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Final tally: 416 children removed
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CNN International | 2:17 a.m. April 9, 2008
CNN and BBC perpetuate the polygamist stereotype of Mormons internationally by
continuing to call the FLDS sect a "fundamentalist" Mormon sect. From
my hotel in Budapest last week it took them over a day to begin adding that the
Mormon Church officially disavowed polygamy over a hundred years ago. The
Spanish (Spain) channel TVE never did report that fact. It was always
"secta mormona fundamentalista." Add to that mistranslations of
movies (in Witness, with Harrison Ford, for example, the Spanish (Spain) version
translates "Amish" as "Mormon") and it is no wonder that the
world has no idea what a Mormon really is. It's not like they get American
Idol in Europe.
hoping for the best | 4:23 a.m. April 9, 2008
What's not being said in the news, is that the LDS version of polygamy
(when practiced) and the FLDS version of polygamy are two different ways of
practicing a Biblical principle. At NO time in the history of polygamy in the
LDS church did Joseph Smith or any of the people who practiced this, EVER
condone such activity or live this way. Women and children have always been
viewed as valuable people, as God's children, by our church leaders and the
leadership of the church has always spoken against and continues to speak
against any kind of abuse or mistreatment of their families.
The fundamentalists have perverted the practice of polygamy.
My heart goes out to the women and children, and the innocent boys who are brainwashed to treat their women and children this way.
The fundamentalists have perverted the practice of polygamy.
My heart goes out to the women and children, and the innocent boys who are brainwashed to treat their women and children this way.
Comments continue below
Lee | 5:21 a.m. April 9, 2008
Is D & C 132 still relavant?
Carole Knowles | 5:22 a.m. April 9, 2008
Has the LDS church issued a comment on the situation in Texas yet? Maybe I
missed it.
Dan | 5:29 a.m. April 9, 2008
All I can say is that I feel very much for these families rip apart by this act
that was violent and direspectful.
Southern Utah Resident | 5:31 a.m. April 9, 2008
The authorities in Texas are doing what Utah's own attorney general Mark
Shurtleff has refused to do... PROTECT KIDS.
russ | 5:47 a.m. April 9, 2008
Don't blame the FLDS for your troubles if you are Mormon. You once
endorsed polygamy, had leaders who excelled in it, etc. There are Mormons in
Utah county, etc., who still practice polygamy. And Mormons who know... do not
report on them.
Don't blame the FLDS for your troubles. Check the mirror of your history and your present day situation.
Don't blame the FLDS for your troubles. Check the mirror of your history and your present day situation.
Prosecutor | 5:43 a.m. April 9, 2008
A Peculiar People:
I agree "fundamentalist" is an invalid discription, but I think "insurgent" is a better descriptor than "extremist."
Extremist implies unusual zeal in compliance with doctrinal tenets. FLDS are just the opposite. They are in open rebellion against the Gospel tenet that is the hallmark of our faith -- continued revelation of God's will to His Prophet. In that sense, they have made themselves insurgents: [Free Online Dictionary] "a member of an irregular . . . force that fights a stronger force . . . ."
As you mention, their actions have had the effect of creating fodder for those who would portray us as terminally strange. What better way to fight against the advancement of God's work on earth?
I agree "fundamentalist" is an invalid discription, but I think "insurgent" is a better descriptor than "extremist."
Extremist implies unusual zeal in compliance with doctrinal tenets. FLDS are just the opposite. They are in open rebellion against the Gospel tenet that is the hallmark of our faith -- continued revelation of God's will to His Prophet. In that sense, they have made themselves insurgents: [Free Online Dictionary] "a member of an irregular . . . force that fights a stronger force . . . ."
As you mention, their actions have had the effect of creating fodder for those who would portray us as terminally strange. What better way to fight against the advancement of God's work on earth?
