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LDS Church apologizes to Catholics
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Anonymous | 1:56 p.m. March 11, 2008
I think it time for inquisition.
Frank | 1:54 p.m. March 11, 2008
The real sad part is that the Saint's statue was a portrait of a real
person who DIED fighting for religious freedom in Mexico.
Who did these Mormon Elders think they were mocking? If they are so insecure in their own faith that they mock another religion, why are they serving their Church as missionaires?
Who did these Mormon Elders think they were mocking? If they are so insecure in their own faith that they mock another religion, why are they serving their Church as missionaires?
Comments continue below
May I Add: | 1:59 p.m. March 11, 2008
Simply put...These young men Do represent the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter
Day Saints with a badge. May we all be MORE DILIGENT in living what ever
religious principles we believe. This is a lesson in teaching self-respect,
responsibility and accountability to our children. We see people of every creed
and level of society make horrible choices every day. May we take care of that
which we have stewardship...Ourselves.
Bruce | 2:00 p.m. March 11, 2008
Amazing...truly amazing. I, like many here, am saddened by the misdeeds of these
missionaries, however, I shall not apologize for the actions of others. I have
enough of my own mistakes to make right, let alone those of someone else. The
leaders of the LDS Church have made an "official" apology. That should
suffice once the young men offer their apologies as well. Neither will I offer
to pay for the damage....the young men, if found culpable of said damage, should
pay to restore that which they damaged.
I served a mission to Catania, Italy and have a brother-in-law who is a devout Catholic. I have been to several Catholic churches, cathedrals, etc. I have been for Mass, weddings, or just sight-seeing. In every city I served, I would make it a point to walk into a Catholic Church: not to convert the local priest, or mock their religion, but to admire the beauty found within. At no time during my life have I ever been taught to disrespect people of other religions or their beliefs. These young men are adults, and thus responsible for their actions, not their parents, bishops or other church leaders.
I served a mission to Catania, Italy and have a brother-in-law who is a devout Catholic. I have been to several Catholic churches, cathedrals, etc. I have been for Mass, weddings, or just sight-seeing. In every city I served, I would make it a point to walk into a Catholic Church: not to convert the local priest, or mock their religion, but to admire the beauty found within. At no time during my life have I ever been taught to disrespect people of other religions or their beliefs. These young men are adults, and thus responsible for their actions, not their parents, bishops or other church leaders.
Anonymous | 2:02 p.m. March 11, 2008
those missionaries were being innapropriately funny. im sure they didn't
mean for this to get blown up how it did. people need to truley get a life. yeah
they made a mistake. they are now paying for their mistake too...they got kicked
off their missions. that's a big deal. a way bigger deal than them being
ignorant kids.
phebe | 2:42 p.m. March 11, 2008
I am ashamed of the missionaries who would feel it is ok to be so disrespectful
of things that are sacred to others.
It is not uncommon for our LDS churches to be vandalized. In my town, we have had our churches set on fire and trashed to the point that they have had to close them for months for repairs. It saddens me when these things happen to our LDS churchs and I would hope that we might all respect the property of others especially places of worship.
The missionaries used very poor judgment. They will have to pay for their mistakes. The fact remains that the church is still true.
It is not uncommon for our LDS churches to be vandalized. In my town, we have had our churches set on fire and trashed to the point that they have had to close them for months for repairs. It saddens me when these things happen to our LDS churchs and I would hope that we might all respect the property of others especially places of worship.
The missionaries used very poor judgment. They will have to pay for their mistakes. The fact remains that the church is still true.
Dr. Penny | 2:45 p.m. March 11, 2008
I am an 80 year old woman who became a member of the LDS church basically
because all of my true friends were LDS. A very great man baptised me, Dr.
Harold I Hansen, who did the Hill cumorah pageant for so many years. His wife
had two very young local misionaries (Provo) bless me while I was in the
hospital. They were a little scared as they had to put on Yellow gowns and hat
as I was very contagious with Polio. But, they did it. This is more how
misionaries should act and both Dr. and Mrs Hansen (when young were
Missionaries. They set a very good example for all.These others were not
'REAL' Missionaries! NO!
