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No Child Left Behind pilot unlikely?
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Anonymous | 9:18 a.m. March 19, 2008
Gary hit it on the head.
Man!! | 9:52 a.m. March 19, 2008
It is hard to be a teacher in this state as one is inundated with so much
rhetoric, changing of the rules, yet flooded with a population which is growing
, then continue to grow as the powers that be just gave more clout to the
non-citizen by throwing out the welcome mat. This does have a negative effect on
the quality of time , preparation, attention given to the citizens'
children. No humanity seems to be shown to the teachers who continue to labor
under such spartan conditions at best!
Comments continue below
Tenderheart | 11:17 a.m. March 19, 2008
"No Child Left Behind" was ill-conceived, punitive, and
unworkable from the start. The farther Utah can stay away from it, the better
for all Utah children. Give teachers smaller classes, better resources, and the
freedom to adapt to individual student needs rather than giving them criticism
and statistically absurd lockstep goals.
Expecting every child to be proficient in every area of education is like expecting every child to grow to be average height or above.
Expecting every child to be proficient in every area of education is like expecting every child to grow to be average height or above.
From teacher | 3:16 p.m. March 19, 2008
I kinda like the theory of the no child left behind but it was done extremely
poorly and is pretty much worthless. the idea isn't all that bad but other
than the idea every else is just terrible.
Educator | 6:18 p.m. March 19, 2008
While it is very popular to deem NCLB worthless, the facts don't support
that position. As a result of NCLB, states were REQUIRED to implement reading
programs that are proven to actually teach kids to read - what a concept! And
because of this, many states have closed their achievement gaps and many
thousands of students are being educated at a level never thought possible -
this is proven by reading test improvements nationwide in areas where educators
actually took the challenge and made the needed changes.
For many years, students had NO HOPE because schools insisted on buying ineffective programs and teachers implemented unproven methods. This went on for decades until FINALLY Pres. Clinton said "enough!" and mandated that schools must use effective programs and methods, get their kids reading at a reasonable level, or not receive federal funding.
Pres. Bush continued with this very important program which has resulted in GREAT SUCCESS nationwide.
You just won't hear about it unless you read it for yourself (there are some great books and articles that show the progress made) because the media and departments of ed don't want you to know about it!!
Don't be duped, Utah citizens.
For many years, students had NO HOPE because schools insisted on buying ineffective programs and teachers implemented unproven methods. This went on for decades until FINALLY Pres. Clinton said "enough!" and mandated that schools must use effective programs and methods, get their kids reading at a reasonable level, or not receive federal funding.
Pres. Bush continued with this very important program which has resulted in GREAT SUCCESS nationwide.
You just won't hear about it unless you read it for yourself (there are some great books and articles that show the progress made) because the media and departments of ed don't want you to know about it!!
Don't be duped, Utah citizens.
Provo Teacher | 6:38 p.m. March 19, 2008
Thanks Gary. Couldn't have said it better.
I figure the illegal's kids in Provo have cost the teachers there at least a 10% raise over the last 7-8 years.
Not to mention that a large majority of the discipline issues I face come from a certain population as well.
I don't want to sound prejudiced because I'm not. I just want to state the facts.
I welcome all that can get here legally. It is a great country.
I figure the illegal's kids in Provo have cost the teachers there at least a 10% raise over the last 7-8 years.
Not to mention that a large majority of the discipline issues I face come from a certain population as well.
I don't want to sound prejudiced because I'm not. I just want to state the facts.
I welcome all that can get here legally. It is a great country.
Anonymous | 6:53 p.m. March 19, 2008
Gary Richfield used a sledgehammer and showed the ugly side of racism that
pervades Utah.
The Feds prohibit excluding children based on nationality so we can't discriminate. If we were to break the federal law and deny them that right to an education, it could cost us even more do it is a moot point blaming the impossibility of meeting the final goal of NCLB on illegals. Simply put, you cannot teach a child to function on grade level when they are developmentally or physically unable to do so. It is like teaching a blind child sight.
Gary, weren't you supposed to be helping those kids? Retirement probably should have come much sooner than it did.
The Feds prohibit excluding children based on nationality so we can't discriminate. If we were to break the federal law and deny them that right to an education, it could cost us even more do it is a moot point blaming the impossibility of meeting the final goal of NCLB on illegals. Simply put, you cannot teach a child to function on grade level when they are developmentally or physically unable to do so. It is like teaching a blind child sight.
Gary, weren't you supposed to be helping those kids? Retirement probably should have come much sooner than it did.
