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Gay 'agenda' targeted — Speakers in American Fork warn of dangers
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Marriage? | 3:02 p.m. April 2, 2008
Yes i do agree we can get married to the opposite sex if we choose to but you
cant get mad at us when we ruin a family when they find out we are attracted to
the same sex after having three kids. So which do you want to happen to society
the only way i see us ruining the name and values of "marraige" is if
we are forced to do it and tear the family apart. Where as if we could do it
with out the fear and the forcment then marriage still would have the same
meaning- Two people who really love eachother. Marriage after all was a
government issued certificate so it has nothing to do with religion only if you
choose to have your religion involved.
RangerGordon | 3:15 p.m. April 2, 2008
Irrational:
What a condescending tone you've adopted.
However, what makes you think gays can't have children? Lots of gays do. And why do you think children in gay families are less deserving of their families' legal recognition?
I'm sure you'll come up with something, but the fact remains it's just not up to you to say. The courts will rule in favor of gay marriage one day.
You're free to have your opinion--and you're free not to marry someone of the same sex--but the rest of the world is under no obligation to live according to your wishes.
What a condescending tone you've adopted.
However, what makes you think gays can't have children? Lots of gays do. And why do you think children in gay families are less deserving of their families' legal recognition?
I'm sure you'll come up with something, but the fact remains it's just not up to you to say. The courts will rule in favor of gay marriage one day.
You're free to have your opinion--and you're free not to marry someone of the same sex--but the rest of the world is under no obligation to live according to your wishes.
Comments continue below
RE:You're logic is still irratio | 3:18 p.m. April 2, 2008
RE: You're logic is still irrational
Yes i do agree we can get married to the opposite sex if we choose to but you cant get mad at us when we ruin a family when they find out we are attracted to the same sex after having three kids. So which do you want to happen to society the only way i see us ruining the name and values of "marraige" is if we are forced to do it and tear the family apart. Where as if we could do it with out the fear and the forcment then marriage still would have the same meaning- Two people who really love eachother. Marriage after all was a government issued certificate so it has nothing to do with religion only if you choose to have your religion involved.
Yes i do agree we can get married to the opposite sex if we choose to but you cant get mad at us when we ruin a family when they find out we are attracted to the same sex after having three kids. So which do you want to happen to society the only way i see us ruining the name and values of "marraige" is if we are forced to do it and tear the family apart. Where as if we could do it with out the fear and the forcment then marriage still would have the same meaning- Two people who really love eachother. Marriage after all was a government issued certificate so it has nothing to do with religion only if you choose to have your religion involved.
Town Heathan | 3:31 p.m. April 2, 2008
to: Ranger Gordon
You are absolutly right!!!
If Gay's are a threat to traditional marriage, then why is it that the heterosexual divorce rate is at over 50%?
Seems heterosexual's are what is really a threat to traditional marriage, and at a much more alarming (volume) rate.
You are absolutly right!!!
If Gay's are a threat to traditional marriage, then why is it that the heterosexual divorce rate is at over 50%?
Seems heterosexual's are what is really a threat to traditional marriage, and at a much more alarming (volume) rate.
to it's a karma thing | 4:18 p.m. April 2, 2008
Really, Christ said if you love me keep my commandments. What part of thou shalt
not commit adultery don't you understand? Fornication, same deal.
I believe is was Christ who said in Mark 10, "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
Sounds to me that Christ told men to get married to a woman. As you would say, this is from your New Testament Christ... There are many more in the New Testament if you need them....
Homosexuality will never be acceptable behavior. Christ said so. I'm sorry you can't deal with that very well, but that's just the way life is. We have choices to make and get to reap the consequences of those choices.
As for the institution of marriage, it is being decimated because people can't follow the counsel above. And yes, homosexuals want to redefine marriage to their own liking. Sorry. As for rights, you have all the rights available to you in the eyes of the law!
I believe is was Christ who said in Mark 10, "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
Sounds to me that Christ told men to get married to a woman. As you would say, this is from your New Testament Christ... There are many more in the New Testament if you need them....
Homosexuality will never be acceptable behavior. Christ said so. I'm sorry you can't deal with that very well, but that's just the way life is. We have choices to make and get to reap the consequences of those choices.
As for the institution of marriage, it is being decimated because people can't follow the counsel above. And yes, homosexuals want to redefine marriage to their own liking. Sorry. As for rights, you have all the rights available to you in the eyes of the law!
