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LDS World: Learning from others outside Mormondom
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Hedwig | 5:14 a.m. March 5, 2008
Appreciating truth wherever it is -- does that include the Bible?
Um, Hedwig? | 7:19 a.m. March 5, 2008
We believe the Bible to be the word of God (as far as it is translated
correctly)...
Comments continue below
Well Duh | 8:59 a.m. March 5, 2008
I would hope that nobody in the LDS Church thinks that nothing outside it is
usable. I wonder where the Young Men's program would be without outside
influence. So many programs have has inspiration elsewhere. LDS Leaders quote
CS Lewis and other authors during conference talks.
And yes we use the Bible...LOTS and LOTS of Bible usage. It is after all scripture. That anybody would suggest otherwise it believing gossip and rumor over actuality.
And yes we use the Bible...LOTS and LOTS of Bible usage. It is after all scripture. That anybody would suggest otherwise it believing gossip and rumor over actuality.
TomH | 9:47 a.m. March 5, 2008
The Book of Mormon affirms that both the Bible and the Book of Mormon
"together" confound the false doctrines that are around in the world
today.
For the LDS therefore, if we did not have the Bible, the word of God would be incomplete.
When we carefully consider Christian history, and how we received the Bible, it is a miracle that it was preserved.
But ALL faiths must acknowledge that we all believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly. Why? Because it passed through so many translations at the hands of fallible humans.
The translation of the Book of Mormon was only ONE translation and the printer still made many errors in the first publications, even when they had the original manuscripts.
What's most important about the Bible is that the doctrines are sound. However, the Bible by itself did not prevent many different interpretations of it.
But together with the Bible AND the Book of Mormon, and the Doctrine and Covenants, those three witness triangulate doctrine the most complete way.
"In the mouth of two or three witness, shall I establish my word."
For the LDS therefore, if we did not have the Bible, the word of God would be incomplete.
When we carefully consider Christian history, and how we received the Bible, it is a miracle that it was preserved.
But ALL faiths must acknowledge that we all believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly. Why? Because it passed through so many translations at the hands of fallible humans.
The translation of the Book of Mormon was only ONE translation and the printer still made many errors in the first publications, even when they had the original manuscripts.
What's most important about the Bible is that the doctrines are sound. However, the Bible by itself did not prevent many different interpretations of it.
But together with the Bible AND the Book of Mormon, and the Doctrine and Covenants, those three witness triangulate doctrine the most complete way.
"In the mouth of two or three witness, shall I establish my word."
Raymond Takashi Swenson | 10:19 a.m. March 5, 2008
This is a good reminder to us that the 13th Article of Faith invites us to
actively implement a search for all the things in the world that are virtuous,
lovely, and praiseworthy. We should be gathering to Zion not only people but
also languages, history, literature, and the best human efforts to understand
God and his creation.
One way to fulfill the 13th article of Faith is to read good books and good periodicals, journals and magazines written by people who also have faith in God. They help us understand the vocabulary of our neighbors in other churches, and understand their impressions of us. We can appreciate our similarities and understand the reasons for our differences, and we will be better prepared, when the opportunity comes, to explain what we believe in terms that they can comprehend, if not embrace.
Two publications I read frequently are Christianity Today and First Things. The first serves the broad community of Evangelical Christians, and gives insight into the diversity of viewpoints among them. The second addresses the need for religious voices to be heard on issues of public policy, especially those that affect churches, such as religious freedom.
One way to fulfill the 13th article of Faith is to read good books and good periodicals, journals and magazines written by people who also have faith in God. They help us understand the vocabulary of our neighbors in other churches, and understand their impressions of us. We can appreciate our similarities and understand the reasons for our differences, and we will be better prepared, when the opportunity comes, to explain what we believe in terms that they can comprehend, if not embrace.
Two publications I read frequently are Christianity Today and First Things. The first serves the broad community of Evangelical Christians, and gives insight into the diversity of viewpoints among them. The second addresses the need for religious voices to be heard on issues of public policy, especially those that affect churches, such as religious freedom.
me | 10:23 a.m. March 5, 2008
I am in total agreement, we do need to be more tolerant, loving and accepting of
people of all faiths!!
for TomH | 10:33 a.m. March 5, 2008
.
Sorry, TomH....that is the problem. The Bible is the standard used by Christianity to judge all other teachings, including: BoM, D&C, LDS prophets, Koran, teachings of JWs, teachings of Hindus, and all work-based religions, new age,....yes, even within the Christian Church by those who are led astray by pastors and leaders who promote themselves as the 'prophet' or 'truth-sayer' for their flock.
The Bible is the Word of God. It is the Standard. It proceeds all; and judges all, other teachings and religious books. Not the other way, around.
