Deseret News | Jehovah's Witnesses are fastest-growing U.S. faith; LDS are fourth-largest U.S. faith

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Jehovah's Witnesses are fastest-growing U.S. faith; LDS are fourth-largest U.S. faith

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Mohan | 1:26 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

I am always saddened when I hear the JW's were on my street and I was not home to talk to them. It doesn't threaten me at all. Different beliefs strengthen my own. I also hope to assist them with a few thoughtful insights of my own. Perhaps next time.

As for membership numbers, I wouldn't expect any Church to delete numbers from their membership simply for non-attendance. I would expect the Mormons would rule the Christian world if percentage of members who actively attended meetings each week was the determining factor. Such a number would be too difficult to track, however, especially since Mormons are assigned a congregation to attend based upon their physical address while most other religions are able to choose a congregation for a particular leader or friend. 72% of LDS in my neighborhood attend actively. The Bishop still cares for and about those not currently attending, even more actively than those who do attend. Those who start to attend again are not rebaptized unless they had previously been deleted as members.

Shane | 1:40 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

The real doctrinal difference between Jehovah's Witnesses is that JWs believe that God ("the Father) is Jehovah, whereas Mormons believe that Jesus ("the Son") is Jehovah.

Interestingly, Joseph Smith was a bit confused between the two, sometimes calling "the Father" Jehovah, and other times calling Jesus Jehovah. Only many years later did Talmage, Roberts, and others of the "correlation committee" straighten out the Mormon theology so that it is what it is today.

Still, many LDS don't even know that their Church's official doctrine is that Jesus is Jehovah!

And JWs have a great time showing out of the original languages that Jehovah cannot possibly be Jesus. Ask them. They would be happy to tell you all about it.

The Real Truth Re: Humanitarian | 1:47 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Folks, the LDS church does not fork any money out of it's own pockets when it comes to humanitarian, education fund, or any other charities. These monies comes directly from the members themselves, separate and totally non-connected to the funds which the church uses for their own purposes.

Therefore, it is not acceptable and not allowed for one to use your tithing money for anything but tithing, and other donations have to come out of your pocket as your own extra donations.

So, the church education funds, and other donations are directly from the members, not the corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

That's why the tithing slip has all these categories, and you can't pay your tithing to other categories, it has to be extra cash coming from the members.

If you do, then your tithing does not count, and you still are considered you haven't tithed.

But when it comes to monies from the actual tithing, the church does not share that with anybody else, it stays put where it belonged, which is within the church.

The church itself is not as generous as it appears.

Comments continue below

Mike R. | 1:52 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

So let me get this straight. Some of you are having problems with your testimony because Joseph Smith shot someone at Carthage with the smuggled in pepperbox gun? By the way, that gun misfired three times. SO WHAT! Joseph was more than justified in trying to defend himself and the others with him. So why is that a big suprise? If one of them died as a result of getting shot by Joseph, then he got what he deserved and is serving time in the infernal reaches.

Was Joseph dead when he lept out of the window? Most likely not. But he was shortly therafter when the mod propped him up against the well and shot him several more times.

By the way, I like the JWbs. I let them in and talk religion with them. They now avoid my house.

Soloman | 1:56 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

The actual claimed membership (6.5 million) of Jehovah's Witnesses is tallied by their own leadership and subject to exaggeration.The Scientologist claim millions too and probably have only 50,000 worldwide.

Drive by many of the Kingdom Halls during services and observe the number of decreased cars in the parking lot this is telling.

I can tell you this...99% of JW's active in 1980 expected "this system" to be over and done with long before this year of 2007 as promised by the Watchtower.

The organization has defaulted and should have folded up and disbanded a long time ago.

Tyndale | 2:16 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

That is funny about preying on the poor when they bring up the income level and improve their lives in so many ways. Kind of reminds you of those who accepted Jesus, doesn't it? But there are others. Great educators, rocket scientists, respected businessmen, theologians, 747 airline pilots, and that's just the Twelve. Then there are the rest of us who fall somewhere in between.

Thomas | 2:17 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

To be perfectly honest, I've never felt much affection for the Witnesses after a conversation I had with a female member of that sect.
We used to work together. One day, just off the wall, she launched into a tirade against soldiers who she said were going to hell because they'd had to kill in combat. My own father is a veteran of the Second World War. I am a Gulf War veteran.
I chastised her, saying that while those of her faith refused to serve in the armed forces or fight, others were fighting and dying so that the Witnesses could worship and enjoy the freedoms of this country. I reminded her that if everyone had her attitude, we'd be flying the NAZI flag outside on the flagpole.
I was very offended by her remarks.
When I was an LDS missionary, we met with some of the Witnesses. They were usually argumentative and defensive, determined to prove they were right and we were wrong. For that, I did not like meet with them.