Science Teacher | 7:56 p.m. March 19, 2008
Hey! I've got a great idea, Anonymous. Why don't we just open ALL
our borders and allow anyone to come in for FREE education!
We could have millions more non-tax payers flooding our schools. None would speak any Engrish and many wouldn't care to learn, since their only concern would be subsistence.
Let's expand our welfare state. That would solve all our problems! :)
We could have millions more non-tax payers flooding our schools. None would speak any Engrish and many wouldn't care to learn, since their only concern would be subsistence.
Let's expand our welfare state. That would solve all our problems! :)
r | 7:54 p.m. March 19, 2008
7 chers for harrington. i have been in ed for a long, long time. ed by 10th
amendment is a state right. re testing: a fair 1 would be to test kids the day
before they start school, and, if unready, declare parents not highly qualified.
bush and kennedy advocated nclb, and neither could find his way in a public
school with a tour by boy scouts. they didn't attend and neither sid their
children. and they are fixing public schools. they should first fix the
Presidency and the Congress, both of which have lower accountability ratings
than public schools.
Anonymous | 8:53 p.m. March 19, 2008
Hey Science Teacher,
If that would end the racism in Utah I am all for it. The children see the bigotry and hatred against them just as the Blacks, Chinese, Jews and other groups before them did. Considering that they had little choice in coming here (the parents brought them) I find it patently offensive reading disparaging comments about them in nearly all NCLB and funding issues in education. I will remind the readers these are CHILDREN. That is a true sign of bigotry, and we as a state and a nation have a great deal of intolerance to overcome.
My first class of fourth graders were all Hispanic save two (one was black and the other from India) so I think I understand the issue of attempting to meet unrealistic goals quite well. Instead of blaming the kids and government, do something about it. I work rather hard at finding ways to bring my students up and so should you. After all we got into this profession because we like children right?
If that would end the racism in Utah I am all for it. The children see the bigotry and hatred against them just as the Blacks, Chinese, Jews and other groups before them did. Considering that they had little choice in coming here (the parents brought them) I find it patently offensive reading disparaging comments about them in nearly all NCLB and funding issues in education. I will remind the readers these are CHILDREN. That is a true sign of bigotry, and we as a state and a nation have a great deal of intolerance to overcome.
My first class of fourth graders were all Hispanic save two (one was black and the other from India) so I think I understand the issue of attempting to meet unrealistic goals quite well. Instead of blaming the kids and government, do something about it. I work rather hard at finding ways to bring my students up and so should you. After all we got into this profession because we like children right?
Ed. Admin. | 9:23 p.m. March 19, 2008
NCLB ideaology has brought about improvements as we have examined what, when and
how to improve education, but its formulas are fundamentally flawed. With
current system, it becomes increasingly difficult (and eventually impossible)
for an improved school to continue making AYP (acceptable yearly progress).
It's too bad that good intentions and ideas have to be quantified to the
point of ruin. Each child's abilities and needs are unique; children are
not capsules of data that qualify schools for funding!
Educators are professionals who want to help every child learn as much and as well as possible, but teachers are not funded or facilitated well enough to accomplish what they can see needs to be done. As for the immigrant population, I have witnessed its effects over the last few years, and the change in many schools' climates is undeniable. If educators are expected to be accountable and accommodate increasingly diverse needs while maintaining (or improving) our education standards, we certainly will need our leaders and legislators to step up and be accountable and accommodating as well!
Educators are professionals who want to help every child learn as much and as well as possible, but teachers are not funded or facilitated well enough to accomplish what they can see needs to be done. As for the immigrant population, I have witnessed its effects over the last few years, and the change in many schools' climates is undeniable. If educators are expected to be accountable and accommodate increasingly diverse needs while maintaining (or improving) our education standards, we certainly will need our leaders and legislators to step up and be accountable and accommodating as well!
Agro | 9:41 p.m. March 19, 2008
This program teaches kids that it is okay to be a looser. The real world is
competitive and employees want kids who are willing to try hard and give it
their best shot. I don't know any boss who will employ someone for too
long who expects to be rewarded for poor performances. We should be teaching
our kids to try hard and that life is tough and rewards don't come to
slackers
Anonymous | 3:55 a.m. March 20, 2008
What is a "looser"?
Science Teacher | 10:27 a.m. March 20, 2008
The only thing I'd like to do about it is to deport them. Let their own
countries pay for their education. Welfare for our own people is one thing.
I'm sick of funding (and working in the mix of) this international welfare
system.
It's not about children. It's about children from our country.
If you want it so badly, join Peace Corps.
It's not about children. It's about children from our country.
If you want it so badly, join Peace Corps.
