Deseret News | Reader comments: LDS Church issues apology in missionary vandalism case

Reader comments
LDS Church issues apology in missionary vandalism case

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JDurrant | 7:39 p.m. March 10, 2008

As a Mormon, I want to express my condolences to the members of the Sangre de Christo community. Please know that the actions of these foolish missionaries do not reflect the views of the Mormon community at large. Mormons respect Catholics, with whom we have worked closely in many social and humanitarian projects.

rightascension | 7:42 p.m. March 10, 2008

So then, let me get this straight: the LDS Church and Photobucket have both quickly issued statements to protect their legal interests -- before the five most interesting questions even get answered

who posted the photos?

Why would that person post such photos?

How do authorities know the photos are genuine and connected to these particular elders?

what factual evidence exists that these three missionaries did in fact do what they are accused of? This is the really interesting question. We are assuming that authorities dusted the statue for fingerprints. So did they?

"Bias induced crime -- there is a PC laugh. If the authorities prosecuted all the Bias-induced religious mockeries of Catholicism posted on YouTube Webshots and PhotoBucket, they would be busy indeed.

Incidentally, how does a major desecration of a religious icon go unnoticed from 2006 to the present day? The writers need to double check this particular item.

I feel sorry | 7:44 p.m. March 10, 2008

for all the good missionaries everywhere.But to post this desercration with such arrogance just brings home the pt. that not one of them learned a lesson. I know of some missionaries who scraped by to be able to go on missions, just waiting their whole lifetimes. Also the young man who was from the Potter family of North Summit who died after giving his farewell, just the magnitude of love for service was there. Let us all pray both member and non member alike to acknowledge the creator and start the healing process as we recognize this as a grave wrong to fellow human beings. Protect all missionaries of all faiths as there seems to be a division forthcomming amongst good people. Do not use this to destroy what the creator would want as many have left a legacy to follow in all religions. Maybe it is time for all churches to reconcile our differences and give to the creator his devine message of Peace. Let us take time to acknowledge the worth of all and go with the task at hand in the most upmost manner as the Savior would want!His true followers will reveal themselves!

Comments continue below

rem | 7:50 p.m. March 10, 2008

Its unfortunate that this occurred. Missionaries are generally respectful. I will be interesting to see what turns up in the investigation.

The church has acted quickly in this case. I was a little surprised to hear that the missionary still serving, was sent home. Good public relations are important to any organization. There is no evidence that the missionaries vandalized the statue, or just found it that way. Regarding the pictures, young men can do silly things without intending harm.

While this incident is unfortunate, good will come out of it. The shrine will be repaired, relationships mended, and missionaries will be reminded of the importance of appropriate behavior.

DN | 7:51 p.m. March 10, 2008

Another lesson for all of us of the LDS Faith that our actions have consequences. The bar for full time missionaries was raised for a reason. This senseless act just destroys relationships that have taken so long to build. My personal feeling is these young men need to be the ones to pay for repairs. I am sure the local Ward and Branch units will serve the church in whatever capacity they may to continue RE-building these relationships. Shame on you young men.

Chris | 8:06 p.m. March 10, 2008

There are jerks in all churches. Let the church that is perfect cast the first stone.

to rightascension | 8:10 p.m. March 10, 2008

You must have missed the letter of apology and confession from one of the missionaries who was a part of it (mentioned in other articles). So you have pictures and their word. What more do you want, video?

Minerman | 8:13 p.m. March 10, 2008

Hey, how about everyone relax a bit. People don't just get some kind of guilty verdict passed down from the LDS leaders. They always have a chance to defend themselves. Heck, I was disfellowshiped a long time ago, and they gave me every chance to defend myself, or whatever I felt was necessary. If they were disciplined by the LDS church, it's because they either admitted to it, or there was enough proof against them t hand down some kind of discipline, so before you get all up in arms defending them, and the whole innocent before proven guitly, realize that at least according to church courts (which doesn't mean they broke a law, just that they exhibited conduct unbecoming an Elder in the church)...according to the church courts, they did SOMETHING wrong. If it was two years ago I'd have to believe that they came out and took responsibility for whatever their part was (big or small, we don't know). In reality, if they were disciplined, they did something, and they are probably taking some kind responsibility for it. Lay off. They were (and probably still are) young boys.

The Raven | 8:19 p.m. March 10, 2008

The behavior of these missionaries was not very bright, to say the least. If they did vandalize the shrine, they should pay the legal price, whatever it may be. That said, most missionaries I've met/known would not act like this. A very unfortunate incident.

