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167 kids taken in Texas raid
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its about time | 1:29 a.m. April 5, 2008
I was wondering when they were going to crack down on this!
Anonymous | 2:07 a.m. April 5, 2008
I feel so bad for the kids, this is horrifice. I hope that everything goes well
and everyone gets back safely to their families.
Pligkid | 2:36 a.m. April 5, 2008
Please don't be bigots! If there is abuse found (I mean abuse, not
marriage) prosecute. But don't believe the bull that we (even Warren Jeffs)
sanction abuse. We DON'T!
Comments continue below
Outraged | 3:17 a.m. April 5, 2008
CPS is the most evil organization to ever exist in this America. I am sure Satan
was looking down with a smile on his face as he saw those shiny police cars
roll out of the complex with these peoples stolen children.
I highly doubt they were being abused and even if they were it is unprecedented to remove 167 children from one community because of unfound allegations. This is religious intolerance and it is bigoted and driven by prejudice at best. These actions were no more about protecting the innocent than was WACO. Unfortunately, the era of the climate is that most people looked on in glee as they heard news that this religious sect was being punished once again. To those people I say, just wait 'til it shows up at your doorstep. This is a slippery slope indeed.
I highly doubt they were being abused and even if they were it is unprecedented to remove 167 children from one community because of unfound allegations. This is religious intolerance and it is bigoted and driven by prejudice at best. These actions were no more about protecting the innocent than was WACO. Unfortunately, the era of the climate is that most people looked on in glee as they heard news that this religious sect was being punished once again. To those people I say, just wait 'til it shows up at your doorstep. This is a slippery slope indeed.
St. George Resident | 5:19 a.m. April 5, 2008
Too bad our own attorney general Mark Shurtleff doesn't have the guts to
give these kids the same protection here in Utah.
about time.. | 5:23 a.m. April 5, 2008
that some law officials decided to get those kids out of there. I really hope
they can be placed with real loving and caring families and try to have a normal
life.
John | 5:59 a.m. April 5, 2008
I'm confused. Texas law allows a 16yr old to marry with consent of a
parent, so why would a marriage between the 50yr old male and the 16yr old
female be cause for an investigation?
Also, I find it disturbing that the police blocked the roads leading to the compound and that the air space around the ranch was restricted. We should never allow the police to operate in secrecy that way. Who is responsible for preventing the media access to cover this story, and why aren't the media up in arms over it?
Also, I find it disturbing that the police blocked the roads leading to the compound and that the air space around the ranch was restricted. We should never allow the police to operate in secrecy that way. Who is responsible for preventing the media access to cover this story, and why aren't the media up in arms over it?
leroy | 6:58 a.m. April 5, 2008
I don't understand the use of the First Baptist Church buses. Why not
real, secular buses? School buses, for example.
What is the excuse for using the Baptist buses?
And please don't say because they were available or volunteered. This is a criminal action and as such the FBC buses should not have been used. The police do not have the funds to rent secular buses?
Something fishy here.
Yes, I am a Christian, but the buses should not have been from a denomination. Wrong. The buses should have been secular, school buses, etc.
What is the excuse for using the Baptist buses?
And please don't say because they were available or volunteered. This is a criminal action and as such the FBC buses should not have been used. The police do not have the funds to rent secular buses?
Something fishy here.
Yes, I am a Christian, but the buses should not have been from a denomination. Wrong. The buses should have been secular, school buses, etc.
Denise | 7:06 a.m. April 5, 2008
From every child abused in this way...... THANK YOU.
liberal larry | 7:24 a.m. April 5, 2008
Looks like the Texans aren't nearly as tolerant of plural marriage as we
are here in Utah.
James Justice | 7:31 a.m. April 5, 2008
Here it is, folks. 1953 Raid on Short Creek (modern day Colorado City, AZ and
Hildale, UT) all over again! And, like that time, it will prove once again to
be a public relations nightmare for the governments involved. Few men will be
arrested, tiny if any jail time for them, and who will suffer the most??? The
women and children who will be farmed out, forcefully and against their wills,
around the state and within 18 months, every last one of them will be back
together again with their husbands/fathers putting the pieces back together
again! Where they wanted to be all along in the first place!!!
Idiots! Power mongers! Hypocrits!