Anonymous | 10:46 a.m. March 20, 2008
Then you Science teacher chose the wrong profession.
Science Teacher | 6:21 p.m. March 20, 2008
Hardly.
I am a teacher in the United States of America.
I should not have to teach foreign nationals for FREE and somehow make up the difference in what they don't pay with fundraisers, book sales, and selling junk food in my class.
That's a disgrace.
Like I said. If your heart bleeds for the millions upon millions of impoverished children of the world, join the Peace Corps, but please, please stop opening your arms to every single illegal. YOU and your kind are killing public education.
I am a teacher in the United States of America.
I should not have to teach foreign nationals for FREE and somehow make up the difference in what they don't pay with fundraisers, book sales, and selling junk food in my class.
That's a disgrace.
Like I said. If your heart bleeds for the millions upon millions of impoverished children of the world, join the Peace Corps, but please, please stop opening your arms to every single illegal. YOU and your kind are killing public education.
Concerned Parent | 9:31 p.m. March 20, 2008
Wow is all I can say, it is unbelievable that someone like you Science teacher
is out there teaching our children. Anonymous I commend you for what you said
is true we are talking about innocent children. These children not only have to
learn math, science, social studies etc but also learn it in a language that is
new to them. The fact that they succeed at all is absolutely remarkable. I am a
Hispanic American, I pay my taxes and actually have my children in private
schools by choice. I am very ashamed and offended by the comments that the
science teacher made, you are truely in the wrong profession and need to
reconsider as a parent I would never trust my childrens education on someone
with such a close mind on the values this country stands for which is equality
and opportunity for all. I commend all the teachers of america for all they do
for our children, citizens or non-citizens alike.
Science Teacher | 8:37 a.m. March 21, 2008
Then maybe you should pay more taxes.
Last time I checked, the US of A was for citizens and not supposed to be a welfare state for the world. As you put it "the values this country stands for which is equality and opportunity for all" DOES NOT APPLY TO NON-CITIZENS!!!
Unfortunately, a welfare nation is what we are headed to, if not already there. Bleeding hearts like you should start giving more money to world relief programs so the impoverished illegals STAY in their countries.
You are "concerned"? Be more concerned about the thousands upon thousands of illegals in this state that drain all the money, time, and resources away from your children. I have been a part of multiple programs to help illegals and have yet to participate in a program to help those that excell. That's sad!
Test scores drop, programs are killed, etc. all in the name of helping kids who shouldn't be here in the first place.
By the way, I didn't know I had to hand in my common sense to teach.
Last time I checked, the US of A was for citizens and not supposed to be a welfare state for the world. As you put it "the values this country stands for which is equality and opportunity for all" DOES NOT APPLY TO NON-CITIZENS!!!
Unfortunately, a welfare nation is what we are headed to, if not already there. Bleeding hearts like you should start giving more money to world relief programs so the impoverished illegals STAY in their countries.
You are "concerned"? Be more concerned about the thousands upon thousands of illegals in this state that drain all the money, time, and resources away from your children. I have been a part of multiple programs to help illegals and have yet to participate in a program to help those that excell. That's sad!
Test scores drop, programs are killed, etc. all in the name of helping kids who shouldn't be here in the first place.
By the way, I didn't know I had to hand in my common sense to teach.
Anonymous | 10:04 a.m. March 21, 2008
Science Teacher,
Your ignorance in the laws is sad. The laws causing education to be guaranteed to foreign nationals allow our kids education when living abroad. We want to maintain that reciprocity for our own children.
These 'illegals' are likely paying more in income tax withholdings than you and I because when they don't file, have dependents and don't earn as much as a teacher they end up paying excess taxes.
As far as your rants with Mexicans are concerned, just give them back all the land we took forcefully from them during the trumped up Spanish American War (including Utah where you live) and then you could be more justified in your leave my country foolishness. This is a complex world no matter how you look at it. But right now it seems that instead of being part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Your ignorance in the laws is sad. The laws causing education to be guaranteed to foreign nationals allow our kids education when living abroad. We want to maintain that reciprocity for our own children.
These 'illegals' are likely paying more in income tax withholdings than you and I because when they don't file, have dependents and don't earn as much as a teacher they end up paying excess taxes.
