Reader comments
Academic world training an eye on Mormonism
95 comments | Read story
- Page:
- < Previous
- 1
- 2
RE: Qualified | 5:37 p.m. Feb. 23, 2008
It's a college course, not a missionary moment. It's not a calling,
it's a job. Why would the prof need to be in "good standing with the
church". I don't believe that the teachers of the other religion
classes are all members of those religions.
SandySandie | 5:33 p.m. Feb. 23, 2008
Oh my gosh! I just got chills.
I heard a rumor a while ago that there is going to be a new set of missionary discussions geared more towards those a little more educated. At first I thought it was just another rumor, but now I can see the inspiration of this.
Maybe Heavenly Father wants us to focus on the more educated to build up His Church.
It�s so amazing the inspiration the Brethren have. How did they know a course was going to be taught on our Church at Harvard� AT HARVARD!
I heard a rumor a while ago that there is going to be a new set of missionary discussions geared more towards those a little more educated. At first I thought it was just another rumor, but now I can see the inspiration of this.
Maybe Heavenly Father wants us to focus on the more educated to build up His Church.
It�s so amazing the inspiration the Brethren have. How did they know a course was going to be taught on our Church at Harvard� AT HARVARD!
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 5:56 p.m. Feb. 23, 2008
"There are more presses publishing academic works about Mormonism, more
academic conferences on the religion, and more non-Mormon scholars studying The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as Mormonism is formally
known."
When did The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints change its name to Mormonism? I guess the Boston Globe and the enquirer go hand in hand.
When did The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints change its name to Mormonism? I guess the Boston Globe and the enquirer go hand in hand.
russ | 6:07 p.m. Feb. 23, 2008
Here is an interesting question. Do you need a Mormon instructor to teach a
class at a university on Mormonism?
Do universities require that a practing Catholic teach the 3 cr. course on Roman Catholicism?
This could get to be a sticky wicket, no?
I once knew a guy who had received his doctorate in Women's Studies and then was unemployed. No university wanted him to teach women's studies.
He was good at basketball, however, and appeared to be level-headed. He just couldn't break into the... field.
Do universities require that a practing Catholic teach the 3 cr. course on Roman Catholicism?
This could get to be a sticky wicket, no?
I once knew a guy who had received his doctorate in Women's Studies and then was unemployed. No university wanted him to teach women's studies.
He was good at basketball, however, and appeared to be level-headed. He just couldn't break into the... field.
ROBERT | 8:59 p.m. Feb. 23, 2008
The title of this article is mis-leading by saying that the LDS chuch is one of
the fastest growing religions in the world.
The LDS's 13 million is just a drop in the ocean compared to many religions. It is far from the fastest growing in the world.
This is just another false advertisement by the LDS's owned and operated newspaper.
The LDS's 13 million is just a drop in the ocean compared to many religions. It is far from the fastest growing in the world.
This is just another false advertisement by the LDS's owned and operated newspaper.
Myth | 9:36 p.m. Feb. 23, 2008
To ROBERT | 8:59 p.m - No one is saying that Mormonism is in the same leauge as
the Catholic or Muslim faiths, but regardless of what critics want to believe,
Mormonism is growing.
As recently as 1950, there were less than 1-million Latter-day Saints worldwide. There were only about 180 stakes, eight or nine temples, and the Book of Mormon was only available in about 20 languages.
Today, there are over 2,600 stakes, 120+ temples and the Book of Mormon is in over 90 languages. And this is only the beginning.
The LDS Church is here to say and will keep growing.
As recently as 1950, there were less than 1-million Latter-day Saints worldwide. There were only about 180 stakes, eight or nine temples, and the Book of Mormon was only available in about 20 languages.
Today, there are over 2,600 stakes, 120+ temples and the Book of Mormon is in over 90 languages. And this is only the beginning.
The LDS Church is here to say and will keep growing.
IMHO....... | 2:08 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008
Kerr�s comments that the Church is ready to assist with
information in an effort to move toward openness is interesting, as well as the
admission that they will be taking some
�lumps� along the way. They know what
is coming. For those of you who think this is a wonderful missionary
opportunity, or some historical inconsistencies are no big deal, think again.
