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Leaders warn LDS against money scams
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Anonymous | 9:42 a.m. March 13, 2008
Who cares what the LDS Church leaders say about financial matters? Let them
speak on spiritual things and leave the financial matters to those with
expertise in that area.
Timj | 9:37 a.m. March 13, 2008
To all of you who are doing just fine raising a large famliy on one small
income, I have an honest question.
How in the world did you get enough money together for a down-payment on a house while paying rent and providing health care, food, clothing, etc. for your family?
And, more importantly, with the current costs of health care and houses, how would you do it in today's world?
How in the world did you get enough money together for a down-payment on a house while paying rent and providing health care, food, clothing, etc. for your family?
And, more importantly, with the current costs of health care and houses, how would you do it in today's world?
Wonder Why? | 9:46 a.m. March 13, 2008
You can't imagine why MLM gets a bad rap?
Pretty simple--when a business is BASED on signing up "friends" instead of selling a legitimate product at reasonable prices--that might be your first clue.
Pretty simple--when a business is BASED on signing up "friends" instead of selling a legitimate product at reasonable prices--that might be your first clue.
Comments continue below
No business for religion | 9:48 a.m. March 13, 2008
Do NOT do business with church members!! We learned long ago this is an
extremely bad practice. Leave your business out of your ward and religion. It
will back fire, and when things go wrong you will then have to face your enemy
once week. Church is not for finding clients! The Bishop may be your ward leader
but he is never and should not ever be your financial adviser.
Ancel Longest | 9:51 a.m. March 13, 2008
Geez Louise.....your comments make Mormons sound like a bunch of crooks and
dumbheads. This is a worldwide problem and the Church leaders are reminding us
yet again to be aware of our business dealings and personal finance. We are
seeing and hearing more and more each day about the doom and gloom of our
country's economy. We are given each day to reflect on our problems and
work on the solution. I for one have some difficult decisions but I have faith
that if I live long enough most of them will be solved. Enjoy a nice day.....
RE:Timj | 9:59 a.m. March 13, 2008
You actually are more than ready to have kids: you have a home. If you are debt
free, what are you waiting for? I raised my two kids as a single mom making less
that 30K and we live just fine. Yes, they don't have ipods, my son worked
to get a $500 car, no flat screens, and only one cell phone(mine). But this
certainly teaches my kids how to be wise with money, save, and know that we can
live within our budget. Some parents want to give their kids everything they
dream of because they didn't have plenty when they were kids but as a
parent, you can not give everything to a kid. That's a huge mistake.
Mike | 10:00 a.m. March 13, 2008
I am a practicing member of the LDS church. My own rule of thumb is: if in a
business context someone tries to "use" the church to establish his
own credibility or trustworthiness, that person deserves neither credit nor
trust.
JMT | 9:55 a.m. March 13, 2008
Several commenters have suggested MLM as the primary fraud in LDS culture.
Twelve years' research suggests that investment fraud warned against in the
the First Presidency statement is trivial compared to Utah-based MLM fraud,
which leads to losses of BILLIONS of dollars by millions of victims world wide.
The 2006 Utah Legislature exempted MLM from prosecution as pyramid schemes, based on a plethora of deceptions. Even our AG supported the exemption - no surprise since MLMs are his major corporate contributors.
In Utah, there is virtually no consumer protection against the scams causing the greatest losses -from MLMs (measured by loss rate, aggregate losses, and number of victims). The AG and legislature doesn't care because most of the victims are out-of-state.
For extensive research to support these conclusions and the reasons for the highest concentration of MLM fraud among Latter-day Saints, go to the website for the Consumer Awareness Institute at
- www.mlm-thetruth.com.
MLMs are fraudulent because recruitment is dependent on at least 30 typical deceptions, which are identified on the website, along with a do-it-yourself guide for evaluating any MLM or other chain selling scheme.
