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Jehovah's Witnesses are fastest-growing U.S. faith; LDS are fourth-largest U.S. faith
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John | 3:58 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
My family are active Jehovah's Witnesses and they say less and less are
showing up at the Kingdom Hall meetings and for the field service door to door
work,so go figure that one out.
Mormon US Soldier | 6:14 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Although I disagree tremendously with the J.W.'s abstainment from military
service, I respect the people who go out and preach the Word of God in any
religion. I think that more LDS members should be member-missionaries like them.
Charity rocks!
Comments continue below
Trouble | 7:40 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
This shows how the books have been cooked by the LDS Church. Now, the truth
appears. Fourth, not first. And the numbers are probably even worse than are
being reported. I've seen it, you've seen it, we all have seen it.
People come thru the front door, get baptized, then go right out the back door
when they learn all about the goofy history and how it's been covered up.
The only thing that will save the Church is total honesty about Joseph Smith,
Brigham Young, polygamy and what really happened at Carthage.
Greatcrowd | 8:01 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Matt 24:14
Jazz Fan | 8:10 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
I congratulate The Jehovah Witnesses for their fine and relentless missionary
efforts to proclaim the name of God...Great Work!
The Real Story... | 8:16 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
This is a badly written story, inaccurately conveying information on the Web
site beliefnet.com. The Jehovah Witnesses are not the fastest-growing U.S.
faith. According to beliefnet.com, the Jehovah's Witneeses only had a
growth in 2007 of around 22,500 members, or 2.25 percent of their total
membership of approximately 1 million members in the U.S. and Canada. The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, on the other hand, had a growth of
88,920 members in the United States alone. The inaccuracy, intentional or
otherwise, comes from the fact that the journalist did not look into the
numbers, but only quoted percentages. True growth is total new membership, not
percentage of growth. Additionally, the story counts Jehovah Witness membership
in the U.S. and Canada, but only counts L.D.S. membership in the U.S. While
statistics are not all that important when it comes to faith, an honest
recounting of those statistics is.
Sam I Am | 8:44 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Great, does this mean they are the true church now?
I am just getting use to the other one i joined because someone told me it was the fastest growing church.
I am just getting use to the other one i joined because someone told me it was the fastest growing church.
Wait! | 9:09 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Wait until next quarters figure are out! Mitt put Mormonism center stage. See
the return on investment. What more proof do people need that the LDS Church is
main stream? The nation saw Mitt sharing the stage with McCain.
utwingnut | 9:19 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Who cares.
Wait | 9:27 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Well, so who complies the LDS membership numbers? Oh, that's right ... the
LDS church does.
And i'm pretty sure that the LDS church includes members who were baptized but stopped coming to church 3 weeks later.
It seems silly to accuse the Watchtower for counting their membership the same way the Mormons do.
And i'm pretty sure that the LDS church includes members who were baptized but stopped coming to church 3 weeks later.
It seems silly to accuse the Watchtower for counting their membership the same way the Mormons do.
Randall Watters | 9:42 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Witnesses were once fighters for certain good things in our laws, but the
organization has evolved full circle into a bunch of hypocritical old men who
remain in a severely retarded Victorian world where they hole up and say,
"We are the only true religion!" and yet the soup stinks. They are
declining the last two years in many parts of the earth due to THIS, the
internet, the very thing they are encouraged to avoid because it makes them look
so bad. Follow any of the links about Jehovah's Witnesses in the search
engines and you will find the record of false prophecies, flip-flops in
doctrine, phony dates, and bloodguilt over wrongful deaths, including those from
following their ever-changing stance on blood transfusions.
someone else | 9:50 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
All I can say is......
"WHY?"
"WHY?"
Danny, Kenny, John | 9:46 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Way to protect your fragile egos. Likewise, LDS Church membership seems to go
up every year - but we can't get HQ to tell us how many of the 13 million
are active, can we?
Hey,kenny | 9:55 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Who compiles and verifies LDS membership numbers?
I wonder | 10:06 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
how many are in the church of Satan?
More Bigotry | 10:17 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
It is interesting how the negative comments come out on any religious story
whether it be on Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses or anyone else.