Paul | 8:21 p.m. March 10, 2008

Rightascention seems to think there is some kind of conspiracy going on, I guess. Seems like the guys involved in this know what is going on, especially since the Mission President delivered an apology to the Catholics from one of the missionaries. While we don't know if the three caused the damage, it would probably be a good idea for the LDS Church to work with the Catholics on getting everything repaired. And maybe those three guys can spend a year or two doing service work for their local Catholic church. That might teach them something.

Matt Connelly | 8:21 p.m. March 10, 2008

This is a very unfortunate event indeed. As a Mormon I apologize to anyone offended by these senseless actions. I hope that people will realize that this is not representative of the way Mormons behave in the vast majority of circumanstances. My guess is that these young men were 19 or 20 and particularly immature even for their age. It's too bad. I was sorry to see that one of them had their mission terminated. This was indeed an unfortunate incident, but we are a people who believe in forgiveness. This would have been a very strong teaching moment for the young man involved. Perhaps there were other circumstances that were not made public that warranted the termination. I hope so. Because I'd hate to see someone's life and reputation permanently damaged for the sake of political expediency. I hope we can all heal from this unfortunate incident and do all we can to demonstrate tolerance and love for those who believe differently than we do.

re: to rightacension | 8:25 p.m. March 10, 2008

He wants it to be completely forgotten since it happened to someone elses property and not his.

Matthew in Toronto | 8:33 p.m. March 10, 2008

There is no conspiracy here, just some 19-20 year olds not thinking straight. They will be taught there lesson from the church and the law. There is no excuse for this behaviour. Unfortunately for them they will always be remembered as the idiots who did such a horribly atrocious act.

No apology needed | 8:36 p.m. March 10, 2008

We who live among the LDS need no apology. We are used to the behavior and the ostraciztion. No apologies needed as I think enough humility has been done on this day.

Ridiculous | 8:38 p.m. March 10, 2008

I am sad to see this as a returned missionary and LDS member. I feel embarrassed by these moronic actions. I have a wonderful uncle that is Catholic and I horrible that our missionaries would do something like this.

I think this is a great lesson for members and missionaries. It's pretty simple. Don't do stupid stuff.

CougarKeith | 8:51 p.m. March 10, 2008

This is very sad, very sad, we all make mistakes, just that when it's us it's magnified. Should never have happened to begin with.

interested | 8:50 p.m. March 10, 2008

To rightascension,

There are many questions that are not answered, but that does not mean there is not guilt. The damage was not discovered until the photos actually showed the damage and it was confirmed. Read the article again more carefully.

It is best to leave it to the authorities and the LDS Church to punish the offenders.

To to rightascension,

The letter of appology referred to in the other article did not confess to decapitating the statue, but to mocking the sacred sites. This alone is enough to receive punishment from the LDS Church.

Was the statue already damaged? Could be, heck it took 1 1/2 yrs to figure out it was damaged now. However, because it appears the missionaries did this the Church will seek to make amends since they were offical representatives of the LDS Church at the time.

The LDS Church likely will not face a lawsuit because the leaders did not sanction it or give instructions to act the way the missionaries did. Also they have contacted the parish and will do all they can to make the parish whole.

The missionaries will likely face legal issues as a result of their actions.

Ridiculous II | 8:49 p.m. March 10, 2008

This seems hypocritical of the Church. If the same thing had happened and the media hadn't gone national with it these missionaries would have gotten their hands slapped. So their crime was letting it go national?

If they broke the statue they should be charged, sneaking funny pictures in the Catholic Church is done by every altar boy from here to Botswana.

SteveB | 8:54 p.m. March 10, 2008

I've never understood why some LDS buy into the old Protestant anti-Catholic animosity, since Catholicism probably has more beliefs in common with us than most Protestant strains (need for priesthood authority, importance of works along with faith, e.g.). You never hear of Protestant churches being ridiculed thusly; but I well recall, years ago on my mission in a Catholic country, being shown photos some of our elders had taken of themselves acting disrespectfully inside a Catholic Church. In point of fact, most of what we call Western Civilization was birthed by the Catholic Church and associated culture -- art, architecture, universities, and so forth. Without the diligence of those Medieval Catholic monks, we would have no record of the Savior's mortal life, or the writings of the apostles, or of many other things. For all its mistakes, Catholicism has been -- and remains -- a great civilizing vehicle, and it's high time we LDS did a better job acknowledging that. If we did, this kind of hooliganism might never happen again.