You can make claims about the BoM, and subtitle it as 'another testament', but it is clearly in conflict...(as is LDS teachings) with God's Word. Sorry. I hope you will consider praying for the Holy Ghost to give you, discernment and lead you through God's Word, so that you will open your eyes to the Truth. Stating words from your LDS leaders as to the Bible 'being translated, incorrectly' is not true. The Bible is reliable...just as Jesus say it is. Get on-line, and do a little digging. The Holy Ghost will protect you...and lead you to the Way, the Truth and the Life.
I'm praying for you.
Sorry, TomH....that is the problem. The Bible is the standard used by Christianity to judge all other teachings, including: BoM, D&C, LDS prophets, Koran, teachings of JWs, teachings of Hindus, and all work-based religions, new age,....yes, even within the Christian Church by those who are led astray by pastors and leaders who promote themselves as the 'prophet' or 'truth-sayer' for their flock.
The Bible is the Word of God. It is the Standard. It proceeds all; and judges all, other teachings and religious books. Not the other way, around.
You can make claims about the BoM, and subtitle it as 'another testament', but it is clearly in conflict...(as is LDS teachings) with God's Word. Sorry. I hope you will consider praying for the Holy Ghost to give you, discernment and lead you through God's Word, so that you will open your eyes to the Truth. Stating words from your LDS leaders as to the Bible 'being translated, incorrectly' is not true. The Bible is reliable...just as Jesus say it is. Get on-line, and do a little digging. The Holy Ghost will protect you...and lead you to the Way, the Truth and the Life.
I'm praying for you.
SLMG | 1:57 p.m. March 5, 2008
for TomH, you missed the whole point of the article, perhaps you should read it
again after a bit of prayer.
It says nothing about tearing another religion down but taking the best from each and incorporating them into your life.
If you believe the Bible is the only word of God (I respectful disagree) that is your privilege but at least read other doctrine to expand your thinking.
It says nothing about tearing another religion down but taking the best from each and incorporating them into your life.
If you believe the Bible is the only word of God (I respectful disagree) that is your privilege but at least read other doctrine to expand your thinking.
crimen del siglo | 1:58 p.m. March 5, 2008
sorry, the Bible itself does not CLAIM to BE or to CONTAIN THE word of God.
in some instances it quotes God or says that God said this or that. the Bible generally says what the authorS wrote, without reference to God being the source of the material. the Bible doesn�t contain much doctrine or sacred information; most christian belief is an interpolation or inference of what the author wrote.
Bible is mostly history of violence. is that the portion that contains the word of God? the words of soloman?
you say the Bible is/contains the word of God. count the words/sentences. your god hasn�t spoke much. you say the word of an infinite all-knowing God can be contained within a few hundred pages, that He has told us everything He intends us to know about Him and life.
MOST of the new testament does not quote Jesus Christ; when it does it is repeated by the 4 gospels; Matthew-Mark-Luke-John don�t really show that Jesus spoke much doctrine. count the words; count the sentences.
your unchanging, unique respecter-of-people god spoke to a non-christian group has ceased to talk.
in some instances it quotes God or says that God said this or that. the Bible generally says what the authorS wrote, without reference to God being the source of the material. the Bible doesn�t contain much doctrine or sacred information; most christian belief is an interpolation or inference of what the author wrote.
Bible is mostly history of violence. is that the portion that contains the word of God? the words of soloman?
you say the Bible is/contains the word of God. count the words/sentences. your god hasn�t spoke much. you say the word of an infinite all-knowing God can be contained within a few hundred pages, that He has told us everything He intends us to know about Him and life.
MOST of the new testament does not quote Jesus Christ; when it does it is repeated by the 4 gospels; Matthew-Mark-Luke-John don�t really show that Jesus spoke much doctrine. count the words; count the sentences.
your unchanging, unique respecter-of-people god spoke to a non-christian group has ceased to talk.
TomH? | 2:08 p.m. March 5, 2008
Without the Book of Mormon, 13+ million people in the world today would have
stuck with TomH along with him, his christian followers in their world of
confussions & their world of mis-interpretations of the Holy Bible. I said
stuck, of course the Nicea Creed is evidenced to TomH's confussions. The
Holy Bible works side by side with the Book of Mormon, and they both testify of
Jesus the Christ.
Go figure....Are you comfortable TomH of driving a vehicle with one weak headlight on, in the darkness of nite? I'm not, and I prefer two strong headlites (The Holy Bible & The Book of Mormon) to guide me safely home.
As Raynond wrote: The 13th Article of Faith invites us to actively implement a search for all the things in the world that are virtuous, lovely, and praiseworthy.
The early members came into the Church with beliefs from their own previous faiths & I do believe the 13th.AofF served them well including any newly baptized members of the Church. We search after things with good reports.
Go figure....Are you comfortable TomH of driving a vehicle with one weak headlight on, in the darkness of nite? I'm not, and I prefer two strong headlites (The Holy Bible & The Book of Mormon) to guide me safely home.
As Raynond wrote: The 13th Article of Faith invites us to actively implement a search for all the things in the world that are virtuous, lovely, and praiseworthy.