SICK, SICK, SICK!! | 5:48 a.m. April 9, 2008
I have two daughters who are at this so called child bearing age and there is no
way that they have begun to live. These older guys are not men in the least when
you can expect and not respect. I just wonder how many sects are in Utah with
same kind of perverted thinking. Next time my family goes on a trip to
south-central or draper utah for that matter i will be a watching! 1890 , the
indians had to give this practice up and they lived here in the state but
it's spiritual because warren jeffs said so!They would have been shot down
like dogs which they often were. and yes the times have changed as even a dog or
a cat is afforded more protection than these children when these groups are
allowed to commit felony after felony. You can look all clean , wholessome but
it is the ACT that determines what's inside! Live the law of the land!
These groups aren't any better than anyone else!
Talisyn | 6:03 a.m. April 9, 2008
Is it just me or does it seem the state of Texas had planned this right down the
the smallest detail long before the alleged call from the girl no one can find
or even prove existed came in? yeah abuse of teen girls is bad, yes they are
very vulnerable at that age (i was that age once so i know), but to take over
400 kids away and make them wards of the state even before interviewing them? it
sends a chill through me. if it happens like that there, with only one
unverified phone call, then what's to stop it from happening to someone
else? what's to stop someone angry with me for whatever dumb reason from
calling cps and make allegations about my fitness as a mother? it's scary
how easily the gov't can take your kids away from you. for some reason i
thought it would be harder.
Ouch | 6:17 a.m. April 9, 2008
It needed to be done, but it still hurts to consider the huge disruption to the
kids. Of course, it's also a huge disruption to throw a young girl to an
old man and tell her it's her only function in life to crank out babies.
Gail | 6:19 a.m. April 9, 2008
This event has as much to do with the "Mormon" church as the Black
Panthers have to do with Zoos. The FLDS smear the name of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latterday Saints with their behavior. There just is no connection
between the two no matter the name they call themselves.
liberal larry | 6:19 a.m. April 9, 2008
Because of Utah's cultural roots in polygamy, we've tended to turn a
blind eye towards the abuses of the FLDS culture. This is a good reminder that
the rest of the nation doesn't share this attitude.
Boy Howdy | 6:29 a.m. April 9, 2008
I'm definately not in favor of the government invading homes and taking
away children. Where is the proof of their endangerment? Having said that, I
feel that teenage girls bearing children fathered by adult men is not tolerable.
Until they are old enough to make their own rational choices, girls (and boys)
have the right to be protected from any illegal abuses being forced upon them.
I'm glad that it is Texas and not Utah that is handling this
"chocolate mess."
dubious | 6:26 a.m. April 9, 2008
So far, all the lurid details that the authorities have released have come from
a girl that we're not even sure exists. They've have real kids in
custody for days. Why hasn't any of the lurid stuff come from someone
real? This is getting fishier and fishier.
Debbie | 6:27 a.m. April 9, 2008
The evil that exist in this kind of setting is urged and encouraged by Satan
himself who loves to see the world view "Mormons" in this light. It
serves his purposes well to perpetuate the confusion. The Fundamentalists also
like the confusion and they continue the "Latter-day Saints" part of
the name because they want to be seen as Mormons who are merely above the laws
of the land and the true Gospel.
Such a tragic situation of women and children who have suffered at the hands of their abusers and yet know no other life. No doubt the Stockholm syndrome will be rampant, where they have come to bond with their captors - they know no other way. While I hate that children must be separated from their mothers, it is important for them to see another way to live. I hope Texas can provide such an example for them, can give them hope for a better future, reunite mothers and children in a safer place and find the right solution for their long-term welfare. I wish I had more confidence in child protective services, foster care in general (if they even have enough). This is a good start.
Such a tragic situation of women and children who have suffered at the hands of their abusers and yet know no other life. No doubt the Stockholm syndrome will be rampant, where they have come to bond with their captors - they know no other way. While I hate that children must be separated from their mothers, it is important for them to see another way to live. I hope Texas can provide such an example for them, can give them hope for a better future, reunite mothers and children in a safer place and find the right solution for their long-term welfare. I wish I had more confidence in child protective services, foster care in general (if they even have enough). This is a good start.
Re: A Peculiar People | 6:40 a.m. April 9, 2008
Well, mormons are a bit peculiar to the outside world. And yes, if the mormons
drop a practice, such as polygamy, and a branch splits off to keep the practice,
such as the FLDS, the mormons will get bad press.
