Deseret News | Reader comments: LDS leader blasts abuse

Reader comments
LDS leader blasts abuse

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Tom | 4:36 p.m. April 5, 2008

The church really did an awesome thing by having Elder Scott give this talk. My respect for the church as an organization has increased ten-fold.

Anne | 4:47 p.m. April 5, 2008

What a wonderful talk! Elder Scott teaches this topic with such sensitivty. It is possible to recover from this abuse but it is sometimes a lengthy process.

Elder Scott's advice to watch our children for abrupt changes in behavior and to teach them about safety was especially important.

Anonymous | 4:56 p.m. April 5, 2008

C'mon, this is common sense. Scott told us nothing that we haven't been told over and over by psychologists, school teachers, counselors, and parenting experts.

Comments continue below

RI Reader | 5:15 p.m. April 5, 2008

To Anonymous:

Not everything he said was common sense known to all. The part I liked was when he said that if you are guilty of being an abuser, then you will be found out. Satan will identify you then abandon you. Now THAT is powerful.

There was as much about coming clean as an abuser and repenting as there was about trusting the healing power of the Savior for the abused. Very balanced. Very well said. The Savior does not abondan anyone.

What a wonderful message spoken by an Apostle.

Anonymous | 5:18 p.m. April 5, 2008

An excellent talk and unfortunately very timely. However a thought came to me about those who are falsely accused. It is happening locally. Hypnotherapy and false, planted memories. It was in the paper recently and a social worker is being investigated. The police gave her false information that then showed up in the testimony of her child clients. The only way that could have happened is if she put it in their minds. It is a shame because the children really believe it happened but it didn't. Satan will stop at nothing to cause misery. Misery for those abused and misery for those falsely accused of it.

Indiana | 5:19 p.m. April 5, 2008

anonymous,

Yes, much of this may have been info we are aware. But not everyone is and believe it or not, there are still people out there that need help healing and a righteous Priesthood holder, an Apostle of the Saviour is a great instrument in the Lord's hand for that purpose. He is a great man. His talk will make a difference to many people,old and young who have been affected by these circumstances on the one end or the other. There is the balm of Gilead that the gospel offers. I hope you actually watched, perhaps a loved one needs the help of the righteous priesthood. Blesings on your head...

Anony | 5:20 p.m. April 5, 2008

Common sense is not a term usually associated with abuse cases. Everything about it is insane. Elder Scott's counsel was timely and appropriate for this growing problem in our society reminding all concerned what the realities of abuse are for those concerned.

Utahnin NC | 5:24 p.m. April 5, 2008

To Anonymous...C'mon sign your name! Are you that fearful for your life or just not willing to own your own words? Sounds like a cowards way out. I believe you would find fault with anything the church said or represented, regadless of its value. In addition, find me any statement uttered by anyone that has not been made by someone else. Originality is a rare commodity my friend, even for church leaders. The real courage is someone willing to take the bully pulpit and make a statement regardless of what people have to say. Right doesn't change just because someone representing an insitiution you disapprove of says says it.

Anonymous | 5:31 p.m. April 5, 2008

Yes, what Elder Scott said may be common sense. But because HE said it, it makes everyone oooh and aawh, like it is some special revelation from God.

What a joke you people are. You have no more insights into life than anyone else. You are no happier than anyone else (and if the anti-depressant consumption is any clue, you are much LESS happy!).

You all pretend to be so spiritual, and you pretend to be "in tune with the spirit", but you are deluding yourselves. You all are just full of pop psychology dressed in protestant priests' robes.

Rising Tide | 5:27 p.m. April 5, 2008

I was particularly struck by his simple declarative about this problem being a "rising tide." I've wondered whether there is more abuse happening now, or whether we are simply more aware of it. These words for an Apostle and Prophet lead me to believe that while awareness is certainly increasing, there is also an increase in the amount of abuse. Which is very troubling.

What is happening in society that abuse would be increasing even as awareness of, precautions against, and punishment and treatment for abuser and abused, respectively, are all increasing? What is going on that in the face of all this, the amount of abuse is also increasing?

I also agree with "Anonymous at 5:18" that we must be careful not to falsely accuse the innocent, nor believe that false accusations never happen. We are certainly well advised to avoid any situation where a false accusation could be made.

On False Reporting: | 5:35 p.m. April 5, 2008

Anonymous, you are right, unfortunately, there are instances of false reporting. Elder Scott addressed the role of Satan in all areas of abuse--this is one. He also mentioned how important it is that we rely on the spirit to guide us in every step of the process. There are ways to detect false reporting. It is very important that you seek help through reputable and trained therapists--most do not use hypnotherapy.

