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Gay 'agenda' targeted — Speakers in American Fork warn of dangers
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Ashamed AFHS Student | 10:57 p.m. April 1, 2008
As a student of AFHS I am ashamed to have Belinda Johnson as my PTA President,
and am also upset with community leaders. As a representitive of AFHS she
should be trying to make all the students feel accepted-not going around and
fixing the "gay problem."
I am glad that Mrs. Merril canceled the meeting. There has been over the past few years instances of violence against homosexuals at AFHS. Things from graffiti on lockers, to broken noses to being robbed.
There are bigger "problems" in AFHS than homosexuality. Things like teen pregnancy, drug abuse and suicide. AFHS has already experienced a string of suicides this year, adding more hate and blind prejudice into the mix will not be fixing any problem, (gay or otherwise) just creating more. Heavens forbid we focus on the real problems.
And don't even bring God into this argument. Who is anyone to say that someone is right and someone is wrong. Just because someone is a homosexual doesn't make them a bad person. You may not agree with what they do, but teaching your children to hate and judge blindly will not create a more "christ like world." It'll be just the opposite.
I am glad that Mrs. Merril canceled the meeting. There has been over the past few years instances of violence against homosexuals at AFHS. Things from graffiti on lockers, to broken noses to being robbed.
There are bigger "problems" in AFHS than homosexuality. Things like teen pregnancy, drug abuse and suicide. AFHS has already experienced a string of suicides this year, adding more hate and blind prejudice into the mix will not be fixing any problem, (gay or otherwise) just creating more. Heavens forbid we focus on the real problems.
And don't even bring God into this argument. Who is anyone to say that someone is right and someone is wrong. Just because someone is a homosexual doesn't make them a bad person. You may not agree with what they do, but teaching your children to hate and judge blindly will not create a more "christ like world." It'll be just the opposite.
Dave | 11:10 p.m. April 1, 2008
Homosexuality undermines the Family which is the central unit of society.
Reproduction is innate and purposeful. Homosexuals, not unlike many
heterosexuals cannot procreate; homosexuals, however, could never procreate,
even if desired. Does not this alone tell us something? Homosexuality is wrong
and goes against fundamental natural standards. Decisions need to consciously
and carefully be made that will further values that perpetuate the family
staying in tact. Homosexuality undermines the very foundations of a family unit,
and turn that which is right and appropriate into something and not used
properly.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 11:30 p.m. April 1, 2008
What do people mean by saying there is no homosexual agenda? I am a male over 65
and grew up in New York City and its suburbs. From the time I was 5 years old I
was being approached by perverts with only one object in mind. They were older
teens who were sons of my parent's friends, they were boys in the schools,
and as I grew up they were older males who were in positions of authority over
me. In all that time of growing up, I was never propositioned for a heterosexual
relationship, only homosexual ones. It was disgusting. Homosexuals indeed have
a very nasty agenda and always have had.
Re:Dave | 11:29 p.m. April 1, 2008
"Homosexuality undermines the very foundations of a family unit, and turn
that which is right and appropriate into something and not used
properly."
How exactly does homosexuality undermine the family unit?
Do you honestly feel like your family is going to fall apart if they come in contact with a gay person?
How exactly does homosexuality undermine the family unit?
Do you honestly feel like your family is going to fall apart if they come in contact with a gay person?
re: Dave | 11:34 p.m. April 1, 2008
Care to justify your accusations?
HOW does being gay "undermine" the family?
HOW does a small portion of the population not reproducing constitute being wrong?
All these homophobic "people" are just so used to mindlessly repeating these talking points. They have never ONCE justified them.
HOW does being gay "undermine" the family?
HOW does a small portion of the population not reproducing constitute being wrong?
All these homophobic "people" are just so used to mindlessly repeating these talking points. They have never ONCE justified them.
Re: annonymous 11:30 | 11:48 p.m. April 1, 2008
Since you are obviously completely unaware, being gay is NOT the same thing as
being a pedophile. And many pedophiles are HETEROSEXUAL.
However, the horror of pedophilia has nothing to do with the REAL gay "agenda" which is about not wanting people butting their heads into the private lives of others. People need to stop worrying so much over what other consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. Its not like they make you watch or anything.
However, the horror of pedophilia has nothing to do with the REAL gay "agenda" which is about not wanting people butting their heads into the private lives of others. People need to stop worrying so much over what other consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. Its not like they make you watch or anything.
Want to know a secret? | 11:58 p.m. April 1, 2008
50 years ago, hate-mongers were saying the exact same things about blacks and
other minorities that people are now throwing at the gay community. It was the
hate-mongers who were wrong then and they're wrong now.
"Protect our children from homosexuals"
"Don't let a black man date your daughter"
Same stuff, different target.
"Protect our children from homosexuals"
"Don't let a black man date your daughter"
Same stuff, different target.
Utah County Resident | 12:33 a.m. April 2, 2008
I love how people say we should not judge others and in the same sentence rip on
all of Utah County because of a meeting of 20 people.
Ironic isn't it?
Ironic isn't it?