- Jon M. Taylor, MBA, PhD, Consumer Awareness Institute - and Pyramid Scheme Alert
The 2006 Utah Legislature exempted MLM from prosecution as pyramid schemes, based on a plethora of deceptions. Even our AG supported the exemption - no surprise since MLMs are his major corporate contributors.
In Utah, there is virtually no consumer protection against the scams causing the greatest losses -from MLMs (measured by loss rate, aggregate losses, and number of victims). The AG and legislature doesn't care because most of the victims are out-of-state.
For extensive research to support these conclusions and the reasons for the highest concentration of MLM fraud among Latter-day Saints, go to the website for the Consumer Awareness Institute at
- www.mlm-thetruth.com.
MLMs are fraudulent because recruitment is dependent on at least 30 typical deceptions, which are identified on the website, along with a do-it-yourself guide for evaluating any MLM or other chain selling scheme.
- Jon M. Taylor, MBA, PhD, Consumer Awareness Institute - and Pyramid Scheme Alert
re:anonymous | 9:56 a.m. March 13, 2008
Who cares what the church leaders say on financial matters? Probably only the
people who know they would obviously be better off by following that advice.
Yes, lets ignore perfectly sound logical advice from church leaders and instead
PAY to go get the same advice from someone with "expertise". Let me
guess what your job is or what you "do".
They are simply reiterating what should be common sense but as we all know it is not as "common" as we would like to think.
It is perfectly appropriate for them to remind church members not to put their financial futures in jeopardy. Their advice is based on spritual principles of avoiding pride and materialism. Duh.
They are simply reiterating what should be common sense but as we all know it is not as "common" as we would like to think.
It is perfectly appropriate for them to remind church members not to put their financial futures in jeopardy. Their advice is based on spritual principles of avoiding pride and materialism. Duh.
John Lambert | 9:59 a.m. March 13, 2008
I was once involved in selling cutco knives. I never made much money at it,
infact I am not sure that I even broke even. I hate to admit that there was at
least one person I was only able to call by using the ward directory. I still
feel the weight of this indiscresion on me.
If people took seriously the ban on using church directories for business purposes we would have fewer scams. It did not help that my managers at Cutco positively told us we should use church directories to contact people.
If people took seriously the ban on using church directories for business purposes we would have fewer scams. It did not help that my managers at Cutco positively told us we should use church directories to contact people.
Phil | 10:06 a.m. March 13, 2008
I agree with the First Presidency that members should be cautious.
However, this can be taken to an extreme.
For example, not all investment advisors with large, established firms have your best interest at heart and have a working strategy.
About three years ago, I was hit up by about 25 local advisors (all from the large firms) who wanted to have access to my clients (CPA firm) to get them to become the advisors' clients. Their objective was to maximize commission and that's all they talked about. In fact, only one of the advisors had a trading strategy. The others had no clue because they don't know the future.
In addition, not all advisors belonging to the small firms (or one-man shops) are bad. Some might have legitimate strategies that work.
Further, just because you lose money on an investment doesn't mean you've been defrauded. If you began investing in the stock market on November 1, 2007 and just followed the Nasdaq 100 trust (your common Nasdaq index fund), with double leveraging (try ProFunds Ultra OTC Fund), you're down 43% and losing more today.
Make sure your advisor is licensed and has a track record. I wish you luck.
However, this can be taken to an extreme.
For example, not all investment advisors with large, established firms have your best interest at heart and have a working strategy.
About three years ago, I was hit up by about 25 local advisors (all from the large firms) who wanted to have access to my clients (CPA firm) to get them to become the advisors' clients. Their objective was to maximize commission and that's all they talked about. In fact, only one of the advisors had a trading strategy. The others had no clue because they don't know the future.
In addition, not all advisors belonging to the small firms (or one-man shops) are bad. Some might have legitimate strategies that work.
Further, just because you lose money on an investment doesn't mean you've been defrauded. If you began investing in the stock market on November 1, 2007 and just followed the Nasdaq 100 trust (your common Nasdaq index fund), with double leveraging (try ProFunds Ultra OTC Fund), you're down 43% and losing more today.