Reality | 5:39 p.m. April 5, 2008

Sexual abuse of children has nothing to do with Satan or "the Saviour". Sexual abuse has nothing to do with religion or lack of religion. It has everything to do with humans acting in illegal and unethical ways for which they should be brought to justice under the appropriate criminal laws. The children in these communities need professional help and therapy and a chance to see that there is a life outside of the control of these 'righteous' priests who condoned and, in some cases, conducted the abuse.

It's time to stop seeing crimes in religious terms and start demanding accountability in human terms.

massachusetts transplant | 5:51 p.m. April 5, 2008

give it a break "anonymous" someone is addressing
a very serious subject, perhaps the most serious of our time and clearly warning those evil people that somewhere, somehow, they will be called for their actions and you dare find fault? as a foster parent, and teacher in a school for children who have suffered this kind of abuse (among others) I
am very glad that Elder Scott has drawn a clear line
in the sand on the topic, what's YOUR backgound or experence to issue such jaded comments. I stongly suggest you find some form of psychologial treatment!

Recovering addict | 5:58 p.m. April 5, 2008

There is a rising tide of sexual abuse, and it is directly relate to the proliferation of pornography in our society. I am a recovering porn addict and I can tell you this, pornography desensitizes the individual and slowly degrades their reasoning ability and leads them to do more and more sexually degrading things that they normally would have been repulsed by before they started using pornography. Iï¿½m lucky I got help before I did anything really stupid like sexual abuse.

Pornography is not victimless; it affects everyone around you, and destroys your life faster then any drug and has far longer ramifications.

Anonymous | 5:58 p.m. April 5, 2008

Of course, abuse wasn't as important, wasn't as big a deal, until a MORMON APOSTLE "blasted" it!

Mormons wait around on their backsides for their leaders to command them. Mormons can't think for themselves, so they need to be told that abuse is a problem.

Where have you people been? Get your heads out of the scriptures long enough to look around and see what is going on around you! Then you wouldn't need an old man to tell you that abuse is a problem!

Wake up!

Old Joe | 6:08 p.m. April 5, 2008

To Reality:

I'm surprised the Deserted news actually posted what you wrote.
And I agree with you 100%.

Re: Anonymous | 6:33 p.m. April 5, 2008

What kind of articles do you expect to read in the Deseret News? I don't understand people like you who have nothing better to do than spend hours reading articles for the soul purpose of having material to mock other people's beliefs. Go do something productive with your life. It's terrible an "old man" would counsel a bunch of Mormons on subjects such as this. I get my head out of my scriptures as soon as you get yours out of you know where.

Now what about | 6:28 p.m. April 5, 2008

those shameful adoptions of the Samoan people? I know of some that went on the mormon indian placement program..maybe george was one of the ones who got abused too!

Andrew | 6:36 p.m. April 5, 2008

Here is how the timeline works for Apostles like Elder Scott to get a "revelation" - sociologists and politicians begin to take notice of an issue. Then about 5 years later, the issue becomes important in the public eye. Then another 5 years later, a few enlightened LDS people start having the guts to raise the issue in their local wards and stakes. Then another 5 years later, some of these enlightened people are called into leadership positions where they have the ear of a general authority. Then another 5 years, and the issue finally gets into a talk by an apostle in General Conference.

That is the latency: LDS leaders tend to be about 20 years behind everyone else with their talks.

UtahninNC | 6:51 p.m. April 5, 2008

Cheeeez. Turning this issue into a blasting of Mormons and the Deseret News is pathetic. It is obvious your agenda is to attach the Mormons and the Deseret News, not take a stand against abuse. Sad, so very sad my friend. Then again if you are trying to agitate for the sake of irritation please choose another subject. For me any person or institution that stands against abuse is worthy of some respect. Then again, you demonstate your ignorance if you believe this is the first time the Mormons have talked, acted, or have a policy on abuse. If ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest person in the world. Cheeeez!

Re: Andrew | 6:53 p.m. April 5, 2008

Apostles don't claim everything they say is a "revelation". These issues are nothing new when they are addressed in conference but the bigger issue is why it bothers you so much. Here is Andrew's timeline. He waits for general conference every 6 months. He then reads the D-News on-line and attempts to think of something clever to say. He then posts his clever comments on the internet. Meanwhile, most people with a life are out enjoying their Saturday night.

