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A Mormon Mason: New grand master is the first in a century who is LDS
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History Student | 12:54 a.m. March 29, 2008
The origins of freemasonry are lost in the fog of antiquity. It is an
interesting subject. From what I have read, I am certain it evolved from some
earlier fraternal organization. As this article shows, what is important now is
that, whatever the early organization did, it shows the way people of different
cultures and beliefs can come together in a spirit of brotherhood for the
benefit of each other and the community.
Dougway | 1:31 a.m. March 29, 2008
"If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy,
we seek after these things". Jos. Smith Jr.
I've always wondered about the things this article covered. Thank you DesNews.
I've always wondered about the things this article covered. Thank you DesNews.
Mr. Christensen | 1:32 a.m. March 29, 2008
I too find it remarkable that as a young man growing up in Utah I was prohibited
from playing in the Shriner Band - Many years later (after the prohibition) I
was contracted to have the Utah Brass Quintet play for a program in the main
auditorium at the Masonic Temple - I have recorded on the coast, played in the
LDS Tabernacle & the Assembly Hall on Temple Square; Symphony Hall, the
'big barn in Boston, the UK, et al.
As a professional musician I can honestly say that the acoustics in the auditorium are to die for - I hope that other musical groups are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to play there - it would make a wonderful recording site - forget LA East or West (the old church) the auditorium is THE place to play and record - that is if you are invited, of course....
As a professional musician I can honestly say that the acoustics in the auditorium are to die for - I hope that other musical groups are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to play there - it would make a wonderful recording site - forget LA East or West (the old church) the auditorium is THE place to play and record - that is if you are invited, of course....
Comments continue below
Congratulations | 1:47 a.m. March 29, 2008
Congratulations, Brother Cook!
rightascension | 8:15 a.m. March 29, 2008
Masonry is not a religion only if we use a limited definition of
"religion."
Utah Resident | 8:11 a.m. March 29, 2008
I am totally confused about this; I thought that Mormons were not allowed to be
Masons.
To Glado | 9:10 a.m. March 29, 2008
There are so many people who know so little, but when they comment, they
invariably portray themselves as having read and researched that which others
haven't. People who are neither Masons nor Mormons, but who are experts on
the origins of both the Masonic lodge ritual and the temple endowment. Never
having seen, read, or understood either . . . that's the expert that always
pops up on the Deseret News message board.
Blackman in NC | 9:16 a.m. March 29, 2008
I'm a Prince Hall Affliated (which consist of mostly black masons)in NC,I
think it is great when men join the fraternity from other faiths! My question to
the new Grand Master would be how long will it before the Grand Lodge of Utah
recognizes the 42 Prince Hall Grand Lodges in the United States? Brotherhood
should not be limited by the color of a Masons skin...
Ken Baguley | 9:22 a.m. March 29, 2008
I play in a SLC group called Phoenix...Jazz & Swing Band...It is made up of
many oldtimers...some 20+ members of different faiths including at least one
member of the Masons. We have played at the Masonic Hall more than once and
were received with open arms. We enjoyed those occasions as much as those in
attendance. The accoustics were excellent.
BBKing | 9:34 a.m. March 29, 2008
As a Mormon and Mason myself, matters of faith should not be argued here. As
Brother Cook says, they are similar.
Why do the readers on this list have to find fault? If it's a crisis of your own faith then certainly posting negative or critical thoughts is not going to solve them. Follow the admonitions of the Apostle Paul in seeking after good things.
Mormonism has served tens-of-millions of people incredibly well. Some no longer participate for what ever reason and feel that by 'exposing' Mormonism they have somehow addressed their own needs.
Masonry has served hundreds-of-millions over the past many centuries.
Could I suggest that the readers simply appreciate the article, and both organizations without having to attack either one. In this case, primarily the Mormon faith. Regardless of any points raised or not addressed in this article, both entities are incredible pillars to our community.
My Masonry began with my sister's family being to rich to get help from the State and too poor to pay for a vital surgical procedure for their daughter. The Shriners Hospital did it for free! The help the LDS provided in other areas during this time was incredible.