Make sure your advisor is licensed and has a track record. I wish you luck.
John Lambert | 10:09 a.m. March 13, 2008
I have to agree with Idaho reader. It is easy for people to sit at their
computer and spout off about how they will avoid fraud, refuse scams, and so on.
The change has to come in our own actions when we turn down things that appeal
to our greed.
Ernest T. Bass | 10:04 a.m. March 13, 2008
I've got to agree with Brandon....to a point.
I also agree with several responses.
My wife and I have very little debt, nothing that wasn't needed, but throw in some health problems, not covered by insurance and it is nearly impossible to live on less than $50K.
There are a lot of working mothers who are active LDS. They work due to necessity, not mearly to 'keep up with the Jones'. These families shouldn't be made to feel guilty.
I also agree with several responses.
My wife and I have very little debt, nothing that wasn't needed, but throw in some health problems, not covered by insurance and it is nearly impossible to live on less than $50K.
There are a lot of working mothers who are active LDS. They work due to necessity, not mearly to 'keep up with the Jones'. These families shouldn't be made to feel guilty.
Franz | 10:05 a.m. March 13, 2008
Many of you seem to think that members of the LDS Church have a monopoly on
scams. It seems to me that the financial problems we are having in this country
stem from sub-prime loans to people living beyond their means. This is country
wide, not just in Utah; in fact Utah's economy is better than the rest of
the country. This is not to say that there are no problems and that the recent
letter and the many letters before that were not needed. Mormon weakness is
right: too many times we (Mormons) equate financial success with spirituality.
Orson Scott Card has addressed this problem, saying that when we read about the
Nephites (as a group) being prosperous when they were righteous, we think that
prosperity (as individuals) equals righteousness. We must be rich in order to
be righteous.
TonyL | 10:06 a.m. March 13, 2008
To Timj,
If you don't have cash, don't buy it. Eat rice and beans (it actually tastes great-all kinds of ways to make rice and beans differently). Use the debt snowball plan if you are already in debt. And follow Dave Ramsey's "Total Money Makeover," It works whether you make 40K or 400k.---"live like noone else (now), so you can live like noone else later." When you don't owe anyone- you can live on almost nothing. It is true freedom.....
If you don't have cash, don't buy it. Eat rice and beans (it actually tastes great-all kinds of ways to make rice and beans differently). Use the debt snowball plan if you are already in debt. And follow Dave Ramsey's "Total Money Makeover," It works whether you make 40K or 400k.---"live like noone else (now), so you can live like noone else later." When you don't owe anyone- you can live on almost nothing. It is true freedom.....
John Lambert | 10:18 a.m. March 13, 2008
I have to respond to all those who advocate against doing business with church
members. How can we build Zion if we will not even cooperate together? How can
your ward be unified if you fear eachother?
I say the answer is investigate, but do not disqualify people based on affinity.
On the issue of housing costs, just hope housing prices keep coming down. Here in Michigan people are still trying to sell houses for more than they sld for in 1999, people have not accepted fully that the bubble has burst.
I say the answer is investigate, but do not disqualify people based on affinity.
On the issue of housing costs, just hope housing prices keep coming down. Here in Michigan people are still trying to sell houses for more than they sld for in 1999, people have not accepted fully that the bubble has burst.
Buyer Beware | 10:22 a.m. March 13, 2008
Simply, buyer beware. Research out the investment. Do not do business wholly
over the phone. Consult non-biased subject matter experts, do not buy on emotion
or get rich quick proposals, or by religion; be smart... Again, do not use
"same beliefs" or "same religion" as the cornerstone or
foundation for an investments. Remember greed and swaying markets change
financial direction (and thinking) My wife and I invest wisely, both in the
stock markert and in real estate, and trust me, whew, we are cautious. We live
within our means, live modestly, very much so, but at any time, we can retire.