No self-respecting academician is going to ask Ivy League students to approach
the Pearl of Great Price with a �spiritual
eye.� The intellectual theology there will focus on the
fact that the source document was located some 40 years ago, and the Egyptian
Book of the Dead has absolutely nothing to do with Kolob.
BTW�I do agree that Ed Decker is a piece of work and has made some outrageous and blatantly false claims.
BTW�I do agree that Ed Decker is a piece of work and has made some outrageous and blatantly false claims.
Sunflower | 2:51 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008
Hey, denny G., exactly what do you think will happen from having the LDS faith
honestly and fairly examined? Do you think the Church will shrivel up and die
as a result? Mormonism is a legitimate and fascinating religion and its history
is spellbinding. So what if there were a few bumps along the way? So what if
they have different and fascinating beliefs? You apparently couldn't stand
up to the rigors of living this faith and have joined the ranks of embarrassed
and apologetic ex-Mormons.
KE | 4:54 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008
I think the class should be taught by a member in good standing with sold
academic credentials.
Other religious instructors would probably have a good idea about what the church teaches and what life in the church is like, but no way would they know for sure.
A member who has been in the church for many years and is in good standing (no grudges to color their instruction) would be able to teach an informed class and answer fully any questions that arose.
The more fair, informed information about the church that is out there, the better. Open-minded, knowing adults will reject the insinuation that we are not Christians.
Other religious instructors would probably have a good idea about what the church teaches and what life in the church is like, but no way would they know for sure.
A member who has been in the church for many years and is in good standing (no grudges to color their instruction) would be able to teach an informed class and answer fully any questions that arose.
The more fair, informed information about the church that is out there, the better. Open-minded, knowing adults will reject the insinuation that we are not Christians.
KE | 4:49 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008
Oops...typo! That should read "solid academic credentials".
grego | 7:36 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008
I invite any of you "LDS hides history and it's all lies" critics
to find a good Mormon apologetics website and set forth your arguments. While
the simple answers most LDS use are not purely correct with regards to many of
the topics (few simple answers set forth by anyone seem to be 100% correct),
they are still much closer to actual physical, temporal evidence than what the
critics say.
Married to a Mormon | 9:04 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008
I took the Bishop seriously when he suggested to study the scriptures. I
studied Greek and what I learned from my studies of 2nd-4th century Greek
manuscripts was not only were the Greek scriptures reliable
the entire NT could be recreated by quotes from the Church Fathers. I know of least one Greek LDS scholar, who left the Church, when he realized this.
When you can read the Bible in Greek, it is inspiring.
the entire NT could be recreated by quotes from the Church Fathers. I know of least one Greek LDS scholar, who left the Church, when he realized this.
When you can read the Bible in Greek, it is inspiring.
rbw | 9:49 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008
"Now I have mentioned freedom to express your thoughts, but I caution you
that your thoughts and expressions must meet competition in the market place of
thought, and in that competition truth will emerge triumphant. Only error needs
to fear freedom of expression. Seek truth in all fields, and in that search you
will need at least three virtues; courage, zest, and modesty. The ancients put
that thought in the form of a prayer. They said, 'From the cowardice that
shrinks from new truth, from the laziness that is content with half truth, from
the arrogance that thinks it has all truth-O God of truth deliver
us'."
- Hugh B. Brown, Brigham Young University, March 29, 1958
- Hugh B. Brown, Brigham Young University, March 29, 1958
Interested Scholar | 11:37 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008
I have been a member of the Mormon church all of my life, and love to study its
history and beliefs...and I also enjoy studying other religions. I love to
understand the movements of people over time and why they believe certain ways,
and also all of the good that can be gleaned from all beliefs. I'm not
"shopping" for a new religion when I study other religions, but I
genuinely want to understand them.
A scholarly class on Mormonism would be excellent for people who would like to really study it from a neutral vantage point; that is, without pressure to convert just because they are showing an interest.
Let us grant to others what we would want for ourselves: the ability to discuss beliefs in a neutral forum without justifying ours and downgrading others.
And, I don't believe that we (as Mormons) have "arrived" as some have put it. There is no arrival for anyone. We are all on a journey of learning and experience. Arrival will not happen in this life.
A scholarly class on Mormonism would be excellent for people who would like to really study it from a neutral vantage point; that is, without pressure to convert just because they are showing an interest.
Let us grant to others what we would want for ourselves: the ability to discuss beliefs in a neutral forum without justifying ours and downgrading others.
