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Mormon Media Observer: Mormons have been framed — again
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David in CA | 3:29 p.m. March 31, 2008
I did not see the TV program.
If the program did indeed project the old
negative stereotypes being discussed in this
story, SHAME on ABC News' ability to
be objective.
Good Journalism presents UN-Biased infomation
so that the viewers can make good decisions
and make THEIR OWN DECISION based on the info.
When media journalism "makes the decisions"
already for the viewers, then it deserves
an "F" grade.
Good Journalism presents Facts, NOT Opinions!!!
It's realized that many people in the media are
bothered by the High Standards presented by
and expected by members of the LDS Church.
Could that enter a Reason for a
"distorted" "spinned" version of the
presentation of raw data?? I hope not,
but one must wonder about that
"spin/distortion".
If the program did indeed project the old
negative stereotypes being discussed in this
story, SHAME on ABC News' ability to
be objective.
Good Journalism presents UN-Biased infomation
so that the viewers can make good decisions
and make THEIR OWN DECISION based on the info.
When media journalism "makes the decisions"
already for the viewers, then it deserves
an "F" grade.
Good Journalism presents Facts, NOT Opinions!!!
It's realized that many people in the media are
bothered by the High Standards presented by
and expected by members of the LDS Church.
Could that enter a Reason for a
"distorted" "spinned" version of the
presentation of raw data?? I hope not,
but one must wonder about that
"spin/distortion".
James | 3:38 p.m. March 31, 2008
Never have so many written so much containing so few answers. Utah is NOT a
depressing and some insightful commentary here saw that lie. 60% LDS and
declining is due to the influx of expatriates from Detroit and the like, now
enjoying what Utah has to offer. It is NOT because people are leaving the
Church. Utah really IS a great place.
I left California 25 years ago and count my blessings every day when I fill my glass with clear, good tasting tap water. Generally one can see for miles and miles and the air is sweet.
Active LDS or not, the problem is the "All About Me" generation who attends church and pays tithes and offerings then EXPECTS instant riches and blessings, and becomes depressed when they still have to work for them. Blessings for obedience are often hard to see, particularly when it is common practice to pray for eggs, and upon receiving eggs get depressed because they are not prepared to ones liking.
YES, depression is a disease, and treatable in large part. I count among my blessings that my occasional periods of anxiety don't bloom into depression. The answer is on "T"shirts everywhere. COWBOY UP!
I left California 25 years ago and count my blessings every day when I fill my glass with clear, good tasting tap water. Generally one can see for miles and miles and the air is sweet.
Active LDS or not, the problem is the "All About Me" generation who attends church and pays tithes and offerings then EXPECTS instant riches and blessings, and becomes depressed when they still have to work for them. Blessings for obedience are often hard to see, particularly when it is common practice to pray for eggs, and upon receiving eggs get depressed because they are not prepared to ones liking.
YES, depression is a disease, and treatable in large part. I count among my blessings that my occasional periods of anxiety don't bloom into depression. The answer is on "T"shirts everywhere. COWBOY UP!
Comments continue below
Geez! | 3:58 p.m. March 31, 2008
For someone to assume that depression is the result of sin is like going back in
time to the dark ages. Perhaps all depressed people are witches and should be
burned at the take. Give me a break, but this is 2008.
Janis | 3:53 p.m. March 31, 2008
Everyone else can use cigarettes, or liquor or pornography to escape life and
its depressing aspects. Certainly those things are more healthy than getting
medical help for depression. LDS women are educated and seek help. They are
smart and capable and do what they can to be healthy. We are used to criticism
and stereotypes and so many others are willing to use those "ideas" as
facts. That's fine. We will continue to be intelligent and seek the help
we need.
For "Simple" | 3:54 p.m. March 31, 2008
I cannot resist refuting this:
"For most other people it is simply a financial death knell to pay tithing. Wealthy people, outside of our church, who give 10% away ADVERTISE their ability to do this. I think the quickest cure for rates of depression is to give most members a reduced tithin rate (0% for the first 40K, 5% for 40-100K, then 10% above that)"
You missed the mark, as most on the fringes do. A sliding scale tithing is not tithing at all, it is a donation. We tithe because we know it teaches sacrifice and allows us not to place such a high value on the money race. GOD does not need our money. Rather, WE need to give for the sake of giving.