Sometimes the "millionare next door," dives an old Aerostar mini-van,
stills mows his own lawn with a Craftsman push mower, does not eat out every
night, and shops at Sam's Club. We choose to grow our money so we can be
independent of the government, and have rainy-day cash. Buyer Beware. Common
sense. Choose wisely. Remember the movie "Wall Street?"
Tyler | 10:32 a.m. March 13, 2008
So, are they telling us to stop paying tithing? I'm half joking, but
you've got people "investing" 10% of their money based on a
relationship of religious affinity with extreme promises that the windows of
heaven will open and God will pour down for you an overflowing blessing.
MLMs | 10:32 a.m. March 13, 2008
generally get a bad rap because they deserve it. My husband used to be a
programmer for a company that sold software to MLMs. He knew intimately how
they worked - and we'll never EVER get involved in one. If you found one
that isn't a scam, good for you but I'm not interested. Besides the
internal workings, the products are overpriced and overhyped.
On the other hand | 10:45 a.m. March 13, 2008
Best real estate agent we ever had was our bishop... in CA. We bought a great
deal on our first house, we sold it in less than a week for the price we wanted,
and he was our agent both times. Sold our parents house when nobody else could
get it sold. Dealing with an incompentent agent on the other end every time,
and no, that wasn't just his opinion, he was constantly fixing their goofs
and deals almost fell through when the other side screwed up. We knew him well
before we used him, and he had a great reputation with everyone we knew who had
used his services. Probably as dumb to overlook somebody great who happens to
be in your ward, as it is to latch onto the first member you know who does a
particular business.
To Timj | 10:47 a.m. March 13, 2008
I've got your answer. For four years, my husband and I never ate out, we
didn't rent movies, we didn't buy gum, candy, or go to dairy queen
when we craved ice cream. We had one car, we lived in an old basement
apartment. We still had two children during this time because his part-time
employer offered us insurance because he was such a hard worker. We saved up
over $5,000 while he was in the bishopric, going to college, and working, and I
stayed home.
We didn't go on vacations, we didn't have cell phones, cable, or even call waiting.
We bought a home in pre-foreclosure, in an area that has a lower cost of living. Ten years later, we are in a bigger house, with zero debt, and our house is paid off. Not bad, 4 kids, paid off house in 10 years and I never went to work.
We didn't go on vacations, we didn't have cell phones, cable, or even call waiting.
We bought a home in pre-foreclosure, in an area that has a lower cost of living. Ten years later, we are in a bigger house, with zero debt, and our house is paid off. Not bad, 4 kids, paid off house in 10 years and I never went to work.
Moessers | 10:55 a.m. March 13, 2008
Wow. We've come a long way since Brigham's decree of only doing
business with church members and not the outside world. Now everyone's
running scared of the church members.
carl | 10:57 a.m. March 13, 2008
The only one that ever works is that nice Nigerian fellow who is trying to
transfer funds to my account. He sounds sincere. Are we now saying that I
should not have provided my banking information? What could happen?
I think the Elderly are particularly at risk on garbage like this. I counseled with a woman who was scammed and I asked her if she discussed with anyone in her family before she jumped. She told me her daughter and her husband (A doctor) said it sounded like a pretty good deal!
I think the Elderly are particularly at risk on garbage like this. I counseled with a woman who was scammed and I asked her if she discussed with anyone in her family before she jumped. She told me her daughter and her husband (A doctor) said it sounded like a pretty good deal!
BobP | 10:57 a.m. March 13, 2008
About a year ago, I was in church in our very small branch. Someone phoned from
the Marina and asked how to get to the church. Someone went and got them.
They lived in Utah County and had sailed up the coast from Sacramento in a yacht worth well over a million. The made the money in MLM
Years ago there was an editorial in the Church News that said: If someone asks you to pray about an investment or scheme, keep your hand on you wallet while your eyes are closed. This is NOT a new thing.