I Feel Sad for Counterfeiters | 4:29 p.m. April 2, 2008
"Two people who really love each other?" is your new definition of
marriage. What?
Sorry, even if gay unions were considered marriage by the courts or whoever, it is still a poor substitution for the real thing. Why don't you push for Gay unions to have equal rights as married persons, then you wouldn't have to redefine marriage and the sanctity of that union.
Keep blaming us for not giving you everything a traditional marriage would (Joy in your posterity through gay union--inconceivable), but it is not our fault your poor imitation of marriage will never measure up. We can't give you the happiness of marriage you so desperately want, until you give up the sin that can never truly replicate full happiness.
Sorry, even if gay unions were considered marriage by the courts or whoever, it is still a poor substitution for the real thing. Why don't you push for Gay unions to have equal rights as married persons, then you wouldn't have to redefine marriage and the sanctity of that union.
Keep blaming us for not giving you everything a traditional marriage would (Joy in your posterity through gay union--inconceivable), but it is not our fault your poor imitation of marriage will never measure up. We can't give you the happiness of marriage you so desperately want, until you give up the sin that can never truly replicate full happiness.
re: Informed | 4:41 p.m. April 2, 2008
I have no problem if people don't want to support those who are homosexual,
that their right. However, I do have a problem if the information being
distributed is not current and not factual causing fear and really in the end
misinformation.
Grandfather of Four ... So Far | 10:33 p.m. April 2, 2008
I know by the same way I know that the Book of Mormon is the word of God and
that Joseph was God's prophet of the restoration, that my homosexual sexual
orientation is God-given and that I am responsible to act just as morally in my
same-sex relationship as heterosexual couples sealed in the temple have always
been expected to act in their relationships. I know this and I know that God
knows it, as He is my witness.
Anonymous | 7:10 a.m. April 3, 2008
Grandfather...so you are saying that God "made" you gay. It was not
something that you just allowed to grow? You know the parable of the good seed?
Same situation. Only instead of it being a "good seed" it was the
opposite. Don't you understand that you can nurture the "bad
seed" also? Like another poster said, I have desires like these for
beautiful women. If you use the arugument that you are only being who you truly
are then I should leave my wife and kids and go be with all those women. But
there is a thing called temptation and adversity that I must overcome. I am
commanded by Christ (not the church) to be with my wife only. I obey that
commandment and try to follow his teachings on how to prevent me from falling to
those temptations. I know "God" did not make you gay. He allows
Satan to tempt you according to YOUR weaknesses and if you succumb then you have
proven yourself the unprofitable servant. He did not set you up for failure.
You failed on your own. He has given you everything short of personal
manafestations for you to succeed.
compassion always | 8:40 a.m. April 3, 2008
I have the utmost compassion for those who proclaim to be speaking for God but
are so full of hatred for those different than them they are actually speaking
for Satan and aren't even aware of it.
Darin | 9:07 a.m. April 3, 2008
re: compassion always:
Way to play the "hate" card. No way I could have seen that one coming.
Way to play the "hate" card. No way I could have seen that one coming.
Richard | 9:18 a.m. April 3, 2008
Why are mormons the most intolerant people I have every met. It is actually
funny. The comments on this mormon board illustrate the hate that the mormon
church teaches.
Don't worry mormons, you are not alone, most religion pretend to "love" but in reality they promote hate and war.
I will continue to ski and hike on sundays with my family, teaching love and equality.
I hope to see you all there!
Don't worry mormons, you are not alone, most religion pretend to "love" but in reality they promote hate and war.
I will continue to ski and hike on sundays with my family, teaching love and equality.
I hope to see you all there!
Rules Judge | 9:51 a.m. April 3, 2008
When observing the �modern liberal in verbal
action�� ask a cogent relevant
question � they almost always will:
01. Refuse to answer �yes or no�
02. Get louder and talk faster or mock the questioner
03. Point at other bad behavior to excuse their bad behavior (this is in vogue now)
04. Topic-shift (often after being presented data on the current topic)
05. Start the �victim� litany
06. Talk or write non-stop to prevent further inquiry (a string of fact less assertions)
07. Feign anger or surprise that �the questioner would stoop so low, etc�
08. Claim it�s personal or under investigation so they can�t comment
09. State firmly that �you don�t understand� (aka you are stupid)
10. Present a distracting joke to trivialize the subject
01. Refuse to answer �yes or no�
02. Get louder and talk faster or mock the questioner
03. Point at other bad behavior to excuse their bad behavior (this is in vogue now)
04. Topic-shift (often after being presented data on the current topic)
05. Start the �victim� litany
06. Talk or write non-stop to prevent further inquiry (a string of fact less assertions)
07. Feign anger or surprise that �the questioner would stoop so low, etc�
08. Claim it�s personal or under investigation so they can�t comment
09. State firmly that �you don�t understand� (aka you are stupid)
10. Present a distracting joke to trivialize the subject
Re: rules judge | 9:48 a.m. April 3, 2008
And the neo-conservatives...they do what?