MLK | 1:29 a.m. April 2, 2008
It's really hard to get past the fear of the unknown. It's really
easy to fall into trap of anecdotal evidence. And it would be really nice if we
could find new ground for this topic. Good arguments and strong sentiments have
been laid out now.
I think we can all agree that people are generally afraid if not repulsed by promiscuity, not so much orientation. And that it would be easier if 100% of the population, like a tulip garden, lined up perfectly. But around 5% of us are like the covalent bonds I remember learning in HS Chemistry class - O2 (rather than NaCl) - we connect to one like our own.
I know for Mormons, the Proclamation (1995) was supposed to be the final answer. But, it isn't - my hunch is that it will be amended one day (I didn't say thrown out - just tweaked). Just like blacks and the priesthood.
If Dick Cheney and Dick Gephardt can handle all this, we can too. It's coming time for all of us to move on. And live well. And learn Chinese. And have a production of Rent staged regionally - so that we can learn.
I think we can all agree that people are generally afraid if not repulsed by promiscuity, not so much orientation. And that it would be easier if 100% of the population, like a tulip garden, lined up perfectly. But around 5% of us are like the covalent bonds I remember learning in HS Chemistry class - O2 (rather than NaCl) - we connect to one like our own.
I know for Mormons, the Proclamation (1995) was supposed to be the final answer. But, it isn't - my hunch is that it will be amended one day (I didn't say thrown out - just tweaked). Just like blacks and the priesthood.
If Dick Cheney and Dick Gephardt can handle all this, we can too. It's coming time for all of us to move on. And live well. And learn Chinese. And have a production of Rent staged regionally - so that we can learn.
Bible beaters..... | 1:49 a.m. April 2, 2008
Falling back on religious arguments, eh?
Only God determines sin, prosecutes, and sits in judgement. I do not, and neither do any of you. Makes me wonder what the hidden �agenda� is of the religious right.
Only God determines sin, prosecutes, and sits in judgement. I do not, and neither do any of you. Makes me wonder what the hidden �agenda� is of the religious right.
boiseguy | 4:31 a.m. April 2, 2008
homosexuality doesn't undermine anything, because it has always existed,
and will continue to exist. Awful parenting, drug addiction, poverty, are all
serious issues that undermine the family and other important societal
structures. Two men or women looking to marry each other is not even on the
RADAR as far as I'm concerned when it comes to "problems" facing
our society. It goes back to blindedness that is rampant in american society. I
had roomates from norway who always laughed about americans. We gasp at the
thought of movies where two people are having sex, and make a big fuss about it
and its morality, yet we turn around and support movies where people's
head's are being blown off or people are turning into monsters and eating
each other. Where's the logic??? Sex and love are where people turn for
acceptance and closeness and it is what creates cohesiveness in our society.. to
deny that to any human being in our society is simply ridiculous and goes
against what you're trying to promote. What do you wish for gay people?
should they continue to be unwanted and rejected.. only to turn to drug abuse
and harmful destructive behavior? we deserve better!
THE FAMILY | 5:46 a.m. April 2, 2008
(by which is meant a married man and woman, who most likely will have and care
for a family as a natural product of their married relationship) is the basic
essential building block of a healthy society. It does not occur spontaneously
and requires nurturing and support from society.
There are a great many forces that by their nature tear down the family; adultery, prostitution, premarital sex, drug and alcohol addiction, pornography, homosexuality; to name a few. Society has a vested interest (tho it may not recognize it) to foster and promote the family, and by extension, to not promote those destructive competing influences.
There is a huge financial cost to a family to raise children (and ideally a family that dedicates one parent to be a caregiver and not outside breadwinner) Society has recognized that by giving "family" benefits to breadwinners. When you extend those benefits to everyone they are no longer benefits. Not every family will be the ideal, but society must work to see that as many have that opportunity as possible.
WE ARE LOSING THAT BATTLE as a society, as the posts here make clear.
There are a great many forces that by their nature tear down the family; adultery, prostitution, premarital sex, drug and alcohol addiction, pornography, homosexuality; to name a few. Society has a vested interest (tho it may not recognize it) to foster and promote the family, and by extension, to not promote those destructive competing influences.
There is a huge financial cost to a family to raise children (and ideally a family that dedicates one parent to be a caregiver and not outside breadwinner) Society has recognized that by giving "family" benefits to breadwinners. When you extend those benefits to everyone they are no longer benefits. Not every family will be the ideal, but society must work to see that as many have that opportunity as possible.
WE ARE LOSING THAT BATTLE as a society, as the posts here make clear.
Paul | 5:54 a.m. April 2, 2008
I don't agree with same gender attraction, and no one can force anyone to
agree with it.
dear: Re: annonymous 11:30 | 6:12 a.m. April 2, 2008
you said:
"the REAL gay "agenda" which is about not wanting people butting their heads into the private lives of others"
GIVE ME A BREAK
Homosexuals thrust their "bedroom" behavior into society's face by defining themselves and every aspect of their existence in terms of that behavior.
Homosexuals evidently have no idea how much society DOES"T CARE and is SICK of being being BOMBARDED with every aspect of your tortured personal agonies.