They lived in Utah County and had sailed up the coast from Sacramento in a yacht worth well over a million. The made the money in MLM
Years ago there was an editorial in the Church News that said: If someone asks you to pray about an investment or scheme, keep your hand on you wallet while your eyes are closed. This is NOT a new thing.
JimK2 | 11:04 a.m. March 13, 2008
President Harold B. Lee said some time ago - "I can't believe so
many church members are so gullible."
Want to gauge your "$uce$$ - if Christ came tomorrow, would He be chauffeured around in an Escalade whilst wearing $100 shoes (or perhaps just simple sandals)?
For those of you currently in a scam (as an "investor" or a not-yet-being-prosecuted schemer) - keep in mind that the Church refunds ill-
gotten tithing - not to mention the ruination of the lives of family members, friends, and fellow human beings.
Contact me and fully expect to be rudely treated and exposed (I won't run from you)!
Want to gauge your "$uce$$ - if Christ came tomorrow, would He be chauffeured around in an Escalade whilst wearing $100 shoes (or perhaps just simple sandals)?
For those of you currently in a scam (as an "investor" or a not-yet-being-prosecuted schemer) - keep in mind that the Church refunds ill-
gotten tithing - not to mention the ruination of the lives of family members, friends, and fellow human beings.
Contact me and fully expect to be rudely treated and exposed (I won't run from you)!
Re: Timj 9:37 a.m. | 11:08 a.m. March 13, 2008
We have 4 children, live in California, I am a stay at home mom and our annual
income is about 38K. First of all, we don't own a home, we manage
apartments. Our situation is somewhat unique however, because the job offers a
house (not apt.)for us to live in rent free. Granted that won't work for
everyone, but it has been a blessing for us. Secondly, we went without health
insurance, and only went to a doctor when absolutely necessary. In fact, we
paid out of pocket for 3 of the 4 babies when they were born. My husband's
current job does offer medical coverage, and it's interesting to me that
now that we have a little more capability to take care of medical needs
financially, our need for medical care has increased. ie. my husband needed an
emergency Appendectomy, my daughter broke her arm, my other daughter got her
finger smashed in a door and broken in a couple of places...all of this since
the medical coverage was available to us. The Lord knew our desires for me to
be able to stay with our children and though it's not been easy, He has
taken care of us.
Anonymous | 11:13 a.m. March 13, 2008
Please, you can no longer live on 40k and have a spouse stay at home with kids.
If you bought your home more than 3 years ago then you have an affordable
payment. It is nearly impossible to find a 1500 square foot home for under
200k! People entering the market today have extremely higher bills compared to
those who owned homes before this ridiculous bubble.
Nichole from Canada | 11:19 a.m. March 13, 2008
First, to Brandon, the emphasis on having wives stay home is commendable. If
more women stayed home with thier children then there would be more high paying
jobs for husbands. There are times when a woman has to work and that's
okay too, when there is a real need. It costs more to put children in daycare
then most people make at work. The costs outweigh the benefits.
Living within your means should not be that hard. "Keeping up with the Jonses'" is the real problem. The First Presidency is right on to advise us to be cautious. As a stay at home mom of 4, I watch our finances and heed the council of our prophet. There are too many scams out there to name so do your homework first. Church members should NEVER use thier position in the church as part of their business dealings. I suggest that doing business with friends is rarely a good idea. Also, if you can't track where your investment is going at ALL times than you shouldn't have your money there in the first place.
Living within your means should not be that hard. "Keeping up with the Jonses'" is the real problem. The First Presidency is right on to advise us to be cautious. As a stay at home mom of 4, I watch our finances and heed the council of our prophet. There are too many scams out there to name so do your homework first. Church members should NEVER use thier position in the church as part of their business dealings. I suggest that doing business with friends is rarely a good idea. Also, if you can't track where your investment is going at ALL times than you shouldn't have your money there in the first place.