And, I don't believe that we (as Mormons) have "arrived" as some have put it. There is no arrival for anyone. We are all on a journey of learning and experience. Arrival will not happen in this life.
Concerned | 12:45 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
I think this is interesting but I am concerned it would just open the church up
for critisism.
I think our history and orgins are facinating and at a point I loved to research it; however I came to a point in my research where my faith was shaken. I have since rebounded but I think there are some things better left alone.
I think our history and orgins are facinating and at a point I loved to research it; however I came to a point in my research where my faith was shaken. I have since rebounded but I think there are some things better left alone.
Jake | 2:58 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
You BET it will open the Church up for criticism. There is a LOT to
criticize!
Airing out the dirty history of the LDS Church would be the best thing that could possibly happen!
You cannot move beyond what you are afraid to confront. The abuses in the Church authority structure are partly a function of the tainted, dishonest history and the false claims made by many early leaders. Once this falsehood is exposed and dealt with, then whatever good is left over can be properly used to improve people's lives.
Lies can never truly set a people free.
Airing out the dirty history of the LDS Church would be the best thing that could possibly happen!
You cannot move beyond what you are afraid to confront. The abuses in the Church authority structure are partly a function of the tainted, dishonest history and the false claims made by many early leaders. Once this falsehood is exposed and dealt with, then whatever good is left over can be properly used to improve people's lives.
Lies can never truly set a people free.
Ronald A. Young | 3:58 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
With out the Faith the Study Of Mormonism is next to useless. Understanding is
given by Faith, line upon line precept upon precept. Now a general study for a
General Understanding might be good, as it is for any other subject. Sometimes
like Algebra you have to take it more then once in order to get it. To truly
understand Mormonism you have to experience the concept. Such as going to
meetings by Neighborhood, Not having a preacher who is talking every Sunday. Not
having a Plate or Bag Passed in front of you. Attending Gospel Principals Class
so forth and so on. It would have to be a course in History more then anything
else. You can Teach the Bible as History, The Old Testament Works well with
this, it may even give someone a greater understanding, or respect. However you
must not start and stop with The Book of Mormon, you must also encounter the
D&C and The Pearl Of Great Price. A work I found to both informative and
convincing. Just because someone smiles and says they understand you, does not
mean that they either believe it or are two steps from being the next convert.
awesomeron | 6:50 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
A Good Institute near any College is an essential for any LDS Student. We do not
call life the slings and Arrows of the World for No Good Reason. One of the
Problems with Religion Teachers on the College Level is that they want confound
and confuse the Various Faiths. Concepts that are for the most part very simple.
Jesus Christ Died for out Sins. Jesus Saves, Heals and Redeems. You reach
Salvation through a series of steps but it basically starts with having a
desire to repent and repair your life and continues with Baptism. That is where
the relationship between Mormons and other Christian Faith Groups ends. Mormons
go on to Lay on hands to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then if the Males
keep the faith they Receive The Priesthood. (As opposed to only a few holding
the Priesthood). As life goes on sometimes in a little over a Year the
Individual can go to the Temple and receive his/her Endowment, be married and
Sealed for Time and All Eternity. Then comes day to day life and growth. We CTR
and ETTE, Die,Return to Heavenly Father.1st Estate Kept.Is that hard to
Teach?
Teluride | 7:06 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
Disparaging comments are made by those who know nothing of "Mormons"
except what they are spoon fed by ignorant bigots.
I joined the LDS church in 1969 while in the U.S. Army. Sometimes the doctrines of the Church have given me pause so I studied further until arrived at the truth behind problems which seem to make others stumble.
I was not ignorant of other doctrines preached in other churches. In fact I tried to find the common Element unifying religious thought. The Element is unrecognized by most people of nearly every religion.
For all their bickering and fighting the bigots have proven nothing except that they are intolerant and ignorant. Bigots perpetuate war. Bigots make believe that everyone going to burn in hell who do not enlist in their own particular doctrines.
Here is a message for all: You make your own brand of hell by excluding others, by intolerance, by hate mongering, by your own ignorance, and finally by refusing recognizing that other people are like yourselves. Others are in pain, lonely, afraid, hungry, and cold just like you.
The only justification for this life is helping others. There is no other.
