Deseret News | LDS officials to meet with gay group

Reader comments
LDS officials to meet with gay group

309 comments | Read story

Jon B. Holbrook | 4:24 p.m. April 7, 2008

President Monson has stated that he wants to welcome disaffected members back into the fold. I agree with his efforts and goodwill. However, homosexual Mormons have to realize that the Lord has one universal standard when it comes to marriage and morality: Complete chastity before marriage, complete fidelity after marriage and marriage is a covenant relationship between God, a man, and a woman. NO EXCEPTIONS! The gay-rights movement wants special, extra-Constitutional rights which is in reality, reverse discrimination towards everybody else. You don't get rid of discrimination with more discrimination, even if it is sanctioned by the government. Thank-you

Anonymous | 4:31 p.m. April 7, 2008

@ Darthlaurie,

"Eat drink and be marry for tomorrow we die..."

Kevin | 4:30 p.m. April 7, 2008

Well, good luck to Affirmation. I know some of these guys. I don't know why they stick with this church... or any church that defames their moral character for that matter. That is something I will never understand. But they've been asking for this meeting for, what, 30 years? So good luck.

Comments continue below

Freeman | 4:33 p.m. April 7, 2008

To Sparkes22:

Don't confuse the scriptural definition of "liberal" with your political views. They are not remotely related.

To all those who have quoted the Savior in arguing that he would accept homosexuals, remember that to the adulterous woman he replied, "Go, and sin no more." He did not say, "Go, and be yourself." Yes, he was accepting and understanding, but he expected (and commanded) change.

All of us are required to "put off the natural man," regardless of what that nature may be. To assume that you don't have to change is to deny the power of the Atonement. Affirmation can sit down with representatives of the church all day, but the plan of salvation (which is eternal and unchanging) will not be different in 5, 10, 20, or 1000 years. What will change is the person who applies the Savior's sacrifice in his/her life. And that's what everyone needs.

Baton Rouge | 4:40 p.m. April 7, 2008

"Open Discussion," If you have served in these important capacities in the church, you should know better than to use previous church callings as a false veil of authority. Please treat the responsibilities you have held with respect and refrain from using them to attempt to legitimize your opinions.

Bart | 4:49 p.m. April 7, 2008

I'm quite sure that part of the reason Pres. Monson is asking members to be more respectful and tolerant of other's views is because that is the way the Savior would have us act. After reading many of these posts, it becomes very obvious that there is a large amount arrogance amongst the membership. Many feel as though they know all there is to know and that is that. Well, come judgement day, we may have to whimper to the Almighty that we "though" we knew the gospel. "Judge not that ye be not judged," is very wise counsel. Let things take their course and don't be so darned belligerent.

mw | 4:49 p.m. April 7, 2008

What I cannot understand is the sheer disapproval of people who are different. Elder Wirthlin taught us that we need to love and understand those who are different. I can tell you from honest personal experience that NO ONE "chooses" to be a homosexual. It is not that simple. Gays and lesbians are incredibly alone in the Church. In they're entire lives they have to secretly cover their true feelings that God gave to them. And why? Because of hateful bigots in the Church. Having Affirmation speak to a Church official will be an incredible step in helping homosexual and heterosexual members of the church to come to a more full understanding. Consider yourselves lucky you have not "succumbed" to this temptation. That notion is totally ridiculous.

Thinker... | 5:01 p.m. April 7, 2008

There have been a lot of alleged "misunderstandings" and "accusations" on these posts. What does this group expect to happen? Do they want the church to give better counceling on how to overcome their SGA? Or do they want complete acceptance and the church to say that it's normal? What do they want and what do they expect? No doubt as members of the church we need to welcome all to meetings and ward functions but to what extent do they want the church to help or do for that matter?

It seems that all gay rights groups want their lifestyle accepted. This being said, it's no wonder why we have gotten some of the posts we've gotten and doesn't really mean we "hate." Love can be shown through disapproval, a child drinking underage comes to mind. We disaprove of the "lifestyle" not the person. God will judge according to anyones "actions" whether heterosexual or homosexual and the church will not hedge on this point.