To interested | 9:02 p.m. March 10, 2008

While you are right that the LDS leaders did not (nor would ever) sanction such an event. These young members are essentially employees or representative of the larger group. Sad but it is not as simple as you would believe. This is ab lack eye for all LDS and culture we are raising with our future-- Perhaps it is time the missionary age is raised to that of mature people bacause I do not thing a 19 year can handle the world or take into context the task at hand.

manaen | 8:55 p.m. March 10, 2008

Marvin J. Aston spoke to us missionaries in Argentina in the early 1970's. His talk was about staying away from the "DIMS"
* D = Discouragement
* I = Idleness
* M = Murmuring
* S = STUPID THINGS. His examples were missionaries taking photos of themselves sitting on the head of a statue of Buddha in Thailand and a missionary in England punching-out the first person he encountered after receiving his "Dear John" -- a London Bobby on patrol. Mebbe we should raise the bar just a bit higher.

reasonable | 9:02 p.m. March 10, 2008

Is there any proof that the statue's head wasn't already detached and was just "balancing" when the missionaries discovered it? (I will have to reread the article after I post this). If the missionairies intentionally decapitated the statue, then that is a horrible offense. But if it had already happened and they were just fooling around with the head, it is certainly in very poor taste and immature, but hardly an attack against the other church. Maybe it was just a group of rambunctious young people goofing off!! Missionaries make mistakes just like we all do. Is it possible that this is being taken way too far?

Mister S | 8:59 p.m. March 10, 2008

Take aprox. 50,000 guys this age and it's amazing we don't hear of more of this kind of behavior. I was also sorry to hear that the missionary who was still on his mission was sent home. But actions have consequences. I hope they are able to make restitution for what they have done and move on. Guys this age sometimes just do stupid things.

Bill | 9:00 p.m. March 10, 2008

These missionaries commited a crime, they should be prosecuted, just the same as anyone else. It's a shame that these few missionaries were insensitive and sacrilegious. They should know the feeling of intolerance against them because of their religion, but, that should never translate into intolerance of others religious beliefs. I just don't know if they would be prosecuted though, since protesters come to Utah and throw garments and disecrate sacred objects to mormons. There never seems to be a crime when they do it, but, it's freedom of speech. So I am confused as to when it's a crime and when it's not.

Phil | 9:09 p.m. March 10, 2008

That area of the San Luis valley is pente tente area. Catholics who are know to beat themselfs during Easter. Maybe they are sick of self inflictions and want to take it out on someone else. At this point there is not absolute evidence that the damage was done by those missionaries. Most catholic stuff like that is open to the public, so I wonder about the trespassing. Anyway, this will hurt the relationship with the hispanics catholics in the area, hence why this was published in the Pueblo Chiefton.

JoeB | 9:11 p.m. March 10, 2008

Boys will be boys.

Eastern Observer | 9:11 p.m. March 10, 2008

Oh, they did it. One already apologized. Two pictures can be seen on a local Colorado news website - "preaching" behind the altar and that of the statue head. I do have to say, though, that possibly the statue was already broken and the elder just picked it up and posed (still a silly and immature act). Remember past desecration of our own temples. Think how violated we would feel if young adults of any other faith photographed each other poking fun behind and on the Sacrament Table or, worse yet, a Temple altar. Catholic grounds and churches are generally left unlocked so that the faithful may enter for meditation in a peaceful setting, not so that rude Mormon missionaries bored on p-day or in search of a "fun" greenie challenge can desecrate them. As a 20-yr. convert from Catholicism, I dread the conversation sure to be initiated by my Catholic relatives if this story goes national. They witnessed and were very unimpressed by the middle-school antics of missionaries serving in their community some years back. My son is serving now, and I'd rather have him sent home for falling in love than for something like this.

Why was the missionary sent home | 9:08 p.m. March 10, 2008

I can't believe the missionary was sent home...... How sad. I don't really think this is a big deal, sad to say. Granted they did something wrong but not enough to get sent home? That really discourages me!!

Dottie R. | 9:14 p.m. March 10, 2008

As a Catholic who enjoys the friendship of many LDS people, I am saddened by this dreadful show of hooligan behavior on the part of these LDS missionaries.

They have brought shame to the wonderful people of the LDS faith. I wish I could comfort all of them. Please know that I do not blame anyone for the sad action of these unthinking young men. No right thinking person of any sect will.

Anonymous | 9:26 p.m. March 10, 2008

This goes to show that the only time the LDS Church and its members are a threat and a danger to society is when they do things that contradict the Gospel of Christ.