Our chaple is half full of non-tithe payers and are welcomed with open arms, as are those who smell of smoke or scotch, or who have tatoos on their necks and missing pieces of teeth thanks to other addictions. Worship is just that, plain and simple, offering our time and attendance at church. Active participation in all other phases of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is like post graduate work.
"For most other people it is simply a financial death knell to pay tithing. Wealthy people, outside of our church, who give 10% away ADVERTISE their ability to do this. I think the quickest cure for rates of depression is to give most members a reduced tithin rate (0% for the first 40K, 5% for 40-100K, then 10% above that)"
You missed the mark, as most on the fringes do. A sliding scale tithing is not tithing at all, it is a donation. We tithe because we know it teaches sacrifice and allows us not to place such a high value on the money race. GOD does not need our money. Rather, WE need to give for the sake of giving.
Our chaple is half full of non-tithe payers and are welcomed with open arms, as are those who smell of smoke or scotch, or who have tatoos on their necks and missing pieces of teeth thanks to other addictions. Worship is just that, plain and simple, offering our time and attendance at church. Active participation in all other phases of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is like post graduate work.
Chris Plummer | 6:40 p.m. March 31, 2008
Reading in these comments that depression is a tool of Satan is laughable.
Wow... how convenient that satan is there to take the blame for all bad things
that happen.
Anonymous | 7:07 p.m. March 31, 2008
Depression is not limited to just LDS but all men. Different situations bring on
the depression, sometimes it is misdiagnosed and or should be treated naturally
if possible. I know more none LDS people with depression, I don't usually
keep up with statistics because they are not completely factual. I've never
been asked to take a survey.
Interesting that people within the church are going to blame the arrogance of others in the church rather than ignore the ignorant.
Interesting that people within the church are going to blame the arrogance of others in the church rather than ignore the ignorant.
Kent | 7:40 p.m. March 31, 2008
I have counted so many of you who dismiss research and statistics out of hand
with such claims as "they are not completely factual."
Excuse me? And YOUR ideosynchratic experience ("I know a lot more non-LDS who are depressed")and anecdotal evidence is somehow MORE factual and truthful and accurate?
What do they put in the water in Utah?
Excuse me? And YOUR ideosynchratic experience ("I know a lot more non-LDS who are depressed")and anecdotal evidence is somehow MORE factual and truthful and accurate?
What do they put in the water in Utah?
Ah yes | 8:34 p.m. March 31, 2008
Wasn't it just in the last 10 years that utah was identified as one of the
states with over the counter drug abuse? Phen-Phen also gave rise to many small
town users exploiting what they knew was abuse but continued even though they
had warning after warning of the effects. At present there is a whole generation
reaping the negatives from this drug and show up to a clinic near you. Beauty ,
yes but what was never acknowledged was the effect such drugs have on the
spirit. Now the cost will be added up along with the lifes lost so foolishly all
for the beauty which is so very fleeting. So for society still is lost in one
pill being able to heal what ever ails man. It's the spirit that counts as
there are many in all religious beliefs who really know happiness and can't
be bought, for how could one sell such a thing when it is only attainable by
spiritual living.
The Devil ...huh? | 8:52 p.m. March 31, 2008
The devil has nothing to do with depression. GOOD GRIEF!
If a person gets depressed over a death of a loved one , chemical imbalances in the body, or bad physical health, or perhaps a brain injury, or what ever. Does this mean the Devil gave these people this problem? Well,HECK NO! You people who believe this are giving the Devil too much credit. You forget that he has no power to do such things. He doesn't even have a body so that he can go up and punch someone in the face. He's helpless unless you choose to do evil. Depressed people do not choose to be that way. This is not medieval times folks.
If a person gets depressed over a death of a loved one , chemical imbalances in the body, or bad physical health, or perhaps a brain injury, or what ever. Does this mean the Devil gave these people this problem? Well,HECK NO! You people who believe this are giving the Devil too much credit. You forget that he has no power to do such things. He doesn't even have a body so that he can go up and punch someone in the face. He's helpless unless you choose to do evil. Depressed people do not choose to be that way. This is not medieval times folks.
Jolene | 8:59 p.m. March 31, 2008
Mormon beliefs about medical ailments are so distorted it is laughable. Demonic
possession? Angelic healings?
The Word of Wisdom is used as an excuse for all manner of fanatic health scams. I have a neighbor who would not take the medicine a doctor prescribed for his heart. He probably won't survive the week, all because of his silly religious superstitions.
