of a
stretch to see why people still view us as weird.
lee | 8:04 a.m. April 10, 2008
Being LDS in Texas who lived in San Angelo, let me say that you are hearing
virtually nothing about the case. IF (big IF) the Texas Rangers are allowed to
keep control, it might turn out okay. IF the feds get involved, it MIGHT become
another Waco, which was a fed/reno/clinton debacle, not a Texas one. (I mean,
really: Like we care if you have weapons???? Think about it!)
Texas has a strong live-and-let-live-attitude, as well as a powerful attack-me-and-die-attitude. Outsiders don't understand; that doesn't bother us. But when you mess with children, life gets very bad for you, very fast. This is a child-abuse-issue not a polygamy-and-religious-issue.
Who DIDN'T know about the polygamy? Who CARED? IF you took them to court, jury-nullification might kill the law, so why bother enforcing it? Folks in that area don't care about the polygamy-issue. Polygamy is just an Anti-Mormon-vs-Mormon-issue brought up by desperate religionists who are losing their congregation/income.
Pray for the children; they are the ones who need it most. If you care about the adults, pray the feds stay out of it.
Texas has a strong live-and-let-live-attitude, as well as a powerful attack-me-and-die-attitude. Outsiders don't understand; that doesn't bother us. But when you mess with children, life gets very bad for you, very fast. This is a child-abuse-issue not a polygamy-and-religious-issue.
Who DIDN'T know about the polygamy? Who CARED? IF you took them to court, jury-nullification might kill the law, so why bother enforcing it? Folks in that area don't care about the polygamy-issue. Polygamy is just an Anti-Mormon-vs-Mormon-issue brought up by desperate religionists who are losing their congregation/income.
Pray for the children; they are the ones who need it most. If you care about the adults, pray the feds stay out of it.
ediddy | 8:10 a.m. April 10, 2008
I am appreciative of the forum offered by the DMN. They have included many of my
letters, but the selective censorship of much that is not allowed on this forum
illustrates why the print media is still a questionable source of factual
information.
So many of the entries in the last few days regarding the unfolding situation in Texas show the typical western vigilante mentality that prevails on into the 21st century. I recoil at the thought that any of you, so quick to suspend constitutional rights, might be called to jury duty should I ever be brought before a legal tribunal, justly or unjustly.
So many of the entries in the last few days regarding the unfolding situation in Texas show the typical western vigilante mentality that prevails on into the 21st century. I recoil at the thought that any of you, so quick to suspend constitutional rights, might be called to jury duty should I ever be brought before a legal tribunal, justly or unjustly.
BT | 8:14 a.m. April 10, 2008
just wondering: In Texas, the article says, a minor can be legally married with
a parent's consent. The same is also true in every other state of which I
know. Given the culture of the FLDS society, it is hard to believe that any of
these minors were married off without it. Perhaps parents were told they had to
by the sect leadership; perhaps the young women were coerced (we've seen
one case of that already which landed Jeffs in prison), in which case there is
still an area to investigate. But most likely many of them were willingly
married with parental consent, which makes much of the brouhaha a non-issue.
As to the way they are treated, well--given the way the article describes their condition--I've got a real problem with that, legally married or no. Personal choice certainly has to be respected, but it sounds like that of the young women in question is ignored, overruled, intimidated, denied, trampled, destroyed.
This isn't about illegal sexual activity with an underage girl--they are "legally" married by Texas definition. It sounds more like an issue of blatant spouse abuse in every sense of the word.
As to the way they are treated, well--given the way the article describes their condition--I've got a real problem with that, legally married or no. Personal choice certainly has to be respected, but it sounds like that of the young women in question is ignored, overruled, intimidated, denied, trampled, destroyed.
This isn't about illegal sexual activity with an underage girl--they are "legally" married by Texas definition. It sounds more like an issue of blatant spouse abuse in every sense of the word.
Polygamy vs. cohabitation | 8:14 a.m. April 10, 2008
Some argue that if you are not married, but simply cohabitating with more than
one woman no one cares and yet if you marry them it is suddenly disturbing.
Those who feel this way are missing the point. I don't think many would
care either way, if all involved were not coerced into it. The problem with the
FLDS, or at least how they are being portrayed (which is probably accurate, but
innocent until proven guilty....) is that underage teenage girls are given to
men in marriage whether they love the man or not (not that a 13-16 year old
should be making that type of life-altering decision anyway). When you force
someone who is underage to marry or cohabitate you deserve to go to jail, plain
and simple. By the way, since polygamy is illegal these people are not married
anyway, so in my opinion they are cohabitating and the problem is the abuse of
the innocent. So get over the hypothetical cohabite vs. polygamy argument, this
is all about child abuse.
ediddy | 8:21 a.m. April 10, 2008
To Mr. Milker,
How many other things are you willing to allow to go on with a nudge and a wink. I've read with interest many of your prior postings on a variety of subjects. There is some hypocracy going on here. Seems we only nudge and wink at what agrees with our own opinions. We seem willing to cast the first stone when it in our own best interest.
