Deseret News | Reader comments: MormonTimes.com: Brigham Young enthusiast manages Joseph Smith Papers project

Reader comments
MormonTimes.com: Brigham Young enthusiast manages Joseph Smith Papers project

Shamrock | 6:12 a.m. March 26, 2008

Isn't this enthusiast guy mormon? Is this Joseph Smith history going to have a mormon bias? Or will it simply record the facts?

Richard | 8:50 a.m. March 26, 2008

To Shamrock, a citizen can't even get verified historical comments that may have unfavorable mormon news that challenge church authority or credibility posted on the church owned DN public news paper, do you really think anything being reviewed and published from with in the church inner offices is going to be objective, complete or uncensored; not a chance brother, just drink your milk and behave yourself.

Brandt | 8:54 a.m. March 26, 2008

I took a class from Bro. Esplin (yes, he's a member) and he is very knowledgable in church history. The Joseph Smith Papers project will publish everything written or known to be approved by Joseph, published in full.
Richard - the church has nothing to hide, and your comments make you sound like just another conspiracy theorist with nothing to do but bash on other peoples' churches.

Comments continue below

To Brandt | 9:47 a.m. March 26, 2008

"The Church has nothing to hide." Now that's funny!

Brigham's Views | 10:37 a.m. March 26, 2008

I wonder how Ron feels about Brigham's views and many topics that that the current mainstream LDS church now ignores or rejects altogether...

Adam-God, Blood Atonement, Re-baptism, Plural Marriage, Priesthood restricted to the seed of Cain until "after all the children of Adam have had a chance to be partakers of the blessings of the priesthood" etc.

Shamrock | 10:34 a.m. March 26, 2008

I agree with Brandt. I've read things about the church that they don't publicize. Then again, I'm sure other churches have unfavorable history too. But if the mormons are God's church, can't they find a way to excuse it all? Why hide it?

Gone with the wind | 11:10 a.m. March 26, 2008

RE: Brigham's views
The Mormon church changes with the times. Brigham views are NO MORE!

Actually | 11:37 a.m. March 26, 2008

The papers project is not a "history," it's a compilation of letters, diaries, etc. The problem is, it will never be published in our lifetimes. Not because the Church wants to stop it but because the people doing it are so old and tired they will never finish. First volume was supposed to be out 5 years ago. Ron has a lot of energy but is surrounded by a terrible lack thereof.

John | 12:09 p.m. March 26, 2008

The Mormon church is out to get all unbelievers! We will find you and come visit you and act like we care but really we just want to ruin your life (SARCASM!). If your not LDS why do you care what people say or think about us? Why would you care if it was bias or a total lie? Does that affect your life? If your not interested why do you care so much?

Shamrock | 12:36 p.m. March 26, 2008

Re: John and Gone with the Wind

Gone with the Wind,

Why does the mormon church change? Doesn't the Bible say God never changes his mind? Or is the Bible unreliable?

John,

I was LDS. I do care if it was a bias and/or a total lie. I grew up in this church, it messed me up, and I had to change my thinking, my beliefs, my whole worldview. This affected my life. I am interested and I care a lot.

Jon B. Holbrook | 12:55 p.m. March 26, 2008

I am very excited about the Joseph Smith Project. I hope that a similar project is done for every President-Prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As for the anti-Mormons and apostates, do not take Brother Brigham's statements out of context to try to defame the LDS Church or Brigham Young. Just remember what Brigham Young told the apostates in the Kirtland Temple who rebelled against the Prophet Joseph Smith and wanted to replace him as President of the Church and worse. "If you rebel against Joseph, the Prophet, you will sink yourselves to hell! Thank-You

to John at 12:09p.m. | 1:30 p.m. March 26, 2008

I am a member of the LDS church. I made the decision to stop attending last summer. I had been connected to the church for 31 of my 35 years of life. I was raised to be one of you...when I am asked to mark a box for my religion on a form, it still comes out as LDS because that's with whom I identify. Of course it affects my life when my family is still involved in something even if I have chosen to be uninvolved. I had previously taught these doctrines to my daughter, and I pay attention to "Mormon news" because I need to be knowledgeable about what she thinks of as her religion, too. Just because I've decided to leave a church doesn't mean everyone connected to me left, too. Have you never followed something uninteresting to you simply because it's interesting to a loved one? I learned about baseball because my husband loves it...it's the same idea here.