I dont think so... | 5:01 p.m. April 7, 2008

"Society is changing | 1:10 p.m. Apr. 7, 2008
How is this any different than the way the Church used to look at mixed marriages? Society changed and the Church changed. Society is once again changing, better get used to the idea that the Church could also change, too.

Of course, not for at least another 20 years, so we should have time to adjust.

Talking" is simply the first step."

You must be living in lala land to even think "that the church could also change, too. Speaking about "mixed marriages", I have lots of friends who are mixed marriages but they are man and woman couples too with "traditional family" beliefs. Society may be changing according to some people, but the Church doctrines won't change at all cost.

Sam Nielson | 5:08 p.m. April 7, 2008

Just to remind everyone about what President Monson said yesterday, "The world in which we live is filled with diversity. We can and should demonstrate respect toward those whose beliefs differ from ours." True, we respect those whose beliefs differ from ours, including beliefs about sexuality.

This meeting is probably an effort to show respect to those who choose the homosexual lifestyle. At the same time, those living that lifestyle (or finding it acceptable) should be able to respect the church for its rejection of such a lifestyle and not call on the church to change. Accept that the church will not change its position and get over it. For those living the gay lifestyle, if you never want to change, so be it. We can respect you and you can respect us.

Finally, all should remember what President Monson said in General Priesthood meeting on Saturday, "The face of sin today often wears the Halloween mask of tolerance. Do not be deceived; behind that facade is heartache, unhappiness and pain. You know what is right and what is wrong, and no disguise, however appealing, can change that."

Homosexuality is sin. Nothing will change that. Affirmation, accept it.

californian | 5:10 p.m. April 7, 2008

my only question is this: Why do people (and this is only one example but this is a common problem) seek to be part of an organization that has rules, guidelines, requirements, etc. that are counter to their own? I am terribly confused by that aspect of this. Would I try to join a Raiders fan club if my goal is to support the Chargers? Isn't a good share of the grief caused here avoidable if I don't try to be something I am not?

BigPoet | 5:07 p.m. April 7, 2008

One can't have his sins and his covenants too!

BigPoet | 5:09 p.m. April 7, 2008

I shudder when I see attempts to "lobby" a change in doctrine.

Gobo Fraggle | 5:15 p.m. April 7, 2008

black people holding the priesthood was always within the overall doctrine of the plan of salvation as taught by the church. So was plural marriage. Homosexuality is a direct attack on our commandment to multiply and replenish the earth, thus frustrating the designs of God. Black people with the priesthood only helps accomplish the designs of God and proves his love for all of his children.

THIS TOPIC | 5:24 p.m. April 7, 2008

Well Said. I get SO sick of the double standard of the Gay and Lesbian Community. Because I recognize that your homosexuality is wrong does not make me homophobic or intolerant. Because I don't pretend I don't care and I don't open my arms and hug you "even though you are gay" doesn't make me intolerant. Facts are facts. Any REAL Christian realizes that Homosexuality is not only wrong but it is a choice and it is a SIN. No sugar coating it. So don't play the "homophobic" or "intolerance" card because you need to try and justify your choices. God will be the judge, not me, but that doesn't mean I cannot call you on the carpet for a SIN! As Simon Cowell would say "Sorry"!

Good, But | 5:21 p.m. April 7, 2008

I sure don't hope they think they can convince the Church to accept homosexual couples and relationships.

St Balthasar | 5:41 p.m. April 7, 2008

It is sad that people - LDSaints or not - need to be reminded to be loving and tolerant, even of those whose lifestyles we don't agree with. I don't believe that any doctrine or even policies will actually be changed because of this upcoming dialogue; however, it seems exemplary to me that the Prophet has agreed for LDS officials to meet with Affirmation.

If we can eliminate (or at least greatly reduce) severe depression, suicide, the break up of families and increase our capacity to be loving, then I am all for such dialogue.

Some may fear the slippery slope of intolerance --> tolerance --> accepance --> embrace --> promotion (of that which was previously intolerable); that progression is not inevitable. As for me, I agree with my understanding of the Savior's teachings: Love all (that is not the same is: promote all sinfulness).