Thanks 2 both!
Why do the readers on this list have to find fault? If it's a crisis of your own faith then certainly posting negative or critical thoughts is not going to solve them. Follow the admonitions of the Apostle Paul in seeking after good things.
Mormonism has served tens-of-millions of people incredibly well. Some no longer participate for what ever reason and feel that by 'exposing' Mormonism they have somehow addressed their own needs.
Masonry has served hundreds-of-millions over the past many centuries.
Could I suggest that the readers simply appreciate the article, and both organizations without having to attack either one. In this case, primarily the Mormon faith. Regardless of any points raised or not addressed in this article, both entities are incredible pillars to our community.
My Masonry began with my sister's family being to rich to get help from the State and too poor to pay for a vital surgical procedure for their daughter. The Shriners Hospital did it for free! The help the LDS provided in other areas during this time was incredible.
Thanks 2 both!
me | 9:44 a.m. March 29, 2008
There is some motive to believe that Mason's rituals may have originated
from Solomon's Temple?
Solomon's Temple was a true temple with true ordinances. Perhaps the Mason's borrowed from Solomon's Temple. Makes me say hmmmmmmmmm.
The first temple was in Kirtland, not Nauvoo.
Joseph didn't always share what had been revealed to him the moment it was revealed. Perhaps seeing what the Mason's did drew him there because of truths Joseph already knew.
Solomon's Temple was a true temple with true ordinances. Perhaps the Mason's borrowed from Solomon's Temple. Makes me say hmmmmmmmmm.
The first temple was in Kirtland, not Nauvoo.
Joseph didn't always share what had been revealed to him the moment it was revealed. Perhaps seeing what the Mason's did drew him there because of truths Joseph already knew.
Past Master | 9:53 a.m. March 29, 2008
Blackman in NC, The Grand Lodge of Utah F.&A.M. recognized the Prince Hall
Grand Lodge of Colorado (which charters Prince Hall lodges in Utah) in 1997.
Rico | 9:50 a.m. March 29, 2008
The article made the point, although it didn't stress it due to the fact
that it was written about something entirely different, that some of the symbols
used is Masonry and in the Temple do bear resemblance to each other and probably
for good reason. They are learning devices. As the article points out, they
are used to teach entirely different principles. The value of using the symbols
to teach a principle wouldn't have been lost on brother Joseph. But a
symbol is just a physical thing, the spiritual principal has nothing to do with
the Masonic ritual.
Observer | 10:25 a.m. March 29, 2008
For what man knoweth the things of a man save the spirit of man which is in him?
even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
is this article a good thing? | 10:27 a.m. March 29, 2008
When I was a Bishop I discouraged members of my Ward who were contemplating
joining the Masons (some encountered pressure at work from Mason coworkers to
join) There are many "good" things we can give our time to but if they
crowd out "necessary" things then even good things can be bad
(huh?)
Plus also, obviously a Mason article brings all the Mason-rite-Temple-rite-conspiracy nutjobs out of their holes.
Plus also, obviously a Mason article brings all the Mason-rite-Temple-rite-conspiracy nutjobs out of their holes.
russ | 10:41 a.m. March 29, 2008
Men do make up clubs to belong to, part of being human I suppose. That the
Masons got their act together before the Mormons did is fact.
I follow the wisdom of Mark Twain: I wouldn't want to belong to any group that would have me.
I follow the wisdom of Mark Twain: I wouldn't want to belong to any group that would have me.
Brian Higgins | 11:08 a.m. March 29, 2008
Thank God we live in a country where freedom of speech is a right.
Outlived its Usefulness | 11:19 a.m. March 29, 2008
FreeMasonry has outlived its usefulness. It used to be that people could join
and meet together. Now we have internet chat rooms and the ability to travel
all over the world.
Time would be better spent being with your family and teaching them to do well in school.
Time would be better spent being with your family and teaching them to do well in school.
Acknowledge similarities | 11:25 a.m. March 29, 2008
It is a compliment to Free Masonary that a prophet of God recognized Free
Masonry as an organization which derived its rutual from ancient
times...connected with the early prophets. There is no reason to think otherwise
people...sure there are similarities in the two rituals, that of Free Masonry
and LDS temple ritual. Both has it's beginings in the revelations of God.
