As a coach of a pretty successful program who does it with kids that only live
in the boundaries, I take pride as does our school with the accomplishment. We
are one of only two schools who has closed boundaries where you have to live to
play. (enforced by our district) Sure I get a kid that moves in once in a while
for, but it's like one kid out of my entire squad, and their family picked up
and moved in. If it went open I don't think I would coach anymore. The coaches
that do it for the kids and the love of the game would get out. What would be
the fun in having supper teams you know that will win it every year. When we win
championships doing it with our own kids it's the best because we did it through
training and hard work.
exactly,as where is the reward for good behavior if a known athlete is allowed
to misbehave and is rewarded..for felonous behavior. I pulled my kid so quick as
the administration condoned it , then tried to insult the intelligence of the
rest of the community. The UHSAA should have been contacted immediatly ...but no
the so called righteous let this and other actions slip by..all the while the
students and athletes knew the score and time of day in each and every
incidence. What a plastic world and message sent to both parents and
It use to be that if a kid transfered, they would have to sit out year. Now it's
like you can transfer one day and be elgible the next.Their is a kid at
Davis that played baseball at Viewmont High School and was dismissed from the
team for being a problem. Next thing you know he and his dad move into the Davis
bounderies and he is elgible. It is sad that a kid that causes those kind've
problems on his or her team is rewarded with elgibility at a new school. The kid
at Lone Peak is another example.
The only difference is ...... I have a brain.You should let ME tell
you about the problems of a principal that hates sports and could care less who
coaches. A principal that sees sports as a bother and would prefer terrible
teams because then less people will go to the game and it means less work for
her/him.Kids can fund raise to ANYthing ANYwhere. How many of us
always by tickets to a Scout Jamboree that we have ZERO intention of going to?
Or overpay for Cookies because they're for the Girls Scouts?AS FAR
AS "coach feels sorry for the transfer kid" .... either the coach is an idiot or
your kid lost his position to someone out of area. Hmmm, which one
would YOU guess?
you should let me list all the problems with kids transfering. you should also
include the stuff i send in. Those kids that transfer cant do fund raising
because there neighbors dont want to support a team across town. The local kid
goes to everyone in his neighborhood to ask for support. Then his money and
efforts are used to support the kid who runs from the challenges at his own
school. The coach feels sorry for the transfer kid and gives him opportunitys
before the local kid. The rule needs to be that the students stay at there local
school. If the coaches are no good then the parents should go to the
administration and register a complaint. There are a lot of good people out
there willing to work with young people.Let people coach that are not
teachers. THERE SHOULD BE NO TRANSFERING, (PERIOD)AND THEY SHOULD ALSO MAKE ALL
THE KIDS THAT HAVE DONE SO MOVE BACK!
the coach's that are worried about kids leaving their program must be doing
something wrong in that program. i don't think most kids would leave their area
and the neighbors they have grown up with. i would love to see kids go where
they want, for athletics or anything else for that matter. anytime someone wants
to better themselves, they should be able to. this is america. i am a coach that
most wouldn't want to play for but that is fine with me. being known as a good
coach comes from playing the hand that is dealt, not going after a kid to come
to my school. the bottom line with me is being able to look in the mirror at
night. let's be honest here, recruiting and kids moving has been going on for
awhile in utah anyway. letting kids go where they want would make schools and
coach's get better and improve so kids wouldn't leave. anyone that wants to
leave my program can go. teamwork and getting on the same page is more important
Unfortunately this is a HUGE problem as coaches recruit talented players and
create the Skyline's of the past. the best solution is for our taxpayer dollars
to STOP funding athletics altogether and model american athletics after the
Europeans and have club teams rather than school district sponsored teams.
Parents should be able to choose what school is best for their child without any
"sports" consequence. This would require High School coaches to become more
involved in their communities and to develop positive relationships with
parents. Coaches would need to recruit the athletes in their boundry. Great
coaches, like Quincy Lewis do this. The no transfer rule accually supports
strong sports programs. At Lone Peak there were at least 5-7 boys basketball
players cut from the team that could start at other high schools. If allowed to
transfer these athletes would be competing against LP. (Like the player who left
LP his senior year and played for PG two yrs ago.) If participation and an even
playing field is the goal of the UHSAA, why not let them transfer and
The only thing unfair is school sthat are labelled "open enrollment." Either
make them all open enrollment or make them all closed enrollment. If a parent
wants their kid to go to a certain school they can move into those boudaries.
If you look at schools with open enrollment they have on average an unfair
advantage-- look at Skyline and Timpview for starters. If the
school has problems with enrollment at these schools change the boundaries but
make the process fair for participation.
