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Compassion call could affect immigration bills
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SJ Bobkins | 2:32 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
If you eliminate the crime problem, overcrowding at schools with the increase in
property taxes, the frequent fatal DUI's, I wouldn't have any problem
being "compassionate" on illegals either.
The churches have as an area of concern the entire world, not the interests of a single people or state, and they don't have to worry about paying taxes on property. The rest of us can't afford to be so generous,
Read the crime reports, and who is behind the wheel of those vehicles fueled by alcohol, talk to a cop, get informed. Before you know it, your kids will have no choice but to be placed in bilingual classes, if enrolled in public schools. That means they lose a half a year, every year because of the slow progress when a teacher has to speak in two languages. It's the rule in many AZ and CA school districts. There is a reason the dropout percentage is 75% for hispanics and 20% for whites.
The churches have as an area of concern the entire world, not the interests of a single people or state, and they don't have to worry about paying taxes on property. The rest of us can't afford to be so generous,
Read the crime reports, and who is behind the wheel of those vehicles fueled by alcohol, talk to a cop, get informed. Before you know it, your kids will have no choice but to be placed in bilingual classes, if enrolled in public schools. That means they lose a half a year, every year because of the slow progress when a teacher has to speak in two languages. It's the rule in many AZ and CA school districts. There is a reason the dropout percentage is 75% for hispanics and 20% for whites.
terry | 3:36 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
It is hard to believe that nane of the ither party did not come with an proposal
to stop the deportation of the undocumented alians who has no criminal
record....
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 3:56 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Compassion is a wonderful thing and we should all become more caring towards our
fellow human beings. However, should compassion towards illegal aliens be
allowed to erode the rule of law and cause problems for others? How far should
it go? The rest of us are human beings too and deserve to live in an orderly
and safe environment protected by the rule of law.
As I think legislators have already been very compassionate in considering these anti-illegal immigration bills, I do not understand why this additional call for compassion has been made. I have listened to the floor debates and was impressed by the courteous, compassionate and thoughtful deliberation of the issues.
As other states enact strict anti-illegal immigration laws and these folks leave those states, we will be faced with an even larger influx of illegal aliens if we don't do something about the problem. We cannot afford to wait!
Surely the LDS Church leaders and Bishop Wester can see that illegal immigration is out of control and is adversely affecting the rest of us. Aren't our families equally deserving of compassion?
As I think legislators have already been very compassionate in considering these anti-illegal immigration bills, I do not understand why this additional call for compassion has been made. I have listened to the floor debates and was impressed by the courteous, compassionate and thoughtful deliberation of the issues.
As other states enact strict anti-illegal immigration laws and these folks leave those states, we will be faced with an even larger influx of illegal aliens if we don't do something about the problem. We cannot afford to wait!
Surely the LDS Church leaders and Bishop Wester can see that illegal immigration is out of control and is adversely affecting the rest of us. Aren't our families equally deserving of compassion?
sp | 4:29 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
"Measure twice before you cut"
It has been measured for five years. The longer the problem exists, the deeper resentment will build. For everyones sake it has to be resolved one way or the other this year.
It has been measured for five years. The longer the problem exists, the deeper resentment will build. For everyones sake it has to be resolved one way or the other this year.
Bob G | 5:29 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Write our legislators and tell them not to put their compassion on the wrong
sector of our society and state. Our legislators must also have compassion for
the citizens and legal workers in this state. The illegal aliens are doing quite
well as illgals and do not support or pay taxes that the laws require. Busines
enterprises are at the front of the line to gain support for the illegals and
disregard the american citizens that need jobs and job security. We need
compassion for the americans that every illegal is imitating and victimizing by
being present in this state. These illegals use every means at their disposal to
victimize the citizens and government sponsered services meant for the citizens
of this country. Our legislators must take action to discourage the illegals
from becoming a burden to the tax payers that are being forced by
'political correctness' to avoid calling them a plague and curse to
the american people. Give them no quarters and put your compassion on the
american people, not the illegal aliens from Mexico and beyond. The american
people are the ones suffering and in need of help, the illegals are on a free
ride.