The motives of both ritual are upright and pure. LDS rtual of course is more
current, more in line with the ushering in of the Dispensation of the Fullness
of Times promised by the prophet Isaiah. Live and let live, both serve mankind
well.
everybody knows | 12:09 p.m. March 29, 2008
that there are similarities in the rites and that Joseph Smith was a Mason.
If you believe the Church is true you know the LDS rites are inspired and the Masons descend from the same rites anciently.
If you don't believe the Church is true you think JS copied.
If the similarity in the rites convinces you the church is not inspired more power to you, your faith wasn't founded on much anyway.
it is amusing how the skeptics on the post think they are breaking some great secret here, heard it all upteen times before.
If you believe the Church is true you know the LDS rites are inspired and the Masons descend from the same rites anciently.
If you don't believe the Church is true you think JS copied.
If the similarity in the rites convinces you the church is not inspired more power to you, your faith wasn't founded on much anyway.
it is amusing how the skeptics on the post think they are breaking some great secret here, heard it all upteen times before.
Stephanie | 12:19 p.m. March 29, 2008
To "Outlived its Usefulness"...
There is something different between talking to someone in a chat room and meeting someone in person and shaking their hand and seeing them face-to-face.
Also, there are appendant organizations with the Freemasons that DO involve the families of Masons! Spending time with and taking care of your family is very important to Masons. My husband (a Mason) and I are involved in Eastern Star, a Masonic organization for Masons and their wives (or daughters, mothers, or sisters), many of my husband's fellow Masons are Guardians (adult leaders) for the Masonic youth organizations, Job's Daughters (for young and teenage girls) and The Order of DeMolay (for young and teenage boys).
What I am trying to say is there is something that is becoming lost in the world of "meeting" people over the internet, and the Masons DO spend LOTS of time with their families!
Besides, if you were in need of some extra cash for bills, or your car repaired, or an expensive operation for your child, would any of these be given to you by your online friends? ALL of these have been given, for free, to members of my family by Masons.
There is something different between talking to someone in a chat room and meeting someone in person and shaking their hand and seeing them face-to-face.
Also, there are appendant organizations with the Freemasons that DO involve the families of Masons! Spending time with and taking care of your family is very important to Masons. My husband (a Mason) and I are involved in Eastern Star, a Masonic organization for Masons and their wives (or daughters, mothers, or sisters), many of my husband's fellow Masons are Guardians (adult leaders) for the Masonic youth organizations, Job's Daughters (for young and teenage girls) and The Order of DeMolay (for young and teenage boys).
What I am trying to say is there is something that is becoming lost in the world of "meeting" people over the internet, and the Masons DO spend LOTS of time with their families!
Besides, if you were in need of some extra cash for bills, or your car repaired, or an expensive operation for your child, would any of these be given to you by your online friends? ALL of these have been given, for free, to members of my family by Masons.
Compline? Vespers? | 12:36 p.m. March 29, 2008
Every Mormon Mason should be a Knight Templar.
Brighamite | 12:48 p.m. March 29, 2008
Im no expert on similarities between Mormon and masonic temple rites but I have
studied into this and believe there may be an ancient connection.
Having seen portions of the Masonic ceremony and the entire LDS temple ceremony I agree with the Masonic leader in this article. "Masonic rituals and symbols...bear some limited similarity to LDS temple ceremonies".
The Mason's began in the ancient world as a stone mason's guild. Not the fraternal order of today.
In the medieval times there existed a group called the Knight's Templar. They formed to protect pilgrims during the crusades. According to some historical accounts, they lived under the temple ruins in Jerusalem. They found sacred scrolls left by the Escenes.
After the crusades, the pope ordered the destruction of the Knight's Templar. To survive, they went into hiding amongst Masonic guilds. The combination of the two groups and the addition of wealthy businessmen led to the formation, in the middle ages, of the Masonic order of today. I cannot help but wonder what those scrolls contained.
