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LDS leader blasts abuse
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Jacob | 9:49 p.m. April 5, 2008
This talk puts the Church in a sticky situation. The non-believers will attack
the Church for being "behind" and not addressing the issue soon
enough, some believers hail it as wonderful, others hail it as too late. I
personally think this was a good talk on a timely issue. I believe that we as a
society must protect our children from abuse of any kind and this reminder was
needed.
May we all learn to love one another and realize that he is trying to create change.
May we all learn to love one another and realize that he is trying to create change.
Anonymous | 10:04 p.m. April 5, 2008
Ignore the attackers, the wicked take the truth to be hard. Those who are
against apostles taking a stand against abusers maybe are doing a little of that
themselves. REPENT. The church has always made it know in conferences as far
back as I can remember child abuse is evil and the greatest of all sins. I
remember as a child them quoting a scripture that it would be better for that
man to tie a millstone around his neck and drop in the ocean than to offend a
little one.
Comments continue below
where can I begin.... | 10:16 p.m. April 5, 2008
Excellent, necessary talk. Love Elder Scott and his willingness to address
delicate subjects with gentleness coupled with firmness.
There is so much misinformation and misinterpretation in many of the comments in this blog that it's hard to know where to begin. LDS Bishops are required to contact appropriate authorities. Are they perfect? No, so some of them don't follow through as they should, but the majority do a good job.
Can abusers change? Can the abused forgive? Yes to both. I was a sexually abused wife back in the 70's when marital rape was not recognized. I escaped, literally, and have gone on to have a wonderful life and many children. After a period of time I was able to forgive him, and he sincerely apologized. We had 3 kids together, so being on friendly terms was helpful. But it was a necessary part of my own healing process.
Are people wrongfully accused? Yes. My husband was, and we are suffering the consequences of that for the rest of our lives together. A church court found him not guilty, so we cling to that. I'm thankful that God will sort out all the inequities and make it right for us.
There is so much misinformation and misinterpretation in many of the comments in this blog that it's hard to know where to begin. LDS Bishops are required to contact appropriate authorities. Are they perfect? No, so some of them don't follow through as they should, but the majority do a good job.
Can abusers change? Can the abused forgive? Yes to both. I was a sexually abused wife back in the 70's when marital rape was not recognized. I escaped, literally, and have gone on to have a wonderful life and many children. After a period of time I was able to forgive him, and he sincerely apologized. We had 3 kids together, so being on friendly terms was helpful. But it was a necessary part of my own healing process.
Are people wrongfully accused? Yes. My husband was, and we are suffering the consequences of that for the rest of our lives together. A church court found him not guilty, so we cling to that. I'm thankful that God will sort out all the inequities and make it right for us.
Steven S | 10:22 p.m. April 5, 2008
Richard G. Scott's talk was an excellent one. I have heard talks similar
to this before. The purpose of these talks are to remind us to repent. We will
continue to hear them till the problem is solved which will be when Christ
returns.
What's Good for the Goose.... | 10:31 p.m. April 5, 2008
There is no excuse for abusive men, however, women currently are getting a pass
for their bad behavior. It's politically incorrect to say anything about
women's behavior. The men stuff their feelings and eat. I think that's
why so many newly married men start packing on the pounds.
Anonymous | 11:13 p.m. April 5, 2008
Come on,
This is nothing new. Just a repeated harsh warning. There are those who still don't get it.
I was chair of a conference way back in 1997 and I deliberately included two workshops on this very subject - abuse in all forms, be it verbal, physical or mental toward spouses, children and even elderly parents and relatives and yes even friends.
I deliberately placed a certain couple who have a way of getting through to the lay and put him in charge of one for men and boys only and his wife in charge of women and girls only. Then I deliberately had bishops and relief society presidents who happen to be in attendnace in the panel to assist the moderators. Those who attended the conference came away with a good impression on the evils of abuse and consquences of unreported and unrepented. So far, it is already 10 years and I have yet to see one family fall apart as the result of attending these workshops. The only ones I know of that fell apart are the ones who didn't attend.
This is nothing new. Just a repeated harsh warning. There are those who still don't get it.