Irritated | 11:23 a.m. March 13, 2008
My husband and I work, I only work part time, but we still struggle to cover the
neccesites (never wants). our house is very small, we drive old cars. It's
always something that takes our savings (heart surgeries, layoffs etc) so he
hasn't been able to get back to school. My point is, not everyone's
situation is the same. Not everyone is going to be able to live on what the
neighbor is living on. I would think that we as a people would be more tolerant
and accepting of people since that is what is taught in our religion. Why not
stop judging? I'm tired of being judged because I am a working mom. It isnt
my ideal situation but I do what I HAVE to do, to take care of my family, Who is
anyone to judge anyone on the personal choices they might make?
Disgusting | 11:20 a.m. March 13, 2008
In our ward we have certain ward member who uses the church ward directory for
her business mailing list. This member is only your friend if she gets your
business. Pretty disgusting!
Jean Louise | 11:24 a.m. March 13, 2008
And here's an interesting little observation: If you listen to KSL radio
talk shows for even a couple of hours (Doug Wright; Sean Hannity) you'll
hear at least one ad every hour touting a Ponzi-like investment scheme. Ads for
seminars where you will learn "principles" and "values" of
wealth and prosperity. Yep. All the Mormon buzz words, meant to nab the
gullible, in a 30-second ad. Right there, on the LDS Church owned radio station.
If church leaders are serious about trying to teach their members about wise
investing, maybe they ought to check into what kind of crap they're selling
for ads and infomercials on their own air waves.
My two cents | 11:32 a.m. March 13, 2008
Let's be honest, it's very possible to live on little, but it's
also very, very difficult. What if you have health problems? I have an uncle
who pays over five hundred a month just for himself because he has diabetes.
And what about the housing market? Sure, housing prices are falling, but they
ain't the starter homes. In my neighborhood, for example, a forty-year-old
home was just put up for sale: new carpet, 1400 square feet, ONLY 240,000!
Where does a family living on 40K get 1800 dollars a month for mortgage payments
when they're also paying taxes, tithing, utilities, food for five or six,
gas, "generous fast offerings" and so forth. I love the church. I
pay a full tithing and a generous fast (sorry if that sounds like shouting out
my alms) and my wife stays home. It's possible, but let's be
realistic. It'd be nice to be able to afford going out to eat one in a
while.
hmmm | 11:27 a.m. March 13, 2008
You make 40K a year and you own your own home?????
Who approved that loan? I want one!!!! I read that the median income for approval on a mortgage in Utah is now at $90K a year.
Who approved that loan? I want one!!!! I read that the median income for approval on a mortgage in Utah is now at $90K a year.
Stating the Obvious | 11:36 a.m. March 13, 2008
Stop wasting time and money "investing" in MLM Xango, Goyin, Tehitian
Noni juice, magic vitamins & herbal suppliments, anti-aging products, etc,
etc..I am sick of seeing all the ugly buildings that keep springing up each time
I drive through Utah county.
Utah is the MLM capital of the world because of supportive state regulation.
I also think it is funny that some people would say, "don't tell us what to do with our money. Stick to spiritual stuff leaders!" What part of "get out of debt, and don't investment in pyramid and investment scams" do you not agree with?
People just want to believe that what they are getting into is different, but 99% of the time you will lose. And believe me, you won't get rich selling over-priced garbage to your friends and they don't want to hear about it.
Utah is the MLM capital of the world because of supportive state regulation.
I also think it is funny that some people would say, "don't tell us what to do with our money. Stick to spiritual stuff leaders!" What part of "get out of debt, and don't investment in pyramid and investment scams" do you not agree with?
People just want to believe that what they are getting into is different, but 99% of the time you will lose. And believe me, you won't get rich selling over-priced garbage to your friends and they don't want to hear about it.