PS to those who feel that quoting scriptue or expressing understanding of doctrine is somehow presuming to "speak for the Lord" - it is not; I invite such to be less critical. This issue is sensitive no matter what "side" of it one is on.

Texas Lady | 5:36 p.m. April 7, 2008

I hope the church stands firm in it's requirements for all members.

If they change it will be just another church.

Bayou Vol | 5:45 p.m. April 7, 2008

Very few posters on this blog have mentioned anything regarding hate of the person or an unwillingness to love and understand the person. Posters have, however, emphatically declared their understanding of the plan of our H.F. and their loathing of the sin of homosexuality, regardless of the difficulty in overcoming it.

Sarah | 6:10 p.m. April 7, 2008

I hope that every day members can take this to heart and be more kind and understanding to homosexual members. I know the DN had a great article in one that is a celibate Homosexual.

The BYU stuff,though, will never happen.

This dialogue has been needed for a while. I hope the homosexual members complain about meredian magazine, that spreads some horrible hatred at homosexual members.

Positive | 6:13 p.m. April 7, 2008

I'm happy the Church is meeting with this group. I find it a positive, hopeful act. Talking and understanding are always better choices than silence and ignorance.

Ken Baguley | 6:19 p.m. April 7, 2008

You know, it's not that some are intolerant of those who call themselves gay, it's that all should be intolerant of the lifestyle. Let's face it, It's wrong and the individuals who are driven to it should do all they can to suppress it the same as those who have criminal tendencies should suppress it. When it's wrong, it's wrong. Repent and be baptized and stay clean...

Susan | 6:19 p.m. April 7, 2008

gays, lesbians,transgenders...it's ALL the SAME...

IT IS A SIN AND AGAINST ALL OF THE LORD'S TEACHINGS AND WAYS!

Walt | 6:34 p.m. April 7, 2008

Many of you make it so absolute, as if you know all about what is in another person's heart. Well, I am convinced. I don't want to be a member of this Church anymore.

Arizona Monte | 7:01 p.m. April 7, 2008

Bottom line....Why open a dialog with a "mere" prophet? The dialog needs to be opened with the one who's commandments they are. Then, learn who this Lord of Lords is. He created heaven and earth and all that is. Nothing was created that he did not create. He is omnipotent and knows all that there is to know, owns all there is to own, including us. A Prophet is but a mere man. Who is he that he would change the commandments of God. He is just the caretaker of the covenants and commandments. Go right to the source and bargain and complain and cajole with the God of Israel. Explain to him that he created you different and your difference is not the machinations and imaginations of man. Tell him He was wrong to have repented for making man, when the "different" ones were so "mainstream" in Sodom that they went about in gangs and raped all that were not already raped. How very thoughtless of their God. What is earthly consolation compared to salvation....indeed..exhaltaion.

gays next door | 7:16 p.m. April 7, 2008

WOW! i know 2 LDS men who are gay. One lives next door to me, and he keeps it very quite, and he has not been X'ed from the church yet. I have known several in the past 30 years of being a member. They are nice guys but have selfish life styles.

Jonathon | 7:19 p.m. April 7, 2008

Why can't the church change its doctrine? It wouldn't be the first time. The year I was baptised into the church (1978) was the same year the church made a major break with its past and began allowing blacks to hold the priesthood. Apparently it took god that long to get over his racism and see all races as equal. Now if only he could get past his sexism and homophobia, maybe the church could join the twenty first century...

Gay Mormon | 7:37 p.m. April 7, 2008

I appreciate the dialogue that this invitation has started within the LDS community. I believe this discussion will help Gay Mormons who suffer so much. I am one of them. For years I prayed and fasted that God would make me feel something towards a woman. I longed to be married and have a family. I went to therapy for many years and to Evergreen and searched the scriptures, the teaching of the prophets and the advice and counsel of church leaders, family members and friends.

It wasn't until I learned wisdom in accepting that some things can't be changed in this life and accepting myself for who I am that the clouds of darkness and despair lifted and I felt the sunlight of day. I believe that God's light is in the sunshine and that He has a plan for me. I know he is aware of the efforts I make to obey His commandments and teachings in every way I possibly can.