I was chair of a conference way back in 1997 and I deliberately included two workshops on this very subject - abuse in all forms, be it verbal, physical or mental toward spouses, children and even elderly parents and relatives and yes even friends.
I deliberately placed a certain couple who have a way of getting through to the lay and put him in charge of one for men and boys only and his wife in charge of women and girls only. Then I deliberately had bishops and relief society presidents who happen to be in attendnace in the panel to assist the moderators. Those who attended the conference came away with a good impression on the evils of abuse and consquences of unreported and unrepented. So far, it is already 10 years and I have yet to see one family fall apart as the result of attending these workshops. The only ones I know of that fell apart are the ones who didn't attend.
Conejo | 12:09 a.m. April 6, 2008
1.) Non-Mormons commenting on a talk given to Mormons by their leaders are
obviously living boring lives to be completely engaged in events they so
vehemently deny having an interest in.
2.) The church leadership has REGULARLY given talks concerning abuse and abusive relationships. If this is the first you have heard of it I would suggest you haven't been paying attention.
3.) Religious counseling does not preclude anyone from going to professional counseling. It is not an either/or dilemma.
4.) Church authorities are to contact law enforcement when the situation dictates. They also counsel the offender to tell law enforcement what has happened. There is NO FORGIVENESS for the person who is unwilling to confess their sin.
2.) The church leadership has REGULARLY given talks concerning abuse and abusive relationships. If this is the first you have heard of it I would suggest you haven't been paying attention.
3.) Religious counseling does not preclude anyone from going to professional counseling. It is not an either/or dilemma.
4.) Church authorities are to contact law enforcement when the situation dictates. They also counsel the offender to tell law enforcement what has happened. There is NO FORGIVENESS for the person who is unwilling to confess their sin.
Martha- | 2:52 a.m. April 6, 2008
Jesus knows- even if no one else will accept it.
Glad to see you doing so well!
Glad to see you doing so well!
CONEHEAD THE BARBARIAN | 4:43 a.m. April 6, 2008
ah but some of the double standards apply so often..an example was a person who
was a state trooper- bishop was given a one year probation- when it was revealed
he was actually quilty for sexually abusing one of his young members while in
his bishops office. it is written in the archives of the newspapers and life.
but what is questionable is the thin blue line.
Jill | 5:31 a.m. April 6, 2008
I found it surprising that anyone could find fault with Elder Scott's talk
- I couldn't. After reading all the comments I pondered the many different
responses and how easily one could be offended by some of them. I found myself
thanking Heavenly Father for this diversity within His human family....that we
have a forum here to express ourselves, and that no matter how much we may
disagree, we are all still listening. No matter our religions or reactions to
the message, we are all children of a Heavenly Father Who loves us beyond
comprehension and Who is also listening. How wonderful to know that we can pray
about these differences, know our prayers are heard, and despite the
differences, love each other.
Vic | 5:57 a.m. April 6, 2008
To Rev. Gonzales,
The problem with your assertion is that, at least according to FBI intervention training, child sex abuse is uniformly distributed independent of ANY demographic - economic, religious, or ethnic.
The desire to dominate is a basic evolutionary human motivation. It is a natural urge in man. Our spiritual growth as individuals can be measured by the degree to which we abandon evolutionary motivations and turn instead to the Love of God.
Mormons have been teaching this all along.
The problem with your assertion is that, at least according to FBI intervention training, child sex abuse is uniformly distributed independent of ANY demographic - economic, religious, or ethnic.
The desire to dominate is a basic evolutionary human motivation. It is a natural urge in man. Our spiritual growth as individuals can be measured by the degree to which we abandon evolutionary motivations and turn instead to the Love of God.
Mormons have been teaching this all along.
David Pickup | 7:32 a.m. April 6, 2008
The main thrust of Elder Scott's address was to assist victims of abuse in
the healing process. As a trial lawyer who has prosecuted many sex offenders and
dealt with many cases of child pornography I have found that victims often still
love abusers who are family members and do not want them to suffer, rather they
want, more than anything else, for the abuser to admit what they have done and
admit that it was wrong. Many of these victims also feel guilty that they are
responsible in some way for what took place and are confused about their
feelings. I know also that abuse can have effects lasting long into adulthood.