Duff | 2:48 p.m. March 11, 2008
Boys will be boys, missionaries or not. Perhaps the church should reconsider
sending young boys and girls out to represent them.
Unless there was actual vandalism, the fact that ridiculous mormons made fun of ridiculous catholics doesn't bother me a bit. All religionists take themselves far too seriously.
Unless there was actual vandalism, the fact that ridiculous mormons made fun of ridiculous catholics doesn't bother me a bit. All religionists take themselves far too seriously.
Catholicism BAD??? | 2:56 p.m. March 11, 2008
I find it interesting that some catholics on this board seem to think that the
LDS church teaches that Catholic religion is bad. Is this not the kettle calling
the pot black? I have a huge family-in-law, mostly catholic that won't
except me as a family member because I am a "Satanic, brainwashed, cult
member" And you cry that Mormons claim you are "wrong" BOOHOO!
(My husband on the other hand is more accepted in my LDS family, than in his
own. He has never and has no intention of embracing the LDS faith either.)
As for these missionaries, I agree that what they did is very wrong and should be punished. It shows a blatant disregard for history, faith and society that is extremely prevalent in today's society, whether within the church or without. It is a sad time when schools stop teaching the times tables in favor of teaching general kindness and respect and dignity that should be learned at home. That writing takes a back seat to drug awareness, is in my mind an indicator that parents are failing miserably to teach their children respect for others and themselves.
As for these missionaries, I agree that what they did is very wrong and should be punished. It shows a blatant disregard for history, faith and society that is extremely prevalent in today's society, whether within the church or without. It is a sad time when schools stop teaching the times tables in favor of teaching general kindness and respect and dignity that should be learned at home. That writing takes a back seat to drug awareness, is in my mind an indicator that parents are failing miserably to teach their children respect for others and themselves.
Mark E. Koltko-Rivera, Ph.D. | 2:51 p.m. March 11, 2008
Some comments on this issue focus on the principle that the accused are to be
considered innocent until proven guilty. This misses the point.
For the sake of discussion, let's say no actual crime was committed. (Say that the statue's head was broken years ago by others, and that there was no actually criminal trespass.)
What these missionaries did was still heinous, albeit not illegal: mocking another religion, in its own place of worship, yet! It does not matter that they were 19. It does not matter that other missionaries have done similar things (which only makes things worse!). It does not matter that lots of people in the world mock one another's religions; this just means a lot of people do heinous things.
Latter-day Saints need to adopt the principle that mocking other religions--in any way, at any time, in any place--is completely unacceptable, to the point of being grounds for Church discipline.
In addition, the Saints need to become the most knowledgeable people in the world about other religions (in addition to their own!). Ignorance breeds contempt; true knowledge engenders respect. This post-9/11 world desperately needs people who are well-informed about others' religions.
--LDS RM.
For the sake of discussion, let's say no actual crime was committed. (Say that the statue's head was broken years ago by others, and that there was no actually criminal trespass.)
What these missionaries did was still heinous, albeit not illegal: mocking another religion, in its own place of worship, yet! It does not matter that they were 19. It does not matter that other missionaries have done similar things (which only makes things worse!). It does not matter that lots of people in the world mock one another's religions; this just means a lot of people do heinous things.
Latter-day Saints need to adopt the principle that mocking other religions--in any way, at any time, in any place--is completely unacceptable, to the point of being grounds for Church discipline.
In addition, the Saints need to become the most knowledgeable people in the world about other religions (in addition to their own!). Ignorance breeds contempt; true knowledge engenders respect. This post-9/11 world desperately needs people who are well-informed about others' religions.