Maybe the Escenes had knowledge of the temple endowment which got watered down over time to the modern Masonic ritual. Just some food for thought.
Having seen portions of the Masonic ceremony and the entire LDS temple ceremony I agree with the Masonic leader in this article. "Masonic rituals and symbols...bear some limited similarity to LDS temple ceremonies".
The Mason's began in the ancient world as a stone mason's guild. Not the fraternal order of today.
In the medieval times there existed a group called the Knight's Templar. They formed to protect pilgrims during the crusades. According to some historical accounts, they lived under the temple ruins in Jerusalem. They found sacred scrolls left by the Escenes.
After the crusades, the pope ordered the destruction of the Knight's Templar. To survive, they went into hiding amongst Masonic guilds. The combination of the two groups and the addition of wealthy businessmen led to the formation, in the middle ages, of the Masonic order of today. I cannot help but wonder what those scrolls contained.
Maybe the Escenes had knowledge of the temple endowment which got watered down over time to the modern Masonic ritual. Just some food for thought.
What is Revelation | 12:55 p.m. March 29, 2008
To those who speculate to say that Joseph Smith had no original thoughts or
doctrines to add to the human agenda I say the following:
First off:
Take a look at the Rosetta Stone.
Second:
Take a look at the Aramaic versions of Enoch, Genisis and other writtings and scrolls from Quamram.
The LDS Church has always claimed to be a "Restored" Church.
After you can accept the fact that the Doctrines of the LDS Church are through a Restoration, then you will be able to see the revelation that is contained therein.
Revelation always comes when the human soul inquires aloud or in secret, whether verbal or by pure thought. Not necessarily asking the source directly.
The LDS Endowment - even with similarities to Masonic Rites, The LDS Doctrine of the Atonement - with similar views that other Christian religions hold to view, are incomplete without revelation.
All temporal or physical knowledge, is incomplete where there is no revelation from the divine source.
The doctirne is, after you have diligently sought out the answer to a question, then the Lord will answer your query.
Any revealed knowledge will always have opportunity to be manifested by the Holy Ghost.
First off:
Take a look at the Rosetta Stone.
Second:
Take a look at the Aramaic versions of Enoch, Genisis and other writtings and scrolls from Quamram.
The LDS Church has always claimed to be a "Restored" Church.
After you can accept the fact that the Doctrines of the LDS Church are through a Restoration, then you will be able to see the revelation that is contained therein.
Revelation always comes when the human soul inquires aloud or in secret, whether verbal or by pure thought. Not necessarily asking the source directly.
The LDS Endowment - even with similarities to Masonic Rites, The LDS Doctrine of the Atonement - with similar views that other Christian religions hold to view, are incomplete without revelation.
All temporal or physical knowledge, is incomplete where there is no revelation from the divine source.
The doctirne is, after you have diligently sought out the answer to a question, then the Lord will answer your query.
Any revealed knowledge will always have opportunity to be manifested by the Holy Ghost.
englishmason in utah | 2:02 p.m. March 29, 2008
To: ctrman
I would like you or anyone to take a One Dollar Bill to a Mason. He will, or should, tell you plainly, that actually there isn't ONE masonic device or symbol on it. Neither obvious nor hidden.
The closest thing I know of, as a Mason, is the all-seeing eye. But we most certainly do not use the pyramid.
The myths about our institution are more nebulous than the one's it contains! LOL
Good article I think, it dispells some of the fog but as ever this board is filled with a negative energy that boggles the mind.
I would like you or anyone to take a One Dollar Bill to a Mason. He will, or should, tell you plainly, that actually there isn't ONE masonic device or symbol on it. Neither obvious nor hidden.
The closest thing I know of, as a Mason, is the all-seeing eye. But we most certainly do not use the pyramid.
The myths about our institution are more nebulous than the one's it contains! LOL
Good article I think, it dispells some of the fog but as ever this board is filled with a negative energy that boggles the mind.
