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Dialogue will be unprecedented move for church

Published: Monday, April 7 2008 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Jon B. Holbrook

President Monson has stated that he wants to welcome disaffected members back into the fold. I agree with his efforts and goodwill. However, homosexual Mormons have to realize that the Lord has one universal standard when it comes to marriage and morality: Complete chastity before marriage, complete fidelity after marriage and marriage is a covenant relationship between God, a man, and a woman. NO EXCEPTIONS! The gay-rights movement wants special, extra-Constitutional rights which is in reality, reverse discrimination towards everybody else. You don't get rid of discrimination with more discrimination, even if it is sanctioned by the government. Thank-you


@ Darthlaurie,

"Eat drink and be marry for tomorrow we die..."


Well, good luck to Affirmation. I know some of these guys. I don't know why they stick with this church... or any church that defames their moral character for that matter. That is something I will never understand. But they've been asking for this meeting for, what, 30 years? So good luck.


To Sparkes22:

Don't confuse the scriptural definition of "liberal" with your political views. They are not remotely related.

To all those who have quoted the Savior in arguing that he would accept homosexuals, remember that to the adulterous woman he replied, "Go, and sin no more." He did not say, "Go, and be yourself." Yes, he was accepting and understanding, but he expected (and commanded) change.

All of us are required to "put off the natural man," regardless of what that nature may be. To assume that you don't have to change is to deny the power of the Atonement. Affirmation can sit down with representatives of the church all day, but the plan of salvation (which is eternal and unchanging) will not be different in 5, 10, 20, or 1000 years. What will change is the person who applies the Savior's sacrifice in his/her life. And that's what everyone needs.

Baton Rouge

"Open Discussion," If you have served in these important capacities in the church, you should know better than to use previous church callings as a false veil of authority. Please treat the responsibilities you have held with respect and refrain from using them to attempt to legitimize your opinions.


I'm quite sure that part of the reason Pres. Monson is asking members to be more respectful and tolerant of other's views is because that is the way the Savior would have us act. After reading many of these posts, it becomes very obvious that there is a large amount arrogance amongst the membership. Many feel as though they know all there is to know and that is that. Well, come judgement day, we may have to whimper to the Almighty that we "though" we knew the gospel. "Judge not that ye be not judged," is very wise counsel. Let things take their course and don't be so darned belligerent.


What I cannot understand is the sheer disapproval of people who are different. Elder Wirthlin taught us that we need to love and understand those who are different. I can tell you from honest personal experience that NO ONE "chooses" to be a homosexual. It is not that simple. Gays and lesbians are incredibly alone in the Church. In they're entire lives they have to secretly cover their true feelings that God gave to them. And why? Because of hateful bigots in the Church. Having Affirmation speak to a Church official will be an incredible step in helping homosexual and heterosexual members of the church to come to a more full understanding. Consider yourselves lucky you have not "succumbed" to this temptation. That notion is totally ridiculous.


There have been a lot of alleged "misunderstandings" and "accusations" on these posts. What does this group expect to happen? Do they want the church to give better counceling on how to overcome their SGA? Or do they want complete acceptance and the church to say that it's normal? What do they want and what do they expect? No doubt as members of the church we need to welcome all to meetings and ward functions but to what extent do they want the church to help or do for that matter?

It seems that all gay rights groups want their lifestyle accepted. This being said, it's no wonder why we have gotten some of the posts we've gotten and doesn't really mean we "hate." Love can be shown through disapproval, a child drinking underage comes to mind. We disaprove of the "lifestyle" not the person. God will judge according to anyones "actions" whether heterosexual or homosexual and the church will not hedge on this point.

I dont think so...

"Society is changing | 1:10 p.m. Apr. 7, 2008
How is this any different than the way the Church used to look at mixed marriages? Society changed and the Church changed. Society is once again changing, better get used to the idea that the Church could also change, too.

Of course, not for at least another 20 years, so we should have time to adjust.

Talking" is simply the first step."

You must be living in lala land to even think "that the church could also change, too. Speaking about "mixed marriages", I have lots of friends who are mixed marriages but they are man and woman couples too with "traditional family" beliefs. Society may be changing according to some people, but the Church doctrines won't change at all cost.