And now, for all you frustrated mormons:
What kind of press do you think the early Christians got?
And now, for all you frustrated mormons:
What kind of press do you think the early Christians got?
KingM | 6:59 a.m. April 9, 2008
I don't understand how they can break up this whole group based on one
allegation. I'm not trying to defend the FLDS cult, but carrying people off
from their homes without charging them with any crimes and then shipping their
children off to foster care? I don't understand how that is legal.
And I'm more than a little suspicious that they were carted off in those baptist church buses and their children farmed off to local church members. Sounds like one of their motives is to "save" these kids in the evangelical sense of the word.
And I'm more than a little suspicious that they were carted off in those baptist church buses and their children farmed off to local church members. Sounds like one of their motives is to "save" these kids in the evangelical sense of the word.
Thank you Texas | 7:05 a.m. April 9, 2008
For having the courage to put an end to institutionalized sex slavery and child
abuse operating under the guise of "religious beliefs."
Hopefully, Arizona and Utah will now be shamed into taking seriously their responsibility to investigate the sexual abuse of children that has been occuring in the FLDS communities for far too long.
I feel sorry for the FLDS people who have been lead by their evil leaders into this filthy, incestuous practice of forcing young girls into sex slavery.
Hopefully, Arizona and Utah will now be shamed into taking seriously their responsibility to investigate the sexual abuse of children that has been occuring in the FLDS communities for far too long.
I feel sorry for the FLDS people who have been lead by their evil leaders into this filthy, incestuous practice of forcing young girls into sex slavery.
One Voice | 7:22 a.m. April 9, 2008
This court affidavite means very little to me at this point. Until they attach
a real name to it, and locate the girl that supposedly made the call, then we
are all shouting guilty until proven innocent! How do we know that the call even
came from within the ranch? It wouldn't be hard for someone else to place
that call. As far as this group not representing Mormons, I would be so bold as
to say that this group isn't representing the majority of Fundamentalists.
I'm not a member of the Mormon Church, or a polygamist, but I've
worked with several polygamists in Salt Lake and some in Southern Utah, and if
they didn't tell you what they believed, you would never know. The
polygamist people I've worked with were honest and moral people. I just
find it strange that members of the Mormon Church get so distraught about being
lumped together with these folks, and then turn around and lump ALL polygamists
together. Even if there proves to be abuse down there, it should be dealt with
case by case and not Nazi style where we round up everyone that lives that
lifestyle and ship them off.
Sad for the children | 7:25 a.m. April 9, 2008
There are children being hurt and people are whining about the PR of a church
that dances in and out of the polygamy issue?
Mormonism has NEVER renounced polygamy. The merely stopped because they saw political advantage in stopping.
Mormons who worry about PR rather than children are puffed up in their pride. Pathetic!
Mormonism has NEVER renounced polygamy. The merely stopped because they saw political advantage in stopping.
Mormons who worry about PR rather than children are puffed up in their pride. Pathetic!
Heather | 7:35 a.m. April 9, 2008
As an active LDS member, I have followed this story with interest. Dispite some
comments, Mormons don't practice polygamy, because God does not condone it
and has no need for it like He did in the past. Like many of you, LDS people
believe in the commandments, we actually teach abstinence before marriage and
marriage to one partner like the Bible teaches. We have high morals. For
perspectives sake in this matter, we believe "thou shalt not
kill".....but we believe that we can defend our country and
therefore....kill people. Things aren't always as black and white as we
may like it to be. How many of us would never want to kill someone, but could
end up drafted to war and killing someone.....it happens. If you have issue
with why God asked the early Mormons to practice polygamy, maybe you should pray
and ask....or wait and ask. I know Joseph Smith was a prophet, I know the Book
of Mormon is another testiment of Jesus Christ and is a record of people in the
Ancient Americas who saw Him. Therefore, I know in faith, that someday we will
have the answers to why these things happened.
DISGUSTED | 7:36 a.m. April 9, 2008
Washington County Sheriff Kirk Smith should learn a thing or two from this...
like do your job! This stuff has been going on under his nose for years and he chooses to ignore it.
like do your job! This stuff has been going on under his nose for years and he chooses to ignore it.