Grandfather of Four ... So Far | 9:49 a.m. April 3, 2008
No, Anonymous, that is not what I was saying. Read and consider my whole message
and all of the embedded and implied scriptural references from all of holy writ.
Then you may get a more complete picture of what I am saying. -- May ye who have
eyes to see and ears to hear both see and hear.
Feel Sad Why | 10:01 a.m. April 3, 2008
RE: I Feel Sad for Counterfeiters
Have you ever been in a homosexual relationship? I doubt so, so how do you know its not the same feelings as a Heterosexual Relationship, Who gives you the authority to state that it doesnt deserve the same rights? Remeber to leave religion out of this because after all the Seperation of Church and State should still be inforced, To bad its all that your mind will think about. Love is Love it doesnt matter the gender god taught of love to everyone not just the opposite gender right?
Sad | 10:23 a.m. April 3, 2008
Sad to see some condescending attitudes here from purported followers of Christ.
How easily you condemn others as sinners, having never stepped in their
shoes.
As an LDS member from abroad, living in Utah frequently reminds me of living among the Pharisees. Having gospel truths, Jesus instructed his followers to obey what the Pharisees taught, but he strongly criticized "hypocritical Pharisees" and those who were "leaven" among them that spoiled the whole group. Those Pharisees were so zealous for their oral interpretations that they violated the letter of Torah Law. Many were so focused on obedience and self-importance that they did not notice or care about the needs of those around them-- a problem that still rears its head among Church members today.
As long as I live in a democratic nation, I will exercise my right to free agency and refrain from condemning my neighbors the right to exercise theirs. I must frequently remind myself that the Church for me, will always be about how the Gospel enriches my own life, and not what the members think or say. I am perfectly content to allow the Lord to sit in judgment of us all, in the last days.
As an LDS member from abroad, living in Utah frequently reminds me of living among the Pharisees. Having gospel truths, Jesus instructed his followers to obey what the Pharisees taught, but he strongly criticized "hypocritical Pharisees" and those who were "leaven" among them that spoiled the whole group. Those Pharisees were so zealous for their oral interpretations that they violated the letter of Torah Law. Many were so focused on obedience and self-importance that they did not notice or care about the needs of those around them-- a problem that still rears its head among Church members today.
As long as I live in a democratic nation, I will exercise my right to free agency and refrain from condemning my neighbors the right to exercise theirs. I must frequently remind myself that the Church for me, will always be about how the Gospel enriches my own life, and not what the members think or say. I am perfectly content to allow the Lord to sit in judgment of us all, in the last days.
dear Grandfather of Four | 12:26 p.m. April 3, 2008
that is very special. thank you for sharing it.
Anonymous | 2:48 p.m. April 3, 2008
I am afraid the Mormon church has dropped the ball.
Their leaders seem to have forgotten to tell the flock that our God is an unconditionally, loving God.
I think they are focusing on the Old Testament God who likes to throw people into hell - because He loves them instead of the New Testament God.
Their leaders seem to have forgotten to tell the flock that our God is an unconditionally, loving God.
I think they are focusing on the Old Testament God who likes to throw people into hell - because He loves them instead of the New Testament God.
The Reality | 3:15 p.m. April 3, 2008
There are about as many scientist or doctors left who think homosexuality is NOT
genetic as those left who still think the world was created in the past 6,000
actual calender years. And yet religious dogma and fear hang on far beyond all
rational logic and evidence. It took until 1974 until rational minds realized
the outdated, bigotted stance towards blacks in the LDS Church had to change.
The same change (ration cloaked as revelation for those who are still irrational
and need to believe God said so) will eventually come regarding the reality of
homosexuality and genetics. In the meantime, those who must be told what to
think rather than how to think will continue to believe homosexuality is a
perverse choice rather than a genetic disposition as natural as heterosexuality.