As far as your rants with Mexicans are concerned, just give them back all the land we took forcefully from them during the trumped up Spanish American War (including Utah where you live) and then you could be more justified in your leave my country foolishness. This is a complex world no matter how you look at it. But right now it seems that instead of being part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Reading Educator | 1:28 p.m. March 21, 2008
I agree with the comments that stand up for children. They had no choice in
where they were raised. I believe education for all within our boaders
regardless of how they got here is a moral obligation. The children are here and
most likley will stay. Would you prefer to have uneducated people which
generally resort to crime because they cannot access gainful employment? Check
prison stats, if children cannot read on grade level by the end of third grade
chance are they never will and likely will drop out. Several states use 4th
grade reading scores as a crtieria in projecting prison population.
I'm in the classroom working with many children that do not speak English. Yes, it is difficult but I'm hopeful that we can serve these students along with the many American students that have reading levels as low as non American born students. Teachers benefit greatly from learning how to teach all students especially those at risk. Good teaching is good teaching! Raising both the standards for student performance as well teacher performance would benefit all students.
I'm in the classroom working with many children that do not speak English. Yes, it is difficult but I'm hopeful that we can serve these students along with the many American students that have reading levels as low as non American born students. Teachers benefit greatly from learning how to teach all students especially those at risk. Good teaching is good teaching! Raising both the standards for student performance as well teacher performance would benefit all students.
Science Teacher | 2:10 p.m. March 21, 2008
Difference being, when US citizens are abroad, they are usually there legally
and contribute in one form or another to the payment of funds for the school.
And NO, illegals don't contribute to the system that I work in. We don't get extra funding for those who can't pay. We just do without. That's for illegals and welfare recipients. You have to teach the same number of kids with less money in poorer districts.
And I agree, education should be for all, but the problem doesn't lie there. It lies with having all the illegals in the schools in the first place.
Tackle that problem and you'll see education improve as well.
And I take offense to the armchair quarterbacking that you do. I am part of the solution. You are.. well... just spouting your opinion. I make mine happen.
And NO, illegals don't contribute to the system that I work in. We don't get extra funding for those who can't pay. We just do without. That's for illegals and welfare recipients. You have to teach the same number of kids with less money in poorer districts.
And I agree, education should be for all, but the problem doesn't lie there. It lies with having all the illegals in the schools in the first place.
Tackle that problem and you'll see education improve as well.
And I take offense to the armchair quarterbacking that you do. I am part of the solution. You are.. well... just spouting your opinion. I make mine happen.
Reading Educator | 9:09 a.m. March 22, 2008
Science Teacher, You say that the problem doesn't lie with education for
all but isn't that what this forum is addressing? Illegals are not policed
by educators and shouldn't be. So, please explain your part in the solution
other than hateful rhetoric?
Science Teacher | 8:19 p.m. March 22, 2008
The solution is not to turn away children at the door. It is to refuse ALL
social services to illegals unless it is a trip home. Give them immediate
medical and ship them off.
That seems like an nearly impossible and financially devastating proposal, so... maybe a way to make them legal so they DO pay taxes and contribute to my school funds.
In addition, having welfare recipients fully funded at the school would help EXTREMELY. You don't know how frustrating it is to try to raise the bar like the middle class (or higher) school down the road when you have 1/4 the funds (because they're all on a fee waiver and don't pay taxes or support their school in any other form).
Public ed. is a sticky subject, but I hold true to my principles that you need to be a tax-paying American to deserve such, as well as the myriad freebies in this nation.
That seems like an nearly impossible and financially devastating proposal, so... maybe a way to make them legal so they DO pay taxes and contribute to my school funds.
In addition, having welfare recipients fully funded at the school would help EXTREMELY. You don't know how frustrating it is to try to raise the bar like the middle class (or higher) school down the road when you have 1/4 the funds (because they're all on a fee waiver and don't pay taxes or support their school in any other form).
Public ed. is a sticky subject, but I hold true to my principles that you need to be a tax-paying American to deserve such, as well as the myriad freebies in this nation.
RE: SCIENCE TEACHER | 11:05 p.m. March 23, 2008
BROVO!! BROVO!! Awesome $$$$$ comments....Money!! I must have an 8 x 10
autographed glossy for my shrine!!
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As a retired school counselor from one of the districts in the Salt Lake area, it is my best guess that a major part of the problem schools having difficulty reachiung the No School Left Behind requirements is largerly due to having to cater to those that would not have been here, had their parents waited their turns to come to USA legally.
Many of the schools that fail the No Child left Behind sit in areas highly impacted by large concentrations of Illegals in this state.
The Governor and State did little to improve this problem when they delayed implimentation of the rules against illegal immigration. Fact is, States like Arizona that have tightened their respective illegal immigrantion laws will see a large degrease in the results of their No Child left Behind negative marks as the illegals leave their State and are drawn toi Utah and other states that take little or no action agains the illegal population.