Comments about ‘Gay 'agenda' targeted — Speakers in American Fork warn of dangers’

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Published: Tuesday, April 1 2008 12:18 a.m. MDT

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The Reality

There are about as many scientist or doctors left who think homosexuality is NOT genetic as those left who still think the world was created in the past 6,000 actual calender years. And yet religious dogma and fear hang on far beyond all rational logic and evidence. It took until 1974 until rational minds realized the outdated, bigotted stance towards blacks in the LDS Church had to change. The same change (ration cloaked as revelation for those who are still irrational and need to believe God said so) will eventually come regarding the reality of homosexuality and genetics. In the meantime, those who must be told what to think rather than how to think will continue to believe homosexuality is a perverse choice rather than a genetic disposition as natural as heterosexuality. However - I do agree with some comments that the public flamboyency could be turned down a notch (or three) in order for more to actually hear the message rather than be distracted or turned off by the display. And I say that to my very flamboyent gay friend all the time!

Holmes

There is no debate here.

As I have learned from experience, you can't reason and rationalize with people who are unreasonable and irrational.

Homosexuality is wrong on every plane and level. It's wrong biologically, spiritually, socially, economically; it's an unhealthy high risk lifestyle. There is no doubting these facts. With that said, there will always be people who justify it--- and they are irrational.

Paul

The law of Natural Selection which applies to all living things puts forth the selfish gene theory- that is: genes fight to get passed on to the next generation (survival). Through reproduction, your genes get passed to your offspring. Only the strong genes, or better said, the genes which promote a healthy species and survival of the offspring of the next generation are the genes which survive and propagate themselves through successive generations. It is a fundamental tenant of of evolution- only the strong genes survive- how does a homosexual gene fit into this law? That's what I thought, it doesn't. Learn, my children.. The homosexual gene, if there were such a thing would not make it into the next generation of offspring and therefore natural selection (or nature) would naturally eliminate that gene. As animals evolve, the genes which promote the strength and survival of the species are naturally selected. Homosexuality is in direct conflict with natural selection- which I believe was a liberal scientific theory. Hmmmmm.

Anonymous

I am sure homosexuality is "wrong" to you Holmes.
I was raised with a live-and-let-live life philosophy and quite secure with my sexuality.

I am afraid those who freak out at what complete strangers do in the privacy of their own homes may be trying to hide something they are afraid to face.

Suburbs of SLC

To my fellow church members - way to continue portraying the negativity of the church. Congratulations, you have successfully supported their beliefs about the intolerance and general stupidity of members of the church. It would be nice if they were given the opportunity to hear what is actually preached by the heads of the church, which are in fact love-filled messages, but why should they bother? You've already proven to them that regardless of the messages preached, the congregations aren't listening.

It's not our place to make laws restricting the rights of others to choose one lifestyle or another. The purpose of law is to protect one person from another. As homosexuals aren't doing anything to 'harm' another, that is outside the bounds of law. If you're worried the family is collapsing, and I agree that it is, you'd better rush back home to help build your family up. You have every right to teach your children what you believe. Leave it at that.

To Suburbs of SLC

Wrong answer...

We don't live in a vacuum- everything a person does affects everyone else. That's why we have laws. You say it does no harm. Yet, the social costs, health care costs, etc. are ever increasing and who pays those costs? It's hard to "build up my own family" when the money that I could spend on my own children goes toward the cost in tax dollars and increased health care premiums and social programs associated with so called "alternative lifestyles." You have no right to ask me to esentially subsidize immorality when I could use that money to "build up my family." Everything has an effect on everything else. The financial costs to any one individual may be small, but one dollar can't be in two places at once. I want that dollar to "build up my family" since I am a breeder an proud of it. Thank you, next.....

Kevin

Paul, and all those who think variations in sexual orientation cannot have any association with gene function, consider there a number of genetic disorders that result in crippling disabilities and/or death very early in life. E.g. Duchenne muscular dystrohpy. Bisexuals could also be responsible for passing on whatever gene or genes.

What's the phenotype anyway? There seem to be several states of sexual orientation. The onset of variations of sexual orientation could primarily happen at puberty, and may be a function exogenous factors.

Lastly, sexual orientation variations don't have to be genetic to be rooting in biology.

So, please. Think before you speak.

Same freedoms & rights for all

The real debate seems to be about free agency and rights:

As for free agency:

Anyone who can have sex, can freely choose to have gay sex, even if it is a sin. We are all free to sin.

As for rights:

Marriage is between a man and a woman. So whether you are a man or a woman you already have the right to get married. You just don't have the right to redefine marriage--and diminish what marriage is.

Conclusion:

The guilty take the truth to be hard, but the truth shall set you free. No one does us any favors by letting us wallow in sin. Happiness will never be found in Satan's imitations, no matter how close the mirage. The freedoms and rights to gain full happiness are already available to all; It is sad when we don't choose to take it.

Hiding something

Those who simply cannot get beyond this issue are not secure with their own sexuality and probably would be much better off trying to find out why this is.

Momof3

As a lesbian mother of 3, and a woman with a real and personal relationship with the Lord, I thank all of you who are able to approach this issue with a thinking mind and a loving heart.

To those of you who disagree with me, my lifestyle, and my family - you have every right to believe the way you believe and live the way you choose to live, please allow me the same. The ONLY One who knows all, will be my final judge -and yours.

Peace to all of you.

Rulan

Amazing how many people on here serve God as an adviser. Some of the things you quote him as saying, not saying, doing, not doing can't all be true as they're polar opposites.

I think he he referred to you when he said "I know them not".