How many teenagers are being denied the appropriate medication because their fanatic parents think they have sinned instead of identifying the symptoms of depression or ADD or some other medical condition? How many parents are abusing their children by telling them to just "cowboy up!" and fix themselves?
For a group of people who have a mandate from God to relieve the suffering of other human beings, I have never before encountered such antithetical ideologies!
Your false beliefs are HURTING people!
The Word of Wisdom is used as an excuse for all manner of fanatic health scams. I have a neighbor who would not take the medicine a doctor prescribed for his heart. He probably won't survive the week, all because of his silly religious superstitions.
How many teenagers are being denied the appropriate medication because their fanatic parents think they have sinned instead of identifying the symptoms of depression or ADD or some other medical condition? How many parents are abusing their children by telling them to just "cowboy up!" and fix themselves?
For a group of people who have a mandate from God to relieve the suffering of other human beings, I have never before encountered such antithetical ideologies!
Your false beliefs are HURTING people!
Agreed | 10:15 p.m. March 31, 2008
A picture of a woman with her head leaning against a wall with a vial of pills
and the Salt Lake Temple in the background? Nope, no negative connotations
there....
What a bunch of journalistic crap!
Is depression "rampant" among LDS members? I doubt it's any more prevalant than among non-LDS members, I suspect even less. Now, the "percentage" of LDS members reporting they're depressed to their doctors compared to other religious faiths? Who knows?
Can LDS members be depressed? Absolutely. Anyone who knows what is right, in any context, and chooses not to do it, will become unhappy. Like the children of Israel in Moses' day told to look at the serpent, its really quite simple but many people overlook it because they can't fathom that the basics of happiness lie in simple obedience (notice I said the "basics" of happiness...some of us with medically caused psychological problems may need a medical boost). Obedience (which includes obedience with a good attitude) = happiness and disobedience (which includes obeying with a bad attitude) = sorrow.
The caravan moves on!
What a bunch of journalistic crap!
Is depression "rampant" among LDS members? I doubt it's any more prevalant than among non-LDS members, I suspect even less. Now, the "percentage" of LDS members reporting they're depressed to their doctors compared to other religious faiths? Who knows?
Can LDS members be depressed? Absolutely. Anyone who knows what is right, in any context, and chooses not to do it, will become unhappy. Like the children of Israel in Moses' day told to look at the serpent, its really quite simple but many people overlook it because they can't fathom that the basics of happiness lie in simple obedience (notice I said the "basics" of happiness...some of us with medically caused psychological problems may need a medical boost). Obedience (which includes obedience with a good attitude) = happiness and disobedience (which includes obeying with a bad attitude) = sorrow.
The caravan moves on!
to kent: | 10:22 p.m. March 31, 2008
Wow, those are some big bold jargons you use. It never said that personal
experiences of those I know with depression were more factual, truthful and
acurate. I just stated that stats have never included me and also they could be
misleading because there are plenty that haven't been diagnosed by a
doctor.
Liars! | 10:28 p.m. March 31, 2008
HEY GUYS! I quit going to church because I didn't have a testimony. I was
tired of pretending I had one so I left and went inactive. To my not so
wonderful surprise! the Relief Society President spread it all around the
neighborhood and ward that I left the church because I was depressed...LOL! I
have never suffered depression. Only when I was being a fake member of the
church. I really dislike people who make up lies.
Betsy | 10:46 p.m. March 31, 2008
As a single woman in Utah. I was misdiagnosed with depression. In reality it
was ADHT. Women are often under-treated in ADHT. Some of the symptoms of
depression mimic ADHT. Furthermore as a single woman I have never felt less
than in the church. If anything I am strengthened by the teachings. While I
agree people because we are all sinners it is tough dealing with people at
church. It is my experience if there is conflict with other members it is
two-sided. Fault on both sides.
Miss Direction | 11:59 p.m. March 31, 2008
It's this, it's them, it's you it's me. It's
depresson, it's a lack of love period. You need love, go out and love
someone else, really love them. The only way to find love is to love someone
else, once you find love you will never be depressed again and you find it when
you truely give love to someone else. It doesn't matter who, where, when,
just love them with all your heart all your mind and all your soul and there
love will be.
Oh ho ho . . . | 6:31 a.m. April 1, 2008
the MORMONS think they've been framed!
At least Bill Clinton didn't make them all slaves when they multiplied their population too fast!