Sam Nielson

Just to remind everyone about what President Monson said yesterday, "The world in which we live is filled with diversity. We can and should demonstrate respect toward those whose beliefs differ from ours." True, we respect those whose beliefs differ from ours, including beliefs about sexuality.

This meeting is probably an effort to show respect to those who choose the homosexual lifestyle. At the same time, those living that lifestyle (or finding it acceptable) should be able to respect the church for its rejection of such a lifestyle and not call on the church to change. Accept that the church will not change its position and get over it. For those living the gay lifestyle, if you never want to change, so be it. We can respect you and you can respect us.

Finally, all should remember what President Monson said in General Priesthood meeting on Saturday, "The face of sin today often wears the Halloween mask of tolerance. Do not be deceived; behind that facade is heartache, unhappiness and pain. You know what is right and what is wrong, and no disguise, however appealing, can change that."

Homosexuality is sin. Nothing will change that. Affirmation, accept it.


my only question is this: Why do people (and this is only one example but this is a common problem) seek to be part of an organization that has rules, guidelines, requirements, etc. that are counter to their own? I am terribly confused by that aspect of this. Would I try to join a Raiders fan club if my goal is to support the Chargers? Isn't a good share of the grief caused here avoidable if I don't try to be something I am not?


One can't have his sins and his covenants too!


I shudder when I see attempts to "lobby" a change in doctrine.

Gobo Fraggle

black people holding the priesthood was always within the overall doctrine of the plan of salvation as taught by the church. So was plural marriage. Homosexuality is a direct attack on our commandment to multiply and replenish the earth, thus frustrating the designs of God. Black people with the priesthood only helps accomplish the designs of God and proves his love for all of his children.


Well Said. I get SO sick of the double standard of the Gay and Lesbian Community. Because I recognize that your homosexuality is wrong does not make me homophobic or intolerant. Because I don't pretend I don't care and I don't open my arms and hug you "even though you are gay" doesn't make me intolerant. Facts are facts. Any REAL Christian realizes that Homosexuality is not only wrong but it is a choice and it is a SIN. No sugar coating it. So don't play the "homophobic" or "intolerance" card because you need to try and justify your choices. God will be the judge, not me, but that doesn't mean I cannot call you on the carpet for a SIN! As Simon Cowell would say "Sorry"!

Good, But

I sure don't hope they think they can convince the Church to accept homosexual couples and relationships.

St Balthasar

It is sad that people - LDSaints or not - need to be reminded to be loving and tolerant, even of those whose lifestyles we don't agree with. I don't believe that any doctrine or even policies will actually be changed because of this upcoming dialogue; however, it seems exemplary to me that the Prophet has agreed for LDS officials to meet with Affirmation.

If we can eliminate (or at least greatly reduce) severe depression, suicide, the break up of families and increase our capacity to be loving, then I am all for such dialogue.

Some may fear the slippery slope of intolerance --> tolerance --> accepance --> embrace --> promotion (of that which was previously intolerable); that progression is not inevitable. As for me, I agree with my understanding of the Savior's teachings: Love all (that is not the same is: promote all sinfulness).

PS to those who feel that quoting scriptue or expressing understanding of doctrine is somehow presuming to "speak for the Lord" - it is not; I invite such to be less critical. This issue is sensitive no matter what "side" of it one is on.

Texas Lady

I hope the church stands firm in it's requirements for all members.

If they change it will be just another church.

Bayou Vol

Very few posters on this blog have mentioned anything regarding hate of the person or an unwillingness to love and understand the person. Posters have, however, emphatically declared their understanding of the plan of our H.F. and their loathing of the sin of homosexuality, regardless of the difficulty in overcoming it.


I hope that every day members can take this to heart and be more kind and understanding to homosexual members. I know the DN had a great article in one that is a celibate Homosexual.

The BYU stuff,though, will never happen.

This dialogue has been needed for a while. I hope the homosexual members complain about meredian magazine, that spreads some horrible hatred at homosexual members.

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