Matt D | 1:38 p.m. March 26, 2008

To all those that add your comments of hate towards the LDS church or any other church for that matter please grow up and stop. I am LDS and am proud of it and Iï¿½m so excited for the Joseph Smith Papers to come out. This is something that the members of my church are excited for and looking forward to. Please, let us be excited for this and be able to add messages of excitement without having to read how much you despise and hate the LDS faith. I often feel bad when I read some of the comments posted on these stories because there is so much anger towards a faith that I am sure those that are posting it has no or very little knowledge of the actual faith. Regardless of who you are or what you believe please show respect towards others. I hope those that do believe in Joseph Smith are excited and eager to be able to read the writings of this amazing prophet. Praise to the man who communed with Jahovah.

Austin | 1:59 p.m. March 26, 2008

Shamrock we are a church of revelation, which means truths are learned over time, by men/women who seek deeper knowledge, with questions. Just because a prophet, a weak and imperfect man, speaks for himself seeking out new doctrine, doesn't mean the church is false. The Lord has a process in which the false doctrines are identified, and the truths are taught. Plus we all have the freedom to pray and be taught through the Holy Ghost, if we pray with a sincere heart, real intent, with faith in Christ and not a double mind.

to Jon B. Holbrook | 2:02 p.m. March 26, 2008

If any anybody needs to be concerned about rebellion to Joseph Smith it should be The mainstream LDS church.
There has been many eternal doctrines once taught by the early leaders that is now null and void or considered false by most mainstream LDS members and leaders alike.

i.e.
People were once excommunicated for rejecting and teaching against the Adam-God doctrine... Now your excommunicated for teaching the truth of the Adam-God Doctrine.

RE: John & others | 2:09 p.m. March 26, 2008

People who live around Mormons and know them, will always comment on these blogs no matter what you say. I only pray you MEMBERS are a kind and genuine people to your nonmember and inactive neighbors. They will otherwise speak out against you. They also live in Utah and are now the biggest group living here. So please, be nice and genuine, for they are here to stay and are not going to go away.

I am interested in reading the Joseph Smith papers. I hope that the papers are all truly authentic works of Joseph Smith?

Ralph | 2:34 p.m. March 26, 2008

To John, In answer to your question as to why others care about mormon interests: it is for the same reason that we care about what goes on in China, Russia, Los Angeles or with people anywhere in the world present, past or future. We care because we are social animals and what concerns one concerns all. Is that not what you believe that we are all children of God. I care about you, brother.

To John and others | 3:28 p.m. March 26, 2008

Somehow nonmembers and nonactive people don't upset me like they do some of you. I read what they write and it helps me in many ways to be a bit better person than what I am. I know they watch us. Their comments will always appear on these blogs and some with very angry comments as well, but I read them and over look them. Sure they can be hateful and mean, but sometimes our comments are very mean and angry too. We all need to try to get along in this world. Let the nonactive and nonmembers let us know what they want and perhaps we can be there for them. And you never know, they may just be there for you and I someday. We are all children of the same God :o))
I am truly excited about the Joseph Smith papers. This was a great article! Thanks!!!!

Rusty | 3:35 p.m. March 26, 2008

I am very excited about the papers coming out. I love the Prophet and know that having a testimony of him is knowing that God still loves us and wants us in His presence. God is perfect. So is the organization of His church, but the people are not and the leaders do make mistakes.

Forrest | 4:02 p.m. March 26, 2008

People are stil being excommunicated for writing true history if it goes against church teachings .How will the whole truth be published?

Greg | 4:10 p.m. March 26, 2008

To whom it may concern: the so called Adam-God Doctrine, as you most likely conceive of it or interpret it to be, is not now, nor has it EVER been, a binding doctrine of the LDS Church--your mis-understanding, mis-interpretation, deliberate distortion and/or taking out of context of what Brigham Young meant by what he said notwithstanding. But thanks for playing.

