Comments about ‘Lawmakers combine education, tax bills’

Whatever you do, don't put it on the WPU. Teachers will never see a dime of it. It will go to district offices and their pet projects.

$$$ for software for pre-schoolers? Where in the heck did that idea come from? Worse use of tax money I have ever heard of. Did that legislator have stock in some computer company? Was it held by a relative?

Seriously. That one is out there....

It is probably a good idea to combine these bills. I can already hear the UEA crying foul. They will not want anything based on performancce. I really think more of it needs to be based on performance. Real reform and the UEA are diametric opposites.

The software is from Waterford and it has not been tested on preschoolers to see if it even helps them. This money essentially allows them to do the testing on tax payer dollars. The bill that originally paid for this was defeated in the House last Thursday and now they have snuck it in to the omnibus bill. Your Representatives and tax dollars at work.

Just sneak in some UEA defeating provision. Please.

This is an interesting twist. Too bad there is not more real reform to include in it. That would be one way to institute overdue reforms to the state public education system. That may be the only way to ever get real reforms into education. The UEA and the State Office of Education would not know reform if it bit them on the _ _ _ (posterior).

The fact that at least three bills that have been previously defeated are being put into this omnibus catchall is ridiculous. It means that a small group of legislative leadership is micromanaging education. Putting in ideas that have had no time for public debate, like pay for performance, something that was agreed upon to be worked out of the next year, and miraculously funded with $25 million dollars is amazing.

Why all the venom against UEA? Don't people see the whole education community, PTA, school boards, and superintendents speaking out?

Waterford software is extremely expensive and shows very little in student improvement. There is a better way to use technology to raise test scores. For some reason Senator Howard Stevenson has been pushing integrated learning systems or Drill and kill software for several years now. If we were really smart we would be looking at what the state of Maine is doing in giving each child a Macintosh laptop and providing professional development for the teachers. Drill and practice software in a lab is a step backwards. Kids need modern tools 24/7 just like we in the business world have access to our modern tools 24/7. Drill and practice software is a very short sighted way to go.
This bill is bad legislation. They are trying to sneak through those bills that have already been killed. I would call and tell your senator to vote the whole thing down until they can be honest with the public.

If the software is Waterford Literacy, then it has been tested, just maybe not by Utah. It is used for pre-readers and early readers in several subjects up through pre-teen ages.

I volunteered for the program and spent several months on it. Once kids learn how to operate a mouse, it is pretty self-directed.

Yes, it works, and yes it helps kids. My only concern would be using it to replace Kindergarten teachers, which it shouldn't.

Then again, considering the exodus of teachers in this state, maybe that's what it IS all about.

More shenanigans by our "voted" legislatures. What is it about getting voted into an office and leaving all common sense and brains back in the house.

I thought I left luny legislators in California when I moved back to Utah, but it looks like many of them simply followed me here.

The best things that can happen to a preschooler is to educate the parent who apparently is not doing the job and then the educated parent can help other children as they come along. Sadly too many of these preschoolers have parents who made little effort to get a quality education when they were in school. Parties and goofing or cutting school was more important to them. I speak from 33 years of experience seeing this time and time again.

Merit pay is a wonderful thing. When a high school teacher has 180 students from 180 different backgrounds it is rather difficult to see exactly how it will work. I would love to see a quality merit pay system which factors in this 180 X 180 to equal 32400 various settings in a given day a teacher must face.

Teaching Learning styles does better to get expected benefits.

Give the money to the districts? That has to be the worst idea mentioned in a bill full of bad ideas. If you aren't going to give the money directly to the teachers, don't give it at all. At least not until you have built in some checks and balances to keep the districts from misappropriating it. In fact, I wouldn't even allocate it to the teachers unless there are some strict protections built in to protect it from fraudulent abuse by districts. Giving money to those theives is like throwing it in a black hole.

To Science Teacher:
Waterford told me themselves that it had not been tested yet--straight from the horses mouth. In fact, they were very evasive when that question was asked. It seemed obvious that they didn't want us to know that part.

I don't see why the taxpayers have to fund computer programs for preschoolers. It is infinitely better for a parent to read with a preschooler, allows them to talk about what they are reading, ask questions, respond to questions, and so on. Can't do any of that with a software program. We are so tempted to turn everything over to computers. The kids will miss out on a lot if we get rid that parental interaction that should be taking place a preschoolers education and replace it with a computer.

Are these Legislators really this pompous?

Do they feel accountable to anyone?

I am going for a straight anti-incumbent ticket next Election

The good citizens of Utah sacrifice so teachers can get a raise, but administrators making 135K a year must get their % out of it before it reaches the bottom (that would be teachers). At 3%, a principal making 90K gets a 2700 dollar raise, a first year teacher gets a 900 dollar raise. This is what keeps salaries for teachers so low! If it is earmarked for teachers then make sure teachers are the ones who get it! It has NEVER happened.

To Anon: have you seen the program in use? Do you know anything of the efficacy?

I have. I've had my own son use it for reading skills. It doesn't supplant a Kindergarten teacher. It just supplements. And it does a great job.

I agree with Wow I am going for a straight anti-incumbent ticket next Election.

The next thing you know we will have bills like the US Congress that cover everything and the people get left out.

Walkon, you are wrong. Teacher's salaries, mid-management (school principals), and administrative salaries are all negotiated separately. So, teachers could get 3%, while administrators get nothing. But, Utah has fewer administrators per student than any other state. Believe it or not, more administrators in a building means there are more people to deal with problem students, allowing teacher to teach.

UEA is not powerful. Stop playing the blame game. The union does not stop reform. Parents stop it. Parents do not want their students challenged or thinking critically. They want to be told that their students are "good kids" and they want them to have easy "A"s. Until Utah believes that a quality education is worth the sacrifice of money, time , and energy by the entire community, nothing will change in Utah. Don't blame UEA, blame yourselves.

I'm not a UEA member (and that ruffles a lot of feathers) nor do I support them, but I have to agree with "Mother".

The UEA doesn't have much of a say in the day to day affairs. PARENTS do, and they sure muck it up quite a bit because of the enabling practice that has all but become a disease in schools.

Why is the profession of teaching always attacked in such a vehement, ugly manner? Why is teachers' pay always the last to be legislated and continually short changed? Teacher shortage? If not now, I believe a large one is coming. Critics, feel free to fill my job.

I agree whole heartedly with the Mother who knows.

Overall our parents, teachers, and administrators are all working hard to provide the best homes, classrooms and schools possible. They have more kids in the class and work for less pay than almost every other state in the nation.

The multiple anti-UEA comments reflect an attitude of blame, ignorance and hate.

Those attitudes are very unproductive. Rather than sit back and be critical I suggest all those who wrote in call their legislator and share your feelings. Then vote for someone who accurately reflects your political ideals.

How did we get here??? Howard Stephenson who sponsored the Pre-school software bill has never had a real fight to win his election. Maybe we can change that.