ScottAZ | 5:50 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Like I've said before, I used to have no tolerance for people who are here
illegally. That was before I started studying the scriptures. Now, I don't
agree with the attitude 'round them up and ship them out' of more than
12 million illegal immigrants or aliens or whatever you want to call them.
Kudos to the Church for asking the legislature's consider the humane and
compassionate teachings of our Saviour.
Prosecutor | 6:14 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Yo, s�, tengo compasi�n. Ha habido
seria y prolongada consideraci�n de las consecuencias de
las propuestas normas. La promulgaci�n de cada una de
ellas es esencial. Sin embargo, todas �stas
ser�n a�n insuficientes para prevenir
la destrucci�n de nuestro modo de vivir. Consta que
acci�n seria y oportuna, al nivel federal, es requisito
para evitar el desastre que asecha nuestra p�tria. El
destrozo del pa�s que, no obstante sus numerosas fallas,
constituye guardi�n de la universal >
ser�a falta verdadera y completa de
compasi�
BornAmerican | 6:10 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
If anyone actually needs to have the question of whether the legislature
works for the people of Utah or the LDS church,here's your defining
moment.
Nothing the legislature is working on at present goes beyond existing law and good sense policy,and what the church is asking for is to give illegals a pass on law breaking. So, here's the choice Utahans- do we live in a democracy or a theocracy?
If the latter,I can assure you there will be a huge backlash from those of us who insist on government conforming to the broader principles of a secular democracy.
Think on this- inside of 20 years,non LDS will be the majority in Utah... does it serve you better to have a constituency of illegals on your side,or a non hostile group of 'gentiles' to work with?
Rational thought dictates that illegals be treated as such,and the LDS church needs to work its theology within that framework. At present,the church is contravening the firewall between religion and state.
Please work past your knee jerk reactions and THINK ABOUT the repercussions of acceding to these pressures.
Nothing the legislature is working on at present goes beyond existing law and good sense policy,and what the church is asking for is to give illegals a pass on law breaking. So, here's the choice Utahans- do we live in a democracy or a theocracy?
If the latter,I can assure you there will be a huge backlash from those of us who insist on government conforming to the broader principles of a secular democracy.
Think on this- inside of 20 years,non LDS will be the majority in Utah... does it serve you better to have a constituency of illegals on your side,or a non hostile group of 'gentiles' to work with?
Rational thought dictates that illegals be treated as such,and the LDS church needs to work its theology within that framework. At present,the church is contravening the firewall between religion and state.
Please work past your knee jerk reactions and THINK ABOUT the repercussions of acceding to these pressures.
Jesus Parable, timeless in appli | 6:13 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Its nothing other than mean spirited that someone who grew up here has to pay
out of state tuition. I would have hoped for more from predominately LDS
legislators. It is the democrats though (predominately non LDS) that are voting
against this. Cudos to the church itself for advocating the right thing.
I guess the democrats and the non LDS are the Samaritans among us. Funny how Jesus parable so aptly applies here.
I guess the democrats and the non LDS are the Samaritans among us. Funny how Jesus parable so aptly applies here.
Upset | 6:27 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Here we go again with the same issue many say doesn't happen. Church and
State interactions. Please let lawmakers do their work without outside
influence. This makes me sick when it happens. There have been way to many state
issues that have had this intervention in the past. These kind of heavy handed
responces are what turns outsiders off about our state.
my two cents | 6:24 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
charity begins at home. If we can't allocate enough resources to properly
educate our own children, it's inhumane and irresponsible to allow those
who are not here legally to siphon off education resources. If we can't
fully fund the needs of our own disabled, it's inhumane and irresponsible
to allow those who are not here legally to siphon of social services funds.
It's not inhumane to enforce the law. And if we had a law similar to what
AZ and OK have, those here illegally would more likely leave on their own
accord. Enforcing the law can be done in a humane manner.
