Deseret News | Reader comments: Bailout may brighten UTOPIA future

Reader comments
Bailout may brighten UTOPIA future

Orem Parent | 6:56 a.m. April 6, 2008

Good move by the cities. I love our UTOPIA internet connection. Blazing fast speed and that is with one desktop and 2 laptops sharing the same connection.

Phone is adequate. T.V. leaves something to be desired but hopefully with more subscribers and more cash flow, that will improve as well.

Once the fiber optic is made available to all residents, they will see huge growth.

samhill | 7:26 a.m. April 6, 2008

I sure wish Sandy, where I live, were at least one of the non-pledging municipalities. Mayor Dolan is pretty good at the basic infrastructure stuff (roads, garbage cleanup, lighting, etc.) but when it comes to anything more high-tech than a lightbulb, it seems Sandy is really backward.

Having highspeed access to the Internet has become extremely important and soon will be a vitally important aspect of living in our society. As risky as UTOPIA may seem now, not having the capabilities it provides will soon be recognized as much more than risky.

I suppose the presumption is that if UTOPIA succeeds in those places that are now assuming the risk for its success, it will be a rlatively minor matter to do as they did later. That is probably true, but in the meantime (and that may be quite a while) we Sandyites must dawdle along with our pitiful Internet connnections via Comcast and Quest. Not very commendable Sandy.

I want fiber | 8:06 a.m. April 6, 2008

If they offered it where I live I would get it in a second.

Comments continue below

Government Management | 8:49 a.m. April 6, 2008

Another project managed and funded by government to compete with the private sector. I wonder how this one will end up? Looks like the tax payers better get their check books out again. Sure it's great to have big bandwidth for special purposes. But don't you think that if there was demand for these expensive services that Qwest and Comcast would build the network to compete and provide the services? Why don't they do it? Because the demand is not there. Government managers are famous for putting out rediculous business cases for their pet projects. iProvo is yet another example. "We are almost at breakeven." The problem is it is just a bad loan. Refinancing will fix the problem. Good luck with all that. I think i know how this will turn out (again).

West Valley techie | 9:05 a.m. April 6, 2008

The governments building UTOPIA are like the agencies that built the Erie Canal, the first airports, and the Interstate Highway system. Yes there is some risk, but the goal is to provide a conduit that the private sector won't (in UTOPIA'S case high speed fiber optics)and then allow the private sector to compete on it. The best wi-fi and cable technology is constrained by physics to the speed of sound. UTOPIA's fiber can travel the speed of light. Go UTOPIA, go!

UTOPIA | 12:33 p.m. April 6, 2008

To Government Management:

Who do you work for Qwest or Comcast?

RE:Government Management | 12:45 p.m. April 6, 2008

"Another project managed and funded by government to compete with the private sector"
in many area's of layout no high speed is avaliable or you are stuck with comcast (which is close to 55$ for internet + 15$ pleasure of not having basic cable fee), even the lucky who have comcast and qwest in their neighborhoods still wont have internet connections that can provide web 2.0 services(HD youtube, online movie rental, video phone, etc and not just niche services their no demand for)

"Looks like the tax payers better get their check books out again." from the article

"But the consortium has reached the break-even point with its 7,000 subscribers."

"The problem is it is just a bad loan. Refinancing will fix the problem."
lets see you walk away cleanly after having a $66million rug pulled out from under you, the fact that they are still solvent is a testament how well their managers have handled the situation.

really why would comcast or qwest upgrade their networks. charge 40$ for dsl or spend $500million to charge 40$ for fiber... jee tough choice their.
if we want we have to build it or we will not get it.

gladihaveit | 1:47 p.m. April 6, 2008

Just moved my business to Murray. I chose that location over the one I was looking at in Sandy because of UTOPIA. It has completely turned my business around. It used to take me days to prepare and upload files to send to our corporate offices in Seattle. What took days before is done in minutes now. People say government shouldn't compete with private business--wrong! My T1 line i had in South Salt Lake doesn't hold a candle to what I have in Murray. If we wait for Qwest and Comcast to catch up, many of us will be bankrupt. This is infrastructure for the present day....that's what govenments are supposed to provide. I'm now looking for a home in a UTOPIA city..preferably Murray. As I look, I'm only interested in the areas that have UTOPIA. This is a vital commodity in today's high-speed world.

Andrew | 3:52 p.m. April 6, 2008

"Because the demand is not there."

That may be true. However, that doesn't mean the demand won't be there. It takes years to build out this type of infrastructure which means we need to start now.

This trend is already starting. Gladihaveit is a perfect example. Their business moved to Murray over Sandy specifically for UTOPIA. That's increased tax revenue that Murray will be making instead of Sandy.

Cities need to consider all the costs & benefits. Even if UTOPIA were losing money (which it isn't) the cities could very well be making back more than they were losing in increased property values and taxes from companies that relocated to their city.

VISION 1910 | 6:45 p.m. April 6, 2008

"Cars can't go faster than 30 mph because their drivers can't breathe"

"If we allow cars on the road, they will scare the horses"

"The demand for paved roads isn't warranted because there aren't enough cars"

"Government shouldn't pay for paved roads because only the rich people drive cars"

These are some of the reasons made by the experts about the success of the car back at the turn of the 20th century. Sound familiar?

More Fiber, please!

David | 10:19 p.m. April 6, 2008

The UTOPIA project is helping to keep jobs in Utah. I think the opponents are not as globally informed as they should be. I set up call centers around the world and yes, many local governments in many other countries help build and fund fiber optic networks to bring jobs to their communities. This is not much different than building airports or freeways. My UTOPIA connection costs ten times less than what I was previously paying, and I am a lifetime customer (as long as it is available). The BBB and other organizations should be marketing UTOPIA cities as places to bring call centers and other high tech businesses to Utah.