False Numbers Fuel Complacency | 2:38 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

I believe that for years it has been a source of pride for the Church to announce its overall membership and growth rates. But I also believe it has gone a long way toward fueling member complacency. There is the innacurate thought that "all is well - we have a 60,000 missionary force helping the stone continue to role throughout the world". But the reality, as has been stated here, is that there is an extremely low retention rate in the Church and probably only 5 million practicing members world-wide. If the Church wants its memebers to truly become dedicated rather than just comfortable cultural Mormons - being honest about stats and announcing real activity rates annually may jar a lot of members out of complacency and into the reality of badly needed member missionary work. Maybe then everyday (not full-time missionaries) would take their missionary responsibilities half as serious as JWs do.

To Soloman | 2:50 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Soloman, Yes the JWs put a lot of emphasis on when the end would come and they missed badly. But do LDS realize there have been just as many if not more missed predictions in their Church? Perhaps they were not as emphasized or anticipated as in the JW faith but dates were made and missed in the LDS Church too. And I think the JWs do think all people up until Noah lived over in the middle east rather than Missouri. Most knowledgeable LDS know it is not in their best interest to highlight incorrect or odd prophecies/beliefs of others.

No, no, here is the problem... | 2:50 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

No, no, here is the "problem" with the "Martyrdom story at Carthage"...It was NOT that Joseph Smith tried to defend himself, which he did. It is that the REASON he was there in the cell was because he had ordered the destruction of PRIVATE property (the Expositor) because William Law was going to print the account of his polygamous life to the public. JS did not want that getting out, polygamy was still a secret at that time, so he ordered the destruction of the Expositor printing press. That would land any of us in jail also. JS had tried to talk Mrs. Law into leaving William Law and marrying him. She refused (good for her!) and told William about it. JS had done the same thing to a number of other women. Now don't get apolectic about this, it is all true. Check it out for yourselves. Don't believe me. I'm a member, I found this out. JS did not really die a martyer (spelling?), he died because of polygamy and his attempts to seduce other men's wives. Ok, now start throwing stones at me!

110 years? | 2:56 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Can someone explain how Mormon stats work? I was thinking, so if a baptized Mormon girl dies at 10, will they immediately remove her from the roles or will she have to wait 100+ years to be removed?

Argumentative? | 3:03 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Friends, Jehovah's Witnesses ahve long been told not to be argumentative. But i can tell you the truth, as a JW, when i was growing up, it was so exciting JUST TO FIND SOMEONE who knew something about the bible and who were willing to talk that it was very engaging to get into an argument.

I really enjoyed the conversations myself. But i do know that some people are quite offended. Today, it is harder and harder to find people with Bible knowledge and when i meet one, i still sometimes have to stop myself from wanting to get into what i think of as an "engaging" conversation. Now that I'm older and our mission is to "make disciples", I usually allow this goal to supersede my own will.

But I do miss the school years of preaching and talking to people at the doors about their firmly held beliefs. It is ashame that more and more people know little about God's Word.

Come back to reallity | 3:11 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Very intering comments. We should take this townhall meeting as a roadshow outside the intermountain west but then again... nobody would care. Try to take an extended vacation out of Utah folks and see the big would out there and we would not be having this conversation over and over again, I know many of you believe you have experienced life outside of utah; but nope a mission does not count! There is a big big world out thier and fortunatly it revolves around many religions and cultures.

Anonymous | 3:19 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Do the 5.2 million Mormons in the US include just the members in good standing (with a temple recommend) or does it include anyone who joined in the last 50 years?

To Solomon Also | 3:24 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

I'm a different person from before. But Solomon, it is easy to attack someone as padding their stats when they "are tallied by their own leadership and are subject to exaggeration." WHAT? OK. SHOW US THE PROOF!!!!!! I mean, anyone can shout FIRE! BOMB! LIAR! It doesn't make it so.

All religions tally their own members. JW numbers are accurate. There are about 10,000 JW congregations in the US. 100 members or less in each congregation. That equals appox. 1M people.

Are the Southern Baptist number accurate? What about the United Methodists? What about Catholics? Who tallies these numbers?