--LDS RM.
to Anon 2:02 | 2:58 p.m. March 11, 2008
So what you are saying is that if they hadn't been caught then their
actions would be ok? That means that I can go into a Mormon church and goof
around on the pulpit and the sacrament table and as long as I don't get
caught that it would be ok. Just because people were not there and their
actions could not be seen by others (until it was posted on a website) does not
make their actions less horrible. There is nothing funny when you make fun of
others and their beliefs. This is not a minor joke! This is disrespect and
disregard for what others hold sacred. I hightly doubt that you would find it an
"immature joke" if someone were to take your garments and run them up
a flag pole. Hey, if it's ok to poke fun at people's beliefs then why
did Mormons and the Church HQ get upset at that coffee shop in Taylorsville when
they had the tshirt with coffee being poured in Angel Moroni's horn?
People here got very upset about that. What's the difference?
Grandma | 2:59 p.m. March 11, 2008
It's too bad the Elders had a lapse of judgment. But, to err is human, to
forgive Divine. Did not Christ himself say, "Let he who is without sin
cast the first stone..." Enough said.
Elaine M. T. | 3:11 p.m. March 11, 2008
It is with gratitude that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has
stepped up as they have to apologize before the Catholic Church and to claim
responsibility in restitution and what it takes to completely satisfy justice in
this issue. I served a mission for this church and tried always to be cognizant
of my sisters and brothers, God's children, and their feelings; to show
them respect. I work with people of all faiths and deeply loved and respected
my deceased Catholic husband. I love all of you irregardless of your faith and
enjoy working and serving with you.
Relocated Southerner | 3:21 p.m. March 11, 2008
I'm saying that if they did not actually damage anything (i.e., actually
break the statue) that their actions were not criminal. They were stupid,
immature, unkind, cruel, disrespectful, etc., but unless they actually broke
something or forcefully entered into a locked building, their actions were not
criminal. It doesn't mean they don't owe an apology and should not
make restitution for their actions, but unless they broke a law, then, no, their
actions were not criminal. And the coffee shop in Taylorsville had the legal
right to market whatever they wanted as long as they were not using a
copyrighted symbol. People may not like it, but unless they were using a sign,
logo or symbol that was copyrighted, they still were not doing anything
criminal. It may have been offensive, but having your feelings hurt is not a
criminal offense. I am in no way excusing what these young men did, but to say
that taking your picture in front of an altar, while reprehensible by its
mockery, still does not make it criminal or punishable by law. They still need
to apologize or make restitution, however.
Just Ed | 3:39 p.m. March 11, 2008
The three young men made a mistake, probably just blowing off some steam in the
midst of a difficult and stressful mission. Assuming they sincerely apologize
and make all the needed restitution, they should (and likely will) be forgiven.
They probably regret deeply what they did, and will, hopefully, learn from their
error. They still have potential to be effective and faithful servants of
Christ. As a Catholic, I pray they will be.
Also, no faith has a monopoly on people who harbor negative beliefs about the faiths of others. I come from a Protestant background, and Catholics were looked down on by my family as being backward, superstitious, foreign, etc. (When I converted to Catholicism, my mother told me that all four of my late grandparents were probably spinning in their graves!)
Mormons were just considered bizarre. Sacred underwear? God used to be like us? Jesus came to America? Whatever!
Yet one of the most decent and respectful men I ever knew was a devout Mormon. I never heard him say anything negative about another�s faith. He�s a model for all of us, I think.
Also, no faith has a monopoly on people who harbor negative beliefs about the faiths of others. I come from a Protestant background, and Catholics were looked down on by my family as being backward, superstitious, foreign, etc. (When I converted to Catholicism, my mother told me that all four of my late grandparents were probably spinning in their graves!)
Mormons were just considered bizarre. Sacred underwear? God used to be like us? Jesus came to America? Whatever!
Yet one of the most decent and respectful men I ever knew was a devout Mormon. I never heard him say anything negative about another�s faith. He�s a model for all of us, I think.