Quit demanding that society (govt or employers) $ubsidize YOUR PRIVATE CHOICES
Quit demanding that society embrace and affirm and legitimize YOUR PRIVATE CHOICES
Quit sending people into the public schools to indoctrinate our children with YOUR PRIVATE CHOICES
Quit blaming society if you feel depressed or suicidal about YOUR PRIVATE CHOICES
Quit expecting the world to ignore biological and psychological realities to accommodate YOUR PRIVATE CHOICES
please reacquaint your self with the concept of PRIVATE
you are like the obnoxious fan at the ball game with bare belly painted, huge wig, screaming drunk for three hours his love for the home team. unfortunately this game has been going on for decades.
"the REAL gay "agenda" which is about not wanting people butting their heads into the private lives of others"
GIVE ME A BREAK
Homosexuals thrust their "bedroom" behavior into society's face by defining themselves and every aspect of their existence in terms of that behavior.
Homosexuals evidently have no idea how much society DOES"T CARE and is SICK of being being BOMBARDED with every aspect of your tortured personal agonies.
Quit demanding that society (govt or employers) $ubsidize YOUR PRIVATE CHOICES
Quit demanding that society embrace and affirm and legitimize YOUR PRIVATE CHOICES
Quit sending people into the public schools to indoctrinate our children with YOUR PRIVATE CHOICES
Quit blaming society if you feel depressed or suicidal about YOUR PRIVATE CHOICES
Quit expecting the world to ignore biological and psychological realities to accommodate YOUR PRIVATE CHOICES
please reacquaint your self with the concept of PRIVATE
you are like the obnoxious fan at the ball game with bare belly painted, huge wig, screaming drunk for three hours his love for the home team. unfortunately this game has been going on for decades.
Hmmmm | 6:23 a.m. April 2, 2008
Homosexuality is associated with depression and suicide? Well, that may be true
because meetings like this happen. But then again, look in your own back yard,
Utah. I have no doubt that homosexuality is part of who a person is, it is a
choice how you then live your life. I am for being informed and then translating
that into proper reasons for tolerance. Hopefully, we don't find Graham one
day in a bathroom stall in Minnesota or looking for crystal meth in Colorado
Springs, LOL. Oh yeah, and GO COUGARS! The season is right around the corner!
ohio | 6:34 a.m. April 2, 2008
On Oprah the other day one of the guests was a wife of a polygamist marriage.
She made an interesting statement that with all the alternative lifestyles that
are accepted why not polygamy?
Everyone wants there special interest to be widely embraced regardless of how good, bad or ugly it may be.
Everyone wants there special interest to be widely embraced regardless of how good, bad or ugly it may be.
you do so wish | 6:53 a.m. April 2, 2008
that you could tap into the moral high ground of the Civil Rights Movement to
legitimize your lifestyle choices.
It is obscene to equate the struggles of a race to overcome slavery and discrimination with the desire to justify aberrant personal behavior.
I don't think many people will buy it.
It is obscene to equate the struggles of a race to overcome slavery and discrimination with the desire to justify aberrant personal behavior.
I don't think many people will buy it.
Kevin | 7:07 a.m. April 2, 2008
To "dear: Re: annonymous 11:30" at 6:12 a.m. Apr. 2, 2008
It's our shared PUBLIC policy that makes gay people's lives difficult. It is the reason gay people are making so much noise. You can yell all you want, but I for one will not stop seeking equal rights on matters that pertain to having a family. I doubt other gay people will stop either. You can object to the existence of families headed by same-sex couples, as you have.
But this is America. I am pursuing happiness... and equality. I want to be able to adopt with someone, or have a surrogacy contract that holds up in court. Legal marriage would be nice. You may disapprove, just as I probably disapprove about some aspects of how you are raising your own family.
My life is as PRIVATE as yours, but in the context of your presumed sexual orientation, you have no legal limitations. I do. You're smoking crack if you think a full 1 out of 20 or so people are going to just roll over and enjoy these limitations.
It's our shared PUBLIC policy that makes gay people's lives difficult. It is the reason gay people are making so much noise. You can yell all you want, but I for one will not stop seeking equal rights on matters that pertain to having a family. I doubt other gay people will stop either. You can object to the existence of families headed by same-sex couples, as you have.
But this is America. I am pursuing happiness... and equality. I want to be able to adopt with someone, or have a surrogacy contract that holds up in court. Legal marriage would be nice. You may disapprove, just as I probably disapprove about some aspects of how you are raising your own family.
My life is as PRIVATE as yours, but in the context of your presumed sexual orientation, you have no legal limitations. I do. You're smoking crack if you think a full 1 out of 20 or so people are going to just roll over and enjoy these limitations.
Kristen | 7:18 a.m. April 2, 2008
I'm sick to my stomach and near tears over some of the things I'm
reading here. As a former resident of Utah County, and the mother of a gay son,
who definitely didn't "choose" his orientation, I'm
disgusted by the hate and ignorance expressed in some of these posts. I'm
LDS, but on my way out, largely due to the intolerance and hate-mongering subtly
taught by the church. Christ's church? What a joke. I thank god I'm
out of Utah every day. You don't even see how truly hateful you are
being.
