Comments about ‘About Utah: Texas raid violating U.S. rights’

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Published: Wednesday, April 9 2008 1:04 a.m. MDT

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thetruth

What is wrong with you? There should be no gentle way in removing a person who's been abused and repeatedly asked for help immediately from the situation. It must be great to talk from a position of power. I think you would feel differently if you had been abused yourself.

Timo

Come on, Lee, understand the law before you write about it:

"No one should be denied due process, be subjected to unreasonable searches and seizures, or be denied freedom of religion."

The Texas police are very much granting due process. This case has gone before a judge multiple times already. The child protection agency is also making its own determinations - agency determinations are also a part of due process.

This is not an unreasonable search and seizure. The warrant likely gave the police access to the whole compound to find the 16 year old. Anything in plain view that is criminal necessarily falls under the warrant. Plenty of that going on.

Freedom of religion? Protecting child abuse with this moniker is like smoking peyote for religious purposes. Garbage.

Texas is right on the money.

Can't figure this out

I agree that sex with minors is wrong but these public health officials are the same ones who usually advocate giving condoms and birth control to teens at Jr. High and High School with a parent's consent, present graphic sexual education in schools and advocate a teen's "sexual rights." They also sometimes set up nurseries for out of wedlock babies in High Schools at taxpayer expense. I guess its out for minors to have sexual relations as long as the Gov't is sponsoring the activity. If some religious group advocates similar behavior then everyone goes to jail.

us constitution

though I thoroughly disagree with their philosophy...considering the circumstances, I believe the raids on the ranch is beyond that state's authority, considering the circumstance...

they took some random phone call, not independently confirmed, and proceeded to violate their (the FDLS) rights

I don't mean to say that I agree with them....however, the methods by which they try to take control....will eventually not stand up in trail....given the crazy unsubststantiatied claims of that so-called minor wife of that 50 yr old man that turns out to be from Colorado City, AZ

Rockford

Good assessment. The wave of outrage is building behind this kidnapping of children. This is akin to the roundups of Jews in pre-war Germany. Whether there is individual proof of child abuse or not - just round 'em up and separate parents from children.

I've heard the stuttered excuses by the woman who is defending these actions but so far - there is no evidence that the fathers who wait behind, in the compound, are guilty of anything except belonging to a cloistered group based on religion.

Who is next? The Amish?

Concern for the Children

There has been plenty of documentation of Child abuse and spousal abuse, by FLDS members. I had some poligamist ancestors and they never pulled the kind of abuses that modern FLDS members are acused of practicing.

The Constitution has never supported criminal abuses of men against women and children because the Constitution supports the rights of children and women.


mike

Picture this. The government walked right into this compound and removed over 400 citizens from their homes and have basically detained them in one place or another.

Not a shot was fired!!!

What's to stop the government from walking into any sub-division in America and removing residents by a claim of Abuse upon a child by several residents of a community.

Gutless/stupid americans should be outraged by this abuse of power.

russ

Texas has more courage than Utah, that's for sure. They actually believe that the state, e.g. society, has to watch out for the children. So they get a call, and they have to check it out (imagine the case if they did not check it out... oh my!!!).

We have laws in our society to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Criminals cannot hide behind the cloak of religion. Imagine if the group had blood rites. Would we let them kill the young? Please.

I am proud that someone somewhere had the guts to stand up to this garbage and see if the children were in harm's way.

Learn

The facts are polygamy in Utah started with the Mormons but polygamy itself started in biblical times!

Warrantless

The original warrant allowed a search for the original 16 year old complaining girl. She has yet to be found.

Instead of asking questions about the 16 year old girl, over 500 people have been interrogated about their own lives. We now hear reports that many of the children, teenagers, and adult women are refusing to cooperate and will not answer the interrogations.

So, what is the State of Texas to do now? Beat answers out of them?

It is simply an outright lie to say the 130 women VOLUNTARILY left the compound. Their choice was to abandon their own children into a corrupt foster care system where their children are also subject to rape and mind-control of paid CPS crusaders, or accompany their children to protect them. Some choice Amerika!

Jake

This is crazy! Yes abuse is horrible! But the rights that Texas broke, are rediculous! I can imagine, some "anonymous caller calling in and saying that someone is my house was committing an extremely illiegal act. They bust in the house on a warrent to see if there is abuse with the proported subject. They do not even find the suspect in the house, so they take the wife and other kids to interrogate, while keeping me and my, now jail-house, in Hernderson, NV! Wake-up America!

1953 again

Thank you Mr Benson for your reasoned opinion. It is an outrage that it is OK to take away civil rights of all these people at the YFZ because they are an unpopular group. Polygamists are truly one of the one last groups of people that it is ok to dicriminate against. This is an over reach. Why could they not investigate this allegation in the manner they investigate all other allegations of abuse? Because they have been "taught" by OFFICIALS and people that are such experts from Utah. They have taught them all the "out there" rhetoric to use in press briefings and filings.