At least George Bush didn't put them in arenas to be eaten by animals or use them as torches or force them to meet underground!
At least Hillary's not running on a mormon-killing agenda! At least one of her campaign promises isn't to drive the mormons out of America!
Sounds to me like mormons have it pretty easy.
At least Bill Clinton didn't make them all slaves when they multiplied their population too fast!
At least George Bush didn't put them in arenas to be eaten by animals or use them as torches or force them to meet underground!
At least Hillary's not running on a mormon-killing agenda! At least one of her campaign promises isn't to drive the mormons out of America!
Sounds to me like mormons have it pretty easy.
Roger | 9:01 a.m. April 1, 2008
How depressed mormons are I do not know, but I know for me mormons are very
depressing people.
monstrous | 9:11 a.m. April 1, 2008
Any organization that puts itself before the individual - that organization is a
monstrous one.
Anonymous | 12:32 p.m. April 1, 2008
You are right on, Jolene! Well said!
Yep! | 3:14 p.m. April 1, 2008
I think antidepressant are making the pharmaceutical companies extremely
wealthy, as are all drugs they push out there to everyone. If they don't
help you feel better for a SHORT time they will end up killing you. Too many
drugs and too many people die from them, and this includes Prescribed drugs. No
doctor is going to tell you that he/she accidentally killed one of your family
members with a drug that he or she knew absolutely nothing about. Doctors
don't know whats in those drugs anymore than you or I. It looks to me like
they are all controlled by the government. There is no hope for a hopeless
society. We are domed!!
Clark Roger | 11:54 a.m. April 2, 2008
To Jolene - Sorry, but your perspective is ludicrous. I have been LDS my entire
life and I have NEVER heard a General Authority or bishop explain illness as a
demonic possession. Not only that, your words contradict this entire discussion.
From your perspective, LDS people are rufusing to take medications because of
the Word of Wisdom? Yet, many others are saying LDS people are taking too many
drugs. Does anyone else see a contradiction?
To Liars! 10:28 p.m. - You claim to be happier, now that you're no longer LDS. My question is, will you become like many other ex-Mormons I know who have decided to consume themselves with a lifetime of bitterness and hate? I know people who left Mormonism many years ago, but they act as though it happened yesterday. How is this being happier?
To Roger 9:01 a.m. - Yes, I know a lot of depressed LDS people too. But for every depressed Latter-day Saint, I know many, many others who refuse to let Internet trollers, Temple Square protestors, hateful work supervisors or classmates, and so-called journalists, dictate to them how they should feel. The happiest people are those who can look outside themselves.
To Liars! 10:28 p.m. - You claim to be happier, now that you're no longer LDS. My question is, will you become like many other ex-Mormons I know who have decided to consume themselves with a lifetime of bitterness and hate? I know people who left Mormonism many years ago, but they act as though it happened yesterday. How is this being happier?
To Roger 9:01 a.m. - Yes, I know a lot of depressed LDS people too. But for every depressed Latter-day Saint, I know many, many others who refuse to let Internet trollers, Temple Square protestors, hateful work supervisors or classmates, and so-called journalists, dictate to them how they should feel. The happiest people are those who can look outside themselves.
Spencer | 3:14 p.m. April 2, 2008
To Clark Roger,
Are you familiar with the Word of Wisdom? Nowhere in the WofW does if forbid taking anti-depressants. So, your criticism of Jolene is stupid. She has a good point. Many LDS people get caught up in extremes and fanaticism. That is her point. It is a good one. Indeed, your blind defense of all things LDS is a form of fanaticism in its own right.
Are you familiar with the Word of Wisdom? Nowhere in the WofW does if forbid taking anti-depressants. So, your criticism of Jolene is stupid. She has a good point. Many LDS people get caught up in extremes and fanaticism. That is her point. It is a good one. Indeed, your blind defense of all things LDS is a form of fanaticism in its own right.
Tammy H | 5:27 p.m. April 2, 2008
Clark Roger,
I left the church a few years back and know longer put up with all the GOSSIP and FALSE TALEBEARERS. What a relief it has been for me and I am not depressed in any way shape or form to your dismay. I love life and people. However, an exception for people like you who are way beyond arrogance. I agree with LIARS...I went through similar experiences.
I left the church a few years back and know longer put up with all the GOSSIP and FALSE TALEBEARERS. What a relief it has been for me and I am not depressed in any way shape or form to your dismay. I love life and people. However, an exception for people like you who are way beyond arrogance. I agree with LIARS...I went through similar experiences.