Lee | 7:41 a.m. April 9, 2008
Why would the LDS church need to comment on what is going on with the FLDS
church?
They are not connected in any way what so ever. The FLDS church chose to go their separate way from the LDS church over 100 years ago and started their own religion.
It would be like asking if the LDS church is going to comment on what the Pope says or does, or any other church for that matter.
This is about child abuse. It is against the law.
They are not connected in any way what so ever. The FLDS church chose to go their separate way from the LDS church over 100 years ago and started their own religion.
It would be like asking if the LDS church is going to comment on what the Pope says or does, or any other church for that matter.
This is about child abuse. It is against the law.
Where is the girl | 7:39 a.m. April 9, 2008
It may be a long time before the girl who made the phone call is identified.
Hopefully, she is among the children who have been rescued. She might just be too scared to come forward at this time because of the scorn and persecution she would face from her community.
Hopefully, she is among the children who have been rescued. She might just be too scared to come forward at this time because of the scorn and persecution she would face from her community.
Mahonri | 7:49 a.m. April 9, 2008
Hitlers people did similar things and those who watched did nothing about it.
Texas is just doing what Utah leaders wish they had done. Doesn't make it
right. The men held under house arrest. The kids taken from their families. All
because they are 'different' from the locals.
Where is the sheriff going to the group and investigating? A grandstand play that is only going to cost millions in litigation and leave a nasty lifelong impression on the kids who now know they are never safe... the cops can come and take them from their parents at any time for any reason or no reason at all.
Welcome to the new Jews of Germany in Texas.
Where is the sheriff going to the group and investigating? A grandstand play that is only going to cost millions in litigation and leave a nasty lifelong impression on the kids who now know they are never safe... the cops can come and take them from their parents at any time for any reason or no reason at all.
Welcome to the new Jews of Germany in Texas.
Chief | 7:52 a.m. April 9, 2008
While the conduct of the "Fundamentalists" is always very suspect this
wholesale breach of the police power should be highly suspect. Those who cheer
the state of Texas on should wonder, who is next?
Appalled... | 7:47 a.m. April 9, 2008
This article states, "We believe children at that ranch, if they were not
abused or neglected, they were certainly at risk." This is an absolutely
chilling statement that should send shock waves of horror to every parent in the
United States of America. Our government could make that statement about any or
all parents in the United States. We live in a world that is not risk free for
anyone. Is our government better able to take care of our children than parents
who love them. The yet unproven and vague accusations used in separating ALL
the children from their parents for their own 'good' is frightening!!!
Who can judge before having all the facts? Should an entire group of people be
categorized as child neglectors and molesters because of what one or a few
individuals do? I hope the judge over this mess rules with compassion for the
injustice which has occurred!
orion | 7:49 a.m. April 9, 2008
Texas did what Utah and Arizona should have had the courage to do years ago. The
abuses of young women forced to marry against their will at any age is an
outrage.
You MEN who are posturing on this forum against government interference have never felt the sting of slavery from another perspective. Shame on you.
You MEN who are posturing on this forum against government interference have never felt the sting of slavery from another perspective. Shame on you.
STOP this insanity | 8:05 a.m. April 9, 2008
If this phone call truly exsists, the state of Texas will produce evidence of
it. If it didn't exsist, but there are underaged teen girls pregnant and
"spiritually married" to 56 year old men... So be it... The raid
needed to happen.
The only point isn't only polygamy.. It doesn't matter if these girls are the 1st or 10th wife to a 56 year old. They are minors and deserve to be protected!!!
There are laws that are set in motion to protect ALL Children... Surely no human being can condone a 14-15 year old girl being "married" to a 56 year old man and having children...
Talk about babies having babies. I have given birth to 4 children. I was in my 20's; I can't imagine being 15 and doing so. SICK AND WRONG
The only point isn't only polygamy.. It doesn't matter if these girls are the 1st or 10th wife to a 56 year old. They are minors and deserve to be protected!!!
There are laws that are set in motion to protect ALL Children... Surely no human being can condone a 14-15 year old girl being "married" to a 56 year old man and having children...