Thank you to those who support gays, their families, and gay rights. Although it's not a situation a parent would normally choose for themselves or their children, I wouldn't change who my son it, or watching him and develop into who he is for anything. Parents of gays and lesbians want the same things for their children every parent wants - happiness, success in life, and safety to be who they were born to be. That's the agenda, the same as the heterosexual one. And that's bad why?
Thank you to those who support gays, their families, and gay rights. Although it's not a situation a parent would normally choose for themselves or their children, I wouldn't change who my son it, or watching him and develop into who he is for anything. Parents of gays and lesbians want the same things for their children every parent wants - happiness, success in life, and safety to be who they were born to be. That's the agenda, the same as the heterosexual one. And that's bad why?
Lisa | 7:58 a.m. April 2, 2008
Homosexuals and gay life styles are just wrong no matter how you look at it. It
is naturally wrong, it is socially wrong, it is mentally wrong, it is
religiously wrong, it is wrong for the individual and it is wrong for the
community and the nation. If it is accepted into america mainstream it will
destroy our normal life style, our culture and our religious life and commitment
to a higher authority. We need to unite to protect our selves and our children
and future generations from this sickness.
Anonymous | 8:15 a.m. April 2, 2008
I know the Savior taught us to love everyone, but I don't think he meant
people we don't agree with. It couldn't possibly mean people with a
different sexual orientation than me, or opposing political views. Also, I
choose to disguise this hatred as "protecting the children".
suzyk | 8:19 a.m. April 2, 2008
Bravo to ??...what you expressed is right. It all comes down to control of our
feelings and bodies. Don't blame the Lord...he had nothing to do with
it...we all have weaknesses and the end result is what we choose to do with
them. It's that simple. Don't make it something it is not.
Jeff | 8:26 a.m. April 2, 2008
Get real! You can't turn somebody gay.
have compassion for this culture | 9:01 a.m. April 2, 2008
This culture is fear-based and thrives on setting people apart. "We all
like to look alike, think alike, act alike ... no exceptions welcome."
They like to circle the wagons at the drop of a hat.
It's the persecution/Last Days syndrome that has been beaten into their heads since day one.
I have the utmost compassion for these people.
It certainly is not the way I would want to live my life.
They like to circle the wagons at the drop of a hat.
It's the persecution/Last Days syndrome that has been beaten into their heads since day one.
I have the utmost compassion for these people.
It certainly is not the way I would want to live my life.
U have greater potential | 9:09 a.m. April 2, 2008
Everyone is a child of God. Everyone is free to choose happiness or sadness.
Everyone has the potential for success in this life, regardless of their
circumstances. Everyone came into this world being born to a father and a
mother, who also have free agency to be a good or bad parent. Everyone has the
potential to be a mother or a father, even if adoption is necessary, but it is a
poor choice for any of us to try to compromise the right a child should have to
be raised by a father and a mother. Gays have all of these rights like anyone
else. Don't give up your potential of noble titles (father or mother).
We must learn to have a love for all. People will make poor choices and they will be unhappy for it. We still love them. But we can't make them happy by condoning poor choices. Gays will never be happy with their lifestyle, because by their choosing they have forfeited the rights of family as God intended it. No one can be happy living in sin. So accepting others sins, doesn't make them happier. There is no alternate way to be happy.
We must learn to have a love for all. People will make poor choices and they will be unhappy for it. We still love them. But we can't make them happy by condoning poor choices. Gays will never be happy with their lifestyle, because by their choosing they have forfeited the rights of family as God intended it. No one can be happy living in sin. So accepting others sins, doesn't make them happier. There is no alternate way to be happy.
Re: Dave | 9:15 a.m. April 2, 2008
�Homosexuality undermines the very foundations of a family
unit�..�
I actually feel that traditional families would BENEFIT by having the gay population accepted and free to live their lives without fear of persecution from friends, family and Church members. I know of a couple in my ward who were married in the temple and had 4 children, before he �came out� to his wife. It was very devastating to this family because divorce followed. This would have never happened if this brother hadn�t felt like he needed to overlook his homosexuality to conform to Church and family expectations. I can�t help but wonder how many similar stories there are out there. I would much rather see gays accepted and free to live a lifestyle that suits them , then feel that they must fit the mold, pretend to be straight, and marry heterosexuals to be accepted. It is the latter that will destroy families.
I actually feel that traditional families would BENEFIT by having the gay population accepted and free to live their lives without fear of persecution from friends, family and Church members. I know of a couple in my ward who were married in the temple and had 4 children, before he �came out� to his wife. It was very devastating to this family because divorce followed. This would have never happened if this brother hadn�t felt like he needed to overlook his homosexuality to conform to Church and family expectations. I can�t help but wonder how many similar stories there are out there. I would much rather see gays accepted and free to live a lifestyle that suits them , then feel that they must fit the mold, pretend to be straight, and marry heterosexuals to be accepted. It is the latter that will destroy families.
True Standards = Happiness | 9:52 a.m. April 2, 2008
THE FAMILY | 5:46 a.m.
Dave | 11:10 p.m.
U have greater potential | 9:09 a.m.
What more needs to be said?
Dave | 11:10 p.m.
U have greater potential | 9:09 a.m.
What more needs to be said?