We can ONLY HOPE and ASSUME that churches are being honest about their methodology and question the efficiency of that methodology. JWs have probably the most stringent methodology for calculating membership especially since MOST CHURCHES DON"T HAVE A DOOR-2-DOOR REQUIREMENT for ALL members! We have 7 MILLION people going door-to-door not 500.

I mean, what would happen to the Baptists, LDS, Pentecostals, Catholics, if EVERY SINGLE MEMBER had to go from door-to-door to BE COUNTED! Not to mention having the door slammed!

144,000 = Me | 3:37 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

I am one of the 144,000. I can attest to the truthfulness of this article. Thank you.

Anonymous | 3:37 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

That does it! now I'm putting a sign in my yard that says no missionary's allowed. Right next to my OBAMA sign.

Inciteful | 3:44 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Boy, the LDS church would be number one TOO if we didn't take Halloween off.

Numbers? | 3:46 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

All of you arguing about the numbers are pretty amusing. Those arguing the amount of $ given over a 20 year span haven't considered the size of the church twenty years ago and that $1 million has changed in actual value since then as well.

To be honest, this just seems like a pissing contest when all churches and the basic roots are trying to help other people. Who cares who gives more per capita or where they give it to, it is great to see people giving and trying to make the world a better place.

Solicitations | 3:56 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

For those who do not want missionaries or any type of solicitations knocking on their door - it's easy :). Put a sign on your door or near it - "No solicitations of any kind and that means YOU!" In most states if you receive a solicitation say even from a pizza place they have broken the law and can be fined. It does stop unwanted knocks on the door.

To 110 years | 3:59 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

The Church removes people from their roles who die as long as they are aware of the death (the 10 year old in your example would be removed when she died). It is is the millions of inactive members who are finally removed only when they reach 110 on record or officially ask to have their names removed. The result is that millions among the 13 million announced membership number have nothing to do with the Church. And IMO this practice is not healthy for the Church. It may fuel a certain sense of pride or allow us to pat ourselves on the back but it does not highlight the incredible need for members to get out of their comfort zone and help a Church grow that is in reality much smaller than leaders want us to think.

Why Not Announce Activity Rate? | 4:32 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

I don't care about the practices of other Churches. I honestly want to know why the Church does not announce activity rates? I recognize that at first there would be a bit of a shock for members who have no idea that 13 million is not close to the actual number of dedicated, practicing memebers. It may be hard to get a completely accurate world-wide count but wards do physically count numbers in attendance during Sacrament (I always thought that guy had a cool job wondering up and down the isles not having to listen to the talks). They know how many acknowledge they are full tithe payers at the end of the year. Heck forget the tithe payers and just average the counted attendance numbers ward by ward and extrapolate it world-wide against 13 million and you would get a fairly good idea of number of at leaset fairly active members. Getting a count of temple attending type members may be harder. In the long run wouldn't this be a positive dose of reality and energize our missionary efforts? Or do we have to keep throwing out the feel-good numbers?

Archaea Cougarguard | 4:38 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

I agree with Beth from Orem that non-Utah residents are not qualified to participate in this forum. Those of us who are blessed to live here in zion do not need outsiders coming in with new ideas to confuse our true thinking. We have the absolute truth, any further discussion is superfluous. It only sows the seeds of evil to be exposed to any new thoughts. Our leaders tell us how to think, and that is good enough for me!

Dan | 4:41 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

The church may remove the membership from the ward when a person has died. But the church always retains the in-actives along with active members membership. They are as well kept and stored within their files. That never goes away. It is kept for genealogy and history purposes. Which is nice!!!

ROBERT | 5:08 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

To "Mike R" why did Joseph Smith die so young? Joseph Smith stated "I prophesy they never will have power to kill me till my work is accomplished, and I am ready to die."(History of the Church, vol. 6, p618)
Why then did he have a gun to defend himself if he was ready to die? Why did he take the first shot and then empty his gun on the crowd?
Sounds like to me he wasn't ready to die. The church states that he died before his work was finished.

Mormon Confidential | 5:17 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

The Mormon church does know exactly how many attends church and how many don't. Each Sunday there is somebody responsible to count the amount of behinds are on the pews. This is where they get accurate information worldwide. It gets compiled and the computer generates percentages very easily and quickly at the church's headquarters. But as to their willingness to share that information, it's absolutely confidential. This and the resources of the church, especially the balance sheet are for the eyes of the very top of the leadership. No one else gets to see it, accept the chief accountant who brings the classified information.