Just ONE MORE INSTANCE of RAPED BY THE STATE!!!
James Justice
Religious Freedom Fighter
Idiots! Power mongers! Hypocrits!
Just ONE MORE INSTANCE of RAPED BY THE STATE!!!
James Justice
Religious Freedom Fighter
GoodGuyGary | 7:45 a.m. April 5, 2008
What do Deseret News has to use "Fundamentalist LDS Church",
can't they use something other than "LDS"?
snickerdoodle | 7:53 a.m. April 5, 2008
I have been waiting for something like this to finally happen. The children
there are abused, hassled, made to be mature at an immature age, and filled with
silly doctrines. I am glad those children were removed. Each will have a
chance at a normal, sexually free life, free from the FLDS church.
I believe religions should be able to practice their beliefs, but inhumane treatment cannot be ignored.
I believe religions should be able to practice their beliefs, but inhumane treatment cannot be ignored.
shamrock | 8:01 a.m. April 5, 2008
why wasn't this under LDS News?
Anonymous | 8:20 a.m. April 5, 2008
Love the photo showing a First Baptist Church bus involved in the raid. The
article says the bus was "commandeered", but the Baptist angle is
appropriate.
The FLDS made a mistake by moving to Texas. Most Texans are Christian and aren't as likely to look the other way when it comes to polygamy like folks in Utah are.
The FLDS made a mistake by moving to Texas. Most Texans are Christian and aren't as likely to look the other way when it comes to polygamy like folks in Utah are.
Ed | 8:18 a.m. April 5, 2008
So who will be first to speculate on the use of Baptist church buses to
transport these kids. Hmmmmm.
Larry | 8:19 a.m. April 5, 2008
One alleged accusation of so-called "abuse", and they apparently take
all the girls from an entire religious community.
This is a completely ILLEGAL move by the US government to deny freedom of religion and persecute those that resist humanist Progressivism. These government officials will now force their
religion of Progressivism on the girls.
Note the article says they were in an "insular" community. They were insulated from the current culture. The bible plainly says do not be of the world, do not live like the world.
This is a completely ILLEGAL move by the US government to deny freedom of religion and persecute those that resist humanist Progressivism. These government officials will now force their
religion of Progressivism on the girls.
Note the article says they were in an "insular" community. They were insulated from the current culture. The bible plainly says do not be of the world, do not live like the world.
Jeremy Parker | 8:21 a.m. April 5, 2008
Open your home to foster children.
mom | 8:38 a.m. April 5, 2008
167? From a compound of 150 people total? Other news reports are stating that
52 kids were removed.
I'm glad to see Texas officials moving in and giving these kids a chance to get away from a life of brainwashing and abuse.
I'm glad to see Texas officials moving in and giving these kids a chance to get away from a life of brainwashing and abuse.
wacco II | 8:43 a.m. April 5, 2008
I'm surprised Texas didn't bring in the tanks, fire bombs, and loud
speakers like during Wacco.
Jim | 8:44 a.m. April 5, 2008
I'm sure glad there's freedom of religion in this country. Kinda
reminds me of the 1800s. At least they didn't go in this time with tanks
and kill everyone.
wwt | 8:53 a.m. April 5, 2008
Authorities in Texas got a call on Monday and had warrants issued and served by
the end of the week. The children taken out of harm's way before the
weekend.
Hey, authorities in Utah and Arizona. Get a clue!!!
Hey, authorities in Utah and Arizona. Get a clue!!!
Ben | 9:01 a.m. April 5, 2008
It has long been known, that the best way to truly break a people is to go
after their children. After the Civil War, Churches began founding Indian
Schools with the purpose of educating the "ignorant savage" on the
ways of a "civilized society." For decades after this, children were
removed from their families, often with threats or force. Anyone who knows how
this decimated the Native Americans for the next one hundred years will know
what the potential is to break these polygamous societies.
For any culture in the world, to say that their children are their future, would be to make a gross understatement. Without the next generation to replace the previous one, that culture dies.
If the Texas authorities received a call indicating the abuse of one or more kids, then investigate those particular instances, don't attack the entire community. Many of you would celebrate the demise of these people, arguing about the lost boys, and the teenage brides. I can't defend that, but I feel a sense of outrage over the deliberate attempt to smash all these families. Remember there is a God who judges us, and remember your conscience before you break these people.