Truth-Sayer | 3:43 p.m. March 11, 2008
What the young LDS missionaries did was reprehnsible---they broke the cardinal
"law of love" taught by Christ and should be disciplined because of
it.
God is not only a merciful God, he is also a God of accountibility and judgment. Judgement is part of God's character; God can't be a God of love without accountibility. For God (the Father--our "Heavenly Father," to exhibit in his nature one over the other(judgement and mercy) would be contradictory of His character.
Both judgment and mercy are part of God's character---both are part of his love toward us because God is love epitomized.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is Christ's admonition to all of us. The "Golden Rule" applies to every person, every creed, every religion and denomination. In this manner, God is fair to all.
Unfortunately, some would believe that Christ said, "Do unto others before they do unto you."
The LDS church was correct in apoligizing to the Catholic church for the missionaries misbehavior--only good will can come of such contrition.
We are all human beings, and as such, are imperfect examples of Christ's love.
The grace of Christ covers all our sins--"it is finished!"
God is not only a merciful God, he is also a God of accountibility and judgment. Judgement is part of God's character; God can't be a God of love without accountibility. For God (the Father--our "Heavenly Father," to exhibit in his nature one over the other(judgement and mercy) would be contradictory of His character.
Both judgment and mercy are part of God's character---both are part of his love toward us because God is love epitomized.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is Christ's admonition to all of us. The "Golden Rule" applies to every person, every creed, every religion and denomination. In this manner, God is fair to all.
Unfortunately, some would believe that Christ said, "Do unto others before they do unto you."
The LDS church was correct in apoligizing to the Catholic church for the missionaries misbehavior--only good will can come of such contrition.
We are all human beings, and as such, are imperfect examples of Christ's love.
The grace of Christ covers all our sins--"it is finished!"
re:Grandma 2:59 | 3:45 p.m. March 11, 2008
Everything on your post is judgemental, so how do you tell people not to
judge.
These three kids represent the "church", but not the "Gospel of Jesus Christ".
These three kids represent the "church", but not the "Gospel of Jesus Christ".
AZ Guy | 3:49 p.m. March 11, 2008
The lesson here is that what is wrong is wrong, even if nobody is watching.
These kids will never forget that.
It also sounds like a good opportunity for the local wards to reach out and perform some service projects and other outreach to the folks who had their sacred place desecrated. The only way to show the offended party what you really are is by doing something, not just apologizing.
It also sounds like a good opportunity for the local wards to reach out and perform some service projects and other outreach to the folks who had their sacred place desecrated. The only way to show the offended party what you really are is by doing something, not just apologizing.
Rissa | 3:56 p.m. March 11, 2008
It's sad that they happened to have bben representing our church...they
made us look bad and i really do NOT appreciat it...
LDS too | 3:59 p.m. March 11, 2008
I just came to give my apologies to anyone of the Catholic faith. Some of the
best people I know are Catholic including my best friend. As a member of the
LDS church I apologize that this unfortunate incident happened and wish you all
the best. No religion should ever mock, disrespect, or make light of another
religion. Bless you all.
Anon | 4:14 p.m. March 11, 2008
I was curious what the good citizes of southern Colorado would have to say about
this. I Googled both Denver papers. The sum total of every article in both
papers was less than half of the number of comments on this one article in just
this paper, just today.
And my subjective judgement is that the vitriol evident in many comments made here is largely missing from the comments of those in the affected area.
None of this excuses the actions of the Elders involved, but I sure thought it put an interesting spin on how lathered up some folks are getting over this.
And my subjective judgement is that the vitriol evident in many comments made here is largely missing from the comments of those in the affected area.
None of this excuses the actions of the Elders involved, but I sure thought it put an interesting spin on how lathered up some folks are getting over this.
Armchair Judge in Israel | 4:17 p.m. March 11, 2008
I am shocked, appalled, stunned, aghast, speechless, sickened, nauseated, and
saddened; not to mention deeply hurt and irreparably offended by the acts of
these vicious young men. My horror at their deeds is only matched by my
righteous indignation in wanting full retribution, restitution, punishment, and
humiliation for these stains on humanity.