Fonzi thinks: NOT COOL | 9:27 p.m. March 10, 2008

Shameful. I am not a fan of the LDS religion but would never think of mocking it; even when I was 19. Very sad as these are young men of stature and hold positions of a priesthood within the LDS culture. They should be ashamed and for those who just think this is boyhood behavior need to look at their values as well.

To Dottie R. | 9:22 p.m. March 10, 2008

Are Catholic boys perfect? I don't think so. How many Catholic's sin all week and ask for forgiveness once a week only to return and continue to sin? These boys are not hooligans they just made a stupid decision and I'm sure they are sorry for it. I don't think it is up to us to judge them. They have to repent and ask forgiveness. Are you perfect?

Anonymous | 9:24 p.m. March 10, 2008

Those who have served LDS missions may recall blaming "the adversary" when a person discontinues investigation of the Gospel because of family or other opposition. I still believe that's true, but this incident is also the adversary's work. It is even worse. The adversary's most effective course will be to pull an inside job and entice missionaries like these to make the choices they did.

CougInColorado | 9:26 p.m. March 10, 2008

For what it's worth, as part of my own missionary service and heard anecdotally from friends, church and missionary leadership typically drop the hammer a bit harder when there are photographs of stupid, juvenile actions, and I believe it's for this reason. Missionaries represent and bring attention to the church in a manner that is unique. Right or wrong and for better or for worse, their conduct reflects upon the church as a whole, so documenting stupidity is a notch up from just the stupidity.

For my part, I also hope that the parish in Colorado can be understanding of 19-20 year old immaturity. We in Colorado are willing to try to find a way to restore our friendship. Speaking for myself, I feel terrible and hope that can have some bearing on the church's efforts to apologize as well.

Reality | 9:31 p.m. March 10, 2008

If anyone thinks this representation is abnormal then your head is in the sand. It is obviously more visual but if you think this is out of the norm in Zion or how we treat are neighbors; well them I truly fell sorry for you and you perception of culture.

To JoeB | 9:32 p.m. March 10, 2008

Does this mean my son can go into the LDS temple and mock and take pictures now??? Let me know and I'll pick him up right now to take him there.
Somehow I don't think it is.
These young men were in a church not of their own doing something they shouldn't be. This is tresspassing!!!!!

RE: To Dottie R. | 9:35 p.m. March 10, 2008

This must mean it's alright then

Response to ignorant post | 9:42 p.m. March 10, 2008

To "Why was he sent home," who said "I can't believe the missionary was sent home...... How sad. I don't really think this is a big deal, sad to say. Granted they did something wrong but not enough to get sent home? That really discourages me!!"

What they did was illegal and each of them could be convicted on 6 separate charges including several felonies. You may not consider it a big thing but I suspect that if someone vandalized your property which cost you thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of dollars to repair you whould be upset too. At minimum they should be sent home. Let's all hope that the Prosecutors will go light on them.

Free Agency | 10:10 p.m. March 10, 2008

It is rediculious to think this was representative of the LDS or these people were acting on behalve of the LDS church or the LDS culture. These young men were missionaries free and clear and were not acing on or representing the LDS church or culture in any manner.

Kyle | 10:22 p.m. March 10, 2008

Boys will be boys; and the truth is the truth. That statement is fair enough. An apology can be given for the adolecent but the truth of the LDS church cannot be challenged. To the point the church is perfect but members are not.

Cool it! | 10:35 p.m. March 10, 2008

Come on everyone. Have a sense of humor for cryin' out loud. They were just jokin' around. Geez.

to free agency & Kyle | 10:36 p.m. March 10, 2008

WHAT ? Missionaries arent representing the LDS Church ? That is exactly what missionaries are out there doing, representing YOU and your organization and in the process trying to recruit new members.
Kyle ?.......I am at a loss for words......you are the perfect example of the arogance that ticks off the rest of the universe...humility my friend, practice what you preach.

Anutta Buttars | 10:45 p.m. March 10, 2008

Either way , representing or not ..u got's to take your medicine. I want to know the background of each of these young men and what were they thinking , who was the one in charge? None of this boys will be boys stuff either, as I know many so called priesthood holders who desecrate things either by word or action what others call sacred..all because they think they belong to a good ol' boy system which justifies their stupid actions and remarks..no WHIP-DEE-DOO this time! I hope your church sends a message at this next big general conference as others will be watching if you mean what you say!Draw the line as I thought your standards were not for sale..maybe I am wrong but I wouldn't do no damage in my maddest moments to any of your property. There's alot of people from over there that way, reading these blogs who are my relatives also. As so many of your religion are always harping BE Accountable!!!And leave Dottie alone Too!