Dr. Taylor | 8:20 a.m. April 3, 2008
As a psychiatrist, I have treated depression for over 15 years. Depression can
be chemically/biologically based, but in my experience, it can also originate or
be exacerbated by feelings of guilt. Guilt comes from feeling that your actions
are not consistent with standards, values, and expectations.
The LDS Church (as well as other religions) teaches standards and values that are complex and difficult. They enforce these standards and values through social pressure, programs, and measurements. For instance, members of the Church are expected to attend all their meetings , the temple, pray alone and with family multiple times per day, read scriptures individually and with family daily, pay tithes and offerings, as well as a host of other activities associated with visiting/home teaching, callings, and so forth.
Because these demands are so great, members of the Church are constantly in a state of guilt. This becomes chronic and increases the probability and incidence of depression and/or exacerbates any biological or chemical depression that may occur �naturally�. Members feel chronically inadequate, and seek validation through Church activities, further reinforcing not only their feelings of guilt, but also their emotional and psychological dependence on the Church. It becomes a vicious cycle.
The LDS Church (as well as other religions) teaches standards and values that are complex and difficult. They enforce these standards and values through social pressure, programs, and measurements. For instance, members of the Church are expected to attend all their meetings , the temple, pray alone and with family multiple times per day, read scriptures individually and with family daily, pay tithes and offerings, as well as a host of other activities associated with visiting/home teaching, callings, and so forth.
Because these demands are so great, members of the Church are constantly in a state of guilt. This becomes chronic and increases the probability and incidence of depression and/or exacerbates any biological or chemical depression that may occur �naturally�. Members feel chronically inadequate, and seek validation through Church activities, further reinforcing not only their feelings of guilt, but also their emotional and psychological dependence on the Church. It becomes a vicious cycle.
Jan | 8:53 a.m. April 3, 2008
DR Taylor
You absolutely and perfectly correct!! No one could have said it better.
You absolutely and perfectly correct!! No one could have said it better.
James | 8:48 a.m. April 3, 2008
Dr Taylor NO No no you miss the mark just like a few others here! The Gospel
of Jesus Christ is NOT complex and difficult. It makes things better not worse
IF saints will not expect instant gratification for living a particular standard
or commandment. The depression comes into play when one cannot see, or refuses
to see the often muted and soft hues of the blessings all around them. Changes
in ones life come slowly in most cases. God rejoices in small steps. If a new,
or reactivated Latter-day Saint can attend one meeting a month for now, he or
she will be blessed for it. Soon additional attendance comes from a desire to
meet with the Saints more often. If a family can start with prayer over a
Sunday dinner, soon the desire to pray more often will follow. Prayer multiple
times daily is not commanded, rather God expects that as ones love for Him grows
that frequency of prayer will also grow. Increased activity in all the areas
you mention come one step at a time and should not be an aggravation to the
Saints causing depression upon self examination. Small steps Learn to
recognize God's providence.
Nancy J K | 9:50 a.m. April 3, 2008
Re : James No no no! my friend YOU have it wrong!
If you can live the LDS life style then that is good for you, but not everyone can live inside a cocoon and survive. Most humans like to know that they can live their own lives without dictatorship. You are not seeing Dr Taylors point of view only your own which doesn't surprise me. Your point of view is selfish and one sided.
If you can live the LDS life style then that is good for you, but not everyone can live inside a cocoon and survive. Most humans like to know that they can live their own lives without dictatorship. You are not seeing Dr Taylors point of view only your own which doesn't surprise me. Your point of view is selfish and one sided.
Anne | 10:09 a.m. April 3, 2008
I am one of the once medicated. Raising children can be very lonely and
isolating which do indeed trigger depression. Mormon women are often pressured
into staying at home. So that this population has issues with depression comes
as no surprise. Being a stay-at-home mom was fine when mom and grandma lived in
the home, but that isn't the case anymore. Instead women sit at home all
day alone with children with family perhaps a thousand miles away.
Ken | 10:22 a.m. April 3, 2008
James...WOW you are just the kind a guy who could send the whole world in
depression if they all listened to you. It should be a persons own personal
decision how to lives ones life... NOT THE CHURCHES! God gave us all minds
believe it or not? and to use them as well! No one else needs to tell another
person how to live their life unless they desire it. People like you make me
depressed reading what you wrote. I see nothing spiritual about your comment.
you are right, James | 11:04 a.m. April 3, 2008
living the Gospel is its own reward, but until you do live it you won't
experience the joy that inevitably follows.