I have served on the UHSAA Executive Committee for the past 10+ years and I've
also been part of numerous hearings of which 95% have been denied. The UHSAA
has a FOUR person staff! The Board of Trustees is made up of your elected
school board members (one from each region) and the Executive Committee is made
up of one principal from each region. The schools run the UHSAA. They do not
have the staff or funds to investigate each complaint, we rely on principals to
investigate and report abuses. It's sad that these comments are based on lack
of information. Mr. Van Wagner has been counsel for the UHSAA for 25+ years and
continues to do all he can to support the policies of the association. I doubt
this bill has any chance of passing but it is amazing that some legislators
think they can govern high school sports. I to would be happy to talk to anyone
about the perceptions of the association. As Mr. Van Wagner offered, give your
number to Amy Donaldson and I'll call. I support high school sports and will
continue to do so.
legislature butt out of things? This is not a problem for the legislature to be
working on. How about healthcare, crime, gangs, mortgage and bankruptcy
problems. Instead of focusing on things that matter they worry about a high
school athlete not being able to play where he wants? Rediculous. The circus is
always in town, and they leave nothing more important than droppings.
1A couldn't make it in the bigger pond ..we know, we know!
This is a very enlightening forum. Clearly Stephenson and Buttars (together
with their accomplices) are still upset over the voucher defeat that took money
from their personal vaults. Their attack on public education is simply thinly
veiled revenge - including their pending legislation to decrease UEA funding.
Since when did retribution and mean spiritedness become the guiding principles
of our legislators? Where are a few good people when so desperately needed?
To Integrity: Your comments regarding Howard Stephenson simply scratch the
surface of a rather large iceberg. The evil axis of Stephenson, Buttars, Gayle
Ruzicka, Paul Mero and LaVar Christensen effectively controls the agenda of the
legislature. I have never been treated with such outright intimidation and
condescension as these people demonstrate. They are truly an example of
unrighteous dominion and the citizens of Utah give them a free pass. It is
discouraging to attempt to serve the public in this poisoned environment; and is
the primary reason I voluntarily left after one term. You might also be
interested to know that Senator Stephenson is a registered lobbyist for the Utah
Taxpayers Association and is in the fortunate position to "give" himself free
tickets to Jazz games. Nobody takes advantage of more freebies that Senator
Stephenson, and I guarantee he feels like he is bulletproof.
When is the legislature going to wake up and grow up. You guys need to work on
fixing your biased agenda. Anything that is good for you is good for the state,
right? Not so! The fairest thing you people on the hill could do is realize
that your job is not to rule over everything and cause change to benefit you or
your special interest friends. And by the way, Who is dumb enough to listen to
anything that Howard Stevenson says. He has worked for years to destroy public
education and now he is working on high school activities. The best thing we
could do for schools and school activities is get rid of every legislator and
replace them with honest people who don't double-speak or work to line their own
pockets or the pockets of their friends.
Obviously, we have a very emotional issue here. The problem with the current
system is that it is not open enrollment for athletes. It should be play where
you live or true open enrollment. As one poster said, all coaches are not
operating above board. This is one reason why kids and parents should have more
power as this legislator is suggesting.
The legislator that votes for this is a fool. When are these goofballs going to
be sent away? DON'T VOTE FOR ANY INCUMBENTS!!!
I think you missed the point of the Havili example. The article wasn't saying
that Cottonwood has a Havili at every position. It was saying "what if they
did?" Similar to what the guy from Florida was saying, what if there was one
school in each region or district that was the "all star" team for that area -
who would want to play them?Personally, while I don't think the UHSAA gets
it right every time, I do think there has to be an oversight group like UHSAA,
or we will end up with the high school coaches recruiting at the junior highs,
and then the junior highs will start recruiting at the elementaries.I'd
personally favor a "play where you live" option, so that if you wanted to play
for "x" school, you have to move to that community. But even still, that could
cause problems such as the issue with USC High (buying a house or promising free
tuition for the kids who go there).
Now I get to take my son out of this dump! You stiff necked losers of coaches
...forget the rah-rah bs. so llllllllooooongggggggg! It's on to some real
opportunities. can't wait to see the town in my rear view mirror!
I had to choice to go to Murray or Alta because of sports. I decided Murray
because I grew up there, and that is where ALL my friends were. In general most
athletes grow up around one high school and learn to love it, and they don't
want to leave no matter how bad their teams are. At least 5 of my team mates I
have know since 3rd grade because we all grew up in Murray, and we had great
success this year. Lots of people just have pride of where they come from. I
mean come one, look at Murray football....