Your Neighbor | 9:59 a.m. April 2, 2008
My dearest Heterosexual hatemongers...
Please, could you turn down the volume? It seems to be interferring with my focus on refining my GAY AGENDA of WORLD DOMINATOIN, here in my humble abode in the insignificant city of SALT LAKE (in terms of the world at large, of course). Though, as I view the world you are developing, quite sure you could easily have it all for yourself, filled with hunger, the homeless and helpless, corruption, war, chaos, and deciet.. among other delights. BTW - The Homosexual existence is not one of sadness and hatred, it only seems to be a residual effect to your lack of acceptance and understanding. Aferall, do we 'gays and lesbians' not see RAINBOWS amongst every breathe? Now, go and replenish the earth as you are commanded by your dieties so that the future generations of this fabulous planet of ours can see the reality and vision of complete acceptance and LOVE, that you (well, the minority of you, optimistically calculated) all seem to be unable to grasp :-)
Please, could you turn down the volume? It seems to be interferring with my focus on refining my GAY AGENDA of WORLD DOMINATOIN, here in my humble abode in the insignificant city of SALT LAKE (in terms of the world at large, of course). Though, as I view the world you are developing, quite sure you could easily have it all for yourself, filled with hunger, the homeless and helpless, corruption, war, chaos, and deciet.. among other delights. BTW - The Homosexual existence is not one of sadness and hatred, it only seems to be a residual effect to your lack of acceptance and understanding. Aferall, do we 'gays and lesbians' not see RAINBOWS amongst every breathe? Now, go and replenish the earth as you are commanded by your dieties so that the future generations of this fabulous planet of ours can see the reality and vision of complete acceptance and LOVE, that you (well, the minority of you, optimistically calculated) all seem to be unable to grasp :-)
irony | 10:18 a.m. April 2, 2008
On the Standard of Liberty website there is a page by Janice Graham that gets to
the point. Their son Drew is gay but they sent him to therapy and now he is
`fixed'. She wrote a book "My Darling from the Lions. Compelling
journal entries reveal a mother�s life-changing spiritual
journey paralleling her son�s stuggle with and success in
overcoming pornography addiction and homosexual tendencies."
Jess | 10:24 a.m. April 2, 2008
Dear Personally,
You accuse Mormons of pushing our religion onto other people and recuriting them to our way of thinking. We are not the only religion that does this. Most every Church has some sort of missionaries that are trying to "recurit" people to our religion. We do not force our religion on anyone, or at least we shouldn't. When we send missionaries out, we are just offering people the chance to join our church, we are not forcing them, nor would we ever.
And not all the Mormons are intolerant as you seemed to think. I have two gay friends and I accept them for who they are. It doesn't make a bit of difference to me if they are gay, straight, bisexual, whatever. They're good people and nothing else matters besides that.
You accuse Mormons of pushing our religion onto other people and recuriting them to our way of thinking. We are not the only religion that does this. Most every Church has some sort of missionaries that are trying to "recurit" people to our religion. We do not force our religion on anyone, or at least we shouldn't. When we send missionaries out, we are just offering people the chance to join our church, we are not forcing them, nor would we ever.
And not all the Mormons are intolerant as you seemed to think. I have two gay friends and I accept them for who they are. It doesn't make a bit of difference to me if they are gay, straight, bisexual, whatever. They're good people and nothing else matters besides that.
Re: True Standards=Happiness | 10:54 a.m. April 2, 2008
Which �True Standards� do you refer?
Did the True and living prophets over the last 170 yrs tell you these True
Standards? How do you know they are True? How do you know that these True
Standards are the only path to Happiness? Hasn�t history
told you yet that your prophets make mistakes? Somehow in Mormondom, what is
unequivocally �True� only becomes
some general authorities �Opinion� in
the hindsight of history.
Happy living truth | 11:15 a.m. April 2, 2008
To 10:54,
I don't refer to you for true standards, that's for sure.
I don't refer to you for true standards, that's for sure.
Studies Not Needed | 11:38 a.m. April 2, 2008
I didn't need to know the result of some study or to be told by parents,
friends, teachers or the media that at a certain age (as a heterosexual male) I
was extremely attracted to the opposite sex. That folks was not a choice in any
stretch of the imagination. And in the exact same way, the desire toward the
same sex comes from the same innate, uncoerced, biological drive. Same sex
attraction admittedly is not the norm so it scares some. The thought of a free
black person back in 1775 was not the norm either and the thought of it created
fear and had many turning to their bibles for proof that blacks were born to be
owned. People, use your common God-given sense. Nothing is more of an innate
biological response than sexual attraction. It is not something you turn on or
off or just choose on a whim or can even be influenced into. No amount of media,
pictures, personal insecurity, or peer influences could have suddenly made me
desire to be with the same sex. Turn off your dogma and turn on your brain
PLEASE!!!
Hate Speech defined | 11:46 a.m. April 2, 2008
Quinns third law of liberalism.
Hatespeech is anything that Liberals disagree with or that is contrary to or does not support the liberal agenda.
So don't tell me how you feel. Tell me how I want you feel or else you are just hateful.
And because we abhorre sin does not mean we abhorre the sinner.