I shall not rest until I see these criminals publicly flogged, tarred, feathered, drawn, quartered and dragged through the streets of Colorado, Utah and St. Peter's Square.
The time for apologies is past as has the time for forgiveness. The law as it stands and the judgments of those in positions of authority in the church will never suffice. We as sinless readers must unite to make sure only proper punishment is administered; for we alone know what is truly merited.
Anyone catching my sarcasm yet?
I shall not rest until I see these criminals publicly flogged, tarred, feathered, drawn, quartered and dragged through the streets of Colorado, Utah and St. Peter's Square.
The time for apologies is past as has the time for forgiveness. The law as it stands and the judgments of those in positions of authority in the church will never suffice. We as sinless readers must unite to make sure only proper punishment is administered; for we alone know what is truly merited.
Anyone catching my sarcasm yet?
EastCoastMountainMan | 4:28 p.m. March 11, 2008
This is a hot issue, especially for those sensitive about the LDS Church, its
teachings, and its members. As a returned missionary, an active member of the
Church, and new resident of Utah I have to say that I am sorry for the actions
of a FEW short-sighted missionaries. This was clearly an offensive and senseless
act of arrogance and ignorance.
To those who think all members of the LDS Church feel this way, we don't. In fact, most members of the LDS Church are quietly striving to live in a more Christ-like manner, which includes looking for common ground with others -- religious or otherwise. Please do not judge my beliefs based on what three provincial kids did.
To those who think all members of the LDS Church feel this way, we don't. In fact, most members of the LDS Church are quietly striving to live in a more Christ-like manner, which includes looking for common ground with others -- religious or otherwise. Please do not judge my beliefs based on what three provincial kids did.
joseph | 4:28 p.m. March 11, 2008
Darren B. you do not know what you are talking about. Have you ever been in one
of our churches? How do you know what we preach?
NBA | 4:32 p.m. March 11, 2008
I like to offer my apologies to the people of that community and especially to
Roman Cathloics as a whole in saying that I and I would say all Mormons are
disgusted and ashamed at the acts of these missionaries. I am sorry for their
total disregard and disrespect of this great shrine and memorial.
Jared | 4:39 p.m. March 11, 2008
The Book of John, in the Bible, states the following:
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
All I can say is... FORGIVE THE MISSIONARIES AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE. I guarantee that no one reading this story is perfect.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
All I can say is... FORGIVE THE MISSIONARIES AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE. I guarantee that no one reading this story is perfect.
Kate | 4:44 p.m. March 11, 2008
It is an unfortunate thing that has happened. I respect both religions for
teaching the world about faith, love, and honesty. The actions of a few young
men should not reflect that of the LDS church.
David | 4:50 p.m. March 11, 2008
My brother-in-law and sister taught all 12 of their lds children that the
catholic church was the great and abominable church just like the book, mormon
doctrine. Perhaps the missionaries were taught the same. I have tried posting
this four times, yet every time it fails to post. Why the censoring of fact?
CO Coug | 4:45 p.m. March 11, 2008
Living here in Denver, CO, the story had a small paragraph on page 11 of the
Rocky Mountain News. It's funny how the Utah press has about 5 different
stories about this and people on this comment board make it sound like there
will never be another convert in the state of CO. Come on, these kids are 19
years old for goodness sakes. Unless you were an absolute angel when you were
19-21 years of age, I think you need to back off and let these kids pay for
their mistakes without you screaming for blood.
Apologies have been made, the kids disciplined, and an investigation opened, forgive and move on people.
But again, people will take any opportunity to grind an axe against the LDS church as if these missionaries were taught to do these types of acts. Unbelievable.
Apologies have been made, the kids disciplined, and an investigation opened, forgive and move on people.
But again, people will take any opportunity to grind an axe against the LDS church as if these missionaries were taught to do these types of acts. Unbelievable.