And FYI, for those who are interested, there are resources on the web, such as at lightplanet, where the whole question of what BY may have meant by what he said concerning the adam-god doctrine is handled quite nicely.

Tara | 4:21 p.m. March 26, 2008

I have enjoyed reading "Personal Writings of Joseph Smith" by Dean Jessee. I heard that a book was written by him about Brigham Young's letters to his sons was very good. Anyone have any info on that? I haven't seen it at the bookstores.
I, also am very exited about the Joseph Smith Papers coming out!

History nut | 5:07 p.m. March 26, 2008

Esplin is a good guy but so far all we've had on this project is years of broken promises about when we would actually see some results.

I fear that "Actually" has it right. We'll never see this in our lifetime.

comment | 6:28 p.m. March 26, 2008

Latter Day Saints have just one thing to do, sustain and follow the councel of the priesthood brethern who preside over them. If they do that then their belief will remain strong. Oh and don't listen to the logic and advise of apostates those who would want to destroy their faith.Makes no difference what others think both in and out of the church. Hang on to what you know to be true.

Matt D.... | 6:40 p.m. March 26, 2008

The last line of your comment sums up why many of us left the church: "Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah." The church is supposed to be a Christian and Christ-centered religion, but there is far too much emphasis on a man God used to bring forth a church. He was only a man. If he had been unwilling to do the job, the Lord would have chosen someone else. Whenever I sat in a meeting and that song was being sung, I felt like it was a betrayal to Christ...the person we were supposed to be there to worship that morning.

Matt D....Response....#1 | 7:11 p.m. March 26, 2008

Matt,

In Moses' time, Moses was revered by the people that he lead to the Promised Land. All worship still pointed to and was directed at Christ. But the office, and/or calling, is indeed one of high regard by the Latter-day Saints, and should be.

Not only was Joseph Smith "a" Prophet, he was THE Prophet chosen by the Lord to usher in the Last Dispensation! This lifts Joseph even higher in the honor and respect column.

Adam, whom we believe was Michael, stood next to Christ in the creation of the earth. Therefore, the Lord made him the FIRST man. What an honor, what a place of awe to the rest of us.

None of these prophets, or men of God takes a seat ahead of the Savior, If you think so, you have misunderstood.

However, When the Lord appears to a Mortal Man, be it Moses in his vision of the Lord, or be it Job, or be it Peter, James and John on the Mount of Transfiguration...

Matt D...Response...#2 | 7:17 p.m. March 26, 2008

from Him.

The Church only honors and venerates those great men because the Lord honors them first.

We do not see Christ. We honor Him by faith and prayer and our work...which He commanded us to do. "Do even as ye have seen me do"

But Christ has left us prophets and apostles to lead us. No different than in past ages.

When the young people came out and mocked the Prophet Elijah, they paid with their lives. A she bear tore them up. Do not mock the servants of God was the message, right?

Instead, we honor the servants of the Lord. Including, and especially Joseph Smith. He, along with Peter, James, and other prophets have sealed their testimonies with their very blood. Thus we honor them.

I think there are probably many "other" reasons you left the church. We only hope and pray you come back at some time.

The Lord does not choose prophets who are "unwilling" to do the job. True, they have their agency, but the Lord is not fooled by some decision we make. He knows the end from the beginning...in all things. There was no doubt Joseph was going to fulfill his call.

Soem Clear Up | 7:34 p.m. March 26, 2008

I'm a Religious Studies student at USU in Logan. Just yesterday one of the co-editors came to tell us about the project. The project has full access to any and all JS documents from both the LDS Church Archives as well as the Community of Christ (formerly the RLDS). Many private collectors have also allowed access to their documents. The First Presidency has specifically instructed that this project is to be a SCHOLARLY work. The project is overseen by a national board of 3 non-Mormon scholars and 1 LDS scholar. The project has earned an endorsement by the National Archivesï¿½ National Historical Publications and Records Commission for meaning they are ascribing to national standards of academic publishing.