Just a Spectator

Watching the reports coming out of Texas, as this thing grows and grows and grows... I keep remembering the Eduard Delecroix execution scene in "The Green Mile", which went from bad to worse to horrific. But, as guard Paul Edgecomb pointed out in the movie, once they were into it there was nothing they could do but push forward and see it through. In the movie, the execution was deemed necessary by the laws of our civil society. In Texas, it is the same. The abuse has to stop, and this shake-up is necessary, however painful it may be to the people involved; however hard it is to watch for those of us on the outside. It's gone too far now to stop until the job is done.

Who is next.

The more I learn about this raid the more concerned I am. How can the Government based on one person making a call that is starting to appear to have been a false statement raid a whole community and tear families apart. The media is trying to make it seem like the women in the camp left because they were freed. This is not the case they left thier homes in what might be a vain attempt to keep their children.

A Voice of Reason

Calm Down everyone!
1. In order to find the girl, it was necessary to remove anyone who could have been her. We DO NOT know yet whether she has been found or not, so stop making claims!

2. People did not cooperate in giving names, birthdates, etc. Names were changed. Some have the same names. Officials had to find a way to to determine who the young girl is. I can really understand why it was necessary to remove everyone. Sometimes they have to take a number of people in for questioning to get to the heart of the matter.

3. When there are allegations of child abuse, all other children are almost always removed from a home. This compound is one LARGE home.

4. What makes you THINK that the mothers did not go voluntarily? Officials were very kind to allow it.

5. They didn't STORM the temple, but they did justifiably insist on going in; apparently they found people hiding there. All LDS temples allow government officials in to check on things too! (I was a temple worker.) They come in to do fire inspections, etc.

Before making accusations, lets wait to see what the END results are.

mike is right

What's to keep the State of Texas or Utah or any other state from pre-emptively removing Jehovah's Witnesses' kids from their homes because their parents refuse to give them blood transfusions, and thus put them at higher risk for death after injury?

Or pre-emptively removing children because their parents don't believe in vaccinations, and thus put them at higher risk for disease?

Or perhaps pre-emptively removing children from their homes because their parents own guns, and in the opinion of a overzealous child protection bureaucrat that puts them at an unacceptable risk for injury?

Heck, what's to prevent them from taking the kids from parents who smoke? Or drink? Or smoke an occasional doobie? Or serve them fatty foods?

All of these hypothetical situations are based on the same logic used by the officials in Texas: Because something bad MIGHT happen to some children, they are justified in seizing every child, parental rights be damned.

Missy

Seriously, Lee. Is this a contrarian opinion simply to gain readers? Because you seem to have a devoted audience and shouldn't need to stoop to hack tricks to attract anyone. Starting this column with a sports metaphor? Hahaha. I guess even child rape can be reduced to a football analogy. And then, the moldly old joke about "it's hard enough to have one wife. Why would a man want more than one?"

Lazy writing, lazy intellect. The FLDS sect has proven time and again--right under our Utah noses, especially--that it supports female slavery, child rape and physical abuse.

It simply took the guts of Texas to prove what can be done when a state begins to look seriously at issues like this. Wish you could have done the same with your writing.

Texas knew

1. who the husband was.
2. the 'number' wife she was (7th?)
3. the age of the girl
4. that she had a 8 month old and was expcting a second child.

You need 400 plus to find this kid? Duh.

child abuse is bad. Very bad. It should be delt with in a legal manner. But all children are not abused in a polygamous family, just as all kids in a two parent, gay parent whatever parent family are not abused.

I have seen plenty of 13-16 yr olds expecting babies. They may not be polygamous wives, but they still were execting. Quick! Raid the Jr High schools and remove all thekids, as one is pregnant.

JakeT

To "a voice of reason": No, lets not wait for the end result. Because in America, the ends don't justify the means. Patriots shed blood so that every citizen, (even the ones the media has told us not to like), are protected from this kind of tyrannical behavior. This community was not a single household. That is absurd! That just lumps all these individual American citizens into one hive-like mass, and therefore de-humanizes them...to make their persecution more palatable.

Dutchman

Go check out the movie "Judgment at Nuremberg" starring Spencer Tracy, Burt Lancaster, Richard Widmark, Marlene Dietrich, Maximilian Schell, Judy Garland, Montgomery Clift, Ed Binns, Werner Klemperer. See how we as Americans put Germans on trial after World War II for raids and government abuses and wondered how the German people could allow the raids and abuses to happen. It is scary. Absolutely children need protection but how can one phone call lead to the encampment of so many people?


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