To: Free Agency | 10:46 p.m. March 10, 2008

These missionaries as you put it are "not free and clear" of the LDS church. They are representatives of the church and if you want to get into the weeds or details of a corperation could be deemed employees. There is copability here and hence the Damage Control Machine issuing statement from SLC.

verite | 10:48 p.m. March 10, 2008

I think it's nothing short of disgusting how many of you are anxious to dismiss this with words like "these are immature 19 year olds" and "maybe the statues were already broken" (as if that mattered...). They broke laws. They behaved indecently. They abused the memory of religious and cultural icons that were important in that community whose beliefs you're arrogant enough to feel are not as "true" as yours.

Are these not people you call and expect others to call "elders"? Are they not endowed holders of your priesthood? Have you not sent them out on the presumption that they are more knowledgeable with sacred truths to share? And they behave in a way that offends any decent, civilized person regardless of their religion or lack thereof!

I'd like to hear how you react when 19 year old African Americans behave "like boys being boys". I'd like to hear how you'd react if a member of any other faith entered your temples even in a spirit of respect.

I think you should all consider this a big old mirror held up so that you can see yourselves in your reactions. NOT pretty!

Sean | 10:48 p.m. March 10, 2008

I'm LDS

I do agree with Rightascension on the point that there really wasn't enough info given in the news article. At first it was very easy to believe that it was possible that they did nothing wrong other than being in the wrong place and wrong position.

However, I do feel that they were young and didn't take into account what they were doing. I don't see this as horrific as much as just stupid. Many people make mistakes.

I do not feel that the one should have been sent home. It will disgrace him his whole life and he will have to deal with everyone being rude to him now. He will have enough punishment from this alone. The town wants legal action and many LDS members are upset as well.

President Hinckley gave a wonderful talk about forgiveness not too long ago about a women having a frozen Turkey thrown at her. I admire her level of forgiveness which is closer to what we ought to be than anything I see here.

They boys were wrong. Everyone is casting stones and few are forgiving. The public is committing the worse crime. These boys have futures!

Forgive!

catholic in slc | 10:56 p.m. March 10, 2008

I was a member of the LDs church for a few years, went to the temple, got married there, yada yada yada. As long as the LDS church teaches that catholisism is the "great whore of babylon" and that they are the one true and living church then the people of the faith will continue to abuse the non-believers. If any LDS people want to say that those things aren't taught don't bother. I've heard the classes in your church and it made me renew my faith in Catholisism. Also, to those that say these are just young men, that is an insult to all the REAL young men serving their country right now in an unjust war not of their choosing. If a young marine in Iraq defaced a Muslim holy site he would be court martialed. As soon as Utah stops legislating adulthood then maybe the children will grow up. PS...My wife and I are still married and we and especially she are happier now than we ever were while trying to live up to foolish expectations.

jBob | 11:03 p.m. March 10, 2008

Typical actions from 19 year olds. I guess that 19 year olds are competent to be representing the Mormon religion?

to commentator | 11:00 p.m. March 10, 2008

remember to be a true journalist and post all views, not predominatly LDS views only, you discredit yourself by sheltering free speech.

Vanessa | 11:07 p.m. March 10, 2008

The problem is that Missionaries go out as representatives for the LDS faith. They are ambassadors. If an Ambassador from China was here and tore up a United states Flag that would be a big problem. Missionaries go out and are put on a pedastal. They come doing the bidding of god. It was their choice, and if memory serves me right, they even paid to do this service for God. So for a missionary to do something rotten and against blatant church beliefs is obviously a bi problem. Would be the same if it were born again missionaries or jehovahs witnesses or whatever. As a young woman growing up in Utah, I know that MANY young that go off on their missions do it because they are supposed to, not for love of God, or any other reason, so no they probably aren't mature enough. Funny how a woman has to wait two more years to go on a mission but women are proven to mature faster than men....
these young men should be punished equally as any other, but, It all comes down the fact that it was 3 young men, not a ward, or a church leader.

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AP photo/The Pueblo Chieftain, Mike Sweeney

La Capilla de Todos Los Santos or the Chapel of All Saints in San Luis, Colo. is framed by a sculpture of Jesus Christ. Deputies are investigating allegations that LDS missionaries may have decapitated a statue of a Mexican martyr and mocked a Catholic shrine in the San Luis Valley of southern Colorado.