To: THIS TOPIC | 7:36 p.m. April 7, 2008

Do you think that those struggling with same gender attraction, especially those in the Church, WANT to feel that way? Many KNOW that to act on those desires would be wrong and would give ANYTHING to have a normal sexual orientation, but CAN'T because that's the way their bodies work. Acting on the desires is a choice; the desires are not.

Please understand this. Please.

Committed Partners | 7:40 p.m. April 7, 2008

My partner and I share a monogamous relationship that is very deep and caring. We pray and study together. We perform service for others in need, we hold dinners in which active heterosexual church members also attend. We share so much in common with these brothers and sister and look forward to feeling comfortable attending church. We don't ask the church to change their stand on temple requirements, but we just want to feel at peace in attending church and feeling the doors open not closed. Thanks President Monson for setting up this meeting.

Chris | 7:45 p.m. April 7, 2008

Pious, disgusting hypocrites - anyone who says gays are sinful. Hypocrites is what you are. I pray for YOU.

Across the sea | 7:44 p.m. April 7, 2008

From the foundation of the world nothing has changed nor it will ever be!Time and time the prophets has always speak out about this same gender attraction issues.The plan of salvation will not be frustrated by individual weaknesses and sinful behaviour however help is always available to families and individuals who are seeking help.
Individuals who wants to persue this issue will need to take it up with their creator in time to come.

Anonymous | 7:46 p.m. April 7, 2008

If the LDS church loosens its standards to openly accept the homosexual lifestyle, then it would have to loosen its standards with pre-marital sex and adultry, too...I highly doubt that is going to happen. Chastity is chastity whether you're gay, straight or bi.

Lesbian Mormon | 7:52 p.m. April 7, 2008

I love the fact that President Monson admonished the members to be more tolerant of others in General Conference. After reading some of these comments about the church meeting with Affirmation, I think there are some members that need to pick up the conference issue of the Ensign and read President Monsons talk again. To those members that wrote in I want to thank you again for strengthenin my testimony of why I no longer attend church.

truth | 8:06 p.m. April 7, 2008

Wonderful, I'm glad those of you who no longer attend church have chosen to express these views on this blog. This merely shows your selfishness and unwillingness to put God's teachings above your own and as the many examples in the scriptures show, hold on to your sin above all else. Members love and cherish you as a son our daughter of God, but will faithfully abide by and proclaim the teachings of God's servants. These teachings against homosexual acts are not those of the people of this blog. Do not confuse them with personal opinion. These are the eternal teachings through the plan of Heavenly Father. I, a n active church member, welcome you to come and learn of the perfect truth with other imperfect people. Do not dismiss those speaking the truth as ignorant or piously confused in order to mask your own selfish desires and unwillingness to accept truth. Regardless of our individual imperfections, God's truth is perfect. Homosexuality is a sin. We can and should speak out against sin. I love homosexuals and respect the good deeds they do, but will NEVER acquiesce to the legitimization of sin...even though I am not perfect.

Sorry but.... | 8:27 p.m. April 7, 2008

Not going to church because somebody else "offended" you is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.

Reaping what we sow | 8:37 p.m. April 7, 2008

There is just one thing to understand:

We reap what we sow.

Every "lifestyle" with regards to human relationships has its own reward:

Choosing marriage and family has its fruits.
Choosing to be single and not marry has its fruits.
Choosing to be part of a homosexual relationship has its fruits.

We each (regardless of lifestyle choice)just need to be sure and realize that when we pick up one end of the stick, we pick up the other as well. I heard today of a fellow whose wife wanted to be "single" once more in order to "play around" after being married. She became pregnant and now she is married again to another man, having traded her first husband, home, and two children for another husband, little apartment, and two more children. She is unhappy now and wishes she had stayed with her first choice. Could she have seen that coming?

Let's each think ahead and look down the road. Make your choice. It is yours and yours alone. What do you want in 10, 20, and 50 years? If you want that thing, that goal, you'll get it. You are the one that has to live with it.