Talk about babies having babies. I have given birth to 4 children. I was in my 20's; I can't imagine being 15 and doing so. SICK AND WRONG
Concerned parent | 8:04 a.m. April 9, 2008
I know a neighborhood in Washington D.C. where there is proven child abuse,
neglect, sexual abuse, and violent crime at a rate well above the national
average. In an area of about 20 city blocks, about 450 children reside and are
potentially exposed to these crimes. Wouldn't a warrant be appropriate to
remove all those children, investigate each parent individually, and
"counsel" the kids to consider foster care removed from this decrepit
situation?
Roy in Germany | 8:06 a.m. April 9, 2008
Whether we "real" Mormons like it or not, the Fundamentalist LDS
Church is a Mormon religion, just as the "Reorganized" Church and
other offshoots are.
We all share to a large extent a common pool of scriptures and beliefs not recognized by other faiths. We can hope that others will distinguish among the various Mormon groups but we can hardly expect them to conclude that they are not all "Mormon".
We all share to a large extent a common pool of scriptures and beliefs not recognized by other faiths. We can hope that others will distinguish among the various Mormon groups but we can hardly expect them to conclude that they are not all "Mormon".
ediddy | 8:08 a.m. April 9, 2008
I will likely take some flack for the following thoughts, but the situation in
Eldorado needs some ourside scrutiny. No abuse of the sort alleged in Texas
ought to be tolerated, but the facts (FACTS) of this operation have yet to be
verified. Reading from the AP this morning, allegations and insinuations were
sent to press without substantiation. An anonymous phone call has resulted in
the removal of 416 children from their homes. The 16 year old girl has not been
found. Emotions are running high, even from those of us not involved. What ought
to be of concern is the tendency to knee jerk react without sufficient probable
cause. There is an increasing erosion of the constitutional protection against
illegal search and siezure. Eminent domain abuses, wiretaps and investigative
profiling at a federal level, over aggressive means of interrogation are all
things that have been decried by many as intrusive and probably
unconstitutional, but where is the raised eyebrow in Eldorado Texas. Baptist
buses transporting 416 children? Inability to produce the informant? Overly
broad search warrant? A startling lack of post action verifiable evidence? I
only submit that because polygamy is unpopular, we might be turning a blind eye.
Raven | 8:16 a.m. April 9, 2008
The state of Texas appears to be overreaching. Time will tell. I do not approve
of marrying off underage girls. However, I'm puzzled by a society that
wants to "protect" these girls from "predators" while the
local schools teach "anything goes" when it comes to sex and the media
makes money off sexualizing anything and everything (especially the young).
Also, not all people who practice polygamy act like the FLDS. However, society
lumps all polygamists together and condemns them. All the while this same
society encourages pornography and sexual immorality of types and combinations.
All under the guise of "tolerance." We live in strange times.
Constitutional Rights | 8:25 a.m. April 9, 2008
We as a society need to condemn two things here. 1st, we need to condemn
unlawful sexual conduct. 2nd, we need to condemn unlawful search and seizure.
Does the state of Texas have probable cause to search and seize all 416
children? How can all of these individuals of the same religion be subjected to
police arrest and seizure of their children? If the government has probable
cause to enter my home because of reported domestic violence, then that is fine.
But what about my neighbor's home, or what about every home on my block?
What if the government decided that all Blacks, or all Japanese, or all Native
Americans in my town were suspected of the same domestic violence allegation.
Can the government come in and seize the children of all those individuals of
the same faith, or race or skin color in a given town?
Unfortunately, I fear we haven't learned the lessons of history about prejudice and fear. This kind of activity in our modern society is a disgrace, and should be condemned.
Unfortunately, I fear we haven't learned the lessons of history about prejudice and fear. This kind of activity in our modern society is a disgrace, and should be condemned.
ediddy | 8:33 a.m. April 9, 2008
Since the monitor here declined to print my earlier comment, I don't expect
this one to make it either. Simply said, where are the letters ACLU in this
situation? With due respect to needs for child protection, this whole affair
smacks of 4th amendment abuse. Where are you ACLU?? Showing your true colors as
usual.
Hey people, no hob nail boots at my door today, so back to American Idol.