Totally Catholic | 4:47 p.m. March 11, 2008
Ladies and Gentelmen: Every society has people that will do stupid things. I
can't speak for the Catholic church or the parish that had their shrine
desecrated, but I feel it is important that poeople of faith maintain a strong
bond of friendship. I'm fairly positive that Bishop Neiderhaur and
President Gordon Hinkley who respected each other would want it that way. Let
the chuchs and Law enforcement decided the fate of those who defamed the works
of good missionaries.
To Relocated Southerner | 5:01 p.m. March 11, 2008
Locked or unlocked, it is still criminal trespass. It is a private building open
to those who are there to worship or to find peace. If they were in the building
for anything other than that it is criminal trespass. If your front door is
unlocked and a family member walks in, they are usually considered an invited
guest. However, if a stranger walking down the street decides to walk in you
home he is considered to be trespassing. Your home was unlocked, heck you door
could be open, it is still trespassing.
I don't see a difference other than these were "good boys" that happened to make a poor decision. How many times have we heard that on the news. "He was a good boy, the police didn't have to shoot him just because he had a gun in his hand". I'm tired of this boys will be boys , and they made an error in judgment. At some point people need to start being held accountable for their actions.
I don't see a difference other than these were "good boys" that happened to make a poor decision. How many times have we heard that on the news. "He was a good boy, the police didn't have to shoot him just because he had a gun in his hand". I'm tired of this boys will be boys , and they made an error in judgment. At some point people need to start being held accountable for their actions.
Joe Canada | 5:47 p.m. March 11, 2008
Darren B. seems to be getting as much air time as the missionaries. Enough and
move on. As for the missionaries...prosecute to the fullest extent of the law
firmly and fairly and deal with them appropriately at the disciplinary councils.
What a wakeup call, eh??
Sid | 6:29 p.m. March 11, 2008
I realized that at 19 years old I wasn't mature enough to go out and
represent the lord, so I stayed home.
I got married in the temple at 26, have two children and completed college (not at BYU) and beem married for 26 years.
Any mistakes I have made representing myself. I have been reading these comments, and realize thatthe mistakes of the kids are their mistakes.
I mean, God did not ask them to do this for him/her.
While the church might be culpable, they really don't even represent the church.
We can dump it on the church, but I don't remember the church training on how to do sacrelidge.
I figure if God makes a mistake, he.ll let us know.
Otherwise, I see it as something that was done, by people, and unless god is controlling these three thugs, it's on them, without Gods help.
I got married in the temple at 26, have two children and completed college (not at BYU) and beem married for 26 years.
Any mistakes I have made representing myself. I have been reading these comments, and realize thatthe mistakes of the kids are their mistakes.
I mean, God did not ask them to do this for him/her.
While the church might be culpable, they really don't even represent the church.
We can dump it on the church, but I don't remember the church training on how to do sacrelidge.
I figure if God makes a mistake, he.ll let us know.
Otherwise, I see it as something that was done, by people, and unless god is controlling these three thugs, it's on them, without Gods help.
Carol P. Warnick | 6:36 p.m. March 11, 2008
I'm grateful for a loving Heavenly Father and Savior Jesus Christ who knows
our hearts and can forgive us for foolish mistakes that WE ALL make at times.
truthmonger | 7:00 p.m. March 11, 2008
People say they are adults. people say they are children.
The point is they were only 19 years old when it happened.
How did you act when you were 19 years old? Were you the consumate adult? Or did you do foolish things?
People think when you become a missionary you "magically" become an infallible human being.
People think when become or are mormon you should an infallible human being. Or that if you are LDS should live with such high expectations and standards that no one can possibly achieve.
Nothing is further from the truth. The are just human beings trying to to do the best they can. Most of the time they falter, sometime they falter horribly.
But not because they are mormon or missionaries but because that is the challenge of life. To try the best you can in the face of trial and tribulation, adversity, and temptation.