I joined the LDS church in 1969 while in the U.S. Army. Sometimes the doctrines of the Church have given me pause so I studied further until arrived at the truth behind problems which seem to make others stumble.
I was not ignorant of other doctrines preached in other churches. In fact I tried to find the common Element unifying religious thought. The Element is unrecognized by most people of nearly every religion.
For all their bickering and fighting the bigots have proven nothing except that they are intolerant and ignorant. Bigots perpetuate war. Bigots make believe that everyone going to burn in hell who do not enlist in their own particular doctrines.
Here is a message for all: You make your own brand of hell by excluding others, by intolerance, by hate mongering, by your own ignorance, and finally by refusing recognizing that other people are like yourselves. Others are in pain, lonely, afraid, hungry, and cold just like you.
The only justification for this life is helping others. There is no other.
To awesomeron | 7:20 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
You have both confused and scared me. No wonder the LDS church and members in
general have a hard time connecting to the real world. Good luck with that
explanation of the LDS faith but if that is the curriculum at Harvard, we will
be more of a mockery than we are now.
Thank you Teluride | 8:06 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
You explained so it so well and explained the LDS Church SOOO well:
Teluride 7:06
...."Here is a message for all: You make your own brand of hell by excluding others, by intolerance, by hate mongering, by your own ignorance, and finally by refusing recognizing that other people are like yourselves. Others are in pain, lonely, afraid, hungry, and cold just like you."
THIS IS THE FULL REPRESENTATION OF THE LDS CHURCH AND CULTURE.
Thanks for the input.
Teluride 7:06
...."Here is a message for all: You make your own brand of hell by excluding others, by intolerance, by hate mongering, by your own ignorance, and finally by refusing recognizing that other people are like yourselves. Others are in pain, lonely, afraid, hungry, and cold just like you."
THIS IS THE FULL REPRESENTATION OF THE LDS CHURCH AND CULTURE.
Thanks for the input.
awesomeron | 9:34 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
To: awesomeron with no name! What is hard about Jesus, Saves, Heals, and
Redeems. What is hard about Taking The Lessons, Getting Baptized and having
Hands Laid On To Receive The Holy Ghost, by Priesthood Holders with the proper
authority. What is hard about being Ordained to the Priesthood. Following the
rules, attending your meetings, Tithing, Keeping The Word Of Wisdom. Getting
Married and Sealed In The Temple and living a good life of good and faithful
service there after. Raising your Keiki to walk in Truth. CTR, and ETTE, dying
and going back to Heavenly Father with your 1st Estate Kept. Also accepting The
Joseph Smith Story to be True. Basic Mormonism 101. No more is needed. Not
saying you can't get more. Read, Watch Learn more. Go to Institute. Serve A
Stake Mission, Work In The Temple, Magnify your callings. Don't beat you
wife. Do your Home or Visiting Teaching. Read the Entire Standard Works then
start again. Read Jesus The Christ and other Books. Subscribe to your Church
Mags. Read and Share Them. Record Conference or get it on CD or the Church Web
Site. What is hard about that. No Re-lig-e-oso Debates on truth needed.
ROBERT | 9:47 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
To "IMHO" It is easy to say that someone has said outrageous and
blatantly false statements without any facts to back up what you are saying,
that's called slandering a person's character.
What specifically did Ed Decker say that was outrageous and blatantly false?
If you are not stating the facts, the Bible says, all liars will have their part in the lake of fire (Rev. 21:8).
Be truthful!!
What specifically did Ed Decker say that was outrageous and blatantly false?
If you are not stating the facts, the Bible says, all liars will have their part in the lake of fire (Rev. 21:8).
Be truthful!!
TO: re:Studying Mormonism | 10:10 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
"Relying on faith and the spirit, and using that as justification for
locking up potentially damaging historical evidence in the archives, is not
legitimate scholarship and the rest of the academic world considers it a
joke."
So what???? Do you think the LDS Church needs validation from the academic community? I don't care if they think were all morons and regard us as mis-informed, uneducated fools who've been deceived and brainwashed. They are free to point and scoff from their lofty towers and foundation-less buildings...
The reality is that if you don't have the Spirit or approach a discussion of the doctrines of the Church with a degree of faith, that discussion will go nowhere. Frankly, I put my full faith and trust in an omnipotent, all-knowing, all-loving God and not in the insignificant, puny, unreliable, self-serving 'intellect' of man.