No need for this to pass--it already exists. Look at Timpview football this
year, they had 22 out of area transfers on their team.
Interesting that Senator Stephenson conveniently forgot to disclose his
financial interest in Draper's so called American Leadership Academy. One of
the reasons he was such a voucher supporter.
This bill would provide HS sports the same pattern as the NCAA. Pretty soon, HS
booster clubs and high rolling parents would be offering all kinds of incentives
to attract star athletes to transfer to a certain school. Parents, coaches, and
administrators will stop at nothing to gain the advantage. If you open this
door, don't be shocked by who comes strolling through.
Is the UHSAA perfect, No. But if you think they aren't effective you don't
understand the process. If an athlete wants to transfer they must get their
current principle or coach to sign a document allowing them to participate in
athletics at their new school. If the current school does not sign they have to
sit out one year before they can participate. A lot of times the school will
sign off and let the kid participate. The athlete can appeal to the UHSAA if
they don't get approval. I can tell you that the vast majority of appeals are
denied. The ones that aren't, like the kid from LP who transfered to AF, are
because the UHSAA realized base on current law that they would lose argument in
court. The UHSAA has to try and enforce the rules within the law, fair or not
fair. And no, I do not work for the UHSAA. By the way the UHSAA is run by a
board consisting of school principals voted on by all participating schools.
Play where you live. Enough said.
Utah is already a very difficult place to be a High School coach. A high profile
former pro athlete who grew up out of state but has raised his family here
recently told me parents in Utah are the most difficult to deal with in the
country. If you don't believe me try coaching or referring. This bill would make
it unbearable. Imagine being a coach who put a lot of time and effort developing
a kid for your program only to have him transfer for greener pastures. I've
talked to a lot of good coaches that would get out of coaching if this bill
passes. Coaches get paid a ridiculously low amount for the time and effort
Whoever has posted as To:UHSAA, I would be happy to respond to you. Please give
your real name and telephone number to Amy and I will call you. Otherwise, I
won't waste time responding to someone unwilling to stand behind unsupportable
Of course the legislators want to end "horror stories" like the ones at ALA.
Check into who operates these "public schools"! Once again it's our crooked
legislature going with what their constituents want. NOT!!! If you want to
play for another school that bad, and it's the difference in a scholarship or
not, then MOVE INTO THAT SCHOOL'S BOUNDARIES!!! Wake up Senator Stephenson!!
Come on Utah, please lets vote these clowns out next time.
Yes, we can learn from Wasatch, Highland, Olympus, West, Cottonwood, Skyline,
etc. They all know about "special" transfers. Look at their football and
basketball rosters. If you looked at the addresses of their athletes, it would
read like a Salt Lake Valley phone book or zip code directory.
Kids should be able to transfer for athletics if they are allowed to do so for
drama, art, music, and AP classes.Athletics is a talent like art,
drama, music that allows students to grow and achieve academic success that they
otherwise wouldn't be able to. It opens up doors for scholarships and
acceptance to universities that would otherwise be closed.Might as
well let athletes choose the best school that would give them the best
opportunity of developing and being seen. And for those that state that where
you go to school doesn't matter, yes, if you are Terrelle Pryor you will be seen
wherever, but going to a top program does increase the likelihood of being
noticed for a substantial number of kids that aren't prodigies.
Do you think we don't know that? Transfers for athletic reasons are rampant.
You are one of many who learned how to manipulate the system, your parents,
coaches, administrators, the UHSAA . . . Congratulations! Hope this works for
your in the real world!
Oh great! Now we've got a legislator who wants to put H.S. athletic sports up to
the highest bidders and allow H.S. Coaches to go out and recruit for state
Championships. Please tell me that this fruitcake is from California or
Texas....he can't possibly be home grown. Mr. Madsen, you must certainly
have a hard time occupying your time out there on the West Desert. Are you sure
those are Eagles out there or are they Fu Birds? .....I'll just say this when
this Fu bird idea of yours deficates all over you, be prepared to grin and wear
Kids have been moving for sports for years!! You don't need to pass any bill
just ask Wasatch wrestling hoow it's done.....it's that easy!!
haha i transfered for athletics and got away with it not even trying to hide it.
Its not hard and i could name you 20+ other guys i know that have done it. Get a
This year's top college football recruit, Terrell Pryor, is coming out of a
relatively small (though talented) high school program. And several NFL draft
boards predict Leodis McKlevin from Troy State going in the top ten. It's not
where you play, it's how you play. This bill, like so many others, is about
parents feeling overly entitled to push their kids into what they perceive as
their elitist due.
People who want to get rid of extra-curricular activities were not cool or
popular in high school...Extra-curricular activities are what keep
half the kids going to school...