There's plenty more I could add. If you want to see just what the project is doing, visit www.josephsmithpapers.net. I think many will be suprised at how open the project is. Its their intention to also place ALL of the volumes online when ready. The Church is excited to allow academics throughout the world to have access to these important historical documents.

Joseph | 9:19 p.m. March 26, 2008

what makes Joseph Smith so great to me, was his love and devotion to teaching everyone around him of the Atonement of Christ, and that Christ is indeed the only way back to live with God. I revere him because he has brought me closer to my Savior. I love learning more about the man who truly gave everything to help bring those who will listen closer to God!

Brian | 10:09 p.m. March 26, 2008

There are no easy answers when it comes to Joseph Smith. He (somehow) produced a large quantity of writings that are inspiring to millions of readers.

Of course, history is full of very prolific writers. Being prolific is not proof that one is truly ordained of God. Consider how prolific L. Ron Hubbard was (he was the founder of Scientology). His productivity far surpassed Joseph Smith's.

Much of Josephï¿½s works are also worthy of criticism. Personally, I agree with Mark Twain's assessment of the Book of Mormon: Chloroform in print! The Book of Abraham remains controversial. The D&C is mostly incoherent administrative nonsense interspersed with a few metaphysical gems.

But for me, the most troublesome thing about Joseph Smith is polygamy. Bushman posed the question best: ï¿½Was he a blackguard covering his lusts with religious pretensions, or a prophet doggedly adhering to instructions from heaven, or something in between?ï¿½

For what it's worth, the Spirit that has led me to truths in other aspects of life has confirmed to me that Joseph was ï¿½something-in-betweenï¿½ ï¿½ No reasonable person can overlook Josephï¿½s deception, secrecy, and lying to hide his polygamy from Emma and the public. Oliver Cowdery couldn't.

Truth | 11:19 p.m. March 26, 2008

Yeah, i agree with Brian. What you say Brian is a true fact. I have read diaries that prove what you say to be true...People need to know the truth. It is out there if you search and look for it.

chris | 11:57 p.m. March 26, 2008

One history lesson to all the anti's: the Saints become stronger with persecution. Don't ever forget it. Keep the criticism coming, please.
I can't prove there is a God, but your hatred of me and my faith is proof of a devil (what have we done to you?) and if there is a devil, there has to be a God. I can't judge Joseph on polygamy, I wasn't there. I wasn't there every night of his life. And I won't believe the "hype" out there, nobody knows, nobody will ever know his personal life. Who can judge? Until any other church out there begins to bring forth new books of scripture or claim divine revelation (few can say this of last 1500 years) then I'll stick with Mormonism. Thank you and may the good Lord bless us all, and may we all be more prayerful, fasting for more faith and depending on God and may we all love our enemies, of which we have many.

to Matt D, again | 9:17 a.m. March 27, 2008

I understand what you're saying, but going to Sacrament meeting on Sunday mornings is to worship and honor Jesus Christ. There is no place for praising any man, no matter how important he may have been. Talk about Smith in Sunday School, Priesthood, and Relief Society--but we shouldn't sing his praises. It seems to me that's along the lines of the worship of Saints in other religions. The turning point for me was the overwhelming worship of Smith during the Christmas season of 2005. I'm sorry that you don't believe me, but it's true. I could no longer pay homage to Joseph Smith instead of Christ.

Matt D | 12:14 p.m. March 27, 2008

Just to give clarity to those that may be blind towards the LDS faith, we do not worship Joseph Smith. We honor him, we are thankful for the sacrifice that he had to make but I and the members of the church worship the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Many people come in and out of this world that we give praise too. Giving praise does not mean worshiping but it means thanking. I give praise to my mother for taking care of three children all by herself, am I worshiping her? No. I think that is one of the big misconceptions that people have about the LDS faith is that others think we worship the man Joseph and that is not it at all. If you were to believe what I believe you would understand the important role that Joseph had. I love the LDS faith and I love what it has done for me.

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