NO one is perfect, And it is unfair to expect perfection from anyone no matter what role they are in.
The point is they were only 19 years old when it happened.
How did you act when you were 19 years old? Were you the consumate adult? Or did you do foolish things?
People think when you become a missionary you "magically" become an infallible human being.
People think when become or are mormon you should an infallible human being. Or that if you are LDS should live with such high expectations and standards that no one can possibly achieve.
Nothing is further from the truth. The are just human beings trying to to do the best they can. Most of the time they falter, sometime they falter horribly.
But not because they are mormon or missionaries but because that is the challenge of life. To try the best you can in the face of trial and tribulation, adversity, and temptation.
NO one is perfect, And it is unfair to expect perfection from anyone no matter what role they are in.
Concerned Catholic | 7:06 p.m. March 11, 2008
I must say, as a Roman Catholic, what happened at that shrine is horrible,
regardless of who did it. While we may not agree theologically on many issues, I
do believe we agree on respecting a place of worship. I have been to, and
currently have many invitations to attend churches other than my own. With that
being said, I NEVER go unprepared. I make every effort I can to obtain at least
a basic knowledge of what is expected. The last thing I would want to do is
offend someone in a place that they consider sacred and holy. For example, some
churches/synagogues require a head covering for men. Some churches require veils
for women. Some don't allow women to wear pants, etc. etc. I also check to
see if there are areas that I as a non member should not enter. It's not a
matter of following another churches doctrine, but merely a matter of reverence
and respect. I for one don't think the actions of a few misguided
individuals should reflect on the entire LDS.
Ken | 7:32 p.m. March 11, 2008
Latter Day Saints are often brought before a disiplinary Council due to their
actions that are deemed un becoming of a Latter Day Saint. I would hope this
action is taken when it comes to the missionaries involved in this crime.A
disiplinary council provides the person with time to consider what they have
done and repent.The missionaries who did this crime did a extremely bad thing
and need to be punished.Prison time? Civil probation? Heavy fines?This is not a
light matter and they should face the full extent of the law.As a active Latter
Day Saint I grieve for these missionaries and do with them well. But as we all
know mercy can not and will not rob justice.Reciently I have had the opturnity
to help assist in a Catholic Church project for which they thanked me over and
over again.I will continue to do so.Shame on any Latter Day Saint who puts down
another church or its people.They are not fit to be members in good standing.
Anonymous | 7:34 p.m. March 11, 2008
What is so appauling about this? I have lived among the LDS cuture all my life
and have been mocked and excluded for not belonging. This is not boys will be
boys but the culture of the LDS church. The difference in this case it was not
very suttle and was well documented.
Gregorio | 8:09 p.m. March 11, 2008
A an LDS seminary student we were taught in a not very subtle fashion that
Catholic's were evil. Get real folks we all know this is part of our
realigious education. God bless those boys.
Leslye | 8:10 p.m. March 11, 2008
So does this mean that everytime anybody does anything wrong, the leaders of the
offending person's church have to apologize for their behavior? That's
wonderful that the LDS church apologized, but I would hope that the missionaries
themselves would apologize.
No judging | 8:31 p.m. March 11, 2008
As for me I'll let the LDS church do what they believe is right. I'll
let the law do what it believes is right and I'll move on with my life. It
is not needed that I judge or condemn anyone. Life is too short.
Maren | 8:33 p.m. March 11, 2008
There is no defense for this
'behavior'... These 3 men need to accept responsibility for this heinous crime. Yes, it's a crime, and I'm surprised it has not yet been labeled a hate-crime.
You who defend these losers-- what if it was 3 layministers (insert any religion here) who decapitated a statue of the LDS church, mocked the temple or posed in a ridiculing manner in front of a sacred LDS spot? Where would your emotions lie then?
I agree that many members of this church are condescending to others; that's a sin too.
At least, that's what my Primary teachers taught me.
My apologies to my own Catholic friends for these idiots!