And to Kristen on her way out. I doubt you would be on your way out because of others. There is nothing that another person in this world can do if you continue to foster your testimony of the gospel. You alone are letting it die. Please take responsibility for your own actions and don't blame others. You know the other members are not perfect-just like you- so don't think you can hold them to a higher standard than you hold yourself. This even goes for your church leaders. They are just imperfect men called to postions of authority (that are tempted even greater than you).
Hatespeech is anything that Liberals disagree with or that is contrary to or does not support the liberal agenda.
So don't tell me how you feel. Tell me how I want you feel or else you are just hateful.
And because we abhorre sin does not mean we abhorre the sinner.
And to Kristen on her way out. I doubt you would be on your way out because of others. There is nothing that another person in this world can do if you continue to foster your testimony of the gospel. You alone are letting it die. Please take responsibility for your own actions and don't blame others. You know the other members are not perfect-just like you- so don't think you can hold them to a higher standard than you hold yourself. This even goes for your church leaders. They are just imperfect men called to postions of authority (that are tempted even greater than you).
have compassion for them | 11:59 a.m. April 2, 2008
Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone
The saddest thing about our conservative brothers and sisters is how methodically and meticulously they caste their aspersions, judge their fellow man, all the while pretending to be something they clearly are not - spiritually worthy.
Have compassion for these poor, judgemental fools.
The saddest thing about our conservative brothers and sisters is how methodically and meticulously they caste their aspersions, judge their fellow man, all the while pretending to be something they clearly are not - spiritually worthy.
Have compassion for these poor, judgemental fools.
Name Calling | 12:04 p.m. April 2, 2008
It's funny to see how many homosexuals scream at the top of their voices
how persecuted they are, how fear is used to discriminate against them and how
they are called names....
Have you stopped to read any of your own posts? Some of them are the most hate-filled and vile postings I've ever seen. And nope, after reading them I still wouldn't think about changing my stance that homosexuality is wrong.
Your plight is nowhere near the Civil Rights Movement no matter how much you try to make it.
Have you actually watched your Gay Pride Parades? Disgusting, revolting behavior. You want to be taken seriously then start acting a little more mature.
And the comments of How does my wanting a homosexual marriage or adoption affect my marriage just make me laugh. No one ever said you affect my marriage. You affect the family that God created with man and woman. That is the ideal. That is what is expected of mankind. You don't like it, take it up with God. His word is right there for you to read and understand.
I don't buy your argument. Society is falling apart because of the natural family breakdown.
Have you stopped to read any of your own posts? Some of them are the most hate-filled and vile postings I've ever seen. And nope, after reading them I still wouldn't think about changing my stance that homosexuality is wrong.
Your plight is nowhere near the Civil Rights Movement no matter how much you try to make it.
Have you actually watched your Gay Pride Parades? Disgusting, revolting behavior. You want to be taken seriously then start acting a little more mature.
And the comments of How does my wanting a homosexual marriage or adoption affect my marriage just make me laugh. No one ever said you affect my marriage. You affect the family that God created with man and woman. That is the ideal. That is what is expected of mankind. You don't like it, take it up with God. His word is right there for you to read and understand.
I don't buy your argument. Society is falling apart because of the natural family breakdown.
yes compassion please | 12:23 p.m. April 2, 2008
The saddest thing about our liberal brothers and sisters is how methodically and
they cast their aspertions, judge their fellow man, all the while pretending to
be something they aren't - spiritually worthy.
please have compassion on these poor, judgmental fools.
For proof of these comments, just read this blog. Funny how it is the liberals, homosexuals who judge and name call to those who disagree with their lifestyles. Yet they think they are open-minded and inclusive...only when someone has the same mindset as them. Otherwise....watch out....
please have compassion on these poor, judgmental fools.
For proof of these comments, just read this blog. Funny how it is the liberals, homosexuals who judge and name call to those who disagree with their lifestyles. Yet they think they are open-minded and inclusive...only when someone has the same mindset as them. Otherwise....watch out....
1 in 20 | 12:26 p.m. April 2, 2008
Kevin,
Where do you get your stats that 1 in 20 is homosexual? It never ceases to amaze how people will lie to make their case seem more important and correct...
As for the Proclamation being 'tweaked' in coming years....silly thought my friend...just look at how that Proclamtion has become reality. Even the elect will be deceived....Thanks to Isaiah who saw our time...evil will be called good and good called evil.
Truth is always truth, not matter the circumstances. God doesn't lower His standards because we humans aren't strong enough to live by them. We will get our just reward; nothing more, nothing less. It's all about obedience, the my will or wants or needs...but God's.
As for loving my homosexual neighbor and friend...always have, always will. doesn't mean I agree with their behavior. I've had lesbians babysit my children. I have neighbors who commit adultery...I still have BBQ's with them, but I don't agree with what they are doing. Support her MS effort each year.
It is you, the homosexuals, who can't love the neighbor who doesn't agree with your behavior. It is YOU. Go look in the mirror and see the hate you have for your neighbor!
Where do you get your stats that 1 in 20 is homosexual? It never ceases to amaze how people will lie to make their case seem more important and correct...