Commandments | 8:34 p.m. April 7, 2008

I'm not a homosexual, so no, I don't understand the difficulty of same-sex attraction. However, I am a happily married man with three children and one on the way. What I do understand is opposite-sex attraction. Boy, do I understand it. Do you homosexuals who want not only the Church, but the whole of society to accept you with open arms understand that most men have raging desires from time to time to have more than one opposite-sex partner? But guess what, its against the commandments. Period. I fight with my inner lusts all the time. Thankfully, I've never given in to them. And I'm a very happy guy. I don't rage against "society" because I can't act on my desires. Do you think child molesters should "act" on what they were born with? Are they denied their "God-given" inner self? I don't confirm nor deny you were born the way you are. But I believe the scriptures and the commandments are the way. It's not that you can't live your life the way you want, but the Church and society at large doesn't have to accept your behavior as equal to heterosexuality. We all have to control desires...

Adam | 8:40 p.m. April 7, 2008

Remember that from the restoration of the church until about 20 years ago, abortion was considered murder and an unforgiveable sin. Now abortion is accepted in some cases even though it is still the killing of an innocent life. If it is possible to change an unforgiveable sin, would it not be even more likely to change a forgiveable sexual sin such as homosexuality? This is what comes in the belief in a changeable god.

skywalker200 | 8:55 p.m. April 7, 2008

I think Affirmation will be unpleasantly surprised with the words from the prophet. Obviously, this is an issue, and LDS family services is a wonderful organization that helps thousands of people overcome hundreds of kinds of addictions or family problems. However, those who are not willing to help themselves cannot be coddled. Homosexuality is real, and it can be difficult for those who wish to live the Gospel standards. Living the lifestyle is a choice, however, just like living a chaste life is a choice for a strait person. I as a strait person have to abstain from sex before marriage in accordance with Church teachings and gays are no different. I can't recall any Church official telling anyone that if they are attracted to the same gender, they cannot enter the temple. They can, however, live the Gospel just like me and go anytime they want. I know several people who do, and I love them. But I think Affirmation needs to hear that from President Monson's representative. We love and respect them, but we cannot condone behavior that is not in accordance with Church teachings, and that goes for everyone.

Brain Game | 8:55 p.m. April 7, 2008

If homosexuality is a sin, then why can gay people hold temple recommends? It boggles the mind.
And for another brain exercise, reread all the comments, but substitute mormon for homosexuality and pretend they were written by fundamentalist christians.
Does this change what you think of tolerance?

Texas MOrmon | 9:16 p.m. April 7, 2008

I do believe that sex between same sex is wrong and that the church will stand on their doctrine. However, until my sister decided to live with another woman and raise a family with her, I couldn't see that people who are gay are still humans. We as a family have learned to love and accept our sister, regardless of her lifestyle. We hope that someday she will return to the church and bring her children up with the same doctrines she was raised with. However, until that time, I am so happy that President Monson is willing to listen and learn from "gay members". He is not there to judge, and it appears they are not there to demand. They will just be working together to try to help those in the community who have been ignored and pushed aside. Good for them!

Tolerance isn't acceptance | 9:22 p.m. April 7, 2008

Folks, tolerance doesn't mean acceptance. I've read so many comments on here from homosexuals that say they are glad Pres. Monson told people to be more tolerant as if we are supposed to agree with your homosexual behavior.

That's not what tolerance is. Pres. Monson also said, "In these days sin manifests itself in the hollowing mask of tolerance. We know what is right and what is wrong."

I love each of my 5 children, unconditionally. However, when one of them needs correcting, I correct them. If one of them steals, I don't condone their behavior, yet I still love them.

I'm sorry that some homosexuals aren't treated well in their own families and wards. However, that doesn't negate the fact that homosexual behavior has been condemned by Christ.

I really don't understand how homosexuals sit on these pages and obviously in their lives and try to justify what they are doing.

Will we next have a group of theives, liars, adulterers, etc. who want to have a meeting? For what purpose?

People have been counseled to welcome all people. It's not the church, but the imperfect people in it that need to change. Truth is eternal.