Everyone has a great deal to be grateful for along with the challenges in life. Which you focus on (or obsess over) makes a lot of difference in how happy you are.
The Gospel gives a great leg up by providing the proper (eternal) perspective by which to evaluate the blessing and challenges life presents.
by the way, hate to spoil everyones party but all these posts run on the assumption that LDS is more prone to depression, which the article in question nor anything else has demonstrated.
Dr Taylor, if you are a doctor, you should treat your patients based on actual factual evidence and not anecdotal hearsay and prejudice.
KEN- of course people decide, but the church I attend gives counsel and guidance to help me make an informed decision. If your church is forcing you to live your life in a way you are not comfortable with you should go elsewhere.
Everyone has a great deal to be grateful for along with the challenges in life. Which you focus on (or obsess over) makes a lot of difference in how happy you are.
The Gospel gives a great leg up by providing the proper (eternal) perspective by which to evaluate the blessing and challenges life presents.
by the way, hate to spoil everyones party but all these posts run on the assumption that LDS is more prone to depression, which the article in question nor anything else has demonstrated.
Dr Taylor, if you are a doctor, you should treat your patients based on actual factual evidence and not anecdotal hearsay and prejudice.
KEN- of course people decide, but the church I attend gives counsel and guidance to help me make an informed decision. If your church is forcing you to live your life in a way you are not comfortable with you should go elsewhere.
M. Haynes | 11:24 a.m. April 3, 2008
Dr Taylor: If all you have is a hammer soon everything starts to look like a
nail.
Perhaps you are seeing what you want in your patients and not what they are actually experiencing.
Have you personally ever experienced joy through religious observance and practice? I think most people find it greatly rewarding, those who do not usually move on.
Perhaps you are seeing what you want in your patients and not what they are actually experiencing.
Have you personally ever experienced joy through religious observance and practice? I think most people find it greatly rewarding, those who do not usually move on.
To One Sided People | 11:49 a.m. April 3, 2008
Dr Taylor,
Don't listen to some of the uneducated numb sculls on here. You are a man of knowledge and many of us agree with you. RIGHT ON!
Don't listen to some of the uneducated numb sculls on here. You are a man of knowledge and many of us agree with you. RIGHT ON!
Ken Jackson | 12:13 p.m. April 3, 2008
"Sir Isaac Newton" had it all right. One example;
�for every action there is an opposite and equal
reaction..." What "ABC" and every other "news"
organization in this imperfect world fail to consider - because they do not have
all the FACTS and could not have because they are "in" the world as
well as "of" the world - is quite simply that there is so much more to
the story than appears. "Framing" a story then can only be
accomplished with known "facts" then biased by prejudice and strong
desires to stand out amongst peers. Members of the LDS Church have
"unique" problems because they have a "unique" way of living
�in� the world but not
�of� it. They do this while remaining
very much human, fallible, weak, frail, yet burning inside them is something
truly different, a testimony of Divine truthfulness. The Savior said: "Be
ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." (New
Testament KJV Matthew Ch 5 v 48) If he meant to do that right now, even in life,
then literally hundreds of thousands would simply "vanish" as they
were translated. My opinion, but no man has taught it to me.
Double talk | 12:33 p.m. April 3, 2008
Spencer - Oh, I see. So Mormons are refusing to take anti-depressents because of
some fanatical Word of Wisdom belief, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, they're sucking
down anti-depressants like there is no tomorrow. HUH???
Tammy H. - You clearly haven't been a regular visitor to the dozens and dozens of popular anti-mormon websites out there, where bitter ex-mormons write all kinds of cruel and dishonest things about LDS Church members and leaders. And guess what, Clark Roger is RIGHT. Without exception, the ex-Mormons I know are some of the most hateful, vindictive people I have ever met.
One ex-mormon I use to work with, here in Utah I might add, would do NOTHING but complain, ridicule and make fun of the LDS Church and its members. When a few of us complained to HR, they told us if they didn't like what he said, we should just quit.
You might be the exception Tammy H., but believe me, you are then only the exception.
