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Comments about ‘LDS officials to meet with gay group’

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Dialogue will be unprecedented move for church

Published: Monday, April 7 2008 12:18 a.m. MDT

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Dane

The LDS Church believes homosexuality is wrong and that's not going to change. True some people have an attraction to members of the same sex. As long as they don't act on those feelings they can remain worthy members of the church. BYU's honor code will not change. Why should it? Straight students can't honorably attend if they are sexually active. They're not going to make an exception for a minority group.

Moessers

To: "Don't Blame Genetics"

That's like saying downs syndrome, or sickle cell, or cancer should have selected itself out a long time ago.

Sagacious Inquisitor

RE: Sagacious | 11:40 a.m. Apr. 8

To which civil rights do you refer? Those civil rights outlawing sex with children or animals? Those similar civil rights outlawing polygamy, prostitution or sex outside marriage? Those under which Texas is prosecuting the RLDS? Which sexually related laws violate your civil rights? How? Which should be abolished? If some, to make things even, why not all?

Did someone unjustly call you a pedophile? That would be wrong! If, however, you support pedophilia through child pornography, or in any way, would such name calling make things more even?

If someone believes your lifestyle is potentially the downfall of society should they be vilified and silenced while you retain the right to openly advocate your agenda? Does the imposition of standards of normalicy by society imply evil to those who think they are all knowing; whilst you of a vastly minor and opposing viewpoint are really the ones who are all knowing?

Have you; others you know; suffered physical violence from the normal society which oppresses you?
Have you suffered it from the twisted community?
Either way, its wrong; and should be prosecuted under law.
Would that even division of prosecution satisfy you?

WJ

Gays who have illicit sex should be expelled. As the article states, "The same standard applies to straight students." Good point. Gays should be accepted, but acting on their tendencies should not, just as fornication is not accepted.

BLJT

To Dane and WJ: I think the point about the honor code at BYU is that it has not always been applied equally. Gay students have been expelled for things far short of sex, such as hand-holding and merely "associating" with other gay people.

Sagacious Inquisitor

Moessers,

Great insight!

In the spirit of true and open acceptance and for the sake of absolute, unquestioning tolerance; as with Down Syndrome, or Sickle Cell, or Cancer we should probably accept the mutation causing Homosexuality as a normal condition of humankind.

Do you think?

Rich

I've decided to comment without first reading the comments posted here. I'm hopeful the posters exhibited the same spirit of hopefulness and reconciliation and understanding that the LDS Church and Affirmation have expressed. Yes, there is a need for what Ms. Larabee calls for: "more understanding, more acceptance and less isolation." Though I myself am a heterosexual LDS man, I have good friends who are gay and have had gay friends who have died of AIDs. I love and accept my gay friends and am confident they will be met by a loving and accepting God on the other side of the veil. On the other hand, I don't believe that God countenances either gay sex or extramarital heterosexual sex. We are all humans, prone to making mistakes, whether we are gay or hetero. Such mistakes can lead to much unhappiness, including a loss of self-esteem. I have no problem having openly sexuallly active gays in church just as I have no problem accepting couples who live together outside marriage. But I don't think the church can be expected to start issuing temple recommends to members of either group.

Don't Blame Genetics

To Moessers,

"That's like saying downs syndrome, or sickle cell, or cancer should have selected itself out a long time ago."

Those diseases aren't always caused by genetic inheritance from your parents. Cancer, for example, can be caused the introduction of external substances, (i.e. smoking, radiation exposure, etc.).

Genetic pre-disposition can lead to illnesses like that, and to the extent that death occurs before adulthood they do tend to select themselves out. The problem is that these conditions often do not cause death before the person reproduces.

If homosexuality were genetically related it would not necessarily select itself out of existence entirely because, as I mentioned, homosexuals do sometimes marry heterosexually and have children. However, it would tend towards elimination. What we see in society today is that homosexuality is a growing problem, not a shrinking one.

The genetic traits leading to the illnesses you mention can be traced from generation to generation. Why do we not see that with homosexuality?

Above all my primary point remains, all of us have genetically produced desires that can lead us to sin. We have to control those desires if we want to be productive members of society.

Just curious

How is that so many people here have so many gay friends? Statistics show that only 3% of the population is gay. So if you have 100 good friends, which is a lot of GOOD friends 3 of them would be gay. Yet a number of people on here have a lot of gay friends. I have only known about 5 or so openly gay people in my life.

Judgement

I think trying to discern what is in anybody's heart is difficult if not impossible. None of us know where another is on his spiritual journey. I cannot believe anybody would choose the lifestyle of the gay person if he truly had a choice. Life is difficult enough for the straight person. I think each of us is charged with helping all persons to reach their goals where we are able. Life must be very lonely for those who find themselves unable to live their chosen spiritual path without the support of loved ones and friends and with a spirit that tells them they are different. I can only imagine trying to be happy and live a fulfilled life as a person that is reviled by the general public, wondering if the next person they meet is going to be so disagreeable as to be even dangerous to their very life. It would be wonderful for the families of these loved ones to be able to live without the dread of hearing off colored jokes and cruel criticism of their gay loved one.

Seriously

I'm sorry, but framing homosexuality as a civil rights movement is ridiculous and opens a pandora's box for other destructive behavior. If we need to legislate to protect the "right" of gays than we need to legislate to protect the "right" of smokers, drug addicts, and alcoholics. How is sexual preference different than any other preference? If we protect the rights of one group's preferences we have to do it for everyone. The Bill of Rights is enough for everyone.