Hey people, no hob nail boots at my door today, so back to American Idol.
Chemist | 8:28 a.m. April 9, 2008
If a girl of 14-16 years old is pregnant or has given birth a crime called
statutory rape has occured. At that point you protect the children and try to
find and prosecute the rapist as well as any who aided and abeted in the rape.
Hats off to Texas from a Hoosier.
Not going after polygamy | 8:39 a.m. April 9, 2008
It's noteworthy that the Texas authorities are not going after polygamy
directly, but are focusing their efforts on apparently rampant child abuse.
Polygamy is a difficult crime to prosecute because it is a difficult crime to prove. What constitutes an additional "marriage"? The couple's say-so? A religious ceremony, not condoned by the state? People participate in adulterous relationships all the time, occasionally with the knowledge and blessing of the other spouse - how is polygamy any different, so long as consenting adults are the only ones involved? Prosecutions are difficult, and convictions from a jury are likely harder. But sexual abuse cases like these are much easier to prove, much more heinous to society, and much more important.
Texas isn't targeting polygamy directly any more than Utah has - it's targeting child abuse.
Polygamy is a difficult crime to prosecute because it is a difficult crime to prove. What constitutes an additional "marriage"? The couple's say-so? A religious ceremony, not condoned by the state? People participate in adulterous relationships all the time, occasionally with the knowledge and blessing of the other spouse - how is polygamy any different, so long as consenting adults are the only ones involved? Prosecutions are difficult, and convictions from a jury are likely harder. But sexual abuse cases like these are much easier to prove, much more heinous to society, and much more important.
Texas isn't targeting polygamy directly any more than Utah has - it's targeting child abuse.
Texan | 8:42 a.m. April 9, 2008
How can people on this board say the issue is with polygamy? Authorities in the
area have known for YEARS that they were polygamists and left them alone. On
April 28, 2004, they told the community that yes they were polygamists. Thats
not why CPS and Texas police went in there. Warren Jeffs, the
"prophet" for this group, has been convicted of forcing a 14 year old
girl to marry her 19 year old cousin. Other former FLDS members have talked that
it is common practice for underage girls to marry older men. Is Carrol Jessop
lying? How about Sara Hammon? This group has a blatent history of it.
Excommunicating boys just because there aren't enough women is a bad
enviornment. Yes, ALL of the children in the community are in danger when they
can be "reassigned" to another man. This is disgusting and anyone
defending them should be disgusted with themselves.
Anonymous | 8:51 a.m. April 9, 2008
Think of how much money Texas is saving us.
Hello???? | 8:45 a.m. April 9, 2008
How many people out there are actually using ANY common sense?
The information regarding the phone call, whether factual or not, is irrelevant at this point. The REAL facts are obvious, i.e. real, live children pregnant - and brainwashed into believing it is normal (regardless of being male or female) at their young age - by sick, old and abusive males.
Also, what does religion have to do with any of this? IT IS WRONG!!! Let's not pretend that this garbage doesn't happen everywhere, be it by adults in positions of authority (teacher/student)or relations (parent or uncle/child). However, when it does, the adults are punished by law! Once again, RELIGION IS IRRELEVANT!!! Otherwise, all sickos everywhere would use this excuse. Would our society tolerate, for even a minute, excuses such as, "This is the style of teaching that I believe works." or "This is how I believe MY daughter should be raised."?????
Wake up! Think it through!!! The only unfortunate situation here is that it took so long for this to happen!!!
I wholeheartily agree that the government sticks there nose where it doesn't belong sometimes, but GET REAL! This was absolutely necessary!!!!
The information regarding the phone call, whether factual or not, is irrelevant at this point. The REAL facts are obvious, i.e. real, live children pregnant - and brainwashed into believing it is normal (regardless of being male or female) at their young age - by sick, old and abusive males.
Also, what does religion have to do with any of this? IT IS WRONG!!! Let's not pretend that this garbage doesn't happen everywhere, be it by adults in positions of authority (teacher/student)or relations (parent or uncle/child). However, when it does, the adults are punished by law! Once again, RELIGION IS IRRELEVANT!!! Otherwise, all sickos everywhere would use this excuse. Would our society tolerate, for even a minute, excuses such as, "This is the style of teaching that I believe works." or "This is how I believe MY daughter should be raised."?????