Only the US military has higher classified information, and that it with their nuclear arsenal codes.

ROBERT | 5:20 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

To "144,000=me" are you Jewish? Because the 144000 mentioned in Revelation are Jews. These 144000 Jews will not be anounced until the 70th week of Daniel (the last 7 years before Jesus returns).
The 70th week of Daniel starts when a 7 year peace treaty is signed between Israel and Islam.
As far as I have seen in the news, this has not happened yet so you could not be one of the 144000 mentioned in Revelation.

Thomas | 5:57 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Robert -- Get your facts straight. Joseph Smith only opened fire on the mob *after* they had shot his brother dead. Good for him. The only thing I can find to criticize about Joseph's conduct on that occasion was his aim.

Good for Joseph! | 6:12 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Joseph Smith was no dummy. While incarcerated he enjoyed some good wine his last few days with the Bretheren (John Taylor later said that yes it was the real stuff) and had a gun smuggled in to him. This, along with marrying the hotter girls in his Kingdom and trying to show he could translate everything from Egyptian to Pig Latin simply shows that JS was human. I am fine with that. It is just that too many in the Church want to make him out to be more than human and thus look foolish trying to explain away everything that was human about him.

Dominique | 6:46 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

next to Non-Practicing Catholics, the fastest growing group would be Recovering Mormons.

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

That drug was a trip and took me 10 years to get clean. Thank God for 12 steps.

ROBERT | 6:47 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

"Thomas" Why then did Joseph Smith have a gun in the first place, to shoot if shot at?? Why did he feel he needed a gun to protect himself? Why did he then try jumping from the window if he was not ready to die?

I agree | 6:52 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Terri Dance Salisbury Missouri | 11:44 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
To Will, and Trouble,
"I know for certain Parley P. Pratt's autobiography tells very detailed information about the lingering death from the wound received by at least one of the men hit by bullets fired by Joseph Smith at Carthage Jail (out of the gun brought by Cyrus Wheelock--which belonged to John Taylor). Buddy Youngreen can give good details too. Nothing about Carthage will hurt your testimony, the more you know from primary source material the less you can be deceived or confused by poorly trained or prepared teachers at church or enemies of the church. It is hard to say who does more damage...."

It wouldn't matter-It would be self defense.

I've heard that line from b4 | 6:56 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

jade | 2:33 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
"Religion is just fine for those who can't think for themselves."

Ironic...Seems you can't think for yourself either.

Anonymous | 6:59 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Let me see fourth largest and second fasted growing!!! You're comments don't hurt my testimomy.

Do these statistics hurt you and your perceptions of The Church of Jesus Chist of Latter-Day Saints? From your comments I would this it would be a resounding yes!

Tata All and spend a little more time working on your families and personal relationships rather attacking the LDS Church.

If | 7:05 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Wait | 9:27 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
"Well, so who complies the LDS membership numbers? Oh, that's right ... the LDS church does."

If you and enough of your buddies want to attend meetings to verify the numbers...Go ahead. It might do you some good.

Jeddidiah | 7:34 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Enough ignorance here...We are letting the outside would hear our Utah testimony and I fill ASHAMED. Yes Utah is full of religious zealots or idiots, if you like (both LDS and non the like), and that prophecy has been fulfilled and I have a personal testimony to that effect. Get along people and just do the best you can and treat you neighbors with respect.

Beats me. | 7:50 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Funny how the story was about statistics and somehow goes in so many directions that now we are talking about who Joseph shot and how long it took him to die. You just gotta love people who are religious. Comanded to love and forgive each other but always ready to fight and hold a grudge! For me I'd be so happy to find a Church, ANY Church who could just stick to one story and one history. Take me to this paradise!!!!

To Beats me | 9:11 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

You said. "For me I'd be so happy to find a Church, ANY Church who could just stick to one story and one history. Take me to this paradise!!!!"

Good news and bad news with that. Good news is that, there is such a church.

The bad news is, it's not here on earth, so you have to be dead to enjoy it. Because any time a man touches what was God's, it's no longer and forever becomes tainted.

So, you have to get back to the source that has not been touched by man, and that's up there where He is.

Anonymous | 9:34 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

All I know about Church membership and growth rates is:

1) Convert baptisms in first world countries is next to nil. I've talked to scores of ex-missionaries who served in Eruope, Japan, or English-speaking US missions and were lucky to get 2 baptisms if they had any.