You are so right on!! Can I nomiate you for the UHSAA's board?
I could not agree more with "Coach" - if this were to go through it would be the
death of high school sports. Isn't the thing that makes sports so compelling the
unknown - the possibility that anyone can beat anyone on any given day? That's
when sports are interesting. If this bill went through that's out the window and
we'd be left with blowouts every game. Now, wouldn't that be fun?
Look, the big schools always do well anyway. If a kid can't be loyal to his
neighborhood school, then let him be a sellout. So Brighton or Alta or Skyline
might win ten straight state titles. Big whoop. There are starving kids in
I laughed myself sick when I read this article. Mark Van Wagoner, who are you
kidding? I really do hope you read these posts and you can respond. How many
special transfers has the UHSAA denied in the last five years? How many
"special" transfer sessions have been held? The UHSAA IS THE PROBLEM! I
challenge anyone who is reading this post to go and look at the UHSAA's website.
The rules are there in black and white. No student can transfer for athletic
reasons and coaches cannot recruit. And yet, student athletes are allowed to
transfer (with permission from the UHSAA) for "social" reasons, "academic"
reasons, etc. Here's what we heard in our school. "This 6'10" basketball
player is transferring for "academic" reasons (so he can take AP calculus -
RIGHT!) or (now, this is a good one) this student athlete got a special UHSAA
transfer because there is no one from her ethnic group that will ask her to the
prom (RIGHT!!). I have wondered over the years if the UHSAA is dumb or just
extremely frightened of litigation. I've come to the conclusion - the are
Ok fine. Don't let a kid transfer for athletics, but don't let him transfer for
band, or choir, or anything else either. It makes me mad when I see a student
from another school in our school musical... but other students are denied that
You only need one rule. Go to school where you live. Case closed. Not just for
sports, for everything. If you don't think you school is good enough, make it
better. You live there, so something is good enough or you should move. But
where ever you live when the first sport starts for the next year is the only
school you can play at that year. Even if you move during the year you can not
play at another school, or the school you moved away from. High School sports
should be about the community, not just the sport. All of you who don't like
this idea to bad, make you school better. And get over it.
High school fan. I agree, we need to eleminate high school sports and spend the
money on the classrooms. Students don't need extra curricular activities. If
the kids want to play a sport they can play city leagues. What would we
Cheating and recruiting already happen with rules in place. The rules keep the
honest people honest.Many state house reps are board members and involved
with charter schools. They profit from the school and want to build sports teams
by recruiting. I have never seen so many cousins living with other cousins in my
life. I think if a kid has attended a school before a new school is built that
they should be able to choose which school they stay at.
Who are we kidding? Student athletes play where they want to NOW!!!! Look at
the rosters of all the schools in Salt Lake City. After a student athlete and
their parents decide where they want to play, they simply go before the UHSAA in
a "special" transfer hearing, and their request is granted. The UHSAA does not
have the courage or the attorney to enforce their own rules. The rules are
there . . . no transfers for athletic reasons and no recruiting. Does the UHSAA
enforce their own rules? NO!!! These sessions are behind closed doors, and
they do not deny "special" transfers, even if the reasons for the transfer are
totally transparent. It is wrong and will ruin Utah high school sports, but it
happens now. The current, un-written rule is this PLAY WHEREVER YOU WANT and
everyone who has been around high sports KNOWS IT!!
I knew this was coming. If allowed to pass, this bill will be the death of high
school athletics. Superpower schools winning the same championship every year is
absolutely ridiculous. Consider colleges with no scholarship limitations or pro
teams with no draft. The legislature seems to be focused on gaining total
authority over all aspects of our lives even athletics. SAD sooo SAD.
Yes, students should be able to transfer to other schools, even for athletics
reasons. Parents (and students) who pay taxes deserve to attend the school of
their choice, so long as they can transport themselves to and from the school.
Although in my opinion, I think students would be better served if we were to
get rid of extra-curricular activities entirely and channel more of our
resources into academic achievement and core education such as science, English,
math, and literacy. Leave extra-curricular activities to the private market.
They should not even be allowed to have sports if you dont think it is a blind
for all star teams you are crazy.let them play each other then i dont have a
problem with it.and the same go's for privet schools
Swarley,You would eventually have coaches going below high school to
scout out middle school kids and influence them to come where the best
opportunities await them. We would hold a state-wide letter-of-intent day each
year where top middle school football/basketball players commit to the high
school of their choice. Coaches could be promoted or fired based on their
ability or inability to recruit the best of the 11-13 year old crowd. We could
rank the annual recruiting class of each high school.What imbecile
came up with this idea?
