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Dialogue will be unprecedented move for church

Published: Monday, April 7 2008 12:00 a.m. MDT

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God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference!!!


I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive but of you it is required that you forgive ALL men.



Radical to the Max!

I'm glad they're meeting. We can believe what we believe, but I hope we can always at least sit down and talk. Not that policies need to change. But, it's cool the church will at least meet with them. And not that the Lord needs any PR, but these sorts of measures are very good for showing people that we are reasonable. That is, that we'll listen to what people want before we tell them that we won't give them what they want. Yes. I think it's a VERY positive thing. Meeting and talking doesn't threaten anyone.


I wasn't born with homesexual tendencies, but I was born with tendencies to be selfish. When I turned 19, I wanted to hang out with friends in college and do what I wanted to do, what was fun for me... I didn't want to go on a mission and serve others, but it was a commandment from the Lord. I did what was asked of me, and I learned to overcome my selfish desires and learned to love serving others.

People born with homosexual tendencies need to do the same... If you'd rather be dating/holding hands/kissing/having sexual relationships with members of the same gender, doing what is "fun" for you, then you need to look at the commandment and follow it. It may be tough at first to step away from the "tendencies you were born with," but you may learn to love having heterosexual relationships as the Lord commanded, just as I learned to put off my selfish tendencies and learned to love others.

Affirmation doesn't necessarily need to have a talk with Church Leaders, they just need to read the scriptures and do what is commanded of the Lord, just as church leaders will ask them to do.


I was surprized to see a meeting set by the church and gays, but I think it is a good thing. I dont think either side expects more than to understand each other more and to help people act with more understanding toward each other. That is a good goal in every kind of interaction between people.

Since depression and suicide is a very big issue in both the gay community and in Utah, perhaps more understanding can help some folks to feel life is worth living. You can't expect people to be interested in church if they aren't interested in living and seeking love and happiness in a life.

The Plan of Eternal Happiness is not always the same for everyone, just as people seek different walks and callings in life. Life would be strange if everyone wanted the same occupation, the same styles, or the same color home or car.

That would look too much like Pleasantville for me. Too black and white for me.

I think a narrow way of living is why half of the church members are inactive. They decide to live life their own way. To each their own. Peace, Joy, Love. WWJD. :)


My sister can't get a temple recommend because she doesn't pay tithing. She struggles with it. She goes on shopping sprees without paying her tithing first, or her bills or anything else. It's a problem that needs fixed, and she understands that and accepts the fact that she can't have a temple recommend. It is very hard for her, but she knows she needs to change, and she doesn't join a group of other non-tithe-payers to complain to the church about her problems with keeping the commandments. Homosexuals should do the same. They need to stop looking for ways to justify their sins. It isn't something biological. "...and putteth off the natural man, and becometh a saint." We all have our weaknesses, but that is the purpose and goal of the Gospel. To help us put off the natural man, overcome those weaknesses, and find true, lasting happiness through keeping the commandments. Affirmation should be giving a plea for help to obey the commandments, not asking for changes in the honor code. "I the Lord am bound when ye do what I say." Overcome your homosexual weakness, and you will be blessed for it. Pray, and the Lord will help.


RE: Tithing
good points made about tithing and homosexuality, but I don't think you or anyone knows whether homosexuality is natural or unnatural. The only people who really can give the best insight are people who are. I don't think you know what you know because it's fact. You know what you know because it has been taught to you, and it says it in some book that you believe in and place your emotions upon. You and others "know" so many things not because you can prove them to be factual, but because you "feel" that it is right. While what you feel is enlightening and great for discussion please understand the context of your position.
I dont have a problem with knowing that Im a sinner for being homosexual. In fact that is not the reason why I stopped going to church when I was 16. The reason why I stopped going to church was because all my friends and people I knew my whole life refused to associate with me because of my particular "sin". Then the prophet wants to sit and ask for those of us who have left to come back?
once bitten twice shy


I've formed a group just like Affirmation which I've named Adulteration. I'm going to demand to meet with Church officials so that I can try to convince them that my adultery (that is, sex outside of marriage) should be recognized, tolerated, accepted, etc. and that the Church should no longer call my behavior wrong nor ostracize people like me just because we define myself by my sexual proclivities and just because we can't obey the Commandments. Adulteration will stand in solidarity with groups like Affirmation and if a group of fornicators down at BYU can get themselves organized, then we'll stand with them too and try to get the BYU Honor Code changed on their behalf. What a wonderful idea Affirmation has had - let's change the Church instead of changing our own immoral behavior.