Wake up! Think it through!!! The only unfortunate situation here is that it took so long for this to happen!!!
I wholeheartily agree that the government sticks there nose where it doesn't belong sometimes, but GET REAL! This was absolutely necessary!!!!
Frank | 8:52 a.m. April 9, 2008
"ediddy" and "Raven" have some points. What is just and
right in the world largely depends on what is popular. I'm not trying to
defend the FLDS or poligamy. I'm not saying that the quick intervention
and siezure wasn't a good thing, I think it was! But the popularity of the
idea of grabbing children away from people who we imagine to practice our own
darkest thoughts and desires concerning poligamy definitly made it easier for us
to swallow the possibility of the cops cutting corners.
I'm glad some children got away from a horrid situation, glad some child had the courage to call. Sad some children lost their parents.
Sad that after only 5 minutes of thought on this situation most americans will turn back to their copy of Transformers or any other film that eforces to us adults that 17 year olds are sexual objects too.
I'm glad some children got away from a horrid situation, glad some child had the courage to call. Sad some children lost their parents.
Sad that after only 5 minutes of thought on this situation most americans will turn back to their copy of Transformers or any other film that eforces to us adults that 17 year olds are sexual objects too.
Larry | 8:47 a.m. April 9, 2008
What is the big deal with the Baptist busses?
911 | 8:55 a.m. April 9, 2008
Whether the call came from inside or outside the YFZ compound, whether it was
anonymous or not, once Texas authorities received the call, they were obligated
to investigate.
Anyone who says otherwise is not being honest or realistic. Police investigate thousands of anonymous calls every day from traffic accidents to house fires to burglaries in progress to reports of child abuse in a single-family home.
If, in the course of those investigations, the police uncover evidence of other illegal activites, they are obligated to investigate those activities as well.
The only difference with this case and any other case is the size of the investigation. When the authorities uncovered evidence of child abuse at the YFZ compound, they were obligated to remove EVERY child who was potentially at risk until the state could determine that it was safe for the children to be returned to their families.
Removing abused children from their homes happens daily across the United States. It doesn't matter if it is 1 child or 416 children, EVERY child has a right to be protected from being abused in their own home.
Anyone who says otherwise is not being honest or realistic. Police investigate thousands of anonymous calls every day from traffic accidents to house fires to burglaries in progress to reports of child abuse in a single-family home.
If, in the course of those investigations, the police uncover evidence of other illegal activites, they are obligated to investigate those activities as well.
The only difference with this case and any other case is the size of the investigation. When the authorities uncovered evidence of child abuse at the YFZ compound, they were obligated to remove EVERY child who was potentially at risk until the state could determine that it was safe for the children to be returned to their families.
Removing abused children from their homes happens daily across the United States. It doesn't matter if it is 1 child or 416 children, EVERY child has a right to be protected from being abused in their own home.
Evidence enough | 8:59 a.m. April 9, 2008
"During the search of the ranch, investigators observed a number of young
girls who appeared to be pregnant as well as several teen girls who had already
given birth. Investigators said there was a "widespread pattern and
practice" at the ranch in which young females are "conditioned to
expect and accept sexual activity with adult men at the ranch upon being
spiritually married to them.""
What more evidence is needed to warrant removing these children? In my opinion, this alone is enough to prove that the children are in danger! I suspect that through questioning the children, there will be even MORE evidence come to light that hasn't been released to the press as yet.
IF there is abuse going on at all with underage
children (male and/or female), they have to remove EVERY child from that home, no matter what the age. It�s just protocol for obvious reasons. If a
man is accused of sexually/ physically abusing a child in his home, he cannot live in a home with ANY children, whether they are male or female. Where these men have so many wives & children and access to so many homes, it would be insane to do otherwise.
What more evidence is needed to warrant removing these children? In my opinion, this alone is enough to prove that the children are in danger! I suspect that through questioning the children, there will be even MORE evidence come to light that hasn't been released to the press as yet.