For any culture in the world, to say that their children are their future, would be to make a gross understatement. Without the next generation to replace the previous one, that culture dies.
If the Texas authorities received a call indicating the abuse of one or more kids, then investigate those particular instances, don't attack the entire community. Many of you would celebrate the demise of these people, arguing about the lost boys, and the teenage brides. I can't defend that, but I feel a sense of outrage over the deliberate attempt to smash all these families. Remember there is a God who judges us, and remember your conscience before you break these people.
16 | 9:00 a.m. April 5, 2008
In Texas, it is legal to marry at 16 with parental consent.
Of course we don't know if it was a legal marriage, or if it occurred in Texas to begin with. It may have been a forced marriage. In any case, it seems pretty messed up for a 16 year old girl to be married to a 50 year old man.
I'm just curious why this is cited as a reason to go investigate. Is it standard for police in Texas to go investigate things that aren't illegal? Perhaps she was the only 16 year old to give birth in Texas?
Of course, the Texas Department of State Health Services says the 1 in 27 16 year old girls there gets pregnant. The site also states, that in Texas, a a teen give birth every 10 minutes.
The police must be pretty busy investigating all of the 16 year old girls who get pregnant.
They cite a claim from a 16 year old alleging sexual abuse. This is absolutely something to investigate; however, it isn't the first reason cited in the article.
Maybe it's the same girl? Of course you wouldn't know that from the reporting.
Of course we don't know if it was a legal marriage, or if it occurred in Texas to begin with. It may have been a forced marriage. In any case, it seems pretty messed up for a 16 year old girl to be married to a 50 year old man.
I'm just curious why this is cited as a reason to go investigate. Is it standard for police in Texas to go investigate things that aren't illegal? Perhaps she was the only 16 year old to give birth in Texas?
Of course, the Texas Department of State Health Services says the 1 in 27 16 year old girls there gets pregnant. The site also states, that in Texas, a a teen give birth every 10 minutes.
The police must be pretty busy investigating all of the 16 year old girls who get pregnant.
They cite a claim from a 16 year old alleging sexual abuse. This is absolutely something to investigate; however, it isn't the first reason cited in the article.
Maybe it's the same girl? Of course you wouldn't know that from the reporting.
Anonymous | 9:24 a.m. April 5, 2008
John, remember Waco?
The FLDS church also has a stockpile of weapons and vowed not to go down without a fight.
In the end, they did go peacfully, Thank God for that.
The FLDS church also has a stockpile of weapons and vowed not to go down without a fight.
In the end, they did go peacfully, Thank God for that.
Hmm... | 9:38 a.m. April 5, 2008
To me it is a scary thought that so many children could be taken from the one
place that they know as home. On the other hand, how does one make sure that the
kids' safety is secure?
Surely there was a better way to do this. Both sides must have come to an agreement. Hasty actions in government almost always leads to poor judgment and negative consequences. Taking a six month old baby from her mother? Give me a break!
Surely there was a better way to do this. Both sides must have come to an agreement. Hasty actions in government almost always leads to poor judgment and negative consequences. Taking a six month old baby from her mother? Give me a break!
L. G. KIRKPATRICK | 9:33 a.m. April 5, 2008
Once again DesNews' own Ben Winslow presents us with a fact-finding look at
a situation wherein he has had experience writing the facts and relating the
situation. I am appreciative to Mr. Winslow for his cogent presentation of the
facts in this developing drama, balanced with his obvious care in remaining
neutral and non-judgemental toward these people. I have followed this story from
its inception, and am impressed with Mr. Winslow's care to present and
explain both sides, as far as can be done, since we actually have no input yet
from the FLDS people, themselves. I would also like to commend the Texas Child
Protective Services for their care of the minor children, and to the residents
of the FLDS community for their cooperation with the authorities, and to the
Texas Department of Public Safety for their sensitivity to the feelings of these
folks.
kris | 9:37 a.m. April 5, 2008
hey plgkid It is abuse when a 50 year old man so called marries a 16 year
old,and has sex with her. She is underaged and as only a teenager she can't
possibly avoid her situation because the adults as carnal minded as they are,
are in charge.