How many other things are you willing to allow to go on with a nudge and a wink. I've read with interest many of your prior postings on a variety of subjects. There is some hypocracy going on here. Seems we only nudge and wink at what agrees with our own opinions. We seem willing to cast the first stone when it in our own best interest.
Nadine | 8:18 a.m. April 10, 2008
Thank you, TX! Not knowing "who" called in, you certainly did the
right thing to protect all the minors by removing ALL of them from the
polygamist compound! They may now feel unashamed, have no fear and be willing
to talk about their experiences, abuses, and desires for the future, be able and
willing to answer questions, and feel protected! They can even request and
receive permanent removal from the compound if desired thanks to your calling in
700 social workers to assist you with your huge undertaking. All this can be
done without their being in the presence of their so-called
"patriarchs" for that would probably cause them to remain silent and
feel too intimidated to speak out, fearing being threatened, harmed with abuse
and repercussions after authorities left! Permitting the mothers to accompany
the children may enable THEM the same privileges as mentioned above too! We
must protect everyone--but especially children, America's greatest asset.
Thanks, TX�and UT, for you also did/do your best as well!
It's too bad �LDS� is part of the
"FLDS" name as it negatively reflects on the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints.
Cynthia | 8:27 a.m. April 10, 2008
I just wish the FLDS church would get out of the news already. Those of us who
are LDS realize that many people don't know the difference between FLDS and
LDS, and being even REMOTELY related to them gives LDS people a bad rap.
BYU Fan | 8:32 a.m. April 10, 2008
My favorite part of the article:
"During an interview Friday with a child who appeared to be 16, the girl was asked how old she was. The girl's husband, who is approximately 33 and was nearby during the interview, looked at his wife and said, "You are 18," the affidavit states. The girl, who has a 10-month-old baby, then replied that she was 18."
That's some pretty amazing discernment to be able to look at a girl and say she "appears" to be 16 - not 15, not 17, but 16. Not excusing what's going on down there, I'm just sayin'...
"During an interview Friday with a child who appeared to be 16, the girl was asked how old she was. The girl's husband, who is approximately 33 and was nearby during the interview, looked at his wife and said, "You are 18," the affidavit states. The girl, who has a 10-month-old baby, then replied that she was 18."
That's some pretty amazing discernment to be able to look at a girl and say she "appears" to be 16 - not 15, not 17, but 16. Not excusing what's going on down there, I'm just sayin'...
Disgusted | 8:28 a.m. April 10, 2008
So many of you are coming in defense of these men. Let�s
face it, they are criminals. As far as the law is concern, polygamy is illegal,
marrying underage girls is illegal. I find it sad, that these children have
been brought up to satisfy a few men that want to be demigods.
I�m glad Texas is doing something about it.
jomarcho | 8:28 a.m. April 10, 2008
Places where the public go will have beds for those who become ill, just like
the schools. They are areas where the ill can wait for medical attention. I
don't know about their temple beds, but what if that's all they are?
Wait for the facts.
It's sounds horrible, and maybe it is, but why borrow trouble until we know.
It's sounds horrible, and maybe it is, but why borrow trouble until we know.
GT | 8:33 a.m. April 10, 2008
This is a SOAP OPERA!!!
Matthew | 8:48 a.m. April 10, 2008
The only reason the authorities in Texas and so many other people are up in arms
is that these people practice polygamy and dress old-fashioned.
If the same ALLEGED abuses were being committed in a community of alcohol drinking, foulmouthed, tattooed, people that never went to church, no one would have lifted a finger or said �boo.� Look around you, with your eyes open, at all the wrong, and illegal stuff people are doing and which the popular culture embraces.
Wrong is wrong, but the hypocrisy of society in how this is being handled is appalling.
If the same ALLEGED abuses were being committed in a community of alcohol drinking, foulmouthed, tattooed, people that never went to church, no one would have lifted a finger or said �boo.� Look around you, with your eyes open, at all the wrong, and illegal stuff people are doing and which the popular culture embraces.