However - I do agree with some comments that the public flamboyency could be
turned down a notch (or three) in order for more to actually hear the message
rather than be distracted or turned off by the display. And I say that to my
very flamboyent gay friend all the time!
Holmes | 3:25 p.m. April 3, 2008
There is no debate here.
As I have learned from experience, you can't reason and rationalize with people who are unreasonable and irrational.
Homosexuality is wrong on every plane and level. It's wrong biologically, spiritually, socially, economically; it's an unhealthy high risk lifestyle. There is no doubting these facts. With that said, there will always be people who justify it--- and they are irrational.
As I have learned from experience, you can't reason and rationalize with people who are unreasonable and irrational.
Homosexuality is wrong on every plane and level. It's wrong biologically, spiritually, socially, economically; it's an unhealthy high risk lifestyle. There is no doubting these facts. With that said, there will always be people who justify it--- and they are irrational.
Paul | 3:39 p.m. April 3, 2008
The law of Natural Selection which applies to all living things puts forth the
selfish gene theory- that is: genes fight to get passed on to the next
generation (survival). Through reproduction, your genes get passed to your
offspring. Only the strong genes, or better said, the genes which promote a
healthy species and survival of the offspring of the next generation are the
genes which survive and propagate themselves through successive generations. It
is a fundamental tenant of of evolution- only the strong genes survive- how
does a homosexual gene fit into this law? That's what I thought, it
doesn't. Learn, my children.. The homosexual gene, if there were such a
thing would not make it into the next generation of offspring and therefore
natural selection (or nature) would naturally eliminate that gene. As animals
evolve, the genes which promote the strength and survival of the species are
naturally selected. Homosexuality is in direct conflict with natural selection-
which I believe was a liberal scientific theory. Hmmmmm.
Anonymous | 4:13 p.m. April 3, 2008
I am sure homosexuality is "wrong" to you Holmes.
I was raised with a live-and-let-live life philosophy and quite secure with my sexuality.
I am afraid those who freak out at what complete strangers do in the privacy of their own homes may be trying to hide something they are afraid to face.
I was raised with a live-and-let-live life philosophy and quite secure with my sexuality.
I am afraid those who freak out at what complete strangers do in the privacy of their own homes may be trying to hide something they are afraid to face.
Suburbs of SLC | 4:26 p.m. April 3, 2008
To my fellow church members - way to continue portraying the negativity of the
church. Congratulations, you have successfully supported their beliefs about
the intolerance and general stupidity of members of the church. It would be
nice if they were given the opportunity to hear what is actually preached by the
heads of the church, which are in fact love-filled messages, but why should they
bother? You've already proven to them that regardless of the messages
preached, the congregations aren't listening.
It's not our place to make laws restricting the rights of others to choose one lifestyle or another. The purpose of law is to protect one person from another. As homosexuals aren't doing anything to 'harm' another, that is outside the bounds of law. If you're worried the family is collapsing, and I agree that it is, you'd better rush back home to help build your family up. You have every right to teach your children what you believe. Leave it at that.
It's not our place to make laws restricting the rights of others to choose one lifestyle or another. The purpose of law is to protect one person from another. As homosexuals aren't doing anything to 'harm' another, that is outside the bounds of law. If you're worried the family is collapsing, and I agree that it is, you'd better rush back home to help build your family up. You have every right to teach your children what you believe. Leave it at that.
To Suburbs of SLC | 4:50 p.m. April 3, 2008
Wrong answer...
We don't live in a vacuum- everything a person does affects everyone else. That's why we have laws. You say it does no harm. Yet, the social costs, health care costs, etc. are ever increasing and who pays those costs? It's hard to "build up my own family" when the money that I could spend on my own children goes toward the cost in tax dollars and increased health care premiums and social programs associated with so called "alternative lifestyles." You have no right to ask me to esentially subsidize immorality when I could use that money to "build up my family." Everything has an effect on everything else. The financial costs to any one individual may be small, but one dollar can't be in two places at once. I want that dollar to "build up my family" since I am a breeder an proud of it. Thank you, next.....
We don't live in a vacuum- everything a person does affects everyone else. That's why we have laws. You say it does no harm. Yet, the social costs, health care costs, etc. are ever increasing and who pays those costs? It's hard to "build up my own family" when the money that I could spend on my own children goes toward the cost in tax dollars and increased health care premiums and social programs associated with so called "alternative lifestyles." You have no right to ask me to esentially subsidize immorality when I could use that money to "build up my family." Everything has an effect on everything else. The financial costs to any one individual may be small, but one dollar can't be in two places at once. I want that dollar to "build up my family" since I am a breeder an proud of it. Thank you, next.....