2) The exit numbers are highly inaccurate. If you send Member Records a letter asking them to remove your name from the roster they'll stop sending you letters asking which ward to send your records to but they tell you that to get them to tak your name off the records you have to "talk with your bishop." That's exactly what they said to me.

So the only reliable data is the activity rate, which hovers somewhere around 30%. In my mission field ward the phone directory listed a slew of members who never attended - and those were the families who we knew lived in the ward.

144,000 = Me | 9:55 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

Yes, it is true. I am one of the chose 144,000. I rest of you are destined to live on earth the remainder of your days... Come to your local kingdom hall and see what you all have been missing.

money | 11:03 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008

The wards and stakes get money based on attendence. They need to keep track of it. they know what is happening with people

AnnCP | 12:47 a.m. Feb. 19, 2008

I am so glad I do not live in Utah. I love my community that has many religious beliefs and ethnic backgrounds. I am surrounded by wonderful, charitable people, and when push comes to shove, they all show up on your doorstep to help out. You comment on such pettiness. I would be ashamed by many of you if you lived in my neighborhood. Many of you need to show greater tolerance, or go out of your way to show geniune kindness to others or express joy in others success and righteous beliefs. In the end - it does matter how you treated one another.

Mary Jenkins | 2:16 a.m. Feb. 19, 2008

These reports are "SELF-REPORTING" stats tallied by the Watchtower society themselves.They wouldn't cook the books would they?

Jerry Jones | 7:03 a.m. Feb. 19, 2008

SUMMARIES OF NEARLY 1000 JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES LAWSUITS & COURT CASES

There is tons of info, positive and negative, on the internet about Jehovah's Witnesses and the WatchTower Society. Nearly all is extremely prejudiced per the single source narrow view.

For an accurate assessment of JWs, try looking at them through the "lens" of the American judicial system over the past 8 decades.

The following two websites present SUMMARIES OF NEARLY 1000 JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES LAWSUITS & COURT CASES, which go back to the 1930s.

Someone once said that the best way to judge someone is to see how they treat their children and pets. Sorry, no "pets" court cases, but the two following websites do reveal how JWs treat their children, and reveal how JWs treat their Employers.

The following website summarizes over 500 U.S. court cases and lawsuits affecting children of Jehovah's Witness Parents.

DIVORCE, BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS, AND OTHER LEGAL ISSUES AFFECTING CHILDREN OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

The following website summarizes over 300 court cases and lawsuits involving JWs and their Employers, and over 100 "secret" historical background cases.

EMPLOYMENT ISSUES UNIQUE TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESS EMPLOYEES

To Jerry Jones | 7:44 a.m. Feb. 19, 2008

Thanks for the update. Now are we supposed to care about this information? Looks like some low numbers in comparison to millions of people. Do you exaggerate everything this way?

Anonymous | 8:08 a.m. Feb. 19, 2008

It's interesting how stories such as this bring out the religious bigots. Judge somebody by their beliefs and you're a bigot. Many good people can be found in each religion. Of course, they can't all be right because their beliefs contradict those taught by other religions. That doesn't make them stupid or fanatic. I applaud those leaders who say, "Let's work together for good, concentrating not on our differences but upon our similarities, especially our high morals and lofty goals and attempts to live Christlike lives of service and love of others." By the way, the article did not say the LDS religion is the fourth fastest growing religion.

MRilke | 9:25 a.m. Feb. 19, 2008

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the people on this site are completely ignoring the fact that the article clearly states that the Church of God in Christ (COGIC,) a predominately African-American church, has as many members as the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints.

Considering that we all know how the Mormons "count" their members, I am certain that there are more active COGIC members than Mormon!

Now THIS is news!

Pittakos | 10:06 a.m. Feb. 19, 2008

Actually, the fastest growing church in the United States, as well as the world, is the Church of the Holy Pittakos. At the beginning of the year, I was the only member. I signed up my wife and four kids and can now boast a whopping 500% growth rate.

Watch for missionaries (we call them uga-lalas) coming to your neighborhood soon and my the Holy Pittakos bring fear to your souls.

Mormon JW | 10:27 a.m. Feb. 19, 2008

I'm a former Mormon (baptized when teenager b/c my girlfriend wanted me to) who is now a Jehovah's Witness. Guess I'm probably counted in both stats!!! Glad to make a positive contribution to the world!!!

percentage stats? | 10:25 a.m. Feb. 19, 2008

Does this mean if I start a church and get 3 other people to join this year that I'm the fastest growing church in the US now?
Cool.

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