Help with the healing process, as offered by Elder Scott, is to be welcomed, as
is his stark warning that satan will expose and abandon the perpetrator.
wallyworld | 7:37 a.m. April 6, 2008
Frist off, To all the so called "anonymous's" out there why
don't you come up with a original screen name so the other readers will
know who someone else is quoating or responding to? You don't even have to
use your real name, I don't!
Second, to all the Mormon hater's be thankful that the Deseret News is open minded enough to post your comments either in favor or aganist the Church and it's leaders.
That should show you that the Church(which happens to own Deseret News)does not "think" for us(which is frequently suggested)or even you(like you would listen anyway).
As for the "talk" I think that more Church leaders (other faiths enclueded) should speak out about this issue more often, instead of only talking about it at confernce, behind closed doors or on occasion. When this type of abuse happens everyone involed suffers, but I believe the person who is abused suffers the most.
Second, to all the Mormon hater's be thankful that the Deseret News is open minded enough to post your comments either in favor or aganist the Church and it's leaders.
That should show you that the Church(which happens to own Deseret News)does not "think" for us(which is frequently suggested)or even you(like you would listen anyway).
As for the "talk" I think that more Church leaders (other faiths enclueded) should speak out about this issue more often, instead of only talking about it at confernce, behind closed doors or on occasion. When this type of abuse happens everyone involed suffers, but I believe the person who is abused suffers the most.
LDS Woman | 7:44 a.m. April 6, 2008
Rev. Gonzales, I've got three brothers, 3 brothers-in-law, a husband, and
a father who want to know where these "weaker" subservient mormon
women are. The women in their lives simply could not fit that description if
they tried. We walk and serve side by side. If you want a lesson in strength
come join us in Young Womens, or Relief Society we'll show you how powerful
we are!
Caroline | 8:28 a.m. April 6, 2008
I am grateful to Elder Scott for taking this difficult task of warning the
abusers. I commend his loving but firm advice to everyone to stay clean in
thoughts, words and actions. Throughout history one can read that controlling
others is unrighteous in every way and will be dealt with severely but the thing
that I love most is Elder Scott's assurance of the Lord's promise of
forgiveness and love to everyone including the abuser.
Running Fish | 9:13 a.m. April 6, 2008
I was pleased to hear Elder Scott's message. He has been talking about the
tragedy of abuse for years, but this talk was especially powerful.
I do hope that as we continue to confront abuse that we will not neglect the infrequent, but devastating, problem of ecclesiastical abuse. In our faith members have little recourse when bishops or stake presidents themselves are the ones engaged in abuse. We do not have a mechanism to call them to account, especially when the abuse is emotional and is hard to prove.
Virtually every church leader I have had has been an exceptional human being, but occasionally they seem more interested in domination than in service. All kinds of techniques can be used to coerce and intimidate, even if what is desired is contrary to the counsel of general leadership. When this happens, the damage is real and faithful members feel that they have been deeply betrayed. Too many become inactive or leave the faith completely. Can we address ecclesiastical abuse in an open manner too?
I do hope that as we continue to confront abuse that we will not neglect the infrequent, but devastating, problem of ecclesiastical abuse. In our faith members have little recourse when bishops or stake presidents themselves are the ones engaged in abuse. We do not have a mechanism to call them to account, especially when the abuse is emotional and is hard to prove.
Virtually every church leader I have had has been an exceptional human being, but occasionally they seem more interested in domination than in service. All kinds of techniques can be used to coerce and intimidate, even if what is desired is contrary to the counsel of general leadership. When this happens, the damage is real and faithful members feel that they have been deeply betrayed. Too many become inactive or leave the faith completely. Can we address ecclesiastical abuse in an open manner too?
Janis | 2:08 p.m. April 6, 2008
While I am sure there are those that think they know more than Elder Scott about
offenses to God, I can assure them that having been raised in the LDS church
neither my father or any other man who held a position in the church ever
exercised controlling and overbearing behavior without reprimand. It is
considered an abuse. I HAVE hear church leaders stand up and request that it be
the father that takes a child out of a meeting if need be so the mother can
listen to what is being said.