Kevin | 4:51 p.m. April 3, 2008
Paul, and all those who think variations in sexual orientation cannot have any
association with gene function, consider there a number of genetic disorders
that result in crippling disabilities and/or death very early in life. E.g.
Duchenne muscular dystrohpy. Bisexuals could also be responsible for passing
on whatever gene or genes.
What's the phenotype anyway? There seem to be several states of sexual orientation. The onset of variations of sexual orientation could primarily happen at puberty, and may be a function exogenous factors.
Lastly, sexual orientation variations don't have to be genetic to be rooting in biology.
So, please. Think before you speak.
What's the phenotype anyway? There seem to be several states of sexual orientation. The onset of variations of sexual orientation could primarily happen at puberty, and may be a function exogenous factors.
Lastly, sexual orientation variations don't have to be genetic to be rooting in biology.
So, please. Think before you speak.
Same freedoms & rights for all | 6:28 p.m. April 3, 2008
The real debate seems to be about free agency and rights:
As for free agency:
Anyone who can have sex, can freely choose to have gay sex, even if it is a sin. We are all free to sin.
As for rights:
Marriage is between a man and a woman. So whether you are a man or a woman you already have the right to get married. You just don't have the right to redefine marriage--and diminish what marriage is.
Conclusion:
The guilty take the truth to be hard, but the truth shall set you free. No one does us any favors by letting us wallow in sin. Happiness will never be found in Satan's imitations, no matter how close the mirage. The freedoms and rights to gain full happiness are already available to all; It is sad when we don't choose to take it.
As for free agency:
Anyone who can have sex, can freely choose to have gay sex, even if it is a sin. We are all free to sin.
As for rights:
Marriage is between a man and a woman. So whether you are a man or a woman you already have the right to get married. You just don't have the right to redefine marriage--and diminish what marriage is.
Conclusion:
The guilty take the truth to be hard, but the truth shall set you free. No one does us any favors by letting us wallow in sin. Happiness will never be found in Satan's imitations, no matter how close the mirage. The freedoms and rights to gain full happiness are already available to all; It is sad when we don't choose to take it.
Hiding something | 6:34 a.m. April 4, 2008
Those who simply cannot get beyond this issue are not secure with their own
sexuality and probably would be much better off trying to find out why this is.
Momof3 | 7:23 a.m. April 4, 2008
As a lesbian mother of 3, and a woman with a real and personal relationship with
the Lord, I thank all of you who are able to approach this issue with a thinking
mind and a loving heart.
To those of you who disagree with me, my lifestyle, and my family - you have every right to believe the way you believe and live the way you choose to live, please allow me the same. The ONLY One who knows all, will be my final judge -and yours.
Peace to all of you.
To those of you who disagree with me, my lifestyle, and my family - you have every right to believe the way you believe and live the way you choose to live, please allow me the same. The ONLY One who knows all, will be my final judge -and yours.
Peace to all of you.
Rulan | 9:17 a.m. April 4, 2008
Amazing how many people on here serve God as an adviser. Some of the things you
quote him as saying, not saying, doing, not doing can't all be true as
they're polar opposites.
I think he he referred to you when he said "I know them not".
I think he he referred to you when he said "I know them not".
Anonymous | 9:22 a.m. April 4, 2008
Why are people so afraid of homosexuals. Are you afraid that they are going to
break into your home and redecorate? Why the homophobia. When I was single I was
like "more women for me." As a married man with children, I do not
fear a homsexual running off with my wife. I do fear the pedophile but there is
a difference between pedophile. I would not encourage my child into that
lifestyle it is a hard one, as society does not accept it. I always have felt
that people who are homophobic have homosexual tendancies that they are scared
of. I am Mormon, however I love my children so much that as adults if they were
to choose that lifestyle I would still love them the same. I truly believe
Heavenly father loves them the same way I love my children. It is not your call
to judge. Leave it in Heavenly Fathers hands.
Already spoken | 10:11 a.m. April 4, 2008
To Mom of 3...Christ has already spoken on this issue. You are just choosing to
ignore it. We all are sinners so that is nothing new. We all choose commandments
we obey and willfully and unwillfully, disobey others. We just don't get to
choose the consequence. Go read Mark 10 about Christ's words on marriage.