Colombia | 10:26 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Most of the converts to the mormon church in latin america come from the
economic poor class of society. The mormon church is recognized as the maids
church because so many of the members are of the servant industry. These are
people who most other people will not even give them the time of day. Along
comes the young mormon missionarys in their white shirts and ties, they almost
look like bankers, and they will not only give the time of day, but they will
come to your home and visit and play with your children. It is an easy sale.
But the infatuation usually dosen't last too long and everybody goes back
to business as usual, maybe a little better off for having know for a short time
a couple of good guys from a foriegn land.
Growth Rate OR Size | 10:30 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Does the LDS Church want to emphasize it's size - 4th largest in North
America, 13 million worldwide - or it's growth rate? One does affect the
other.
It is not a secret that the LDS Church does not deduct inactive members from its overall member count of 13 million. It only deducts baptized members who die, reach a certain age on record (I believe 110), ask to have their names removed, and possibly those excommunicated. Because of this, the 13 million number is very, very inflated in terms of actual active, practicing members. Actual active members is probably about 5 million worldwide. If the Church were able to swallow some pride and report the actual number of active members, the growth rate would increase substantially because new members (converts and baptized children) would be calculated against a smaller overall membership number. It is also a fact that convert numbers have declined as well so as long as the Church insists on the 13 million and growing figure, the growth rate will continue to be small and pale in comparison to the heady 1980s that drove the annual announcement of numbers.
It is not a secret that the LDS Church does not deduct inactive members from its overall member count of 13 million. It only deducts baptized members who die, reach a certain age on record (I believe 110), ask to have their names removed, and possibly those excommunicated. Because of this, the 13 million number is very, very inflated in terms of actual active, practicing members. Actual active members is probably about 5 million worldwide. If the Church were able to swallow some pride and report the actual number of active members, the growth rate would increase substantially because new members (converts and baptized children) would be calculated against a smaller overall membership number. It is also a fact that convert numbers have declined as well so as long as the Church insists on the 13 million and growing figure, the growth rate will continue to be small and pale in comparison to the heady 1980s that drove the annual announcement of numbers.
CRBUR | 10:30 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
These are typical statistics manipulation. Take large increases compared to a
small base and presto you have a winner. It would be interesting to see what
the absolute growth of individuals was during the observation period.
It is also interesting to note that the Jehovah's Witnesses of today seem to have forgotten that their organization predicted the second coming in September 1975. I had several close acquaintances and friends that were of that persuasion at the time and they were already to be taken up as part of the 144,000. The organization did some pretty fancy dancing in the months following that and lost a lot of followers. Now it is a rationalized part of the distant past. Hummmm... Interesting, from the standpoint of one who was there and saw it in real time.
It is also interesting to note that the Jehovah's Witnesses of today seem to have forgotten that their organization predicted the second coming in September 1975. I had several close acquaintances and friends that were of that persuasion at the time and they were already to be taken up as part of the 144,000. The organization did some pretty fancy dancing in the months following that and lost a lot of followers. Now it is a rationalized part of the distant past. Hummmm... Interesting, from the standpoint of one who was there and saw it in real time.
T | 10:33 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Amen Brad. Very well put.
Will | 10:43 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Trouble,
What really happened at Carthage? Where are you getting your info?
What really happened at Carthage? Where are you getting your info?
Lunchbucket | 10:48 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Perhaps the LDS got a little too comfortable leading the nation and world in
growth rates for so long and as a result got too complacent in their efforts,
thinking that we would still lead in numbers regardless. We're being
outworked right now and maybe this is a wakeup call to get more charitable by
getting out of our comfort zones at church and in our neigborhoods and quit just
thinking that others will get the work done. I've been to many
congregations as a new individual and it seemed like no one cared. There's
no excuse for that kind of lack of love and concern and friendliness. If we see
someone we don't know, that means that need to see a lot of handshakes and
invitations into our homes.
No Blood Transfusion, won't fly | 10:53 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
The Jehovas Witness used to come to my house, I enjoyed discussons with them.
One day they challenged me to begin the process of joining. I had to explain to
them, that even if I was going to join another church, it would never be that
church. I explained that if I or a member of my family ever needed a blood
transfusion to live, there is no way I am going to refuse the transfusion.