The early members came into the Church with beliefs from their own previous faiths & I do believe the 13th.AofF served them well including any newly baptized members of the Church. We search after things with good reports.
Ken Knickerbocker | 3:59 p.m. March 5, 2008
TomH,
Your question is a good and valid one. But I'm not sure this is the right forum for that discussion.
I would rather us focus on what we 1) do agree on and 2) what we could do together. Rick & Kay Warren together with Jim Wallis set the tone for what our discussion should be.
Surely you'll recognize that every 6th verse in the four gospels of the New Testament talks about the poor and watching out for the less fortunate among us and in the world.
Instead of bickering here we should be asking each other what we can do to make the world a better place for those who need our assistance.
Care to join me to see what we can do together?
Ken
Your question is a good and valid one. But I'm not sure this is the right forum for that discussion.
I would rather us focus on what we 1) do agree on and 2) what we could do together. Rick & Kay Warren together with Jim Wallis set the tone for what our discussion should be.
Surely you'll recognize that every 6th verse in the four gospels of the New Testament talks about the poor and watching out for the less fortunate among us and in the world.
Instead of bickering here we should be asking each other what we can do to make the world a better place for those who need our assistance.
Care to join me to see what we can do together?
Ken
Rick | 4:31 p.m. March 5, 2008
On one hand, this article claims that the LDS are not only "tolerant"
of other religions, but welcome the spiritual insights and doctrinal
contributions.
But on the other hand, CANONIZED LDS doctrine states unequivocally that:
The LDS Church is "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased" (D&C1:30)
All other Churches on the face of the whole earth are "all wrong; ...all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." (Pearl-of-Great-Price, JS-History 1:19)
How can LDS leaders and members reconcile this obvious conflict? Is it any wonder that talk of tolerance and fellowship by LDS are seen as disingenuous? It appears to be nothing more than a ploy to attract new proselytes.
But on the other hand, CANONIZED LDS doctrine states unequivocally that:
The LDS Church is "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased" (D&C1:30)
All other Churches on the face of the whole earth are "all wrong; ...all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." (Pearl-of-Great-Price, JS-History 1:19)
How can LDS leaders and members reconcile this obvious conflict? Is it any wonder that talk of tolerance and fellowship by LDS are seen as disingenuous? It appears to be nothing more than a ploy to attract new proselytes.
Anonymous | 5:35 p.m. March 5, 2008
To Rick,
Add to your list Elder Holland's mocking of the Trinitarian doctrine in LDS General Conference last October. Tolerance? Respect? Dialog? Fellowship?
Paleeeeese! Don't make me choke...
Add to your list Elder Holland's mocking of the Trinitarian doctrine in LDS General Conference last October. Tolerance? Respect? Dialog? Fellowship?
Paleeeeese! Don't make me choke...
Marie Devine | 6:25 p.m. March 5, 2008
A Beautiful Article! Good Comments! The other religions were abominations to God
because they did not follow the whole Bible. Jesus said to live by EVERY word
of God. Joseph Smith translated the whole Bible but his mind stayed with the
previous dcotrines of the churches. He didn't restore the law and the
prophets for the kingdom of God.
He restored the priesthood, the sacraments, baptism for the dead, "precious things easy to understand" that were taken out of the Bible, the temples and treasuries... The Doctrines and Covenants records Jesus' commandments to establish the one church that God promised to gather us all to. (One fold, one shepherd).
God cross-references prophets verifying each other including Joseph Smith's work. Muhammad verified the Book of Mormon as a "book already gone forth for an appointed time" and that things were taken from the Bible. I think the Bab fortold of a youth being used. Joseph began at 15. Isaiah fortells of the book at the time for the gathering.
Muhammad was a prophet to "say, O People of the Scripture, you stand on nothing till you observe the Torah, Gospels and what God has sent down" "Believe all books from God."
He restored the priesthood, the sacraments, baptism for the dead, "precious things easy to understand" that were taken out of the Bible, the temples and treasuries... The Doctrines and Covenants records Jesus' commandments to establish the one church that God promised to gather us all to. (One fold, one shepherd).
God cross-references prophets verifying each other including Joseph Smith's work. Muhammad verified the Book of Mormon as a "book already gone forth for an appointed time" and that things were taken from the Bible. I think the Bab fortold of a youth being used. Joseph began at 15. Isaiah fortells of the book at the time for the gathering.
Muhammad was a prophet to "say, O People of the Scripture, you stand on nothing till you observe the Torah, Gospels and what God has sent down" "Believe all books from God."
Greg | 12:03 a.m. March 6, 2008
I always find it interesting how these discussions seem to attract the religious
bigots who have nothing hatred in their hearts. I think Christ would have called
them Pharisees. I am comforted by the fact that it will be Christ who will judge
us....not those who seem to think that they can speak for him or define who is a
Christian. As you judge.....so shall you be judged.
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