Anonymous | 6:50 p.m. April 5, 2008

When I was inactive for five years, I saw things so differently from the way I did when I was active and the way I see things now. I was bitter, negative, and unknowingly unhappy. Now, I know that the church is amazing, that it is happiness, that it is true. These negative comments are just people who don't understand and are lost. It doesn't make me angry, just sad. It will all become clear one day for everyone. Until then, we are all ladies and gentlemen who love one another, who love our enemies, and are not here to judge anyone. In reference to the article on Elder Scott's talk in conference, I didn't get to hear it, but from what I've read about it, it sounds like messages that need to be heard. I would like to add that there are so many things that I've heard hundreds of times but it wasn't until say the 953rd time that I actually listened. Wouldn't you agree?

To anonymous | 6:53 p.m. April 5, 2008

Looks like you're in need of some good pop psychology, words from a psychologist or a good counselor, and other experts. You criticize the LDS for looking to their leaders to command them; seems like you need to get off your backside and find something more useful to do than critize those trying to uplift and encourage others. Oh, and you might benefit from some anti-depressants yourself. Where did all of this anger come from anyway? Seems like these particular words came a little close to home for you, or do you just think like the other anti-Mormon non-thinkers out there and criticize any and everything coming from the Mormon church?

Utahnin NC | 7:06 p.m. April 5, 2008

And the beat goes on. Abuse is not the issue rather a personal dislike of a religion. Sad...so sad. NO that's not right. Childish...so childish!

Re: Anonymous | 6:59 p.m. April 5, 2008

I agree w/ the 6:33 post. You are so transparent, Anonymous. Your hatred shines thru. If you are not a member then why are you so worried about what is said. This was a leader of our faith speaking bluntly to his people that these types of actions are not only illegal, they are condemmed by God and that even if you slide thru life undetected by the law, you will still pay a dear price. That's what church leaders of ALL religions do. They councel and remind their people of the teachings of God. And sometimes they publicly condemn actions that are of such great importance. And this is a growing epidemic. Why would you lash out at ANYONE who took a strong stance against this terrible evil that is so common today, regardless of it's originality? Your thoughts are not original either. You're just another hater. Nobody cares

FaithNoMo | 7:00 p.m. April 5, 2008

Hey Utahnin NC, is your sign on name any less Anonymous? Are you afraid for your life? I thought it was funny that you attack someone for not using their name, while you are doing the same thing.
I am too, obviously, but I'm not attacking you for doing the same thing.
What what Scott said ground breaking? No. Toot the whistle though.

Ida | 7:09 p.m. April 5, 2008

Reality is exactly right. The biggest blinders Mormons have is their faith. They moralize on everything as it pertains to their belief in their superiority. With those blinders on, they see everything as the power of satan or the power of god locked in eternal battle. What nonsense!

Abuse is the result of individuals losing touch with reality. These religious ideas just contribute to people losing touch with reality and believing in fairy stories instead.

Abuse is a crime and needs to be punished accordingly. We need to listen to political leaders and scientists with expertise in this area rather than to preachers such as Elder Scott who has no expertise in this area, and who uses it as a platform for preaching his sales pitch to people.

Californian | 7:20 p.m. April 5, 2008

I was glad Elder Scott addressed this topic, as well as sad that the need existed for him to do so. Yes, something like this could be going on in my ward, and that does trouble me.

"Anonymous" is one of those poor sad souls who is determined to be negative and miserable. He/she has probably complained for years that Church leaders weren't addressing child abuse enough--clear evidence that we were "sweeping it under the rug." Now he/she is b****ing about an apostle bringing it up in conference. There is no satisfying the anti-Mormon bigots; they will find fault with whatever the Church does. "Anonymous" needs to crawl back down to the Tribune blogs where the company is more compatible.

Timeline: From China | 7:21 p.m. April 5, 2008

Elder Scott gave an enlightened talk on this very subject in April 1992 entitled, ï¿½Healing the Tragic Scars of Abuse.ï¿½

Moreover, President Hinckley spoke to the issue in November 1985, saying, "Sexual abuse of children on the part of fathers, or anyone else, has long been a cause of excommunication from the Church. No man who has been ordained to the priesthood of God can with impunity indulge in either spouse or child abuse. Such activity becomes an immediate repudiation of his right to hold and exercise the priesthood and to retain membership in the Church."

Unfortunately, being human, we tend to learn very slowly. An invitation to do better is always welcome.

Dear Ida | 7:26 p.m. April 5, 2008

Surely you don't mean that our political leaders and scientists are themselves experts in sexual abuse? I'm so grateful that Elder Scott has no expertise in this area--he is however, an expert in right vs. wrong.