'behavior'... These 3 men need to accept responsibility for this heinous crime. Yes, it's a crime, and I'm surprised it has not yet been labeled a hate-crime.
You who defend these losers-- what if it was 3 layministers (insert any religion here) who decapitated a statue of the LDS church, mocked the temple or posed in a ridiculing manner in front of a sacred LDS spot? Where would your emotions lie then?
I agree that many members of this church are condescending to others; that's a sin too.
At least, that's what my Primary teachers taught me.
My apologies to my own Catholic friends for these idiots!
Anonymous | 8:58 p.m. March 11, 2008
Through the vast extent of thier mission thes young men did well and we cannot
take that away from them. Sure there was some misjudgement but from what I have
seen and heard it is relatively minor; it is not like someone that would
vandalize a stake house or temple square as those are holy and sacred places.
This was just a little idol worship place in the woods and it was hardly noticed
by any.
Proper Punishment | 9:07 p.m. March 11, 2008
Let's get their names and "SHUN" them, and not a light shun, but
a really solid "SHUN".
LDS Navy Vet | 10:01 p.m. March 11, 2008
As a member of the LDS church, I am outraged and disgusted with the actions of
these missionaries. What these missionaries have done is nothing less than a
hate crime. They should be prosecuted to the fullest of the law. While nobody
was physically hurt, the scars between the Catholic church and the LDS church in
the San Luis Valley will take a long time to heal. To deface a Catholic shrine,
like they did, would be like someone cutting the head off the Hill Cumorah
statue of Moroni. We do NOT need to give these boys a slap on the wrist. They
should be publicly shamed, so that the missionaries that represent the LDS
Church will never do something like this again.
weightless skittles | 10:03 p.m. March 11, 2008
It is time to forgive and time to seek restitution. It is time for each party
and writers here to reach across this situation and find common understanding
and renewed respect. It is time that all people stop and realize that many who
desire to follow the Savior must seek to emulate him in all things. Love,
understanding, forgiveness, and repentance are of HIM and by HIM and through
HIM. Let us mend offenses and bridge relationships. It IS what the Savior
would have us all do. Let us here strive for loving and kind spirit towards
others. This world is filled with so much cynicism and bitterness. This blog
ought to be a place where constuctive and thoughtful discord is given. What a
terrific place this would be to talk to people across the Internet and world,
who share such a concept regardless of their religious persuasion. What a place
this would be if all desired to find solutions to problems and not a seedbed of
conflict. I hope the statue is repaired quickly and that these young men learn
care and love. I wish God-like wisdom to reign in the outcomee for all parties.
involved.
Sense of humor? | 10:43 p.m. March 11, 2008
DN proof readers is it now against posting rules to have a sense of humor? Why
did you have to take down the SHUN comment, it was funny? I feel SHUNed.
Anonymous | 10:56 p.m. March 11, 2008
LDS Navy Vet and Proper punishment and others:
What would Jesus do?
Would Christ place more importance on statue than a person?
Perhaps that is one of the reasons God said:
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
People will start to place more value and importance on things than on what is of real value.
None of you sound like true diciples or followers of Christ.
What would Jesus do?
Would Christ place more importance on statue than a person?
Perhaps that is one of the reasons God said:
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
People will start to place more value and importance on things than on what is of real value.
None of you sound like true diciples or followers of Christ.
Vegas Ed | 11:04 p.m. March 11, 2008
Really immature kids that should have known better. Obviously the church is
going to go all out for restitution, and do all they can to repair relations
with the people in that town. But what were these kids thinking. In no
one's world is that type of vandalism okay. I wouldn't call it a hate
crime or even anything like that. These boys probably threw snowballs at cars,
eggs at houses, and were never told to stop. It escalated until they did
something really stupid.They need to be taught before they go on a mission.
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"Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets." (Luke 6:22-23)
�Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." (Mt 5:11-12)
As a Catholic I think there's no need for us to be angry or offended, just to be glad and leap of joy!
MNV