Anonymous | 11:30 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
There are no true churches. Churches are made by man to control man. True
religion is who a person becomes spiritually in this life. I like the freedom of
knowing that we all have been given a mind in which we can control on our own.
We can choose right or we can wrong and be evil. Most people try to choose to
live righteously. I believe most religions are cults and nothing more. You have
your choice to join one. Not my business.
Thomas | 11:35 a.m. Feb. 16, 2008
"The Real Story" -- What's wrong with using percentage growth
rather than absolute number growth? That's the way I pick stocks.
Obviously, a smaller church can get more percentage growth for each new member
than a larger church, but tracking percentage growth is a valid measure.
Colombia | 12:04 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
What is it with the monitors at DN. I posted a perfectly honest contribution and
you censored it and did not post it, why? If you can't deal with the truth
and honesty how will you grow, or do you know something I do not...tell me. I
lived it, where are you getting your information.
russ | 12:19 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
About ten years ago i was walking on a sunny summer day on the sidewalk near the
railroad depot in Pulawy, Poland, 90 miles south of Warsaw. Two old people,
husband and wife, stopped me to give me their Watchtower, etc. I was so
impressed because these people knew what being non-communists was all about...
they had seen the suffering of minorities and their fellow believers. They had
probably suffered greatly under the old communist regime.
What faith! Gee whilikers... Yah gotta hand it to them, faithful.
That's all there is to the story.
I hope they are still alive and handing out pamphlets to the strangers.
What faith! Gee whilikers... Yah gotta hand it to them, faithful.
That's all there is to the story.
I hope they are still alive and handing out pamphlets to the strangers.
shadow | 12:19 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Numbers numbers numbers. Does the Almighty keep score? How? Or, more
importantly, why?
Sometimes we little specks of dust like to think the Almighty needs us for some ... reason...? Companionship? Love? Obedience?
Would a God, a Lord, really worry about the count?
Oh, sometimes, late at night, you can hear Him laughing. Or maybe it is a She? BUt I know we can hear the laughter of the Master if we will just shut up and quitting counting.
The Shadow knows.
Sometimes we little specks of dust like to think the Almighty needs us for some ... reason...? Companionship? Love? Obedience?
Would a God, a Lord, really worry about the count?
Oh, sometimes, late at night, you can hear Him laughing. Or maybe it is a She? BUt I know we can hear the laughter of the Master if we will just shut up and quitting counting.
The Shadow knows.
Anonymous | 12:44 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Let's get the damage control machine fired up in SLC. I would expect clear
and unequivocal arguments from the the mounths of the faithful about the
percentages and numbers of the one true church.
NanoChron | 12:59 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
There are many ways of looking at growth. The article is using percent growth.
That is fine. If one wants to use the actual number of new members to define
which church is growing the fastest, then the Catholic's are growing the
fastest with a growth of about 600,000 new members. That number dwarfs any of
the other churches in the US.
As far as inflated numbers, there are other ways to see if a church is growing or shrinking. One way would be to look at the number of congregations or or the number of chapels/mosques/synagogues. Any church cannot afford to continue to build chapels if there are no members to attend it.
I think the LDS church publishes both of these numbers every year. I know for sure the church publishes the number of Stakes, Wards and Branches every year.
As far as inflated numbers, there are other ways to see if a church is growing or shrinking. One way would be to look at the number of congregations or or the number of chapels/mosques/synagogues. Any church cannot afford to continue to build chapels if there are no members to attend it.
I think the LDS church publishes both of these numbers every year. I know for sure the church publishes the number of Stakes, Wards and Branches every year.
Concerned | 1:15 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
you can spend the rest of your life argueing about TRUE churches.
My concern is less people in America are believing in God and thus we are becoming a Godless society.
No God equals no sense of right and wrong.
laguna | 1:22 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
churches use growth statistics as a way of keeping score, like a game. members
use growth to try to convince them that they made the right choice. most honest
organizations purge the inactive members from the membership numbers, not
religions though. I would bet that Costco, if asked would give honest membership
numbers and not count all people who had ever been members in the past and were
not currently members.
Gangsta | 1:32 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
we a church that is growing in numbers too! Think back ten years ago where we
were..this gives alot of hope to us!
jade | 2:33 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Religion is just fine for those who can't think for themselves.