Cada | 7:23 p.m. April 5, 2008

Wow! Look at how "Christian" all the self-righteous Mormons are!? Someone disagrees with them, and the Mormons call them all kind of horrible names!

You will not open people's hearts like that!

Californian | 7:32 p.m. April 5, 2008

Oh, yeah, let's all tune in to Governor Spitzer, Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, the mayor of San Francisco who betrayed one of his buds with the friend's wife who was on the mayor's staff, the New Jersey governor with his same-sex adulterous affair, and the lady Senator's husband who admitted hiring a $150 hooker (wow, I guess the New York statehouse pays better than the U.S. Senate).

I can't wait to hear their wise and inspired counsel. But I doubt I'll live long enough for them to have time to come up with anything intelligent.

Meanwhile, we thank thee, O God for our prophets and the perspective that bring to all kinds of troubling social issues.

Anonymous | 7:45 p.m. April 5, 2008

To Cada: Read Anonymous 6:50. Mormons are people, Jews are people, Muslims are people, etc. nobody is perfect. I'm not. Not even close. Some people's trial in life is being self-righteous or judgemental. No, that's not right, but it could be worse. That's why I originally left the church. I'm back now, but I've realized its not about them. Its about me and what makes me happy, what helps me to be a better person. I don't let them affect me anymore. If someone thinks that because I'm a Mormon than that makes me self-righteous or judgemental, I'm sorry, I really try not to be like that. I like to think that unless you've walked in my shoes or I've walked in yours, your entire life, then don't judge, just love, or if its too hard to love, then focus on something else.

Reality | 7:39 p.m. April 5, 2008

Why didn't Elder Scott advise his congregation to report all suspected or known child abuse (sexual or otherwise) to law enforcement and social services? Does he really think these matters should be handled within the church?

Why is Elder Scott so focused on forgiveness for the abusers? Does he think forgiveness should come before or after prison time?

The story of the girl who forgives her 'severely abusive' father but worries that he doesn't forgive himself is patently false. While fairy tales often end this way, real life doesn't.

LDS in Colorado | 7:53 p.m. April 5, 2008

We seem to be a little overreactive to critisism from people outside of our faith. Elder Scott's remarks were important. He is focused on a relevant danger in the world. There is nothing to hide. LDS leaders have spoken out for over 40 years on this subject. The gospel message is about love. The Savior taught us to watch over, pray for and protect those who can't protect themselves. He expects us to protect and respect our families. I am thankful that Elder Scott was willing to teach in a very public setting about a subject that is often spoken of in hushed tones. I hope that those who have had their lives hurt by abuse will understand that they don't stand alone. There is help and it can be effectively begun by a visit to a loving Bishop who will get involved and help the victim and work to stop the abuser.

Name Withheld | 8:02 p.m. April 5, 2008

To LDS in Colorado,

The spirit of your comment is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

I have to disagree on one point, however, and that is in going to your Bishop. I have had personal experience with being abused, and going to the bishop was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my life!

Bishops sometimes mean well, but they are not properly trained to handle these difficulties. Also, they are too connected with other adults in the Ward to be able to handle things impartially. The Bishops I went to (two of them) both made things worse instead of better.

My recommendation (again, based on personal experience) is to get professional help and law enforcement involved as quickly as possible.

Reality | 8:14 p.m. April 5, 2008

Name Withheld,

Your Bishops were in violation of Utah law. Utah's Child Abuse Reporting Law states:

(3) (a) When a clergyman or priest receives information about abuse or neglect from any
source other than confession of the perpetrator, he is required to give notification on the basis of that information even though he may have also received a report of abuse or neglect from the confession of the perpetrator.

(b) Exemption of notification requirements for a clergyman or priest does not exempt a clergyman or priest from any other efforts required by law to prevent further abuse or neglect by the perpetrator.

The Bishops need to follow state laws just like the rest of us. Until they can follow the actual written legal code, they have no credibility telling us about the law of God.

Brian Utley | 8:15 p.m. April 5, 2008

Reality, you were doing fine until you got to that last part about things being "patently false." In fact, that's the way things really do work...when someone's conscience catches up with him...which happens now and then as people get older...and life has kicked them enough times in the shins. It happened to me that way. That disproves your negative.

Chip | 8:12 p.m. April 5, 2008

Looks like the anti-Mormons have a new project - trolling the comments section of the Des News and showing what is in their hearts.

Welcome, folks. Hope you are having a nice evening.

It amazes me that you so readily and harshly criticize something that you could not create, could not lead successfully, and could not replicate. That takes a certain kind of arrogance that is hard to fathom.