Mormon Apologist | 2:31 p.m. March 29, 2008
For those who believe that they know everything about everything. Especially
people who are writing that the rituals were taken from the mormon temples or
the mormons stole the rituals from the masons. Please read the article and
understand that the author is a professional journalist, has access to primary
sources (Mason history, Masons themselves, LDS leaders, etc.). None of you are
professional writers so none of you know what you're talking about. The
ARTICLE says that the masonic rituals and the LDS temple rituals bear little
resemblance to each other and mean different things. They are not
comparable.
This was a great, honest, well researched article that answered a lot of questions that I've had for awhile.
This was a great, honest, well researched article that answered a lot of questions that I've had for awhile.
just me | 3:02 p.m. March 29, 2008
Mason = brick layer
This is what Mason's did anciently.
Joseph Smith did use some of the symbols, copy ceremony no. It doesn't matter at this point.
My thought is "by their fruits ye shall know them". Regardless of the mudslinging I'm interested in the good the church does and the masons, not all the negativity that keeps cropping up.
This is what Mason's did anciently.
Joseph Smith did use some of the symbols, copy ceremony no. It doesn't matter at this point.
My thought is "by their fruits ye shall know them". Regardless of the mudslinging I'm interested in the good the church does and the masons, not all the negativity that keeps cropping up.
angel in texas | 3:05 p.m. March 29, 2008
Interesting one of the differences in the Masons and LDS didn't make this
session of comments. There are women who are Masons ,but no women who are in the
Priesthood. No I do not see this as a problem as I am a sister in good standing
in the LDS Church. But I also am interested in being a Mason not just a member
of the Eastern Star as my mother was. My husband is a Mason and not a member of
our Church so I do often have these discussions on the differences and
similarities of the two. I do respect each person opinion and their right to
agree or disagree with what is written here. Just thought I might add something
to think about. God Bless you all.
Meggido | 3:17 p.m. March 29, 2008
The problem is not that some odd Muslims, Christians, or Mormons might neglect
to notice the references to peace, forgiveness, and nonaggression in their
sacred texts, and this oversight leads them to do terrible things (9-11,
Mountain Meadows, the Inquisition).
The problem is that these sacred texts contain numerous references to and stories glorifying violence and aggression in the name of God, and these sacred texts are believed to be the literal "word of God".
In short, IF these sacred texts REALLY ARE the word of God, then God has given us far more reasons to kill one another than he has given us to turn the other cheek.
The answer is to apply reason to question whether these books are the word of God at all. We must aspire to apply reason with sufficient rigor, and to teach it to our children, so that we render our children incapable of killing themselves over their books.
If we fail, it could well be too late for the human race.
Masonry avoids this scriptural literalism that is so dangerous. Kudos to the Masons! More of us should join!
The problem is that these sacred texts contain numerous references to and stories glorifying violence and aggression in the name of God, and these sacred texts are believed to be the literal "word of God".
In short, IF these sacred texts REALLY ARE the word of God, then God has given us far more reasons to kill one another than he has given us to turn the other cheek.
The answer is to apply reason to question whether these books are the word of God at all. We must aspire to apply reason with sufficient rigor, and to teach it to our children, so that we render our children incapable of killing themselves over their books.
If we fail, it could well be too late for the human race.
Masonry avoids this scriptural literalism that is so dangerous. Kudos to the Masons! More of us should join!
Truthmonger | 4:17 p.m. March 29, 2008
For all those that don't know:
God instructed Joseph Smith to join the masons because the mason rituals were very similiar to the temple rituals.
Thereby affording Jseph Smith an opportunity to learn and gain some understanding of temples and temple ceremonies and temple purpose before he built a temple.
God never does anything without preparing the person first.
God instructed Joseph Smith to join the masons because the mason rituals were very similiar to the temple rituals.
Thereby affording Jseph Smith an opportunity to learn and gain some understanding of temples and temple ceremonies and temple purpose before he built a temple.
God never does anything without preparing the person first.
Jason | 4:20 p.m. March 29, 2008
I am a Mason and a Mormon! The similarities between the two are completely and
utterly very basic. Along the same line that english and french both have words
for "hello." To make anymore about it is completely foolish! My
question is, I have heard that Jesus Christ really wasn't divine? That
would make all of christianity false! We have an option to believe everything
we read, even from neo-conspiricist! Find the truth within your faith before
you question mine!