Tammy H. - You clearly haven't been a regular visitor to the dozens and dozens of popular anti-mormon websites out there, where bitter ex-mormons write all kinds of cruel and dishonest things about LDS Church members and leaders. And guess what, Clark Roger is RIGHT. Without exception, the ex-Mormons I know are some of the most hateful, vindictive people I have ever met.
One ex-mormon I use to work with, here in Utah I might add, would do NOTHING but complain, ridicule and make fun of the LDS Church and its members. When a few of us complained to HR, they told us if they didn't like what he said, we should just quit.
You might be the exception Tammy H., but believe me, you are then only the exception.
Clark Roger | 12:45 p.m. April 3, 2008
To Spencer - 3:14 p.m. said, "Are you familiar with the Word of Wisdom?
Nowhere in the WofW does if forbid taking anti-depressants."
YES, I am very familiar with the Word of Wisdom. And yes, I know the Word of Wisdom does not forbid anti-depressants. My question is, who ever said it did?
"So, your criticism of Jolene is stupid. She has a good point. Many LDS people get caught up in extremes and fanaticism. That is her point."
Sorry, but Jolene's point is not a good one, because there are many LDS Church members who take medication for all kinds of things. I have never once heard of a Latter-day Saint dying because they refused to take a medication, thinking it violated the WofW. Are you sure you're not confsing us with Christian Scientists?
"Indeed, your blind defense of all things LDS is a form of fanaticism in its own right."
That's a pretty cheap, but typical attack on LDS people. I've lost count how many times someone has made a false allegation against the LDS Church, then when I attempt to correct them, I'm either called blind, stupid or fanatical. Can you say, pot calling the kettle, black?
YES, I am very familiar with the Word of Wisdom. And yes, I know the Word of Wisdom does not forbid anti-depressants. My question is, who ever said it did?
"So, your criticism of Jolene is stupid. She has a good point. Many LDS people get caught up in extremes and fanaticism. That is her point."
Sorry, but Jolene's point is not a good one, because there are many LDS Church members who take medication for all kinds of things. I have never once heard of a Latter-day Saint dying because they refused to take a medication, thinking it violated the WofW. Are you sure you're not confsing us with Christian Scientists?
"Indeed, your blind defense of all things LDS is a form of fanaticism in its own right."
That's a pretty cheap, but typical attack on LDS people. I've lost count how many times someone has made a false allegation against the LDS Church, then when I attempt to correct them, I'm either called blind, stupid or fanatical. Can you say, pot calling the kettle, black?
Live it or Leave it! | 12:50 p.m. April 3, 2008
The LDS church is good for some , but NOT FOR ALL.
To "Dr." Taylor | 12:54 p.m. April 3, 2008
"Dr." Taylor,
Just because you claim to be a psychiatrist, doesn't make you anaylsis correct.
I know there's a lot of jealously out there, of people whose own lives are empty and shallow. These people hate the fact there are others out there who are happier than they are. Worse, the fact that many of these people belong to a church which promotes traditional families, honesty, thrift, and avoidance of R-rated movies, porn and booze.
I wish people who attacked the LDS Church were just a little more honest. This whole debate has nothing to do with depression, but has everything to do with people attacking a religion they're jealous of.
Just because you claim to be a psychiatrist, doesn't make you anaylsis correct.
I know there's a lot of jealously out there, of people whose own lives are empty and shallow. These people hate the fact there are others out there who are happier than they are. Worse, the fact that many of these people belong to a church which promotes traditional families, honesty, thrift, and avoidance of R-rated movies, porn and booze.
I wish people who attacked the LDS Church were just a little more honest. This whole debate has nothing to do with depression, but has everything to do with people attacking a religion they're jealous of.
Jump in a lake! | 1:36 p.m. April 3, 2008
GeezZZZZ! If the L.D.S. church makes people depressed than you guys should leave
it at once and skip the DRUGS antidepressants. Who needs drugs anyway? It's
ridiculous to hang around something that makes a person feel sad and depressed.
You holier-than-thou group on here are making me depressed with all your BLA BLA
BLA!!! I suppose you think you are so superior above others that you have a
right to make judgments of how someone else needs to live their OWN life for
their own well being--TOTALLY DISGUSTING! Some people need to MIND THEIR OWN
BUSINESS! None of us are YOUR BUSINESS!
To Double Talk | 2:08 p.m. April 3, 2008
Where I used to work, near the SLC airport, I was told by HR that harrassment
against Mormons was not covered under the law, especially since the Mormon
Church was the majority Church in Utah.