As for the Proclamation being 'tweaked' in coming years....silly thought my friend...just look at how that Proclamtion has become reality. Even the elect will be deceived....Thanks to Isaiah who saw our time...evil will be called good and good called evil.
Truth is always truth, not matter the circumstances. God doesn't lower His standards because we humans aren't strong enough to live by them. We will get our just reward; nothing more, nothing less. It's all about obedience, the my will or wants or needs...but God's.
As for loving my homosexual neighbor and friend...always have, always will. doesn't mean I agree with their behavior. I've had lesbians babysit my children. I have neighbors who commit adultery...I still have BBQ's with them, but I don't agree with what they are doing. Support her MS effort each year.
It is you, the homosexuals, who can't love the neighbor who doesn't agree with your behavior. It is YOU. Go look in the mirror and see the hate you have for your neighbor!
thank the conservatives | 12:29 p.m. April 2, 2008
yes compassion please 12:23 -
This is an excellent but intensely sad example of how the conservative mind works.
By holding a mirror up to themselves they see what they are, don't like it, and then like a magician's slight-of-hand move, turn the whole issue around and project their not-so-cleverly concealed personality quirks onto a different person, group, etc.
And of course, the word liberal (which has been thoroughly denigrated from the original Websters definition to a Rush Limbaugh-type political definition) is always in their someplace.
These Rush O'Hannity types are to be thanked, for they are bringing the American people back together again for a much, much better world than exists now.
This is an excellent but intensely sad example of how the conservative mind works.
By holding a mirror up to themselves they see what they are, don't like it, and then like a magician's slight-of-hand move, turn the whole issue around and project their not-so-cleverly concealed personality quirks onto a different person, group, etc.
And of course, the word liberal (which has been thoroughly denigrated from the original Websters definition to a Rush Limbaugh-type political definition) is always in their someplace.
These Rush O'Hannity types are to be thanked, for they are bringing the American people back together again for a much, much better world than exists now.
RangerGordon | 12:30 p.m. April 2, 2008
NameCalling: You can refuse to change your stance all you want. Gays can get
along quite well without your approval.
In fact, I prefer it when you people are outspokenly anti-gay; that makes it much easier to see the kind of person you really are.
I don't know where you got the idea that gays are seeking your approval. You can disapprove until you're blue in the face and tell us we're bad and stomp your feet all you like. No skin off our nose.
We only demand equal treatment under the law.
You people constantly claim that gays are a "threat to traditional marriage." Yet, you admit your marriages aren't threatened by gays.
How can that be? It's irrational, like all homophobia is.
In fact, I prefer it when you people are outspokenly anti-gay; that makes it much easier to see the kind of person you really are.
I don't know where you got the idea that gays are seeking your approval. You can disapprove until you're blue in the face and tell us we're bad and stomp your feet all you like. No skin off our nose.
We only demand equal treatment under the law.
You people constantly claim that gays are a "threat to traditional marriage." Yet, you admit your marriages aren't threatened by gays.
How can that be? It's irrational, like all homophobia is.
Heterophobia is Irrational | 12:56 p.m. April 2, 2008
RangerGordon,
You have equal treatment under the law.
What you want is special treatment, and exceptions to the law.
True, you are not a threat to traditional marriage, but only because we won't allow you to redefine what marriage is, and the morals it stands on.
You have equal treatment under the law.
What you want is special treatment, and exceptions to the law.
True, you are not a threat to traditional marriage, but only because we won't allow you to redefine what marriage is, and the morals it stands on.
Anonymous | 1:07 p.m. April 2, 2008
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for
selfishness.
-John Kenneth Galbraith
This description is quite evident in the postings above. You can find morality police by the sackful in Utah.
What a sad bunch they are!
-John Kenneth Galbraith
This description is quite evident in the postings above. You can find morality police by the sackful in Utah.
What a sad bunch they are!
my 2 cents | 1:09 p.m. April 2, 2008
I think it should be pointed out that the gay community in this country bears
some responsibility for the lack of acceptance that they face in society. I
have nothing against homosexuality as a lifestyle; but even moderates like
myself tend to take a second look at supporting gay rights when I see outrageous
public displays at gay parades, rallys and other events. I
don�t dislike gays and lesbians, but I do dislike open
promiscuity and the distasteful behavior and apparel exhibited publicly at these
events. If the gay community is serious about being accepted in mainstream
society, they would find more support by toning down the rhetoric, and
demonstrating to the rest of the country that they are no different from their
heterosexual counterparts.
RangerGordon | 1:19 p.m. April 2, 2008
Irrational:
If, as you've admitted, marriage equity doesn't harm heterosexual marriage, then there is no compelling reason to treat us differently under the law, and it's really not up to you to say whether or not marriage law applies to gay families simply because we offend your questionable ideas of who is moral and who isn't.
It's up to the courts.
If, as you've admitted, marriage equity doesn't harm heterosexual marriage, then there is no compelling reason to treat us differently under the law, and it's really not up to you to say whether or not marriage law applies to gay families simply because we offend your questionable ideas of who is moral and who isn't.
It's up to the courts.