It is interesting to me how many other church leaders sit and watch our programs and read our materials so they can find fault with what is said, sometimes (often thank goodness), they use the same material in their own congregations while denouncing our faith. It's O.K. though, we get members from their congregations who come to investigate how we could possibly believe the distortions presented to them. When the whole truth is explained, they sometimes lose faith in their religious leaders and come to us. As far as sex being dirty, can you not see how many children we have? We are a healthy lot!
It is interesting to me how many other church leaders sit and watch our programs and read our materials so they can find fault with what is said, sometimes (often thank goodness), they use the same material in their own congregations while denouncing our faith. It's O.K. though, we get members from their congregations who come to investigate how we could possibly believe the distortions presented to them. When the whole truth is explained, they sometimes lose faith in their religious leaders and come to us. As far as sex being dirty, can you not see how many children we have? We are a healthy lot!
To Rev. Gonzales | 8:28 p.m. April 6, 2008
I disagree with your opinion about the LDS approach to sexuality. Within LDS
doctrine, sexuality is NOT "dirty", unhealthy, or a "necessary
evil". I have been a practicing Latter-day Saint for 32 years and I have
never heard sexuality described as unhealthy, dirty, or a necessary evil.
LDS typically view sexual intimacy between a married man and woman as a beautiful thing.
LDS typically view sexual intimacy between a married man and woman as a beautiful thing.
no stranger | 9:53 p.m. April 6, 2008
As a person who was molested by my father, I feel qualified to address this
issue.
Elder Scott understands that perpetrators often hide behind a mask of piety or other respectablity; they are often seen as good citizens, etc.. It isn't easy to detect and stop them.
It's also true that some people are falsely accused.
How real predators love to trot that one out in their protestations of innocence!
Elder Scott's plea to come forward and get help is right on the mark. Unfortuanately, many will never do so and continue to victimize more children, causing untold grief and misery.
My father, who also went after my sister, never confessed. He died with a lie in his heart.
Abuse of all sorts is most often about control, and includes manipulation, intimidation, and other mind-control tactics to keep the crime secret and ongoing.
Abusers are lying to themselves and everyone else.
Abuse is a physical crime but it's also a spiritual issue.
For ELder Scott to address these things in his blunt but loving way may save children.
It's easy to armchair what someone says and find fault in the way they did it. But he was right.
Elder Scott understands that perpetrators often hide behind a mask of piety or other respectablity; they are often seen as good citizens, etc.. It isn't easy to detect and stop them.
It's also true that some people are falsely accused.
How real predators love to trot that one out in their protestations of innocence!
Elder Scott's plea to come forward and get help is right on the mark. Unfortuanately, many will never do so and continue to victimize more children, causing untold grief and misery.
My father, who also went after my sister, never confessed. He died with a lie in his heart.
Abuse of all sorts is most often about control, and includes manipulation, intimidation, and other mind-control tactics to keep the crime secret and ongoing.
Abusers are lying to themselves and everyone else.
Abuse is a physical crime but it's also a spiritual issue.
For ELder Scott to address these things in his blunt but loving way may save children.
It's easy to armchair what someone says and find fault in the way they did it. But he was right.
John | 10:35 p.m. April 6, 2008
I am very sad, that a subject about something as horrible as child abuse has
degenerated into name calling and anti-religous retoric. I am especially ashamed
that member of my church are invovled in the name calling. Abuse is a very
serious issue and the church has every right to talk about it to its members and
the world at large. Abuse is evil and those who commit it are evil. But it is
wonderful to know that Jesus Christ loves all of us, abuser and victim alike.
Let us learn from his example and at least be civilised to one another.
Handle | 7:18 a.m. April 7, 2008
the truth or it will handle you! Labeling people is part of the culture!
Thank you Elder Scott | 8:28 a.m. April 7, 2008
We love you. What a powerful conference. All things can be debated, but no-one
can argue what God has witnessed to me. What greater witness than from God? I
pray those who have been affected by the evil's of abuse will receive the
strength and courage to find help from others and their Father in Heaven. I
have, and I am whole again.