Curtis | 4:33 p.m. March 29, 2008
Regrding that Masonary has out lived it's. I would refute that view
point.
I recently had surgery that prevented me from wdo any manual work of any kind. My Masonic Brothers and their Ladies provided transportation to the hospital and back to my home when I was released as well as visiting me while in the hospital.
After an ice storm did massive damage to the trees on our property other Masons came and spent three days cut and moved and stacked three large truck loads of debris that I would have had to spent a substantial amount of money to have it cleared.
I recently had surgery that prevented me from wdo any manual work of any kind. My Masonic Brothers and their Ladies provided transportation to the hospital and back to my home when I was released as well as visiting me while in the hospital.
After an ice storm did massive damage to the trees on our property other Masons came and spent three days cut and moved and stacked three large truck loads of debris that I would have had to spent a substantial amount of money to have it cleared.
a bald Mason in SLC | 4:39 p.m. March 29, 2008
If you ask someone why they belong to their religion, the quick answer is to be
closer to God. You could ask 100 masons why they joined the fraternity, and you
would get 100 different answers. So what if the ceremonies are similar?
It's what you take away from them that is what is important.
An LDS Mason | 5:11 p.m. March 29, 2008
I'm an LDS Freemason and though I am not active in either the LDS church or
any Lodge currently I can honestly say that there is nothing about either
organization that is evil or bad (aside from a few members, but you get that
everywhere that people become a unified group). I've known Glen Cook for
years and am just as proud to call him my brother in both the fraternal and
religous aspects of my life. If more people were like Bro. Cook I'd still
be active in both.
Son of a Mason | 8:04 p.m. March 29, 2008
Gregory: Yes! JS passed the test only a few days after joining. Someone should
be able to confirm that the man who conducted the Masonic rites with JS recorded
in his journal that JS amazingly "knew it all." An LDS Institute
director gave our mission district an eye-opening presentation on Masons and
Mormons, including reading from that journal.
BTW, I am the first in four generations not to be a Mason. My wife threatened to divorce me if I joined. Twice I was invited to and didn't. (We later divorced!) Masons are a fantastic group of men. Likewise, so are we who are LDS. My father was a great man; a Mason and Shriner, and church member.
BTW, I am the first in four generations not to be a Mason. My wife threatened to divorce me if I joined. Twice I was invited to and didn't. (We later divorced!) Masons are a fantastic group of men. Likewise, so are we who are LDS. My father was a great man; a Mason and Shriner, and church member.
History Buff | 8:47 p.m. March 29, 2008
After reading the posts here I felt compelled to post this. The Freemasons are
a secular organization and have no divine origins. The rites of the Masonic
temple were derived in Europe during the time that
craftsmen�i.e. Freemasons, traveled from town to town in
search of jobs for their craft. The fact is that early Masonic Lodges were in
essence a �TRADE UNION� just as the
Teamsters are today. The signs and tokens were proof that these men were able
show that they were members of that union in other towns. It was kept secret to
discourage �scab labor.� If anyone
other than �union members� were able
to accept jobs that were available to Freemasons, then it would be taking money
out of their pockets. Thus, revealing the secrets of the temple would be
punishable by death.
Anonymous | 9:04 p.m. March 29, 2008
Furthermore, most early American Masons, especially those involved in the
framing of the US Constitution, were either not religious (not members of any
organized religion), or were Deists. While Deism and Masonry encourage belief in
God, Deism is explicitly antagonistic to revealed religions such as
Christianity, Islam, and others. A similar antagonism existed in the Masonic
lodges in early America, and this was at least partial motive for the
animosities between Masonic lodges and Mormonism that continued well into the
next century.
Special people | 9:31 p.m. March 29, 2008
I come from a long line of masons and I have my genealogy back through many
masons clear back to I won't say. My Temple endowment in the LDS church was
not a huge surprise! I am also part Jew-Hebrew.