But that's just me.
So what???? Do you think the LDS Church needs validation from the academic community? I don't care if they think were all morons and regard us as mis-informed, uneducated fools who've been deceived and brainwashed. They are free to point and scoff from their lofty towers and foundation-less buildings...
The reality is that if you don't have the Spirit or approach a discussion of the doctrines of the Church with a degree of faith, that discussion will go nowhere. Frankly, I put my full faith and trust in an omnipotent, all-knowing, all-loving God and not in the insignificant, puny, unreliable, self-serving 'intellect' of man.
But that's just me.
awesomeron | 10:22 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
Teluride: I will assume that you are a Vietnam Vet, like myself. I could not
join the Church in 1969, mostly because of The Restrictions on the Priesthood. I
also had Word Of Wisdom Problems. My former wife brought other issues to the
table that still smart 40 years later. Life goes on. I met many who sat on the
Ward Bench without the Priesthood and I am proud of them. Just not my cup of
Coco. I cried when the News came over the Radio that warm June Evening in 1978.
In 1988 with a good Sister at my side I joined. I read and studied everything I
could get my hands on. The Institute where I lived allowed me to attend Day
Classes. I Graduated. A Top Ten Mormon Moment. The one thing I have learned is I
have learned to keep it (The Gospel) simple. Tolerance is a biggie but that is
true in all faiths. We are "works in progress" Gordon B. Hinckley said
"bring with you all that is good and see if we can add unto it."
President Monson stresses Education. Education is the Master Key to Life.
To: Robert 9:47 | 11:45 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008
(continued)....
The claim that Mormon�s believe their blood literally turns into Jewish blood upon baptism is ridiculous, and he confuses some of the current LDS practices with other off-shoot churches. So on, and so on��
Decker has made money from grinding his axe, but please, don�t take my word for any of this�. Read, study and educate yourself.
IMHO
The claim that Mormon�s believe their blood literally turns into Jewish blood upon baptism is ridiculous, and he confuses some of the current LDS practices with other off-shoot churches. So on, and so on��
Decker has made money from grinding his axe, but please, don�t take my word for any of this�. Read, study and educate yourself.
IMHO
To: Robert 9:47 (Part 1) | 1:32 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008
(DN did not print all of my response to you, so it�s out of
order�)
I apologize, Robert, I guess I should have written a complete dissertation on Decker for you. Since you have challenged my statement, allow me to enlighten you. First of all, understand my point of view. I am a former Mormon who left over academic and historical issues. Spouting off biblical references has little effect here, but thank you, anyway.
Now, it is a fact that no educated historian or critic of Mormonism can take Decker seriously. Excommunicated apostates Jerald and Sandra Tanner have publicly denounced Decker as a credible source, and his claims are controversial among historians and theologians, even those not sympathetic to the Mormon Church. Decker, a former member, was excommunicated for adultery and spousal abuse. Subsequently, he went from the �frying pan to the fire� so to speak, and became �Born-Again.�
I apologize, Robert, I guess I should have written a complete dissertation on Decker for you. Since you have challenged my statement, allow me to enlighten you. First of all, understand my point of view. I am a former Mormon who left over academic and historical issues. Spouting off biblical references has little effect here, but thank you, anyway.
Now, it is a fact that no educated historian or critic of Mormonism can take Decker seriously. Excommunicated apostates Jerald and Sandra Tanner have publicly denounced Decker as a credible source, and his claims are controversial among historians and theologians, even those not sympathetic to the Mormon Church. Decker, a former member, was excommunicated for adultery and spousal abuse. Subsequently, he went from the �frying pan to the fire� so to speak, and became �Born-Again.�
Whaa? | 12:38 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008
"The study of religion in America is going away from the mainline
Protestant establishment, to try to reconstruct a religious tradition
that's much more variegated and filled with dissent, and Mormonism gets
caught up in that new range of interests,"
It's hard to think of an organization more filled with "dissent" than the Protestant establishment, but maybe that's just me...
It's hard to think of an organization more filled with "dissent" than the Protestant establishment, but maybe that's just me...
Mormons Maturing (Hopefully) | 3:12 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008
As an LDS lifer, I welcome all serious academic study of my faith. I believe
that basic LDS doctrines are second to none, and are closer to the Gospel taught
by Christ than any other source. The problem has been with the people in power,
from Joseph Smith on down. They were all human, with obvious shortcomings.