To: Eastern LDS

Just because you know of a 2nd hand story of a gay man getting married doesn't make you an expert on the topic. I can assure you that being gay is not a behavioral choice.

Get off it !!

it is just a meeting ..it's America...I'm sure the brethren know what they are doing...while the others of you ...cluck, cluck around.


I am glad the church is meeting with affirmation and I am also glad that the church won't budge on doctrines regarding homosexuality either. I hope the church representatives tell them that they won't budge.


I was faithful to the church until I felt that I was no longer safe attending church. I was faithful to the church until I felt that the members were more concerned about themselves than others.

I know Dave and Olin, we have discussed the letter in the local DC chapter of Affirmation. All this meeting is for is to begin an understanding, not to change the doctrine but in how people are treated.

Please don't accuse me of being selfish, it is not selfish to want to feel secure at church. It is not selfish to be willing to help one another. I have helped others when I really didn't have the means to without repayment. I have stepped in and helped when I could afford to. I have done that which the Savior has taught, to love one another.

I hope that something comes out of it, at least some understanding, but I expect nothing. I have learned the hard way to expect nothing whether from friends or family. I only hope that Heavenly Father will help me in times of despair, otherwise I am alone, I have nothing other than myself.

Tithing and Homosexuality?

Goodness! I don't pay "tithing" per say, but I help wherever I feel inclined (and whenever I can afford it). I don't pay to orgainizations that will use the money to build buildings because I don't think that is needed as much as other things. Regarding my gay friends: They are just like you and I in many ways. Imagine the way you were born didn't allow you to marry the person you loved. And that being attracted to them was "sinful". Your comparisons do not compare. Think the way you want, but you must give other people their right to be who they are and show them respect. It is good they are meeting with your religious group to help give them this respect.

Re: Tithing and Homosexuality

In the LDS church, they believe tithing is a commandment, as well as the law of chastity, which prohibits homosexuality. Some people are probably born being obsessive with their money and not wanting to donate ten percent of it anywhere, just as some people are born with same gender attractions. The fact of the matter is, in the LDS church, they are both commandments... If you want to be considered in good standing with the church, obey those commandments. They do compare. Everyone is born with weaknesses. Most homosexuals just like to play the poor pitty party picked on me game... I have a couple of good friends who struggle with homosexuality. They know they are in the wrong though, and they are trying to overcome it. They think the whole Affirmation thing is rediculous... Maybe they should have a talk with Affirmation. If other homosexuals told them to change and try to overcome their problems rather than ask to be accepted, do you think it would do any good?


I guess "hogwash" is too harsh a word for the DesNews censors....

Why Worry??

Why should I worry about what God thinks about my being gay??? It would seem that the people on this blog are smarter and more righteous and dare I say without sin enough to pass judgement on me and the rest of the gay community. Why should I worry about anything since the people on the DMN website have all the answers to pass a fair and honest judgement. I feel so much better knowing that while the Lord might know the true nature of my heart, my fellow man is better qualified to pass judgement based on their "cherry picking" of scripture. Now that they have taken care of the gay problem, maybe they will start taking care of the next offender of the world. Look out anyone who's played football, the scripture about touching the skin of a pig could be the next "cherry" to be picked.

Re: Kevin 4:30 pm

Moral character is not "defamed" by the Church, it is "defamed" by your actions.


If everyone read the Book of Mormon, there would be a lot less misunderstanding, all throughout the Book it says we all have fallen, we all are lost, we have done regretable things, we have no merit, we have no excuses, the law condemns us all; our very own book says we have all fallen short, but there is hope if we can keep busy on worthwhile things and keep life simple and clean and full of life. Sin makes us dumb; yet we have a right to be dumb, except that when we are dumb we have less opportunities in life.

Better Brain Game

@ Brain Game

ACTING on homosexual desires is the sin. If someone has those desires but refuses to act on them and keeps all the commandments, why refuse them a temple recommend?

You see, it is acting on the sin, if a teenager has had the thoughts of drinking in high school but has the strength to say no, he is still worthy to participate in various church activities including the temple. Same is true with homosexual desires.

@ Lesbian Mormon,

By all means come to church and yes, it is the members duty to accept you as a child of god. However, knowing what you know about the church, if you flaunt your lifestyle, don't be surprised if people treat you differently. If you are currently not acting on desires or flaunting the lifestyle than it is nobody's business what your struggles are. I'm married and see pretty women all the time and thoughts can creep in, but I don't act and I don't need to share with others at church. Seek the help and counceling you need to help overcome your desires and by all means, come back to church. I know it helps me.

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