Rulan...maybe you could expand a little bit on your observations? It would be helpful if you listed the contradictions of Christ's words so we know what you are referring to. It's just helpful in the discussion.
Anonymous as usual gets the debate wrong. The debate isn't that anyone is "afraid" of homosexuals. The debate is whether or not the behavior is right or wrong. I really don't care if you are Mormon or not, because it has nothing to do with the debate either.
According to scripture, the behavior is wrong and should be turned away from. Also, if you are a parent, then you will understand that one can love their children very much and not agree with or approve of their child's behavior.
Sure, there are people who hate homosexuals just like there are people who hate (fill in the blank)
Rulan...maybe you could expand a little bit on your observations? It would be helpful if you listed the contradictions of Christ's words so we know what you are referring to. It's just helpful in the discussion.
Anonymous as usual gets the debate wrong. The debate isn't that anyone is "afraid" of homosexuals. The debate is whether or not the behavior is right or wrong. I really don't care if you are Mormon or not, because it has nothing to do with the debate either.
According to scripture, the behavior is wrong and should be turned away from. Also, if you are a parent, then you will understand that one can love their children very much and not agree with or approve of their child's behavior.
Sure, there are people who hate homosexuals just like there are people who hate (fill in the blank)
Already spoken 2 | 10:26 a.m. April 4, 2008
Continued.... It is not possible to love the individual and not approve of the
person's behavior? Sure it is. You make that judgment everyday.
You say a lifestyle that society doesn't accept. I'd say it's a behavior that Christ doesn't accept and has told us not to embrace. I always find it interesting how people can completely distance themselves from scripture that doesn't coincide with their own mortal thinking.
However, Christ told us that His ways are higher than ours and His thoughts are greater than ours.
The rest of your post is ridiculous and without merit or foundation. In actuality it is just plain stupid.
Heavenly Father loves everyone, that's why you are on this earth. However, He doesn't like it when His children disobey His commandments.
It is our responsibility to make judgments everyday. To say otherwise is showing a lack of knowledge about scripture and life. If your neighbor is a known killer of young children, would you allow your child to go play at their house? Of course not. But why are you judging him?
Homosexuality is a behavior that is not congruent with the teachings of Christ. Plain and simple. Live them or not!
You say a lifestyle that society doesn't accept. I'd say it's a behavior that Christ doesn't accept and has told us not to embrace. I always find it interesting how people can completely distance themselves from scripture that doesn't coincide with their own mortal thinking.
However, Christ told us that His ways are higher than ours and His thoughts are greater than ours.
The rest of your post is ridiculous and without merit or foundation. In actuality it is just plain stupid.
Heavenly Father loves everyone, that's why you are on this earth. However, He doesn't like it when His children disobey His commandments.
It is our responsibility to make judgments everyday. To say otherwise is showing a lack of knowledge about scripture and life. If your neighbor is a known killer of young children, would you allow your child to go play at their house? Of course not. But why are you judging him?
Homosexuality is a behavior that is not congruent with the teachings of Christ. Plain and simple. Live them or not!
re: Same Freedoms | 11:48 a.m. April 4, 2008
Amen, amen, amen!!!
Marriage is not going to redefined just because a few people want it to be so it goes along with their way of life.
Amen about the guilty taketh the truth to be hard. Anyone with half a brain should realize and use their common sense that it's a man and woman who make a family and have kids...there is just no other possible way. Period.
Personally, I think all gays should move to an island and they can make their own laws and we no longer have to worry about our kids watching such wayward ways of life.
Marriage is not going to redefined just because a few people want it to be so it goes along with their way of life.
Amen about the guilty taketh the truth to be hard. Anyone with half a brain should realize and use their common sense that it's a man and woman who make a family and have kids...there is just no other possible way. Period.
Personally, I think all gays should move to an island and they can make their own laws and we no longer have to worry about our kids watching such wayward ways of life.
Theocracy | 11:48 a.m. April 4, 2008
You contradict your self.
You say,
The debate isn't that anyone is "afraid" of homosexuals. The debate is whether or not the behavior is right or wrong. I really don't care if you are Mormon or not, because it has nothing to do with the debate either.
But later on you state that,
According to scripture, the behavior is wrong and should be turned away from.
So isnt scripture part of a religion and isnt mormonism a religion so you really dont make yourself clear on that. Religion shouldnt have any saying on this what if god didnt even exist or have anything to do on this matter where would you be then? And if your so religious how can you judge someone when you know that god and jesus are the only ones who can.