Compassionate | 6:29 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
It is interesting we seem to have implied that there is no middle ground here.
We cannot be compassionate and enforce the law? No one is stopping immigration,
all I would like to see is that it happen legally. In this move for
"compassion" which seems to be let anyone into this country who can
get here, give them all the rights of a citizen, and open the door to every
social program we have. Those who advocate "compassion" need to look
at what it is costing us in terms of money spent on education, health care,
automobile insurance (most drive and do not have car insurance) corrections etc.
Lets not forget, not everyone coming across the border is a honest hard working
person just trying to give there children a better life. I have seen estimates
as high as 50% of those crossing are involved in crime.
Come on people lets wake up here. Yes these are people, yes some of them are trying to build a better life for their families, yes I am sympathetic to them, but they are breaking the law, and as a matter of principle we should not reward them for breaking the law.
Come on people lets wake up here. Yes these are people, yes some of them are trying to build a better life for their families, yes I am sympathetic to them, but they are breaking the law, and as a matter of principle we should not reward them for breaking the law.
anonymous | 7:00 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Their is good and bad in every race. Identify the bad and deport them.
Identify the good and give them a path to citizenship (and a temporary SSN #) so
that they can pay taxes, be employed legally w/benefits so that they aren't
getting free health care and other free benefits. I do believe that there should
be consequences for breaking the law (entering the country illegally). They
could pay a fine which could be deducted from their pay over time. Oh
yeah....and SECURE THE BORDER.
I wonder | 7:12 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I wonder if when we stand before the judgement bar and are asked what we did to
or for our fellow men, will it work well for us to say that we worked hard to
enforce the rule of law? Compassion is a good thing, but the rule of law must
be followed, we might say to He who judges us, to which He might say, "Yes,
yes, I see your point." I know for one that if the judge of mankind was
weighing me in the balance, I would hope that mercy and compassion would work
for me and that His sacrifice might satisfy the rule of law. It would be a
terrible thing to be judged in the same manner that I judge others. So good
luck on that.
Hit and Run | 7:09 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Did the Brethren offer a solution to the byproducts of illegal aliens? Not that
I could see. It is great to take an illegal to lunch and find out about their
life, but where does that leave us? Really. Long term, what do we achieve by
taking a soft stand?
The Church has hit and run with their input, but isn't going to write checks to school districts or pay to keep hospitals open, or subsidize the social services.
If they want to help, have them set up an assisted program for self-deportation. Preach the 12th Article of Faith and explain how to liquidate assets and return home in an orderly fashion. Then call on the Saints to add to the fast offering to assist those who have returned home. $50 goes a long way when $1,400 a year is the average annual salary.
Now, THAT would be proactive on the part of the church.
The Church has hit and run with their input, but isn't going to write checks to school districts or pay to keep hospitals open, or subsidize the social services.
If they want to help, have them set up an assisted program for self-deportation. Preach the 12th Article of Faith and explain how to liquidate assets and return home in an orderly fashion. Then call on the Saints to add to the fast offering to assist those who have returned home. $50 goes a long way when $1,400 a year is the average annual salary.
Now, THAT would be proactive on the part of the church.
Confused | 7:18 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
If the church leaders want to pony up the cost of what this immoral, illegal
invasion costs the citizens of this state, then I would look at this situation
in a different light. They did the same thing years ago regarding pari mutuel
horse racing. If the Church has these strong of feelings for these issues lets
see the color of their money to subsidize the state coffers for the expenses it
costs the state in this issue, and in the case of pari mutuel revenue losses
they took away, make that up with cash for estimated revenue loss. Put up or
shut up.
chuk Keilman | 7:22 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I think we all know these are human beings but there is a difference between
compassion and ignoring the law. I would like to see the books of all of the
business leaders who want to "just forget" this bill. It would be
interesting to see how much they are paying the illegal residents. I would but
they are not making regular wages. As a compassionate human being I wonder if
these wonderful leaders aren't creating a race of "slave labor
workers" People who they can pay a fraction of what "Americans"
get. I am against that also. Be compassionate yes but for crying out loud
enforce the law. If your here illegally your committing a crime. Legalize, go
home or let's get ICE to deport them. In order to be a responsible human
being you must be held accountable for your conduct. You shouldn't be able
to come here, break our laws and profit from the many years Americans have
worked and labored to build the greatest nation on Earth.