Official Church Statement | 12:54 p.m. April 7, 2008
Excerpts from the LDS Newsroom on the official LDS.org site:
"The Church .... has a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to child abusers. When abuse is suspected, the Church directs its members to first contact the legal authorities and then their local bishop for counseling and support. The Church cooperates fully with law enforcement in investigating incidents of child abuse and bringing perpetrators to justice."
"Members of the Church found guilty of child abuse are also subject to the laws of God."
"Convicted child abusers are excommunicated, the highest possible discipline our Church can impose. Excommunicated members cannot take part in Church meetings or hold responsibilities of any kind within the congregation."
Child abusers who have paid the legal price for their crimes and gone through a rigorous repentance process can become members again, but they can never again, in their lifetime, serve in any capacity that would put them in direct contact with children.
"Protection of the family is a first principle of the Church."
If individual Bishops or Stake Presidents do not follow this instruction, they are wrong and need to be corrected by higher authorities.
"The Church .... has a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to child abusers. When abuse is suspected, the Church directs its members to first contact the legal authorities and then their local bishop for counseling and support. The Church cooperates fully with law enforcement in investigating incidents of child abuse and bringing perpetrators to justice."
"Members of the Church found guilty of child abuse are also subject to the laws of God."
"Convicted child abusers are excommunicated, the highest possible discipline our Church can impose. Excommunicated members cannot take part in Church meetings or hold responsibilities of any kind within the congregation."
Child abusers who have paid the legal price for their crimes and gone through a rigorous repentance process can become members again, but they can never again, in their lifetime, serve in any capacity that would put them in direct contact with children.
"Protection of the family is a first principle of the Church."
If individual Bishops or Stake Presidents do not follow this instruction, they are wrong and need to be corrected by higher authorities.
brickhouse | 1:40 p.m. April 7, 2008
Kudos to the mormon church leader for addressing this issue. Too bad that some
of the anti-mormons on here cannot see that this declaration is a postive.
Hopefully the Utah State Legislature will draft and inact laws that keep these
losers in prison for life. They have NO business in the community. They have
proven themselves to be fit for prison and nothing else.
Protecting the children | 4:28 p.m. April 7, 2008
Again, from the LDS Newsroom site on LDS.org:
Since 1995 the Church has placed a confidential annotation on the membership record of members who previously abused children. These records follow them to any congregation where they move, thereby alerting bishops not to place them in situations with children. As far as we know, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was the first religious institution to create such a tracking mechanism. We hold the family sacred and protect its children. This explains why the Church is one of the few denominations that imposes formal ecclesiastical discipline on mere members (as opposed to official clergy) for sexually abusive conduct.
Since 1995 the Church has placed a confidential annotation on the membership record of members who previously abused children. These records follow them to any congregation where they move, thereby alerting bishops not to place them in situations with children. As far as we know, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was the first religious institution to create such a tracking mechanism. We hold the family sacred and protect its children. This explains why the Church is one of the few denominations that imposes formal ecclesiastical discipline on mere members (as opposed to official clergy) for sexually abusive conduct.
Correcting information | 4:38 p.m. April 7, 2008
There were comments made about the Church leaders not addressing this issue
early enough.
This is not so:
Since 1976, more than 50 news and magazine articles have appeared in Church publications condemning child abuse or educating members about it. Church leaders have spoken out on the subject more than 30 times at Church worldwide conferences. Child abuse is the subject of a regular lesson taught during Sunday meetings.
The Church has never covered up this matter, and takes it very seriously. Some lay leaders may not react appropriately but it is not for a lack of available help and information. Legal authorities need to be contacted by the victim or victim's family, and a Bishop is also obligated to report abuse. The main focus of a local lay leader is to give spiritual support and counsel, and he also has the option to refer to professional counselors, at no cost to the victim if they have no means to pay.
This is not so:
Since 1976, more than 50 news and magazine articles have appeared in Church publications condemning child abuse or educating members about it. Church leaders have spoken out on the subject more than 30 times at Church worldwide conferences. Child abuse is the subject of a regular lesson taught during Sunday meetings.