Anonymous

Why are people so afraid of homosexuals. Are you afraid that they are going to break into your home and redecorate? Why the homophobia. When I was single I was like "more women for me." As a married man with children, I do not fear a homsexual running off with my wife. I do fear the pedophile but there is a difference between pedophile. I would not encourage my child into that lifestyle it is a hard one, as society does not accept it. I always have felt that people who are homophobic have homosexual tendancies that they are scared of. I am Mormon, however I love my children so much that as adults if they were to choose that lifestyle I would still love them the same. I truly believe Heavenly father loves them the same way I love my children. It is not your call to judge. Leave it in Heavenly Fathers hands.

Already spoken

To Mom of 3...Christ has already spoken on this issue. You are just choosing to ignore it. We all are sinners so that is nothing new. We all choose commandments we obey and willfully and unwillfully, disobey others. We just don't get to choose the consequence. Go read Mark 10 about Christ's words on marriage.

Rulan...maybe you could expand a little bit on your observations? It would be helpful if you listed the contradictions of Christ's words so we know what you are referring to. It's just helpful in the discussion.


Anonymous as usual gets the debate wrong. The debate isn't that anyone is "afraid" of homosexuals. The debate is whether or not the behavior is right or wrong. I really don't care if you are Mormon or not, because it has nothing to do with the debate either.

According to scripture, the behavior is wrong and should be turned away from. Also, if you are a parent, then you will understand that one can love their children very much and not agree with or approve of their child's behavior.

Sure, there are people who hate homosexuals just like there are people who hate (fill in the blank)

Already spoken 2

Continued.... It is not possible to love the individual and not approve of the person's behavior? Sure it is. You make that judgment everyday.

You say a lifestyle that society doesn't accept. I'd say it's a behavior that Christ doesn't accept and has told us not to embrace. I always find it interesting how people can completely distance themselves from scripture that doesn't coincide with their own mortal thinking.

However, Christ told us that His ways are higher than ours and His thoughts are greater than ours.

The rest of your post is ridiculous and without merit or foundation. In actuality it is just plain stupid.

Heavenly Father loves everyone, that's why you are on this earth. However, He doesn't like it when His children disobey His commandments.

It is our responsibility to make judgments everyday. To say otherwise is showing a lack of knowledge about scripture and life. If your neighbor is a known killer of young children, would you allow your child to go play at their house? Of course not. But why are you judging him?

Homosexuality is a behavior that is not congruent with the teachings of Christ. Plain and simple. Live them or not!

re: Same Freedoms

Amen, amen, amen!!!

Marriage is not going to redefined just because a few people want it to be so it goes along with their way of life.

Amen about the guilty taketh the truth to be hard. Anyone with half a brain should realize and use their common sense that it's a man and woman who make a family and have kids...there is just no other possible way. Period.

Personally, I think all gays should move to an island and they can make their own laws and we no longer have to worry about our kids watching such wayward ways of life.

Theocracy


You contradict your self.
You say,
The debate isn't that anyone is "afraid" of homosexuals. The debate is whether or not the behavior is right or wrong. I really don't care if you are Mormon or not, because it has nothing to do with the debate either.

But later on you state that,
According to scripture, the behavior is wrong and should be turned away from.

So isnt scripture part of a religion and isnt mormonism a religion so you really dont make yourself clear on that. Religion shouldnt have any saying on this what if god didnt even exist or have anything to do on this matter where would you be then? And if your so religious how can you judge someone when you know that god and jesus are the only ones who can.

How will we redefine the meaning of marriage the concept of marriage is two people who are in love. And marriage has already been killed by people who get married for 56 hours then get a divorce so how can we destroy it by letting two people who are in love show it?

jane

I am a member of the religious majority here but I could care less what the gays are doing in their personal lives. They are not affecting my family or my family values. When my kids grandmother went through a "gay phase" a few years back all I needed to know is that she is a good woman and she loves my kids.

To Theocracy

Sorry for the confusion. To answer your question, I'd be right where I am now. Why?

"For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God."

Each of us knows what is right and wrong so choose accordingly.

However, their is a God, always has been, always will be. I hope you learn more of God's word and follow it and understand it.

The way has been set forth by God. It's there for you to follow and be a part of...plain, simple, easy to understand. None of the arguments mean anything because they are contrary to the word of God. And anything contrary to the will of God is against God. We can't serve 2 masters.... right?

RE;To Theocracy

I am LDS and Gay and i know God still loves me no matter what happens. The word of god has been changed and made impure by man. Through out the ages of time the bible has been translated into different languages and by different people. If we were to follow the word of god, people would be stoned out in the street. The world would be different than it would today.
Times change for a reason. There is always a solution to problems to, IE: over popluation of the world, it might not be in the bible of how god planned the solution but it is meant to be by god because back then there wasnt as many people on the earth as there are today.
And how do you know what god is thinking today he has not released a current version of the bible within the last 2000 years has he?

To Theocracy

You are absolutely correct; God does love you. I certainly have never said that He doesn't. I will say that if you are acting on your homosexual behavioral urges, then He is very disappointed in your choice to sin. Just as He is when I make a choice to sin; whatever it is.

Thou shalt not commit adultery/fornication.

Leave mother and father and cleave unto thy wife.

I have studied tremendously the origins of the New Testament. I could refer numerous books and scholarly papers for you to read.

That still doesn't give you or me an excuse to ignore the commandments. If you are LDS, then surely you've read the same commandments in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants.

YOu want a current version of the Bible? Well, listen to conference this weekend. Tell me what His prophet and apostles tell us. Go read all that has been said about fidelity.

There is not such thing as over population. It is a lie spread by selfish people who don't understand the plan of happiness created by God.

There is no justification for sin; we truly deceive ourselves with self-justification. Christ will tell us you should've obeyed.

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