Hold Parents Accountable | 7:28 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
It is clearly wrong to make children suffer for the crimes of their parents. We
should treat the children who graduate from Utah high schools equally but that
does not mean anything about going after their parents. Entering this country
without permission and taking up residence without documentation is a crime.
Crimes should be punished. Criminals should be apprehended. Being undocumented
means you are a criminal. It is admirable that the children of criminals want to
go to college. It would be even more admirable if their parents stopped being
criminals and showed their children some respect for the rule of law.
Dave | 7:23 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
There are times when Church leaders, who are not perfect, bend over backwards to
pander to the left. The concealed carryon issue was one; illegal immigration is
another.
This is not an issue that the Church can win over with legal immigrants and law-abiding members. However, it will please illegals and the left (who are most often the Church's biggest critics).
Clearly, the Church does not want to offend the millions of illegals in this country, which would happen if it were to side with, say, Mitt Romney's proposal.
I believe it would haveb been better to (as they so often proclaim) remain politically neutral.
Instead, they will unfortunately face opposition by those legislators (and members) who've been taught from the pulpit to obey, honor and sustain the law.
In my opinion, this decision to become political activists on this issue was poorly developed. Stupid is more appropriate, but not politically correct.
This is not an issue that the Church can win over with legal immigrants and law-abiding members. However, it will please illegals and the left (who are most often the Church's biggest critics).
Clearly, the Church does not want to offend the millions of illegals in this country, which would happen if it were to side with, say, Mitt Romney's proposal.
I believe it would haveb been better to (as they so often proclaim) remain politically neutral.
Instead, they will unfortunately face opposition by those legislators (and members) who've been taught from the pulpit to obey, honor and sustain the law.
In my opinion, this decision to become political activists on this issue was poorly developed. Stupid is more appropriate, but not politically correct.
A Note to Congress | 7:24 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Dear Utah Congress,
Thanks to those members of congress who are representing the 90% plus legal Utah residents who feel illegal immigration is a huge problem we face. When you scan the news, start noticing how many horrible crimes are committed by illegal immigrants. You will be amazed and disappointed at the same time. If there are only 12 million illegal immigrants, they are committing way more crimes in proportion to the 300 million legal citizens of the US.
I'm a faithful member of the LDS faith and feel we should compassionately help all of these illegal immigrants leave our state and go back to whatever country they should legally live in. We should help them by following the 12th article of faith:
"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."
Thanks to those members of congress who are representing the 90% plus legal Utah residents who feel illegal immigration is a huge problem we face. When you scan the news, start noticing how many horrible crimes are committed by illegal immigrants. You will be amazed and disappointed at the same time. If there are only 12 million illegal immigrants, they are committing way more crimes in proportion to the 300 million legal citizens of the US.
I'm a faithful member of the LDS faith and feel we should compassionately help all of these illegal immigrants leave our state and go back to whatever country they should legally live in. We should help them by following the 12th article of faith:
"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."
Urban Koda | 7:40 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
As someone who came over here legally, has spent thousands of dollars getting
naturalized, and refuses to accept welfare, I just see this as a huge slap in
the face from the leaders of the Church I belong to. What happened to
"Obey, honor and sustain the law." ? Apparently asking your members to
do things the legal way is just too difficult. I agree that immigration needs
to be fixed, but championing the cause of those who break the law is not the
answer.
freshgarbage | 7:43 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Illegal. It's a big problem, or is it? Every country has immigration laws
to protect their workers. For some reason our government stopped protecting our
workforce several years ago. They have made us compete unfairly with people who
provide cheap labor. If the situation was reversed and business was forced to
compete unfairly, they would be filling the media and airwaves with ads. But the
past several years, no one has voiced compassion towards the average American.