RE:Sagacious PT 2

I am referring to my right to live my life equally under the laws, i.e marriage/legal rights. Where you came up with all the sexual content, I don't know, I never mentioned it. Get your mind out of my bedroom

Yes, I have been called a pedophile and on this very site. Because I am gay, I would call that "unjustly" wouldn't you? And no I DON'T support any type of child exploitation be it pornography or polgamy. Again, don't know where you got that.

NO ONE needs ot remain silent, again something I didn't say. BUt why should I remain silent as a minority? And what about your agenda? Aren't you promoting it? Why shouldn't I??

Yes, I have suffered physical violence because I was gay. But I could not prosecute it as a hate crime with stiffer penalties because crimes against gays are not classified as hate crimes. You can't prosecute a law that doesn't exist.

Finally, yes I would like to see an equal division of rights. Both good and bad, based on a system of balance, equality and justice. Would YOU settle for anything less?

SGL

Dane...you mention that there are people that are attracted to the same sex, but as long as they keep it to themselves, then they can still be worthy members of the church...is'nt that being a little hypercritical. When the Bishop ask's you if you have been moraly clean for your temple recomandation, what is one to do??? LIE??? Just like the person who lies about having a beer once in a while, and then tells the bishop that he/she has been moraly clean. I would rather see someone be truthful and say yes I am gay, and still be accepted, then to see someone lie, just to put on a good show.


An oversea summary

Being from an oversea country where Church is still "emerging", I am quite saddened by some of your comments. We tend to look up to you, the Sion... Let me summarize the few noteworthy thoughts stated here, for the benefit of those who might be in need: 1) You'd better never tell anyone, especially if you sincerely hope and plan to remain temple worthy; 2) You will always lack the emotional closeness, someone you can actually talk to; But you can develop much closer relationship with your Savior. Afer all, He is the only one who really understands you. 3) In the moments of despair and temptation, just remember "straight" men fight these battles too, only their enemy looks different. And let me add two more: 4) Beware of the feelings of being treated injustly (no matter how unfair it felt to suddenly discover yours was the SGA), simply don't dwell on it and get involved in other things. And if you really cant't at this moment, hang on (and hold to the rod) till you again can. And 5)Yes, definitely, you have the right to belong to this group, it's your Heavenly Father's kingdom.

EasternLDS

To Dave:
I never said I was an expert on the topic however I do believe that homosexuality is a behavioral choice. We are not animals. We can train our desires.

Reed (again)

Quote scripture, modern prophets, alien visitors and interpret them as you will. It's moderately applicable and mildly entertaining. But, the God I know cares more about how we treat our fellow beings than our grasp of doctrine. Having a good heart, caring attitude, humble demeanor and contrite spirit is going to carry us further toward our eternal goals than comprehension of convoluted or partially disclosed church teachings. It is not the church we worship, it is God. Come judgement day, do you really think He will ask you to quote scripture or explain doctrine? Or, might He get more to the point and ask, "When your brother suffered, what gavest thou him? Understanding & love or a lecture on right versus wrong.
I apologize if I was guilty of name calling. That was not my intention. However, I am reminded of one of my fathers favorite sayings, "If the shoe fits, wear it".

Dear BYU--

Does anyone see the double-standard in saying "The same standard at BYU applies to straight students--Sex outside of marriage is wrong!?"

Okay then, straight people can get married and then have sex, but is that available to homosexuals? NO! What hubris! Is the only thing that would make straight people see how wrong they are a proclamation against straight marriage?

Hey More to the Equation

Are you an idiot? Homosexuality IS all about the sex. If you take the sex away it is hanging out with the guys (or girls).

There are and have been many men in my life who I loved dearly and wanted to spend time with but I never thought of them in a sexual way.

This was NOT same gender attraction and should not be confused with it or homosexuality. This is healthy.

Taking it to the level of fantasizing about the other person and getting naked is unhealthy and wrong.

Rich

Just Curious, have you wondered how many covertly gay people you have known? In my case I graduated high school in a class of 450, meaning that if I accept your 3% guideline, then about 15 of them were gay. I also had close associations with many students who were a year younger and a year older than I was due to the type of school I attended and the activities in which I took part. Each of those classes was composed of approximately 400 persons, so that's another 24 gay persons who were in my school at any given time when I was a junior, for a total of 39. I knew about two -thirds of the students my age and about half the students who were a year older or younger than I was. In college I had close associations with perhaps 200 other students in my on-campus job, student organizations, intramural sports, etc. So there's another six gays I would know by name. In my professional life I knew two gays who worked in my office at my first big job, and I'm sure there were others. There are 200 people in my LDS ward. Etc.

BLJT

Sexual orientation is such a bigger part of one's life than a temptation to drink alcohol, or smoke, or "lose one's temper", or drive above the speed limit.

I just want to ask all these people who keep making those comparisons to imagine a world where the vast majority of people were attracted to others of the same sex, such that for a long time it was considered the only norm. Yet you are attracted to the opposite sex, you always have been, and you don't know why. Can you imagine trying to conform to the norm that is expected of you? Could you will yourself to become gay? And would that be at all like abstaining from coffee?

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