"Authorities" | 9:42 a.m. April 5, 2008
I don't entirely agree with what they're doing.....
Fredd | 9:49 a.m. April 5, 2008
They shouldn't use LDS stake centers or ward houses as command posts
either. These posts are illuminating. I guess the FLDS have a lot of
sympathizers in Utah
Juan Figuroa | 9:47 a.m. April 5, 2008
D&C 121:39. Six-month-old babies torn from their mothers' arms --
because one unrelated teenager from another family altogether claimed abuse. How
is this reasonable? How is this anything other than evil?
Larryc206 | 9:47 a.m. April 5, 2008
Leroy, you say you don't understand about using Baptist buses.
If there had been a flood and people out of their homes, would you understand if the Baptist Church set up a dining room to feed the victims of the flood?
Then it should be easy to understand that the Baptist Church buses were used to protect all the boys and girls (victims) . Taking the children was not a criminal proceeding, it was a rescue. "So it is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost." Matthew 18:14
If there had been a flood and people out of their homes, would you understand if the Baptist Church set up a dining room to feed the victims of the flood?
Then it should be easy to understand that the Baptist Church buses were used to protect all the boys and girls (victims) . Taking the children was not a criminal proceeding, it was a rescue. "So it is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost." Matthew 18:14
Save the kids! | 9:49 a.m. April 5, 2008
As usual the perverted minds always make their ways onto these sites. I'm
happy that the law is investigating these law breakers... long time past due.
God help and rescue the children from these bizarre practices of brainwashing
sexual abuse. From someone who knows how twisted polygamy really is.
John Lilburne | 9:50 a.m. April 5, 2008
Sensitive issues and interesting viewpoints. It DOES seem that this
interdiction should be monitored at the Federal level. Indeed, if the
"issues" in the background of this YFZ situation are issues at all,
they should apply to those compounds in Arizona and Utah. But before the
Federales clean up, they should be required to make a good case to US citizens
as to who/why/what they are trying to protect.
Just Another | 10:18 a.m. April 5, 2008
Drive by kidnapping...what does it profit to have no Prophet..i mean what ever
happened to negotiations..? Where's the intelligence or is it some kind of
frenzy..at the expense of the most vulnerable of this group? Can't anyone
hear the wailing of the children?
eldgirl | 10:18 a.m. April 5, 2008
In a small town who had school buses out transporting their children back and
forth to school, did anyone stop to think that was the only available means for
such a large amount at that particular point and time. Please, don't turn
this into a religious fight against Christians and the world. The government
had a complaint, they acted on it and everyone can deal the best they know how.
Children need to be protected not sensationalized by the media perhaps that is
why road and airspace was denied. They don't need to be double victimized
by sight seers, media, and just plain nosy bodies. Calm down everyone and
realize everyone is hurting, children, their families and all involved. Please
recognize that this is a very touchy, sticky and in some instances no win
situation for anyone. Children have to be protected, religion has to be
respected on all sides.
Anonymous | 10:20 a.m. April 5, 2008
I don't know how anyone could say the CPS is evil when they are trying to
help children in a bad situation. Let's face it. We don't know the
whole truth so it is kinda hard to speculate either way.
Uproot this Evil | 10:23 a.m. April 5, 2008
Perhaps the only way to stop this perveted life style is to take all their kids
away.
I'm not talking about pologamy, but these people kick their sons out of the house at 12 years old to make room for the other half that isn't kick out, so all can live pologamy.
They "prophet" can and does disolve a marriage and assign the entire family to someone else.
This type of perversion has to stop.
I'm not talking about pologamy, but these people kick their sons out of the house at 12 years old to make room for the other half that isn't kick out, so all can live pologamy.
They "prophet" can and does disolve a marriage and assign the entire family to someone else.
This type of perversion has to stop.
Jake | 10:26 a.m. April 5, 2008
I am glad they raided this place,this places compunds that are secretive and
controlling are dangerous. It is a shame that it took this long to get inside
and see what is going on. These cults are dangerous and sick and need to be
investigated for crimes like this. Religion is a good thing but it can become a
problem when it is twisted.
Ray | 10:27 a.m. April 5, 2008
Yes it was 52 not 167. I am not sure where Deseret News got that number.