How will we redefine the meaning of marriage the concept of marriage is two people who are in love. And marriage has already been killed by people who get married for 56 hours then get a divorce so how can we destroy it by letting two people who are in love show it?
jane | 12:29 p.m. April 4, 2008
I am a member of the religious majority here but I could care less what the gays
are doing in their personal lives. They are not affecting my family or my family
values. When my kids grandmother went through a "gay phase" a few
years back all I needed to know is that she is a good woman and she loves my
kids.
To Theocracy | 12:46 p.m. April 4, 2008
Sorry for the confusion. To answer your question, I'd be right where I am
now. Why?
"For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God."
Each of us knows what is right and wrong so choose accordingly.
However, their is a God, always has been, always will be. I hope you learn more of God's word and follow it and understand it.
The way has been set forth by God. It's there for you to follow and be a part of...plain, simple, easy to understand. None of the arguments mean anything because they are contrary to the word of God. And anything contrary to the will of God is against God. We can't serve 2 masters.... right?
"For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God."
Each of us knows what is right and wrong so choose accordingly.
However, their is a God, always has been, always will be. I hope you learn more of God's word and follow it and understand it.
The way has been set forth by God. It's there for you to follow and be a part of...plain, simple, easy to understand. None of the arguments mean anything because they are contrary to the word of God. And anything contrary to the will of God is against God. We can't serve 2 masters.... right?
RE;To Theocracy | 1:30 p.m. April 4, 2008
I am LDS and Gay and i know God still loves me no matter what happens. The word
of god has been changed and made impure by man. Through out the ages of time
the bible has been translated into different languages and by different people.
If we were to follow the word of god, people would be stoned out in the street.
The world would be different than it would today.
Times change for a reason. There is always a solution to problems to, IE: over popluation of the world, it might not be in the bible of how god planned the solution but it is meant to be by god because back then there wasnt as many people on the earth as there are today.
And how do you know what god is thinking today he has not released a current version of the bible within the last 2000 years has he?
Times change for a reason. There is always a solution to problems to, IE: over popluation of the world, it might not be in the bible of how god planned the solution but it is meant to be by god because back then there wasnt as many people on the earth as there are today.
And how do you know what god is thinking today he has not released a current version of the bible within the last 2000 years has he?
To Theocracy | 2:17 p.m. April 4, 2008
You are absolutely correct; God does love you. I certainly have never said that
He doesn't. I will say that if you are acting on your homosexual behavioral
urges, then He is very disappointed in your choice to sin. Just as He is when I
make a choice to sin; whatever it is.
Thou shalt not commit adultery/fornication.
Leave mother and father and cleave unto thy wife.
I have studied tremendously the origins of the New Testament. I could refer numerous books and scholarly papers for you to read.
That still doesn't give you or me an excuse to ignore the commandments. If you are LDS, then surely you've read the same commandments in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants.
YOu want a current version of the Bible? Well, listen to conference this weekend. Tell me what His prophet and apostles tell us. Go read all that has been said about fidelity.
There is not such thing as over population. It is a lie spread by selfish people who don't understand the plan of happiness created by God.
There is no justification for sin; we truly deceive ourselves with self-justification. Christ will tell us you should've obeyed.
Thou shalt not commit adultery/fornication.
Leave mother and father and cleave unto thy wife.
I have studied tremendously the origins of the New Testament. I could refer numerous books and scholarly papers for you to read.
That still doesn't give you or me an excuse to ignore the commandments. If you are LDS, then surely you've read the same commandments in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants.
YOu want a current version of the Bible? Well, listen to conference this weekend. Tell me what His prophet and apostles tell us. Go read all that has been said about fidelity.
There is not such thing as over population. It is a lie spread by selfish people who don't understand the plan of happiness created by God.
There is no justification for sin; we truly deceive ourselves with self-justification. Christ will tell us you should've obeyed.
Anonymous | 3:40 p.m. April 4, 2008
With the Romney campaign, I was shocked at the level of religous intolerance
toward LDS people. After reading these blogs I can see that we are as intolerant
of others as others are to us. Christ said, "I the Lord will forgive whom I
will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men." I don't
see an appendage to that saying (except homosexuals.) LDS people are getting
back exactly what they are putting out. Love God and your fellow men (gay or
straight again, not mentioned.) I have known plenty of LDS guys when in the
singles ward that I know were gay. I felt so sorry for them because they seemed
so self critical, please have some compassion and stop beating them up. They do
a better job of that themselves.