It's all about | 10:42 p.m. March 29, 2008
Relationships! It is all about relationships. When you figure that out you
will understand much more about people and their actions towards each other.
There are good and bad relationships. I am grateful for the good relationships I
have and my relationship with God.
arc | 12:40 a.m. March 30, 2008
Good article. Too bad we have the usually rabble making fun of what others
believe in.
Larry Bernard | 7:42 a.m. March 30, 2008
Again I've studied the Origins of Freemasonry.... the Mystery isn't so
much in Where Freemasonry came from. The Mystery is where a lot of the thins we
identify today as Freemasonry came from. There was cross pollination with the
Rosicrucians but no one knows when and where that came from.
h8f8kes | 8:01 a.m. March 30, 2008
All I know is that every Mormon I have ever met is a really good and generally
happy person (I am agnostic thank you). If there are similarities in the
methods of the Masons and the LDS, we should encourage people to follow that
path instead of tearing down things we don't truly understand.
Mike Johnson Fallon NV | 8:58 a.m. March 30, 2008
This is an extremely refreshing article. As someone who grew up in Utah and who
had Mormon and Mason friends, I wondered why there was a wall between them.
After leaving Utah in the 1980s, I have lived all over the country and have met
many people who are both active Mormons and active Masons and I wondered how
this was possible, because I thought there was a ban by the LDS Church on
Masonic membership. None of them were familiar with any kind of wall or
prohibition on membership in the other. This article helped me understand that
it was a local situation in Utah dating from 1925 and lifted in 1984 and imposed
by the local Masonic organization and not by the LDS Church.
Also, in answer to my questions about the claims of similarity between the Temple Endowment and Masonic Ritual--all said something like "there is a small overlap, but the meanings are different." This article reflects that view of people I know in numerous states around the country, who are actively involved in both.
Also, in answer to my questions about the claims of similarity between the Temple Endowment and Masonic Ritual--all said something like "there is a small overlap, but the meanings are different." This article reflects that view of people I know in numerous states around the country, who are actively involved in both.
Who cares | 9:02 a.m. March 30, 2008
If you feel good about it, do it, if you don't, then don't. Why do
people feel like they have to be the ones to convince you otherwise. worry about
yourself when it comes to your opinions and worry about others when they
actually need your help.
we are latter day saints | 11:08 a.m. March 30, 2008
Some people don't realize that our church is an ongoing, modern issue
church which when changes are due in policy or doctrine even ( 1978 allowing all
worthy men the priesthood for example) through guidance of the prophet,
revelation which he is given and after thought, prayer, etc. Then we move
forward with it, Brother Cook is a upstanding member as well as a Mason. If the
Church does not have any issue with this at all then I dont either, being a
member all my life. My husbands great grandfather was a Mason too, not a member
though. One of the reasons it wasnt encouraged before is because it is a
fraternal order and separates men from their families somewhat, just like in
Hawaii,Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, where men like to get together and have kava, which
if drunk alot can make you drunk. The church isnt against it for ceremonial
times but discourages it otherwise due to the fact it again seperates men from
their families- like going to bar all night.
But if Brother Cook can balance family and Masonary, then I see no problem.
But if Brother Cook can balance family and Masonary, then I see no problem.
Deists and Masons: The Anomoly | 11:57 a.m. March 30, 2008
I'll restate "Compline? Vesters?"'s point even more
emphatically:
Every Mormon Mason MUST be a Knight Templar!!!!
Every Mormon Mason MUST be a Knight Templar!!!!
THE TRUTH | 1:38 p.m. March 30, 2008
There are two things that need to be separated: The METHOD and the MESSAGE. Some
of the METHODS used by Masons resemble the METHODS used by Latter-day Saints.
The MESSAGES are different. The MESSAGES for the LDS, like all other symbolism
(sacrament, baptism, etc.) are Christ-centric and involve a relationship between
man and God. The MESSAGES used for Masonry involve a relationship between man
and man.
The miracle of Joseph Smith was the revelation of the MESSAGE not the METHOD. This process is not limited to the temple. The METHOD of baptism also existed before Joseph Smith, but he revealed the principles related to baptism--the MESSAGE, not the METHOD.