Anonymous | 10:31 a.m. April 5, 2008
Freedom of religion for this group is rape and conspiracy to rape. All the
parents should be prosecuted for obstruction of justice and conspiracy.
Anonymous | 10:38 a.m. April 5, 2008
Weird, I thought states like Texas approved of things like Incest.
Waco was really bad PR. So Kudos to the cops for keepin it clean this time.
Baptist buses?!?! They should have used Tractor trailers, the lack of windows would have protected them from being exposed to the outside world too soon.
The cops should work out a deal with Apple and get each of these kids an ipod and an imac (and a myspace profile) this will really help them assimilate.
Jeff Foxworthy I mean warren batty er whatever his name is should be brought to a Vet and euthanized. If you want your own private Club purchase an island and leave the country, or be more discreet about it.
God doesn�t like competition and Neither does the Government.
Waco was really bad PR. So Kudos to the cops for keepin it clean this time.
Baptist buses?!?! They should have used Tractor trailers, the lack of windows would have protected them from being exposed to the outside world too soon.
The cops should work out a deal with Apple and get each of these kids an ipod and an imac (and a myspace profile) this will really help them assimilate.
Jeff Foxworthy I mean warren batty er whatever his name is should be brought to a Vet and euthanized. If you want your own private Club purchase an island and leave the country, or be more discreet about it.
God doesn�t like competition and Neither does the Government.
Tawna | 10:39 a.m. April 5, 2008
Just because parents gave their consent does not mean that the marriages
weren't performed against the girls will. It is about time that some one
stood up for the right of children to be children and take them out of an
abusive environment.
Go Texas! | 10:48 a.m. April 5, 2008
Go Texas! We knew we could count on you to save those kids. Freedom of
religion doesn't include breaking the law and enslaving people. Freedom of
religion was never intended to be a cloak for every aberrant desire anybody ever
had.
page | 10:50 a.m. April 5, 2008
even if the Law in Texas says you can get married at 16 with your parents
consent doesn't mean that you can be forced to be married theses people are
sick 50 year old man to a 16 year old i bet she was all for that.freedom of
religion are you kidding me no wonder the men like it new wife when old one gets
old nice try flds church sick sick sick
re Anonymous | 8:20 a.m. | 10:56 a.m. April 5, 2008
You said
"Most Texans are Christian and aren't as likely to look the other way when it comes to polygamy like folks in Utah are."
Where do you think the polygamists get the idea of doing polygamy? It comes from the Bible. Many of gods great prophets lived polygamy and this is how the polygamists justify polygamy. ..... From the CHRISTIAN BIBLE.
People are always claiming to know what Christianity is all about without knowing the facts, read the Bible and see what it really says.
"Most Texans are Christian and aren't as likely to look the other way when it comes to polygamy like folks in Utah are."
Where do you think the polygamists get the idea of doing polygamy? It comes from the Bible. Many of gods great prophets lived polygamy and this is how the polygamists justify polygamy. ..... From the CHRISTIAN BIBLE.
People are always claiming to know what Christianity is all about without knowing the facts, read the Bible and see what it really says.
to LG Kirkpatrick | 11:09 a.m. April 5, 2008
Are you an American or a Soviet?
This was a step by the government to break apart a religion.
This was a step by the government to break apart a religion.
Robert | 11:13 a.m. April 5, 2008
The mormon church needs to help these people they are mormons and their
situation is not so different than what the mormons knew in Missouri.
noname | 11:14 a.m. April 5, 2008
Take them to short Creek!
hypocrite | 11:25 a.m. April 5, 2008
As I stare at the different methods of dress, hair styles and "team"
buying groups I wonder how bad can it really be. I begin to shake my head in
judgement, believing that abuse is common in the polygamist community. I have
personally known and visited with many who participate, have participated and
rejected the life style. The reality hits, the polygamist community has far
fewer mis deeds and abuse that the rest of society. The same arrogant judges who
think they know best hide many imperfections and disgusting habits. It is high
time we create a "Citizen Protection Service" to guard us from the
abuses of government. Let he/she without sin cast the first stone!
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Harry Cabluck, Associated Press
Near Eldorado, police escort buses Friday from the Fundamentalist LDS compound, which was built under the direction of polygamist leader Warren Jeffs.
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