They were not perfect, and we much stop thinking they were. Because they lived
so recently, however, these shortcomings are easier to find in various written
records. Time has a way of whitewashing things. I am convinced that if Joseph
Smith and Moses switched places in history, then everything Joseph did would be
accepted as true and Moses would be the fraud, the charlatan, etc.
Born American | 3:47 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008
It is not stated here,and is not correct to say,that the LDS church is the
fastest growing,that honoriffic belongs to Islaam. And it doesn't mean all
that that much at the membership level of 'THE CHURCH' anyway,as those
of you acquainted with basic math should be able to figure out for yourselves.
EXAMPLE: If I start a church with only myself as a member,and convince two
people to join with me in a year,I've accomplished a 300% growth rate in
only a year- impressive,huh? The smaller the originating group,the more
impressive,as a percentage,any additional membership looks as a percentage.
Ho-hum. think of it this way- Former Presidente Vicente Fox of Mexico estimates
that there are at least 20,000,000 illegal Mexican immigrants in this
country,and the estimate is that there are almost 13,000,000 LDS folk
worldwide,so I wouldn't get too puffed up about 'THE CHURCH'
catching fire all over the place,especially given the status of many on the
membership roles who barely believe,hardly attend,and aren't even deemed
temple worthy.
As to teaching LDS history,I'm all for it,but don't expect it to be institutionalized proselytizing,there's as much there to harden people against 'THE CHURCH' as to bring them to it.
As to teaching LDS history,I'm all for it,but don't expect it to be institutionalized proselytizing,there's as much there to harden people against 'THE CHURCH' as to bring them to it.
Christianity | 3:57 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008
Christianity IS an academic subject. There are primary sources for historians
to gather evidence. They have done this will many many religious organizations.
Being put under the lens of science for the sake of history is the process in
which humans try to understand the world in which we live. If you are scared of
that, too bad. It will happen, if you faith is shaken perhaps it wasn't
there to begin with. If it is not (which will be the case for so many) then
great. Are Catholics leaving the church in droves after the history class on
the Inquisition? Are Muslims leaving in droves after the taking classes on
modern terrorism? Just as Mormons won't leave in droves after taking a
class on the State of Deseret and early Mormonism.
I agree with the poster above; Air the dirty laundry get it out of the way, and continue on. Because keeping your dirty laundry locked up just makes it stink more, and it gets mildew.
I agree with the poster above; Air the dirty laundry get it out of the way, and continue on. Because keeping your dirty laundry locked up just makes it stink more, and it gets mildew.
Fredd | 4:26 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008
I think it will be interesting to have an unbiased source of info on the
doctrine and tenets of the LDS faith. Now you have to have church sources,
which are biased, or anti mormon sources, which are biased. I think if they
study the scientific aspect of mormonism (geology, DNA, archeology, etc) and the
historical aspect it will truly be a test. If mormonism passes a true scholarly
test it will be legitimate. If not, well that will be something for the
faithful to ponder.
Traveler | 5:54 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008
We cannot get to the truth concerning the assassination of President Kennedy,
area 51, the Iraq war or who is responsible and should pay for the banking
crisis resulting from variable interest loans. I find it most telling that some
posting here think the �Mormon�
version of history is twisted. It is that kind of thinking that has kept true
scholarship on an isolated island concerning this subject.
True scholarship starts with the premise that there are no good guys or bad guys but historical points of view based on movements within the social structures of the unfolding history. There is no need for a witch hunt (predicting or expecting an outcome) in scholarly pursuits and no purpose in the prejudice and bigotry that fosters and demands such conclusions before really even getting started.
The Traveler
True scholarship starts with the premise that there are no good guys or bad guys but historical points of view based on movements within the social structures of the unfolding history. There is no need for a witch hunt (predicting or expecting an outcome) in scholarly pursuits and no purpose in the prejudice and bigotry that fosters and demands such conclusions before really even getting started.
The Traveler
ME | 6:11 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008
Mormon polytheistic �theology� simply
does not pass the smell test, much less critical historical analysis. The more
people who grew up under the burden of LDS indoctrination learn about what
actual Christianity is the better they are off. The truth sets people free. The
truth does not have to constantly alter holy books to make them more sensible
and palatable.