When my brother was attending West High School, he had several teachers continually harrass him and other LDS students, referring to them as "racists thugs" and calling people like my parents "baby farmers". When my parents complained, they were told that union rules prohibited school oficials from disciplining teachers for those type of comments.
My experience, living in utah, tells me that it's okay to hurt and make fun of mormons all you want. And if they get depressed, its their own fault.
When my brother was attending West High School, he had several teachers continually harrass him and other LDS students, referring to them as "racists thugs" and calling people like my parents "baby farmers". When my parents complained, they were told that union rules prohibited school oficials from disciplining teachers for those type of comments.
My experience, living in utah, tells me that it's okay to hurt and make fun of mormons all you want. And if they get depressed, its their own fault.
Tina | 2:12 p.m. April 3, 2008
RE: 12:54 p-m
You got to be kidding me! JEALOUS??? Hummmmm... That is the funniest thing Ive read yet! I'm so happy that so many of you are legends in your own minds...LOL!
You got to be kidding me! JEALOUS??? Hummmmm... That is the funniest thing Ive read yet! I'm so happy that so many of you are legends in your own minds...LOL!
Sandra | 3:21 p.m. April 3, 2008
I think Tammy is okay. I am a active member, and I have heard and seen many
times where gossipers within the church/wards do exaggerate another persons
life, problems to someone else, and also to the point of someone else becoming
very distraught and depressed about whatever it is that is being said about
them. All I have to say to each and everyone of you on here is--WHAT GOES AROUND
COMES AROUND. don't think for a moment anyone is going to keep a secret for
you. It just doesn't happen. If you are a TRUE and good member and living
the gospel principles of the church you WILL NOT EVER go around belittling and
gossiping and spread lies about others. Remember your temple covenants!
Clark Roger | 5:27 p.m. April 3, 2008
"Dr." Taylor | 12:54 p.m. said, "This whole debate has nothing to
do with depression, but has everything to do with people attacking a religion
they're jealous of."
Sorry, but that's s one of the dumbest statements made on this discussion board. I am active LDS, and I know for a fact that our critics are not critics simply because they're jealous.
Depression is a real problem among some Latter-day Saints, and to what extent ridicule of the LDS faith plays into that, it is hard to say.
I wouldn't entirley dismiss some of what Dr. Taylor had to say, because depending on your family, ward and community circumstances, there is pressure among some Latter-day Saints to look and be almost perfect. This isn't the fault of leaders like President Monson, but more the fault of people like the LDS mom who demands her daughter lose a little weight, so she can attract more affluent boys. There's also the LDS father who demands his son get into BYU, since that's where he went. Neither of these actions is Christian or reflects well on the LDS Church as a whole.
Let's try to have an honest discussion folks.
Sorry, but that's s one of the dumbest statements made on this discussion board. I am active LDS, and I know for a fact that our critics are not critics simply because they're jealous.
Depression is a real problem among some Latter-day Saints, and to what extent ridicule of the LDS faith plays into that, it is hard to say.
I wouldn't entirley dismiss some of what Dr. Taylor had to say, because depending on your family, ward and community circumstances, there is pressure among some Latter-day Saints to look and be almost perfect. This isn't the fault of leaders like President Monson, but more the fault of people like the LDS mom who demands her daughter lose a little weight, so she can attract more affluent boys. There's also the LDS father who demands his son get into BYU, since that's where he went. Neither of these actions is Christian or reflects well on the LDS Church as a whole.
Let's try to have an honest discussion folks.
Jim | 5:38 p.m. April 3, 2008
To Roger Clark
I was thinking the same thing as you. Although, I think it was anonymous 12:54 p. m. who said it and not Dr. Taylor. They just used his name...pretty deceptive.
nevertheless a very DUMB comment!
I was thinking the same thing as you. Although, I think it was anonymous 12:54 p. m. who said it and not Dr. Taylor. They just used his name...pretty deceptive.
nevertheless a very DUMB comment!
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Quit frankly, depression can result from an individual betraying their conscience (sin), but this isn't the only cause of depression. Clinical depression is real and can be caused by uncontrollable factors.
Most depression can be controlled or eliminated without any medication. A lifestyle change, eating habits, relationship enhancement, confessions, can all help resolve depression. Anger and verbal abuse won't help. Believe it or not, Mormons do have some great insights on how to deal with depression.