Ramsey Not Needed | 11:43 a.m. March 13, 2008
I can tell you to get out of debt for free. In my opinion, Dave Ramsey is a
huckster. It bothers me that he uses religion to sell his products. I do listen
to his show when running errands. I listen to hear people's sad stories so
I can try not repeat their mistakes myself.
wealthy | 11:40 a.m. March 13, 2008
Hey people, Their is nothing wrong with having a big house, a nice car and some
of the nicer things in life if your income can sustain your lifestyle. some of
you make it sound like being LDS and wealthy at the same time is a sin! (My wife
stays at home too) Oh and by the way, I got introduced to my Career by a fellow
LDS member 17 years ago
Enjoying life | 11:52 a.m. March 13, 2008
40K a year, family of five, wife at home, paying a full 10% tithing on gross. 0
debt (except a car and I'm about a year ahead on my payments) , and have
plenty of money to put a down payment on a modest house. Oh and I've gone
on two trips to Europe in the past year and a half. I don't see what is so
hard when you manage your money right.
Timj | 11:53 a.m. March 13, 2008
Thanks for the replies.
We'll have about four more years of rough-living while I go to grad school, and then, after four years, hopefully we'll be able to move beyond the rice and beans.
We'll have about four more years of rough-living while I go to grad school, and then, after four years, hopefully we'll be able to move beyond the rice and beans.
Rules | 12:23 p.m. March 13, 2008
As a licensed Financial Advisor who has been in the business 14 years, it amazes
me how many people turn down sound investment advise from me or other reliable
advisors and end up going with the guy putting on the "Seminar scam"
in someones house or after hours in the back of a business. These are The rules
I go by:
1. Always ask the presenter if He/She has ever been convicted of any fraud, filed Bankruptcy,or have any outstanding judgements or liens against them or their company.
2. There is no hurry to get into any investment. Do your research on the people and company presenting the investment by calling the State of Utah div of securities and BBB
3. Invest with reputable Companies and Institutions
4. Dont invest because He/She is your neighbor, friend, relative, ward member or work associate. Think for yourself and do your homework
5. Always get 2 or 3 opinions from other Registered Financial advisors (not with the Company) on the product that was presented to you
Be careful as some of these people are very good at commiting fraud
1. Always ask the presenter if He/She has ever been convicted of any fraud, filed Bankruptcy,or have any outstanding judgements or liens against them or their company.
2. There is no hurry to get into any investment. Do your research on the people and company presenting the investment by calling the State of Utah div of securities and BBB
3. Invest with reputable Companies and Institutions
4. Dont invest because He/She is your neighbor, friend, relative, ward member or work associate. Think for yourself and do your homework
5. Always get 2 or 3 opinions from other Registered Financial advisors (not with the Company) on the product that was presented to you
Be careful as some of these people are very good at commiting fraud
me | 12:39 p.m. March 13, 2008
Mormons are basically a trusting people because we are ourselves trustworthy and
so fall prey to those who are schemers !!It is so sad that members of the church
take advantage of their brothers and sisters in the gospel.
Anonymous | 12:45 p.m. March 13, 2008
Timj: by saving, spending in what's really needed:
Food: eat properly, more vegetables, less snacks, less dinner out, cut fast food. You don't need all cereal flavors in your cabinet. Have two and use them all. Don't trash food.
House: small one, little maintenance, btw, now it's the time to buy, have you heard of FAA loans?
Clothes: have you heard of sales? buy costco jeans and remove the labels, nobody will notice it's not a brand one.
Car: do you need the last car model? why buying a new one?
health care: that's something you don't save on but people here prefer wearing abercrombie rather than having health insurance
Food: eat properly, more vegetables, less snacks, less dinner out, cut fast food. You don't need all cereal flavors in your cabinet. Have two and use them all. Don't trash food.
House: small one, little maintenance, btw, now it's the time to buy, have you heard of FAA loans?
Clothes: have you heard of sales? buy costco jeans and remove the labels, nobody will notice it's not a brand one.