It doesn't matter if Joesph learned the METHOD from the Masons or otherwise. The MESSAGE is what matters, and that's what was revealed.
The miracle of Joseph Smith was the revelation of the MESSAGE not the METHOD. This process is not limited to the temple. The METHOD of baptism also existed before Joseph Smith, but he revealed the principles related to baptism--the MESSAGE, not the METHOD.
It doesn't matter if Joesph learned the METHOD from the Masons or otherwise. The MESSAGE is what matters, and that's what was revealed.
Mormonite | 2:33 p.m. March 30, 2008
I appreciated this article...many of my forefathers were Masons and I have
always wondered about the practices. As a Mormon, I think it's absolutely
wonderful how charitable the Masons are (i.e. Shriner's Hospital) and that
such acts speak louder than words. There is much truth and goodness to be found
in the world and there are no religious boundaries prohibiting people from doing
good to all men. We are all brothers and sisters.
RE:Good Things from Egypt|2:43 | 4:01 p.m. March 30, 2008
Thank you for proving my point.
Your logic is faulty that all Mormons are Christian, and all Christian Masons SHOULD be Templars, therefore Mormon Masons SHOULD be Templars.
This equates to the assumption that all dogs are animals, and all animals should be human, therefore dogs should be human.
I have neither the time nor space to devote a full discussion on who the Templars were and what their purpose was, but you can easily research this for yourself. I will say however, that their purposes as well as religious vs. secular affiliations were completely different. There is absolutely NO evidence that Masons came from, or should have come from Templars (your point that �Masons should be Templars�) anymore than they came from any other number of hundreds of other groups. It is a supposition, a hypothesis, a myth, a fantasy...whatever you want to call it...there is no proven link.
It would help if you knew something about the history of the Templars and the history of the Freemasons before you posted such an assumption.
Your logic is faulty that all Mormons are Christian, and all Christian Masons SHOULD be Templars, therefore Mormon Masons SHOULD be Templars.
This equates to the assumption that all dogs are animals, and all animals should be human, therefore dogs should be human.
I have neither the time nor space to devote a full discussion on who the Templars were and what their purpose was, but you can easily research this for yourself. I will say however, that their purposes as well as religious vs. secular affiliations were completely different. There is absolutely NO evidence that Masons came from, or should have come from Templars (your point that �Masons should be Templars�) anymore than they came from any other number of hundreds of other groups. It is a supposition, a hypothesis, a myth, a fantasy...whatever you want to call it...there is no proven link.
It would help if you knew something about the history of the Templars and the history of the Freemasons before you posted such an assumption.
Educate Yourselves | 6:48 p.m. March 30, 2008
Ahhh, the anti-Mormons. Always spouting the same half-baked lies - ultimately,
"we all believe what we want to believe", never mind the facts.
It is a well-documented fact that the Masonic rites were based on Kabbalah, the mystic arm of Judaism. Take 30 seconds and look it up wikipedia if nothing else. That Mormonism stole the temple rites from the Masons is among the flimsiest in the anti-LDS quiver of falsehoods.
And why is Kabbalah considered "mystic"? Any reading of the Bible will confirm the departure of Judaism from things spiritual toward the more ritualistic.
Ah, I'm wasting my words. The "real apologists" (the anti-LDS dreamweavers) have only the weapons of bitterness and ignorance. Why let go of a good money maker? How much is that set of CD's about "the truth on Mormonsism" again?
It is a well-documented fact that the Masonic rites were based on Kabbalah, the mystic arm of Judaism. Take 30 seconds and look it up wikipedia if nothing else. That Mormonism stole the temple rites from the Masons is among the flimsiest in the anti-LDS quiver of falsehoods.
And why is Kabbalah considered "mystic"? Any reading of the Bible will confirm the departure of Judaism from things spiritual toward the more ritualistic.
Ah, I'm wasting my words. The "real apologists" (the anti-LDS dreamweavers) have only the weapons of bitterness and ignorance. Why let go of a good money maker? How much is that set of CD's about "the truth on Mormonsism" again?
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