Mort | 9:23 p.m. April 7, 2008

I believe that sex between anyone is wrong.

Just my opinion, but... | 9:26 p.m. April 7, 2008

I truly think that as society becomes more and more accepting of gays, in TV shows, movies, and possibly even accepting gay marriage, the Church will eventually have to follow suit. Or else it will be seen as a bigoted and out-of-date organization that only bigoted out-of-date people want to belong to.

Whether we want to accept it or not, our values and expectations DO change over time. Dress standards that would be considered "totally immodest" years ago are now totally acceptable. Blacks DO have the priesthood. Plural marriage is part of our past, not present. Mixed marriages are now acceptable.

People and attitudes DO change.

Churches positions have changed? | 9:31 p.m. April 7, 2008

Regarding "changes(?) in doctrine:

Look back into scriptural history. At times God permitted polygamous relationships. At other times and with various other peoples, he did not.

At times some were given the priesthood. It was limited to specific lineages, or peoples. At other times he did not. In fact, this is the first time in the history of the world (except for Adam's time) that the Priesthood has been given to all men. Some black men held it in Joseph Smith's time. I think that it was because of the ignorance of the people in the 1800's that this did not continue at large.

I don't think God will say:

"Okay, don't have kids. People aren't important. Don't give others a life- yes, that gift you were given."

Life is not about what I want. It is about what I can and could give to others. Quit worrying about yourself and go to work.

Is life about "me," or "thee?"

Lesbian Mormon | 9:27 p.m. April 7, 2008

In response to "Truth". Perfect! You helped make my point. You judge me and call me "selfish and unwilling to put God's teachings above my own" without even knowing me. I know the 30 years that I was active in the church, I was taught that we will be judged by Heavenly Father but it sounds like that may have changed.

jph1223 | 9:28 p.m. April 7, 2008

I know this is crass, but I hope it makes my point. I am divorced and I can tell you that I enjoy having sex with women. However, in order to be Temple worthy and to keep the Spirit with me, I don't have sex with women. I like the smell of a nice cigar, but in order to keep my Temple recommend and to keep the Spirit with me, I don't partake. Nor would I attempt to attend BYU and expect them to change their honor code so I can have sex with women and smoke cigars and not feel guilty about it. As a matter of fact, I do things like pray and read my scriptures and listen to General Conference to help fortify me from breaking these and other commandments. You ought to try it. It works. Especially if you want it to work.

Anonymous | 9:37 p.m. April 7, 2008

1. God loves it when he sees his children born.
2. God is happier when he sees them raised by loving parents.
3. We each need to be glad of parents. It is why we each exist.

I don't expect anyone to modify things to make me or you feel better. Our actions have their natural and eternal consequences. You can't write your own rules to the Earth Game. Try if it makes you feel better.

For each of us that are alive and exist in mortal form, we have a mother (woman) and a father (man) responsible for it. Remember your roots. Give thanks for the man and woman that made you. Give back in their tradition. It is an act of complete selflessness- and gives back ten-fold.

Oh yeah- but I hear it is REALLY hard. Especially when you have teenagers.

Deeper understanding | 9:32 p.m. April 7, 2008

There are people on here that need to deepen their understanding of the gospel of the church they profess to belong to.

Many comments show a shallow understanding of eternal truths. The comments show that some of us didn't pay attention too well in Seminary and Sunday SChool classes. It would behoove many to start hitting the books a little better along with prayer to deepen their gospel knowledge.

The gospel isn't changing folks. You think the counsel given about homosexuality in the OT and NT are somehow going to be changed now? No they won't be changed.

If homosexuals can get a deeper understanding of the gospel from this meeting, great.

I would encourage all to deepen their understanding of the gospel. All humans are children of God and deserve love and respect. No one should be demeaned no matter what they do.

I have many homosexual friends. We have lunch, dinner, they babysit, etc.

We can all get along, but trying to justify your behavior is just making excuses. We all fall into the same trap for many of our sins.

Christ is the only option for all of us sinner. Seek Him; Follow Him!

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.