IF there is abuse going on at all with underage
children (male and/or female), they have to remove EVERY child from that home, no matter what the age. It�s just protocol for obvious reasons. If a
man is accused of sexually/ physically abusing a child in his home, he cannot live in a home with ANY children, whether they are male or female. Where these men have so many wives & children and access to so many homes, it would be insane to do otherwise.
How This Will Turn Out... | 8:54 a.m. April 9, 2008
I suspect that it will be found that there was no 16 year old girl with cracked
ribs, a baby, and another baby on the way. I suspect the call was made by
someone who wants the polygs gone and knew that tensions were high enough that
this kind of response would be made. I can't feel too much compassion for
the FLDS since they've been thumbing their noses at the law for a long,
long time. And what were they thinking moving to Texas?? I guess they
didn't realize that the Evangelical "Christians" can't
stand Mormons... why did they think they would stomach polygamy-practicing
ex-mormons? I do think the whole thing was a huge over-reaction based on
ignorance and fear. Prosecute the pedophiles, but leave the consenting adults to
live they way they want.
Motives debateable | 9:01 a.m. April 9, 2008
The motivation for this raid just seems fishy to me. It seems odd that on
Wednesday Texas was doing "NOTHING" about these abuses they claim they
knew all about, then all it took was 1 unsubstantiated phone-call to push their
response from "Nothing" to "Every kid in town must go". It
just seems like a huge leap to me.
If the alleged abuses are actual and not just rumors they should be addressed, but on a case by case basis, not the blanket, "Everyone in this town looses their kids because we got a phone call.
By now they should have some evidence they can share with the public to support this apparent knee-jerk over-reaction to one abuse report.
With the level of detail in the "disturbing court affidavit" (interestingly released to the media instead of being used in court) went on for pages... They got all this information from the girl, but forgot to ask where they could find her, her name, any info they could use to find her when they raided the compound?
Sounds like a messed up opperation to me... going in military-style, not knowing where your victim is and just takingkilling all the kids (ala-Waco)
If the alleged abuses are actual and not just rumors they should be addressed, but on a case by case basis, not the blanket, "Everyone in this town looses their kids because we got a phone call.
By now they should have some evidence they can share with the public to support this apparent knee-jerk over-reaction to one abuse report.
With the level of detail in the "disturbing court affidavit" (interestingly released to the media instead of being used in court) went on for pages... They got all this information from the girl, but forgot to ask where they could find her, her name, any info they could use to find her when they raided the compound?
Sounds like a messed up opperation to me... going in military-style, not knowing where your victim is and just takingkilling all the kids (ala-Waco)
Cycle needs to end | 9:01 a.m. April 9, 2008
There is a very vicious cycle going on in that society - engaging in abusive
practices and seeking to isolate themselves more and more to avoid the
consequences.
It is hard to see how this cycle can be broken without some sort of shock to the system.
This is going to be a sad and ugly shock, but there doesn't seem to be a better option.
There is also a set of victims that goes unmentioned in these articles - the hundreds of "lost boys" who are ejected from this society onto the streets of St. George and other cities to fend for themselves without family or support.
It is hard to see how this cycle can be broken without some sort of shock to the system.
This is going to be a sad and ugly shock, but there doesn't seem to be a better option.
There is also a set of victims that goes unmentioned in these articles - the hundreds of "lost boys" who are ejected from this society onto the streets of St. George and other cities to fend for themselves without family or support.
Re: Concerned parent | 9:12 a.m. April 9, 2008
Your scenario is fundamentally different:
In your neighborhood, the children aren't living in an enclosed compound where no one is free to leave whenever they want.
In your neighborhood, the adults aren't forcing arranged "marriages" upon the underage children.
In your neighborhood, the entire community isn't controlled by a small group of men who decide how everything in the community from schools to medical facilities to families will be run.
In your neighborhood, the children aren't living in an enclosed compound where no one is free to leave whenever they want.
In your neighborhood, the adults aren't forcing arranged "marriages" upon the underage children.
In your neighborhood, the entire community isn't controlled by a small group of men who decide how everything in the community from schools to medical facilities to families will be run.
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