The Church has never covered up this matter, and takes it very seriously. Some lay leaders may not react appropriately but it is not for a lack of available help and information. Legal authorities need to be contacted by the victim or victim's family, and a Bishop is also obligated to report abuse. The main focus of a local lay leader is to give spiritual support and counsel, and he also has the option to refer to professional counselors, at no cost to the victim if they have no means to pay.
Issue been addressed many times | 4:59 p.m. April 7, 2008
Since 1976, more than 50 news and magazine articles have appeared in Church
publications condemning child abuse or educating members about it. Church
leaders have spoken out on the subject more than 30 times at Church worldwide
conferences. Child abuse is the subject of a regular lesson taught during Sunday
meetings.
Bishops need to report abuse! | 9:31 p.m. April 7, 2008
No Justice,
Continue your fight.
I agree there is too much cover up in the church about abuse. All of the perpetrators should be excommunicated and spend some quality time in the state pen. They will learn about justice from their fellow inmates.
Hiding abuse is just as bad as being the abuser. Shame on anyone trying to cover up abuse of any kind.
A concerned mother
Continue your fight.
I agree there is too much cover up in the church about abuse. All of the perpetrators should be excommunicated and spend some quality time in the state pen. They will learn about justice from their fellow inmates.
Hiding abuse is just as bad as being the abuser. Shame on anyone trying to cover up abuse of any kind.
A concerned mother
Anonymous | 12:36 p.m. April 9, 2008
If the Church is going to appoint "lay", untrained, incompetent
Bishops, and those Bishops are going to handle things inappropriately, then the
Church bears the responsibility.
Bishops are official representatives of the Church. All these people who have been abused have grounds for a class-action suit against the Church.
I think it is about time they did exactly that.
Bishops are official representatives of the Church. All these people who have been abused have grounds for a class-action suit against the Church.
I think it is about time they did exactly that.
Mike H | 4:05 p.m. April 9, 2008
Re: Anonymous @ 12:36 p. m.
I was abused by my father and did go to a bishop and he followed the process outlined by the church. He may have been a "lay" leader (untrained), but the rules are very well documented. If a bishop chooses not to follow them then they are the ones that should be held responsible for their own stupidity and ingnorance not the church.
I think the talk was important and addressed some real issues that I and my fellow Mormons are well aware of. I don't bury myself away from the world and the fact the a church leader is talking about it and talking to people he assists in leading seems more than appropiate and important. His words certainly are not the only voices out there talking.
I was abused by my father and did go to a bishop and he followed the process outlined by the church. He may have been a "lay" leader (untrained), but the rules are very well documented. If a bishop chooses not to follow them then they are the ones that should be held responsible for their own stupidity and ingnorance not the church.
I think the talk was important and addressed some real issues that I and my fellow Mormons are well aware of. I don't bury myself away from the world and the fact the a church leader is talking about it and talking to people he assists in leading seems more than appropiate and important. His words certainly are not the only voices out there talking.
bhparkman | 4:42 p.m. April 9, 2008
My Bishop has told me this for years.
He repeatedly said that sooner or later, "The books must balance." That I will have rest and be justified.
Brother Scott's words were necessary for a conference talk today, but local leaders and fathers should had repeated this many times previously and I'm sure they did.
He repeatedly said that sooner or later, "The books must balance." That I will have rest and be justified.
Brother Scott's words were necessary for a conference talk today, but local leaders and fathers should had repeated this many times previously and I'm sure they did.
Saddened | 4:39 p.m. April 11, 2008
Can we not all just appreciate that good people are trying to stop "bad
things" that are going on in the world?? Regardless of our different
"faiths", can we not all join together and try to change any bad that
we possibly can? Whether you like the "Mormon" who gave the adress is
not the point. He is trying to help others and discuss a very important issue.
Please do not knock the Mormon faith. They are good people, trying to do good
things. They do not view women as lesser people nor do they feel that they are
of more "worth" than anyone else. C'mon.. let's all do some
good.
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