Re: ME | 8:32 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008
Evangelical bigotry is what does not "pass the smell test."
As far as "critical historical analysis [sic]" goes, 4th-century Neo-Platonistic creedal Christianity seems to be passing less scholarly "smell tests" these days.
I invite you to read up on it.
As far as "critical historical analysis [sic]" goes, 4th-century Neo-Platonistic creedal Christianity seems to be passing less scholarly "smell tests" these days.
I invite you to read up on it.
Kent | 9:49 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008
Elder Holland is NOT a Catholic in good standing, and yet he took the liberty of
teaching all about the Trinitarian doctrine in General Conference.
Indeed, Mormon missionaries more than 60,000 strong go around teaching about [apostatized] Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism, and every other religion that is "an abomination" according to the LDS doctrine.
So it strikes me as hypocritical for the LDS Church or its members to expect that an instructor at Harvard must be LDS and "in good standing" in order to teach a course on Mormonism.
Indeed, Mormon missionaries more than 60,000 strong go around teaching about [apostatized] Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism, and every other religion that is "an abomination" according to the LDS doctrine.
So it strikes me as hypocritical for the LDS Church or its members to expect that an instructor at Harvard must be LDS and "in good standing" in order to teach a course on Mormonism.
Jay | 9:05 a.m. Feb. 26, 2008
Have some experience with Harvard, not particularly positive.
I'm thinking this is a token effort on their part. Not looking forward to what might come.
I'm thinking this is a token effort on their part. Not looking forward to what might come.
Re: Not Enough Room At the Y? | 9:47 a.m. Feb. 26, 2008
I'm with you on not knocking on the door of the Y. I think the Y is a
great institution. I never had a desire to go there. I was firm in my
testimony and didn't feel the need to go to a college where everyone thinks
the same way I do, believes the same things I do and even looks the same way I
do.
Go Bucks!
Go Bucks!
geewhiz | 12:46 p.m. Feb. 26, 2008
In my experience, I've found no one more hypocritical than Mormon
intellectuals, especially intellectual apologists for the role of women in
Mormon church and culture. Accept that women are second-class souls (ah, the
joys of being servile!) on faith if you want, but don't try to prove that
it makes any intellectual sense whatsoever. The only way to accomplish that feat
is to base the argument on internal logic, i.e., accept theological tenets a
priori. Although this may be what a person of faith can and should do (i.e.,
theology = truth = fact), it's not, by definition, an intellectual
enterprise. Nothing is more worthy of disdain than
"intellectualizing" belief systems that can't withstand
assumption-testing. As for the glories of Harvard, save your breath. The
Harvard imprimatur just makes you THINK you've arrived. I've never
seen a more self-congratulatory institution, so Harvard combined with
self-congratulatory intellectual Mormons ... well, maybe that's a marriage
made in heaven ... oops, I mean Heaven.
To Robert | 9:52 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008
You couldn't read a statistic if you tried, could you?
There are religions in the world that are growing, not becoming smaller. The statistic has absolutely nothing to do with SIZE. Get real.
Jehovah Witnesses are growing at the fastest rate but at roughly 1 million are small in comparison with Catholicism. Take a course in reading comprehension.
There are religions in the world that are growing, not becoming smaller. The statistic has absolutely nothing to do with SIZE. Get real.
Jehovah Witnesses are growing at the fastest rate but at roughly 1 million are small in comparison with Catholicism. Take a course in reading comprehension.
Alex | 10:18 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008
I know this is going to sound diplomatic, but I don't think the Harvard
studies will be particularly good or bad for the church. It depends on what
people bring to the table. It is publicity, and publicity cuts both ways.
People who have an axe to grind against the church will still have an axe to
grind. On the other hand, study of the church (regardless of where) brings
inquiry, and where there is inquiry, there will be opportunities to share the
message we have. While I don't expect the Harvard program to do what the
church has a mandate to do. The only thing I can reasonably hope for is that
they will be as reasonably fair to the LDS faith as they are to others. No
more, no less. We will probably get a good share of both.
Roger | 3:39 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
I wonder how they will handle the study of Joseph Smith and Bringham Young being
set aside and ordained to be kings here on earth, does that mean they will rule
over those of us who are non-mormon or jack mormons. Will we have to live the
fullness of the mormon doctrine.