Anonymous | 3:59 p.m. April 4, 2008
A quick perusal of these posts might indicate that there are some Mormons that
love God and hate everybody else.
Anonymous | 4:22 p.m. April 4, 2008
I wish people would start remembering that it is not our job to judge others.
You don't have to accept sin but it's God's job to judge, not
ours.
re Anonymous | 4:22 p.m. | 5:49 p.m. April 4, 2008
Point out who is judging please....
Anonymous | 7:25 a.m. April 5, 2008
"Gay 'agenda' targeted" should be enough to indicate there
is some serious judgement going on.
Dear Anonymous | 12:40 p.m. April 5, 2008
I sure wish we all could be as righteous and virtuous as you. You are the beacon
of knowledge and compassion. Your example each day on these pages lets us all
know that you have never, ever judged anyone for doing anything.
I only wish that I could live up to your wonderful example of uplifting words and comments each day.
Let us all follow Anonymous and his fantastic lead in all we do each day. Thanks for showing us how to live our lives each day and do things for those with whom we don't agree on behavior.
If you have children, I bet they are perfect and you have never corrected them in their behavior. I'd sure love to interview them to see how they were able to go through your home without being taught the virtue of living a moral and obedient life.
Again, thanks for your example each day in uplifting comments and without judging those with whom you disagree.
I only wish that I could live up to your wonderful example of uplifting words and comments each day.
Let us all follow Anonymous and his fantastic lead in all we do each day. Thanks for showing us how to live our lives each day and do things for those with whom we don't agree on behavior.
If you have children, I bet they are perfect and you have never corrected them in their behavior. I'd sure love to interview them to see how they were able to go through your home without being taught the virtue of living a moral and obedient life.
Again, thanks for your example each day in uplifting comments and without judging those with whom you disagree.
Re: Dear Anonymous | 1:45 p.m. April 5, 2008
Ha ha, that's so funny. You don't even know that Anonymous 4:22 is a
different person than Anonymous 7:25. I have children and am bringing them up in
the teachings of the Dominant Utah church. I remember studying the scriptures
and reading something about how God can judge us but we can't judge others.
And oh my gosh! How dare you judge my children! What are they doing right this
second? They are spending a Saturday afternoon in the art room coloring with
magic markers together and planning a birthday party for their stuffed animals.
Immoral stuff indeed. I don't even let them watch pg movies unless I know
they are clean. But I'm not going to teach them to judge others. I
wasn't raised in the Church and I have gay relatives so I need to approach
people who don't believe the same as I with kindness and compassion.
Anonymous | 1:43 p.m. April 5, 2008
Judging people is purely a neocon thing.
It makes people feel oh, so much better to pass judgement on others.
Makes them forget about the war. Makes them forget about the economy. Makes them forget about their ideology that got us into the divisive mess we are in today to begin with.
But, (as they like to brag) Right is right! So don't disagree with them and everything will be just hunky-dory. :>
It makes people feel oh, so much better to pass judgement on others.
Makes them forget about the war. Makes them forget about the economy. Makes them forget about their ideology that got us into the divisive mess we are in today to begin with.
But, (as they like to brag) Right is right! So don't disagree with them and everything will be just hunky-dory. :>
Anonymous | 2:11 p.m. April 5, 2008
Conservatives are judgemental and adore punishment.
Progressives believe in live-and-let-live.
Which ideology do you think will overcome the other?
Progressives believe in live-and-let-live.
Which ideology do you think will overcome the other?
To "Already Spoken" | 4:58 p.m. April 5, 2008
You sound like you are someone that believes everything the Bible says. Do you
have slaves? Do you have sacrifices? Do you consider women as second class
citizens? I doubt it.
Bible believing people need to learn the difference between lifesyles thousands of years ago and ours. Of course their books are going to sound different! But religions pick and choose what is appropriate for them. Unfortunately, many people choose discrimination of gay people because what they don't understand threatens them.
Bible believing people need to learn the difference between lifesyles thousands of years ago and ours. Of course their books are going to sound different! But religions pick and choose what is appropriate for them. Unfortunately, many people choose discrimination of gay people because what they don't understand threatens them.
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We are free to choose what we want to do, but we are unable to determine the consequences. If you CHOOSE to live a gay life, please don't ask to raise children. Evn if all your "body parts" work correctly, you will never be able to cocieve a child....your choice, your consequence. I'm not saying you are "bad"...its just your choice.
All our morals could use some fixing!!!