Wrong is wrong, but the hypocrisy of society in how this is being handled is appalling.
joelaf | 8:55 a.m. April 10, 2008
I am 48. My cutoff bottomend age for women I would date is late 30's
(depends on her personality) If I was presented with the prospect of marriage,
dating, or "just sex" with a teen, I would be violently ill. What does
a 33 y/o man have in common with a 15,16 18 or whatever y/o girl?
nvlawyer | 8:51 a.m. April 10, 2008
Let's see, we have the word of a fundamentalist baptist sheriff that lewd
behavior was occurring the temple because he "heard" about it from a
disaffected former member of the FLDS (no axe to grind there) and he found a
strand of female hair (from someone's head) on the bed sheets. Let's
see, didn't we just learn that people were staying inside the temple to
avoid persecution and now those same people are accused of lewd behavior. My
only question is who saw ANYTHING? No on did. I may not agree with polygamy or
"spiritual wives" but this sounds like religious persecution at its
best. The FBI needs to be involved so we can burn down all the buildings. SO
WHERE IS THIS 16 YEAR OLD GIRL AND HER 8 MONTH OLD BABY. It seems she should be
coming out front and center. Are we to believe she is being hidden despite the
fact that the polygamists didn't know about the phone calls? Is it
possible that this is also a disaffected member of the FLDS posing as a 16 year
old girl. Truth mixed with lies.
re: Russ | 8:51 a.m. April 10, 2008
If... But what if they're not?
I didn't see any evidence in this article to back up the sensationalist title. The TITLE of this article leads you to guess that there is hard, factual evidence that the beds are there specifically for older men to have sex in the temple with underage girls.
I have no idea whether that is true, but it looks from what little was said in the article that the title was developed just for a sensational "National Enquirer" type of lead in to get you to read the article. No basis in fact -- just a way to smear both the FLDS, and LDS by association.
The thing that disturbs me most is what appears to be dishonesty in reporting here. I'll decide whether to be disturbed about the actual situation after I hear some hard facts. But so far, the reporting on this incident seems to be mostly conjecture by reporters with a bias and ax to grind.
I didn't see any evidence in this article to back up the sensationalist title. The TITLE of this article leads you to guess that there is hard, factual evidence that the beds are there specifically for older men to have sex in the temple with underage girls.
I have no idea whether that is true, but it looks from what little was said in the article that the title was developed just for a sensational "National Enquirer" type of lead in to get you to read the article. No basis in fact -- just a way to smear both the FLDS, and LDS by association.
The thing that disturbs me most is what appears to be dishonesty in reporting here. I'll decide whether to be disturbed about the actual situation after I hear some hard facts. But so far, the reporting on this incident seems to be mostly conjecture by reporters with a bias and ax to grind.
Ernest T. Bass | 8:58 a.m. April 10, 2008
This is the way it was practiced from the beginning.
DC132
DC132
Foolish | 8:52 a.m. April 10, 2008
What kind of fool interviews an alleged victim with the alleged perpetrator in
the room?
Kate | 8:59 a.m. April 10, 2008
I have very mixed feelings about this raid. I believe that "marriages"
to underage girls is absolutely wrong, and should be stopped. But I am wondering
if uprooting nearly 500 women and children was the answer. I feel so badly for
those people, this must be a hard time for them. (The innocent women and
children, I mean)
SB | 8:53 a.m. April 10, 2008
First of all let me say that I think this "lifestyle" is just plain
wrong. Teenage girls being forced to marry and have children with no regard to
their own ability to choose is evil.
That said, however, I am extremely uncomfortable with the government storming in and removing all of the children. They had better have had some extremely compelling evidence and clear authority to do so. I'm not defending the rights of perpetrators. This is a horrible situation and I hope those who have been victimized can get help. I just think it is a very slippery slope for the government to barge in and trample over personal liberties.
I hope they haven't just put these children in a worse situation.
That said, however, I am extremely uncomfortable with the government storming in and removing all of the children. They had better have had some extremely compelling evidence and clear authority to do so. I'm not defending the rights of perpetrators. This is a horrible situation and I hope those who have been victimized can get help. I just think it is a very slippery slope for the government to barge in and trample over personal liberties.
I hope they haven't just put these children in a worse situation.
Ken | 8:58 a.m. April 10, 2008
There was never any revelation for polygamy. This was a horrible Hoax! Using God
to get a good woman to have sex. Very disturbing. Some men are controlling and
will go to great lengths to do evil to control a woman. I think these kind of
religions are to be condemned by God. I believe God will have his day with these
men.
speaking of law of the land | 8:56 a.m. April 10, 2008
Differences between FLDS and LDS groups took place ONLY after it became evident
that Utah LDS would NEVER become a state until the practice of Polygamy was
discontinued.
It is common knowledge that polygamy still exists in Utah.
It is common knowledge that polygamy still exists in Utah.
New Covenant | 8:57 a.m. April 10, 2008
In the New Testament,Jesus makes it clear, Marriage is between a man and a
woman,Saint Paul in the epistle of Timothy and in Titus an Elder must be married
to a women, not many or married to another man.