Car: do you need the last car model? why buying a new one?
health care: that's something you don't save on but people here prefer wearing abercrombie rather than having health insurance
TOT | 12:45 p.m. March 13, 2008
I don't need Dave Ramsey to tell me to get out of debt. He tells you to get
out of debt then wants you to spend $ buying his products. No Thanks!
EASY THERE | 12:49 p.m. March 13, 2008
I think a lot of you are getting a little out of control here with the whole
"don't do business with people in your ward"
You can make the same case for not doing business with family, neighbors, friends or the like.
The point the church is making is BE CAREFUL. Don't trust someone JUST BECAUSE they're from your ward. Trust them because their business plan is sound
You can make the same case for not doing business with family, neighbors, friends or the like.
The point the church is making is BE CAREFUL. Don't trust someone JUST BECAUSE they're from your ward. Trust them because their business plan is sound
Buyer Beware | 12:59 p.m. March 13, 2008
To Rules:
Agree. Hey y'all, follow this chap's advice.
Agree. Hey y'all, follow this chap's advice.
Anonymous | 12:54 p.m. March 13, 2008
So, why did the Holy Ghost only recently encourage the Church leaders to warn
the church members about fraud scams. Like others have pointed out, these types
of scams were catching more people off guard 5 years ago.
billy bob | 12:55 p.m. March 13, 2008
I was thinking that they should begin excomunicating any and all who invest in
ANY multilevel marketing because if you do fall for any of them, you are just
too stupid to have a membership card. thank you
TOT | 1:02 p.m. March 13, 2008
wealthy,
Actually there is something wrong with having a lot of luxuries when many others in the world are suffering. I'm not advocating forced socialism but morally, self indulgence is wrong.
Think about the story of Lazurus and the rich man. The rich man was obsessed with building a bigger barn to keep all his stuff. Go find the admonitions in LDS conference addresses where the speakers said to stop building bigger barns and asked those with more to help those with less.
Actually there is something wrong with having a lot of luxuries when many others in the world are suffering. I'm not advocating forced socialism but morally, self indulgence is wrong.
Think about the story of Lazurus and the rich man. The rich man was obsessed with building a bigger barn to keep all his stuff. Go find the admonitions in LDS conference addresses where the speakers said to stop building bigger barns and asked those with more to help those with less.
KBYU | 12:56 p.m. March 13, 2008
PBS is a scam! Pledge money to save the Laurence Welk show and Teletubbies. No
way man! PBS tried to make the LDS church look bad. Thats the last place my
dollar will ever go.
The Old Submariner | 1:02 p.m. March 13, 2008
Timj - the cry of things being too expensive has been around since I was a
youngster in the 1930's. It is called saving towards a goal. The military
is known for low wages. We rented & saved. Purchased a mobile home. Bought a
lot later on after living in a mobile home park. Bought a lager mobile home as
the family got larger. Eventually, someone starting out bought our mobile home
& rented the lot from us. It was available because we had purchased a small
home. Then they bought the lot from us. We moved (got transfered which always
costs money), but between the house & the money from the lot sale, we got a
larger house. Coming from lean & mean circumstances in North Dakota, we
raised 4 great kids & now have 9 great-grandchildren. In retirement, we are
living well. The real answer to your question, just in case you haven't
figured it out - and from some of your questions, I don't think you have -
start small, within your means. You can't start with what your parents
have.
Why don't you post my comments? | 1:14 p.m. March 13, 2008
My comments do not get posted more times than not even though they are less than
the 200 word limit, are certainly not abusive, offensive, off topic, or
misrepresentative, especially when compared to some of the outrageous comments
you do post. It is clear that the Deseret News has a discriminatory policy? The
question is why? And yes, I have proven this point by making 2 opposite points
at the same time. The DMN posted the one favorable to their bias and did not
post the one challenging their position. I guess that's your prerogative,
but please don't pose as a legitimate source of news or a defender of the
free press when stifling free speech. That is in and of itself a form of fraud.
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