Life | 1:25 p.m. April 2, 2008
I was threatened for my life in my last year of HS by the so called Jesus
Followers, I love the LDS Church, its the followers i dont understand he
preached love and acceptance even among the adulturers and sinners. He also said
forgive them father for they know not what they do. And D&C 64:10 says I
the lord will forgive whom i will forgive but of you it is required to forgive
all men. Doesnt that also mean Love?
RE:Kristen- Thank you for your words they made me want to cry to know that there are at least some decent people out there.
What if god doesnt exist all these people saying things in his name would just be proven wrong and gay people can have families its called adoption and invetro fertilization, some of the best families are from that.
And a Gay agenda just makes me laugh i am gay and i dont know anything of this sort besides wanting the same rights and not having to worry. I pay my taxes like everyone else so why cant i have the same rights?
RE:Kristen- Thank you for your words they made me want to cry to know that there are at least some decent people out there.
What if god doesnt exist all these people saying things in his name would just be proven wrong and gay people can have families its called adoption and invetro fertilization, some of the best families are from that.
And a Gay agenda just makes me laugh i am gay and i dont know anything of this sort besides wanting the same rights and not having to worry. I pay my taxes like everyone else so why cant i have the same rights?
Anonymous | 1:54 p.m. April 2, 2008
God is not full of hate like you hatemongers are. It will all come back to you
in another life.
You're logic is still irrational | 2:16 p.m. April 2, 2008
Ranger, ranger, ranger:
If you define marriage equity as everyone's right to have a traditional marriage under the law, then yes I admit that marriage equity does not harm marriage.
Don't blame me or the courts that you can't have all the privileges of marriage, including children. We can't be responsible for the sadness you choose by denying yourself marriage (Between a man and a woman) which is equally available to you.
If you define marriage equity as everyone's right to have a traditional marriage under the law, then yes I admit that marriage equity does not harm marriage.
Don't blame me or the courts that you can't have all the privileges of marriage, including children. We can't be responsible for the sadness you choose by denying yourself marriage (Between a man and a woman) which is equally available to you.
Hmmmmm... | 2:38 p.m. April 2, 2008
Who is it that is hateful? Take a look at the posts on these message boards.
Those who are against the �gay agenda� use the words: sinful, abomination, immoral, degrading, harmful, perversion, bad, weakness, unhealthy, wrong, consequences, contrary, alarming, unnatural, destructive, harmful, weird, abnormal. These clearly describe someone�s ACTIONS.
Those who are pushing the �gay agenda� use the words: intolerant, judgmental, hypocritical, homophobic, ignorant, close-minded, small-minded, hate-monger, hateful, fearful, venomous, profane, angry, bigoted, loons, clown, yahoos, lies, spiteful, discriminate, bible-thumpers, indecent, insecure, uneducated, utards, hostile, simple-minded, narrow-minded, nosy, animosity, repressed, vicious, crazy, evil, holier-than-thou, un-Christ like, irrational, zealot. These clearly attack the PERSON.
Now, please tell me - who is hateful?
Those who are against the �gay agenda� use the words: sinful, abomination, immoral, degrading, harmful, perversion, bad, weakness, unhealthy, wrong, consequences, contrary, alarming, unnatural, destructive, harmful, weird, abnormal. These clearly describe someone�s ACTIONS.
Those who are pushing the �gay agenda� use the words: intolerant, judgmental, hypocritical, homophobic, ignorant, close-minded, small-minded, hate-monger, hateful, fearful, venomous, profane, angry, bigoted, loons, clown, yahoos, lies, spiteful, discriminate, bible-thumpers, indecent, insecure, uneducated, utards, hostile, simple-minded, narrow-minded, nosy, animosity, repressed, vicious, crazy, evil, holier-than-thou, un-Christ like, irrational, zealot. These clearly attack the PERSON.
Now, please tell me - who is hateful?
It's a karma thing | 2:50 p.m. April 2, 2008
to: God is not full of hate -
How right you are!
Conservatives embrace the wrathful-god notion. The God that is perpetually angry and who sends people into everlasting hellfire - because HE loves them.
Conservatives LOVE that idea and try to be the same as their punitive Old Testament God.
Today's New Testament God is the complete opposite.
Open, caring, understanding, loving, not judgemental but accepting. Quite liberal actually.
The Old Testament variety of people are in for a rude awakening when they pass on. Their conservative, punitive and judgemental ways will catch up to them sooner or later. It's the way it is.
How right you are!
Conservatives embrace the wrathful-god notion. The God that is perpetually angry and who sends people into everlasting hellfire - because HE loves them.
Conservatives LOVE that idea and try to be the same as their punitive Old Testament God.
Today's New Testament God is the complete opposite.
Open, caring, understanding, loving, not judgemental but accepting. Quite liberal actually.
The Old Testament variety of people are in for a rude awakening when they pass on. Their conservative, punitive and judgemental ways will catch up to them sooner or later. It's the way it is.
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Quoting the bible is also ridiculous. The Christian Bible is not some universal rule book. and even if it were Jesus' greatest commandment given to man (after love the lord your god with all your heart, soul & mind, is "Love thy neighbor as they self." There were no qualifiers attached to this such as "unless they are gay, or black or poor or democrat"