Not so nice people | 9:09 a.m. April 10, 2008
It remains to be seen if the due process of gathering evidence in Texas produces
proof of the implicit allegations of unlawful sex with under 16's or the
law agencies have gone in Waco style. Hopefully the description of bedding,
hairs etc is accompanied by police protecting rather than contaminating a
potential forensic mountain of evidence.
The sheer scale of unlawful practices is the truly damaging sitiuation for women and especially young girls who have been sexualised within a veneer of religious belief.
The sheer scale of unlawful practices is the truly damaging sitiuation for women and especially young girls who have been sexualised within a veneer of religious belief.
this is sick | 9:03 a.m. April 10, 2008
Mimi | 6:20 a.m. Apr. 10, 2008 - I agree.
RE; Russ and Mimi | 9:09 a.m. April 10, 2008
The last time I checked Utah brought to trial two polygamous leaders Tom Green
and Warren Jeffs and sent them to prison. Utah has also passed Jessica's
law which sends perps to prison for 25 years to life for child rape and sexual
assault on a minor. Texas has a softer version of Jessica's law not as
tough as Utah's. So, please get off Utah's back. Prosecutions are
happening here and those convicted are getting long prison terms.
SurfDude | 9:10 a.m. April 10, 2008
I'm just happy to see Texas had the guts to completely take this compound
apart. Utah and Arizona have not been as gutsy. I've been in Utah about a
decade (and I'm LDS), but I keep wondering if there's some unspoken
reason for tolerating the polygamists that I just don't get. Are we as a
society tolerating them because we sympathize with the way many Utah pioneers
felt when they were being hunted down and prosecuted for polygamy in the 1800s?
Is that the reason we let these people keep doing what they're doing?
Someone enlighten me, because I really don't understand the tolerance we
show here for polygamy. In my opinion, it's a corrupt practice by apostate
people who have almost nothing in common with our ancestor polygamists. They are
using religion as a means to abuse young girls and gratify older men. It's
a horror, and I applaud any law enforcement agency that has the guts to try to
dismantle it.
sffilk | 9:10 a.m. April 10, 2008
Beds in a temple? Doesn't matter where they are. They shouldn't be
in a temple.
ExTexan | 9:13 a.m. April 10, 2008
There are certainly a lot of issues here. One thing that I have been wondering
about has to do with the validation of the initial complaint or phone call. Has
anyone seen the hospital records? Xrays of broken ribs? As this unfolds I will
be interested to see if any evidence is produced to verify the alleged assault.
Paternity testing (if they ever find the gal and her baby) will certainly answer
a lot.
Anonymous | 9:17 a.m. April 10, 2008
How can anyone say that FLDS and Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
aren't related? They both began with Joseph Smith's specific
teachings and example (he had 14 yo brides too, you know!). The only difference
is they still live what Joseph Smith preached and said God *demanded* of Mormons
by sending an angel with a flaming sword.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints still has section 132 and still seals men to multiple wives for the Celestial Kingdom.
Only Church of Christ or RLDS can say that they recognized nutz or morally reprehensible when they heard it.
You've all known that perfectly well all these years. And I suspect that's why UT has turned their back and allowed the same thing to go on for 100 years.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints still has section 132 and still seals men to multiple wives for the Celestial Kingdom.
Only Church of Christ or RLDS can say that they recognized nutz or morally reprehensible when they heard it.
You've all known that perfectly well all these years. And I suspect that's why UT has turned their back and allowed the same thing to go on for 100 years.
strange people | 9:27 a.m. April 10, 2008
Watching the TV and reading the papers report on this, it is like that are
feeling really, really, bad for their cousin who they know is a really good guy,
but got caught and they wish they could speak out and help, but then everyone
would know about the rest of the family.
Two days ago, an editorial in the St. George Spectrum, the editors said "Frankly, it's not the government's business how many wives a man chooses to have and support."
Makes one wonder just how far removed they really are.
Two days ago, an editorial in the St. George Spectrum, the editors said "Frankly, it's not the government's business how many wives a man chooses to have and support."
Makes one wonder just how far removed they really are.
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Newly unsealed portions of a search warrant have provided a glimpse of some of what officers saw at the FLDS ranch, including inside the temple.
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The Founders were Deists, not Christians. Now what?
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without knowing where they were, and getting physical evidence, it would be hard to tell what they were being used for. Perhaps they were in a nursery area. We don't know. We just have the word of one former member.
I still feel, based on the lack of evidence publicized, that violating someone else's temple is violating the constitution.
This whole thing is being handled wrong. How close it this to Waco?