To Will | 2:43 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Like many other people, Trouble believes (or has been told) that Smith killed
several men at Carthage Jail, that instead of defending those he promised to
protect, he tried to run away by jumping out of the window, and that Smith
actually died from falling out of the window.
Here's the truth - Yes, Smith fired a gun at the Carthage Jail mob, but he did not kill anyone. John Taylor was later told by someone that a few in the mob had died, but if this were true, what were their names? Why is it that whenever LDS critics accuse Joesph Smith of killing men at Carthage Jail, they never mention any names? You would think every book or pamphlet, ridiculing the LDS Church would have these men's names published in bold letters.
Yes, Smith jumped out the window, but critics often omit the fact that some of the mob at Carthage stood outside the jail, while others ran inside, so either way, Smith was a dead man. By jumping out, the mob inside the jail ran back outside, therefore allowing Willard Richards and John Taylor to hide, thus saving their lives.
There is what really happened.
Here's the truth - Yes, Smith fired a gun at the Carthage Jail mob, but he did not kill anyone. John Taylor was later told by someone that a few in the mob had died, but if this were true, what were their names? Why is it that whenever LDS critics accuse Joesph Smith of killing men at Carthage Jail, they never mention any names? You would think every book or pamphlet, ridiculing the LDS Church would have these men's names published in bold letters.
Yes, Smith jumped out the window, but critics often omit the fact that some of the mob at Carthage stood outside the jail, while others ran inside, so either way, Smith was a dead man. By jumping out, the mob inside the jail ran back outside, therefore allowing Willard Richards and John Taylor to hide, thus saving their lives.
There is what really happened.
Anonymous | 2:55 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Clear and simple we have it and we have the true church. Pay no attention to
these detracters as it is pointless. We know the numbers in our heart and the
strength and greatness the truth brings us.
"Pay no attention to the man in the corner".....?
Clearly if one looked at the J-Dubs or Catholic doctrine and prayed over it, they would find themselves talking to their nearest LDS nieghbor about how to begin the conversations of inquiry into the church. And that my friends is the truth, we have it and the others not so much.
"Pay no attention to the man in the corner".....?
Clearly if one looked at the J-Dubs or Catholic doctrine and prayed over it, they would find themselves talking to their nearest LDS nieghbor about how to begin the conversations of inquiry into the church. And that my friends is the truth, we have it and the others not so much.
Joe | 2:59 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
I believe the LDS Church counts everyone because we seek out all less/in-active
members and invite them back. If any wish to have their names removed they may
through a sometimes arduous process, but it can be done (some think it should be
swifter).
Anonymous | 3:07 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
check the statistics: 680 baptized every day in 2006
Thoughts about "inactives" | 3:11 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Admittedly, there are plenty of people baptized LDS who haven't been back
to church in years. However, the church keeps them on record and local wards
actually know who these people are. Can the same be said for most other
churches? That's what I thought. They have no idea. All churches have
their inactives but most don't keep track of who comes and goes. If you
are going to complain about LDS "inactives", hold everyone else to the
same standard.
Bill | 3:18 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
The fastest-growing church is the Holy Church of Fairborn Avenue. Last year it
had two members, this year it has six.
To Lynda | 3:21 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Now you know how non-Mormons feel when the Mormon missionaries come around
preaching to them a couple of times a year. It's annoying. I don't
know how anyone can swallow the tall tales of Mormonism, either.
Stinker | 6:21 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
All I have to say is Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas to them.
Oh I love | 7:25 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Utah politics and religion can really get these people swaying in unison...lean
to the left , lean to the right...anti-immigration..be compassionate..another
buttars...naacp..now this!
Patriot | 7:24 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
The founding fathers of this great land made it possible for all of us to
exercise our faith in the manner in which we believe. That meant if we
didn't believe we would not be forced to by any government. We had - HAVE -
those freedoms now. Who has the most members in any way is always argumentative,
and who cares. If a person really believes in a power greater than us, and a
place to share after this existence they really only want to share it with
others. Thus the missionary efforts of the LDS, JW and others. Trust that they
all work in love for you and me. This is a great land and I feel as the one
comment, we are becoming a Godless society, and take a look at where we are
going. If you like what you see or just don't care then why worry. If you
find there is not heaven, then you needn't worry how you live. If, on the
other hand, you find there is what then. Statistics mean nothing if there is one
person left out of the plan.