We need to wake up and start to think about our children. Why would we want to
teach them that if they don't get to play as much as they want then just
transfer somewhere else. Nice thing to teach them. In a few years when their
boss doesn't like their work then just move on to another job instead of improve
yourself and make yourself better. It is time that we teach our kids commitment
and fair play. Someone needs to take control of High School athletics (not the
legislature). UHSAA needs to step up and do its job. If they even inforced the
current rules that would be a start. If a kid says they want to go to a certian
High School and starts there as a freshman then fine but if they decide they
want to transfer it should only be allowed if their family is moving to a new
school boundry. Or maybe we could say athletic transfers are allowed but they
must wait one year to play any athletics. Bottom line is that we need to teach
our children to keep their commitments it will do wonders for them in more than
first their are to many classacations cal only has 4 lets go back to 4
classafactions and have a true state champ.as for trancfers it semms to depend
who you are and who big of school you go to the smaller schools seams to not
matter at all big schools seams to be a big deal class up uhsaa and make a stand
on this.you guys have created this monster
How about this? Let's drop high school athletics once and for all. If a kid
wants to play sports, have him do it in intramurals (less involved) or club
sports (parents pay). Use high school fields for hosting the club games in their
area. Use the schools themselves for teaching Academics, Fine Arts, etc. High
school athletics are broken and they need to be revamped.
ANYTHING which the likes of Howard Stephenson, Paul Mero, Chris Buttars or the
Eagle Forum supports is immediately suspect--They always have some kind of
hidden agenda. Through this BABY out!
This is the stupidest idea that has ever been thought up!! Really!!! This would
destroy High school sports
Play where you live. That should be the rule. If you want to transfer for
academic reasons then I applaud you; but you should still have to play where you
To High School Fan - so tell me, do you want our Legislators running high school
Remember UCLA without scholarship limitations? This bill would create a very
few "superpowers" in each sport and kill the others.
What a joke this is really REDICULOUS!!!
Interesting. I live in Brevard County, Florida. Years ago they went to open
enrollment and one high school actively recruited the top football players.
Within three years they had a USA Today top 25 team. Easy to do with a county
wide all star team. The school embarked on an expensive travel program to play
similar teams and left the other schools in the District behind. Other schools
were penalized by losing their best players. It benefited a few (who got
scholarships) but hurt the entire concept of what high school sports is about,
namely a part of the overall high school experience. The District here changed
the policy to the benefit of the entire District.
90% of my peers want play where you live, play in your schools boundaries. end
this non-sense of academic transfers when is it just paper work to justify an
who is this guy that thinks c-wood has a stanley havili at every position?
timpview smoked them and everyone else and they will the next 4 years. However,
c-wood does have some big boys. who would want to play for jon doe who never
played football-just teaches at the school? so what if a rich guy gets nice
equipment for players-h.s. football is getting bigger and better every year-well
at least 5A- 4A has C-wood and timpview
I'm a little surprised something so radical is even being talked about. I guess
it's time for the UHSAA to wake up and realize that if they don't manage this
transfer issue more successfully, then the powers that be will do something
about it. There is no way I could be in favor for a midseason transfer, but the
rest of this bill is at least interesting.
This would make a bad problem much worse. It would destroy high school
athletics. Any parity that exists now would be gone. You would have elite high
school athletic programs where the same team(s) winning every single year.
The good players would then transfer to those schools leaving the majority of
high schools (90% of them) high and dry. Like it or not sports is a
huge part of the high school experience. I have heard many parents trasfer to
give their kids a better "educational" experience, which is a lie 90% of the
time. This policy would destroy the sense of community and "team" because you
would never know when your players were going to transfer. They could transfer
for any reason. It would be like having an athlete leave early for the draft.
What is wrong with a kid committing to a group of his friends to stay. If he
does not like the coach, or the situation, deal with it and try to make things
better yourself. In today's atmosphere rather than working through your
problems, we are teaching kids to run away from their problems by allowing them
Kids should not be allowed to transfer for athletic reasons. Many coaches are
already shady characters and I can't imagine them penetrating the different High
School Systems to "recruit" star players to their school. Next you'll hear
about booster scandals and gifts given to Freshmen to get them to transfer. If
you are good enough to get a scholarship it doesn't matter where you play. You
can score 35 points a game for a team that's not that good, or hit a bunch of
homeruns and still get scholarships.
Sounds like it is becoming a bigger circus out there, what a sad day.
So, tell me......What would we really lose if the UHSAA didn't exist?They're obstructionist and punitive. They add nothing to the process other
than negativity. Let's try this for a few years without them.