ROBERT | 8:52 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Thanks "IMHO" I am also a former Mormon and have heard people say that
their blood was turned to Jewish blood when baptized into the church but I have
never ran across a prophet's sayings or doctrine that varifies that
statement.
As far as Decker saying he was born-again that could very well be the case.
Jesus spoke of the neccesity to be born-again to enter the kingdom of God in John 3:3-8. He said you must be born of the flesh and the Spirit. Water baptism is not what Jesus meant when He said to be born of the water. We were all born of the water in our mother's womb in a sack of water. Then Jesus said we must be born-again by the Spirit (Holy Ghost). Jesus goes on to tell us how to be born-again by the Spirit through faith in the Son of God, by believing in Jesus (John 3:14:18)
Born-again means to be spiritually born through faith in Jesus not through water baptism.
Thanks IMHO
As far as Decker saying he was born-again that could very well be the case.
Jesus spoke of the neccesity to be born-again to enter the kingdom of God in John 3:3-8. He said you must be born of the flesh and the Spirit. Water baptism is not what Jesus meant when He said to be born of the water. We were all born of the water in our mother's womb in a sack of water. Then Jesus said we must be born-again by the Spirit (Holy Ghost). Jesus goes on to tell us how to be born-again by the Spirit through faith in the Son of God, by believing in Jesus (John 3:14:18)
Born-again means to be spiritually born through faith in Jesus not through water baptism.
Thanks IMHO
Phil | 9:26 a.m. March 2, 2008
Robert is correct about being born again. And this concept was not unique to
Christians or followers of Jesus. The concept of being born again, or a
"second birth", was understood among philosophers of every kind for
centuries prior to Jesus.
- Page:
- < Previous
- 1
- 2
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- High school swimming rankings 1:28 a.m.
- High school girls basketball rankings 1:19 a.m.
- High school boys basketball rankings 1:00 a.m.
- High school sports: Preps of the week 12:49 a.m.
- Y. volleyball beats UVU 12:46 a.m.
- Sports on the air 12:43 a.m.
- Utah Jazz: Game at a glance 12:40 a.m.
- Williams' late jumper tops Spurs 12:34 a.m.
- Revive full food tax? 12:19 a.m.
- Classmates salute their superhero 12:19 a.m.
- Cougars going back to Vegas
- Utah/BYU rivalry can be more civil
- TCU to play Boise in Fiesta Bowl
- Y. profs: Beck not all-knowing
- Witness: Mitchell stalked victims
- Bring the true spirit of Christmas
- Utes excited to go to San Diego
- BYU professor remembered
- Winter weather is here to stay
- Answers for the BCS
- Y. profs: Beck not all-knowing
261 - TCU to play Boise in Fiesta Bowl203
- Letters: Global warming a lie156
- Cougars going back to Vegas147
- Utah/BYU rivalry can be more civil134
- George lost in rivalry hatefest119
- Ed Smart 'appalled' at testimony100
- Harpring's NBA career is over96
- Utahns want health care reform bills78
- Utes excited to go to San Diego75
Latest comments
When Boozer was shooting the free throws, why Sloan didn't substitute Mathew...
actions, I will be forced to be accountable for them. I refuse. I am an...
What's with the Utah fans flashing the double L sign?
@mark: So Sam da Ham... you were just making it up?" I'm a climate...
"I have no idea why BYU fans are talking smack about bowl opponents. Even if...
You say to "quit whining and play somebody." Isn't that what everyone is...
Reading these comments, I start wondering-- Whatever happened to faith? Why...
All those numbers when all you reall need to know is that BYU has beat Utah...
All thos numbers when all you reall need to know is that BYU has beat Utah...
So Sam da Ham, when you said this: "Not so. Al Gore is poised to make...
Advertisements
All too often in their writings, LDS critics use loaded words like "cult" "brain wash" "evil" "pagan" and "sinister." Not only that, many critical writings are presented in a very condescending and insulting manner.
If people want to sincerley convince me and other Latter-day Saints that our religion is false, they won't succeed by yelling insults at us.
I would also be careful about relying too much on the Internet. I could point out many websites which "prove" the Holocaust never happened, that the U.S. government orchestrated 9/11 and Oklahoma City, and that Bill Gates is planning to buy the Catholic Church. Just because it's on the web, doesn't mean it's 100% accurate.