Actually... | 7:31 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Actually, rate of increase is calculated as a proportion and not total numbers.
This story is about how fast the change is occurring, which is a rate.
Statistically it would be very easy to be the fastest growing church in the
nation by simply starting a new church this year with a person or two and get
half a dozen to join next year, and suddenly you have increases in the hundreds
of percent.
Be very careful with reporting of statistics in media articles because statistics have very specific meanings but media writers tend to grossly generalize to build their conclusions and they don't stay with the meaning of the metric on which they base their story. Such inexactness leads people to think that statistics is a profession of obfuscation where lies are less detrimental to society than statistics.
Bad data is always a concern (including how data are reported). However, when comparing rates of change, media writers almost always only compare to last year's value. Changes from one year to another may be, in fact, solely the consquence of random variation. One needs to have 5 to 10 years or more of data to detect significant changes.
Be very careful with reporting of statistics in media articles because statistics have very specific meanings but media writers tend to grossly generalize to build their conclusions and they don't stay with the meaning of the metric on which they base their story. Such inexactness leads people to think that statistics is a profession of obfuscation where lies are less detrimental to society than statistics.
Bad data is always a concern (including how data are reported). However, when comparing rates of change, media writers almost always only compare to last year's value. Changes from one year to another may be, in fact, solely the consquence of random variation. One needs to have 5 to 10 years or more of data to detect significant changes.
Brian Utley | 7:36 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
In my former branch here in Belize, Central America, we had upwards of 250
"members" on the records of the Church. Of those, only about 40
people actually find their way to church or even could. Most of them are no
longer Mormon, largely because of the poor job done with retention over the 25
years the missionaries have been in this country. If my math is correct, that
means that about 12% of the members really are Mormons. The rest of them have
become Jehova's Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventists, Baptists, Methodists and
so forth. Using those numbers, it would mean the LDS Church really has only
about 1.5 million actual members, rather than the 13 million it reports. This
may sound silly, but I wonder if this isn't closer to the truth. We leave
people on the roles, then brag about them to one another and the press.
Anonymous | 7:51 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
Nice numbers Brian but serving a mission in Utah we had almost a one hundred
percent retention rate. It was hard but those who chose the right stuck to it.
You are mistaken and are just being an anti to the great thing we are achieving.
Texas LDS | 7:59 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
A couple points:
1) Inactivity happens in all religions. Why beat yourselves up about whether membership numbers accurately reflect activity levels?
2) To those criticizing the Prophet Joseph - have you been to Carthage? Jumping out the window, whether intentional or not, would have caused serious harm or death and anyone actually attempting it would have done it as a last resort. I have been there and it is a sacred place.
3) Reporting rate of increase is the appropriate way to describe growth. Therefore using a percentage as the measure is correct.
1) Inactivity happens in all religions. Why beat yourselves up about whether membership numbers accurately reflect activity levels?
2) To those criticizing the Prophet Joseph - have you been to Carthage? Jumping out the window, whether intentional or not, would have caused serious harm or death and anyone actually attempting it would have done it as a last resort. I have been there and it is a sacred place.
3) Reporting rate of increase is the appropriate way to describe growth. Therefore using a percentage as the measure is correct.
LaMarr Hedley | 8:04 p.m. Feb. 16, 2008
This is an interesting follow up to a leadership change in the mormon church
that could be best described as corporate. No mysticism, no calling form god,
just the vice president appointed by the board. Now the numbers come out. Not
our own numbers, someone else put it together. So, it's open to
interpretation. And, the numbers for the other guys are cooked.
Poring over numbers and stats to prove you're the true church, the best church, or whatever, is wrong. I figure church always only has one member. Me. It's about my relationsip with god. Not about whom facilitates the process, or what rituals I observe, or whom I observe them with. Ranking by sales figures works for auto manufacturers. I get god all to myself.
Poring over numbers and stats to prove you're the true church, the best church, or whatever, is wrong. I figure church always only has one member. Me. It's about my relationsip with god. Not about whom facilitates the process, or what rituals I observe, or whom I observe them with. Ranking by sales figures works for auto manufacturers. I get god all to myself.
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