Bountiful Resident | 10:20 p.m. April 6, 2008

The $202 Million to back the UTOPIA project might sound like a lot of money. However, I and other residents in Bountiful, Woods Cross, North Salt Lake, and West Bountiful are now paying for an $80 Million rec. center. Actually, the $202 Million shared by the 11 cities is a tolerable risk for the citizens who otherwise would not pay anything for a fiber optic network that will benefit them for many decades, much longer than our rec. center.

samhill | 10:32 p.m. April 6, 2008

To "West Valley techie":

I hope you were joking, or at least sarcastically hyperbolic when you made the comparison between the data rates of Qwest/Comcast copper/coax signals versus fiber as the same as the speed of sound versus light.

The electromagnetic signals carried in copper and coax cable are traveling at the "speed of light", within the context of the medium in which they travel.

In the case of copper/coax versus fiber optics, it is not the speed of the signal that determines the data carrying capacity. It is the wavelength/frequency. The higher the frequency, the higher the capacity.

Please, if you are going to make comments with some technical component to them, try and get it right. Physics is confusing enough to too many people to add these misconceptions to the argument.

Greg W | 11:51 p.m. April 6, 2008

Sandy hasn't signed on because of Qwest/Comcast strong arming Mayor Dolan. It's really that simple. Dolan supports a soccer stadium that no one will attend and a cultural arts center. Yet, the most important, a high speed internet infrastructure, he turns a blind eye because of politics.

Jesse Harris | 9:35 a.m. April 7, 2008

Imagine my surprise that the Deseret Morning News managed to get the story right! The bungling of the RUS loans by the USDA has left UTOPIA with little choice but to refinance the bonds to make up the shortfall. The other option is to start calling pledges without a way to finish construction of the network, not exactly a great option for the cities. I was especially pleased to see reports of how UTOPIA has been saving cities, businesses and residents loads of money on telecommunications services.

As far as Sandy and other cities are concerned, there are a large number of other Sandy, West Jordan and Salt Lake City residents that I've been in contact with who are interested in presenting a unified front on getting those cities into UTOPIA. If you're interested in organizing with them, I highly recommend you contact me at jesse@freeutopia.org so I can get you talking to each other.

Wraptur | 12:49 p.m. April 7, 2008

To Government Management, who said:
"Another project managed and funded by government to compete with the private sector."

FALSE, FALSE and umm... FALSE.

Managed by the private sector, NOT! Its public record try looking at some of the following PRIVATE managers and contractors of the Network: DynamicCity/PacketFront, TetraTech, CTS, Genesis, SCI, FiberTel, Jackson Construction, AmeriCom, NielsFugal etc.

Funded by government? NOT, or at least not yet, but if people don't get educated and oppose it enough to allow the Quests and Comcast to kill the movement maybe. Also even if worse case scenerio pledges were called on to make loan payments the cities have weighed that into the equations before they pledged and they decided it would be well worth it. They have planned for that.

Competing with the private sector? NOT, UTOPIA is promoting the private sector by ensuring open competition. Heck UTOPIA would even let the governmentally funded monopolies like quest provide services on the UTOPIA network how's that for fair?

There was a reason for the govt. regulated monopolies back in the day to improve the quality of life but those days are over. Now we need it to support open fiber to the home networks!

Orem Cheerleader | 3:48 p.m. April 7, 2008

UTOPIA city citizens, please contact your city council members and give them your support in re-structuring the finances of UTOPIA. They are putting their necks out for the future and are deserving of your input in this important decision.

Lost cause | 8:10 p.m. April 7, 2008

The comments posted are Utopia employees trying to sell this thing. Just like iProvo cost them a fortune, this will cost all these cities everything they have.

The only thing worse than a monopoly is a government agency.

Jeremy Manning | 12:27 a.m. April 8, 2008

UTOPIA isn't an example of government competing against business. Neither the cable monopoly nor the local phone monopoly is willing to provide MODERN communications infrastructure to my city or my home. UTOPIA will allow that to happen and open the network to all private communications companies who can then compete for our business. That isn't possible on either the cable network or the phone lines.

For decades our government at every level has been giving cable and phone companies a guarantee that they won't have to worry about any real competition. Now these few wise cities are allowing capitalism and the free market room to benefit all consumers through real competition for our business. It is about time!

Great cause | 11:51 a.m. April 8, 2008

I'm no UTOPIA employee but I am very excited about UTOPIA coming to Centerville. Anyone who understands technology would not question why we need this when we have Qwest and Comcast. Fiber-optic opens up so many more opportunities. Those city leaders who side with UTOPIA will in the future be viewed as trailblazers and wise visionaries with enough foresight to give their cities the technological foundation needed to succeed in the 21st century.

role of government | 11:56 a.m. April 11, 2008

government in its true sense provides three essential functions: national defense, rule of law, and regluation of trade. it is not the role of government to build you roads or fiber optic lines for internet. dwight built all the interstates in the 50's to provide for military mobilization (national defense). much of the technological advances we have improved emerged with the space program (also for national defense during the cold war). now that we have a taste of highways and technology we just expect government to keep providing.

James | 5:31 p.m. April 14, 2008

This is not competition with the private sector. UTOPIA provides the 'last mile', which is a natural monopoly (and hence should be done by government), and ISPs link up at a central location to provide the Internet service. You aren't getting Internet from UTOPIA -- you are getting a fiberoptic line to a centralized location from UTOPIA, and then buying Internet access from an ISP of your choice, in that building.

This is a _good_ investment, and improves competition. Just wish there was some equivalent out here in Ohio. :(

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