Now, back to the meaningful discussion. Elder Scott is amazing. Lifting and building, not burning and destroying, like some we have just read.

onlythe truth | 8:35 p.m. April 5, 2008

Anything that can be done by the LDS Church to prevent child or spouse abuse and give support to those who are suffering should be commended.

Reality | 8:40 p.m. April 5, 2008

It's pretty cut and dry--much like the way you like to think. Abuse is a lack of love. A lack of love is hate. Hate is a lack of God and a strong influence of the devil. It has everything to do with faith because faith directs action. Anyone who disagrees with what Scott said clearly is a supporter and compliant of abuse.

Positive | 8:36 p.m. April 5, 2008

I applaud any leader who condemns the abuse of others. Whether Mormonism is "true" or not -- a matter of personal conviction and subjectivity anyway -- is not the issue here. I think the followers of the LDS church are reacting positively to the talk becuase it signals their leadership's crackdown on predators and compassion for the victims.

To Reality | 8:37 p.m. April 5, 2008

Reality, you don't have enough hard facts or advanced knowledge to be making such wild comments. You are revealing that you are acting with bad faith.

1. Anyone that knows anything about Mormon doctrine, which you obviously don't, knows that forgiveness comes after the civil penalty is paid.

2. People in prison that are Mormon are able to attent a service, but are not offered and are not able to take the sacrament.

3. Mormon Bishops do indeed follow the law, as Elder Scott's reference to the hotline touches on. The hotline for Bishops was specifically put in place to give the Bishop the requirements and law for his jurisdiction.

And, Reality, we love you. I just wanted you to know. We love you.

Re: Reality 7:39 | 8:56 p.m. April 5, 2008

I do believe that Elder Scott mentioned going to law enforcement. I don't believe the church wants to ignore any laws, and if Bishops are doing so, they should be held accountable.

Jeremy Parker | 9:12 p.m. April 5, 2008

If there isn't an absolute right and wrong, how can you assert right and wrong?

There is an absolute right and wrong and the science by which we know it is absolute religion. Few religions claim absolute truth anymore. That leaves few in the field to counsel us, and I for one am extremely thankful to those few who have dedicated their lives to the causes associated. Great talk.

Marc | 9:15 p.m. April 5, 2008

I seems everytime I read the comments on these articles related to the church they just turn into an arguement between two sides about the church, that have little to do with the original subject. It is so sad that people who live and work together and get along perfectly get on a message board and all of a sudden thier is contention and anger. I think these discussions could be much more productive if people simply imagined the way they would try to make the same point to a good friend who had the same belief and then adjust thier comments appropriately.
Enough of the "why can't we all just get along" talk, what I wanted to say is I thought it showed the depth of Elder Scotts understanding of this problem in our society when he said abuseres often hide behind piety.

no justice | 9:10 p.m. April 5, 2008

Timeline from China, odd you mention Gordon B Hinckley's address to the members talking about excommunication. I have a signed letter from Gordon B Hinckley promising to look into the case of a SELF CONFESSED (to the church) incestual man who molested his daughters and a least one grandaughter. It was reported to 3 bishops and a stake president and the man was NEVER EXCOMMUNICATED. Matter of fact, he just got off a mission with his wife. He hasn't been flagged by the church meaning he can perform callings with access to children. I recently went to the original bishop this man confessed to asking his help to reopen the case and he said, "I wish you well in your efforts." At every turn I've been stonewalled by the LDS church to see this man be brought out into the light so that he won't molest others. Nothing. It's all talk and no walk with them. And I'll leave my email for the Des News here should they maybe want to pass this on to the honorable Elder Scott. Don't go to sleep yet JM, I'm comin for ya...you murderer of children's souls...

Rev. Gonzales | 9:21 p.m. April 5, 2008

The problem with Elder Scott's sermon is that it doesn't address the real issues in abuse, including the Church's role in it. Abuse is about control, not simply about sex. The LDS Church's authoritarian culture and priesthood fosters a controlling mentality among its male members, and a corollary subservience among its female and weaker members. Additionally, the strict Puritan approach to sexuality creates a culture in which sexuality is hidden, considered "dirty" and unhealthy, a "necessary evil". Such repression and secretiveness creates conditions that are ripe for sexual abuse.

Marc | 9:18 p.m. April 5, 2008

And also I personally think the church has been appropriately dealing with abuse for a long time, but behind closed doors, in disciplinary counsels, where action is taken privately. That is just the how I view it.

Martha Beck | 9:27 p.m. April 5, 2008

I really wish this talk had been delivered 50 years ago.

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