Some of the media will tell you that they do jobs that no one else wants to do, and not listen to the rhetoric. I find this the highest form of rhetoric possible. They want you to believe they are the only ones who have the right answer. Documented workers come here on work visas and return home after the crops are harvested. Of the two companies that were raided, both had workforces that the majority were legal citizens. Illegal's also compete for high paying construction jobs. The facts show the opposite to be true.
What message are we sending to this generation of children that it's OK to break the law, if it helps the economy?
Some of the media will tell you that they do jobs that no one else wants to do, and not listen to the rhetoric. I find this the highest form of rhetoric possible. They want you to believe they are the only ones who have the right answer. Documented workers come here on work visas and return home after the crops are harvested. Of the two companies that were raided, both had workforces that the majority were legal citizens. Illegal's also compete for high paying construction jobs. The facts show the opposite to be true.
What message are we sending to this generation of children that it's OK to break the law, if it helps the economy?
fresh | 7:46 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
What message are we sending to this generation of children that it's OK to
break the law, if it helps the economy?
This is the message that many businesses are telling the honest hard working citizens of the State, in an attempt to push their agenda of getting the entire matter tabled, and bogged down in a committee called the Immigration Task Force. (Senate Bill 97). What they are not telling you is that the measures coming up before the legislature, have all bogged down the last five years. That's right, after five years they think we still need a committee, so they can continue to abuse the laws of the land.
The only solution that has worked in other states, has been to make getting work impossible. Fences or deportation, to only return later, has not worked. A country can only absorb so many immigrants each year before it affects the workers. Once the problem is solved, the more legal immigration can take place. It's the number of illegal's here already that are making it difficult for people trying to enter the country legally.
This is the message that many businesses are telling the honest hard working citizens of the State, in an attempt to push their agenda of getting the entire matter tabled, and bogged down in a committee called the Immigration Task Force. (Senate Bill 97). What they are not telling you is that the measures coming up before the legislature, have all bogged down the last five years. That's right, after five years they think we still need a committee, so they can continue to abuse the laws of the land.
The only solution that has worked in other states, has been to make getting work impossible. Fences or deportation, to only return later, has not worked. A country can only absorb so many immigrants each year before it affects the workers. Once the problem is solved, the more legal immigration can take place. It's the number of illegal's here already that are making it difficult for people trying to enter the country legally.
garbage | 7:46 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
As far as helping the economy, when you factor in the cost of services, crime
and human suffering from the millions who have had their identity stolen, the
cost is to great. For us to raise an entire generation on the premise that
breaking the law is OK, as long as it helps the economy will bring monumental
problems down the road.
What is going on? | 7:50 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Why is it that if you don't pay taxes you can't go to the temple until
you pay them but you can crash the border and sponge off of the taxpayers and
that is acceptable? Why aren't we telling illegals to go home and follow
the law by coming here legally or stay home?
What happened to the article of faith about obeying the law of the land? Also, where is the compassion for the victims of illegal immigrants who are many and growing every day? All the other states are doing the right thing and enforcing the law, if we don't do it Utah will become the national magnet for illegals.
If all the local churches want Utah to be a sanctuary state why don't they set up a fund to pay for it? They would lose all their donors, that's why. Bank robbers want a "better life" too and are willing to break the law to do it much like illegal immigrants.
What happened to the article of faith about obeying the law of the land? Also, where is the compassion for the victims of illegal immigrants who are many and growing every day? All the other states are doing the right thing and enforcing the law, if we don't do it Utah will become the national magnet for illegals.
If all the local churches want Utah to be a sanctuary state why don't they set up a fund to pay for it? They would lose all their donors, that's why. Bank robbers want a "better life" too and are willing to break the law to do it much like illegal immigrants.
Kevin In Texas | 7:56 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I live in McAllen Texas (very far South on the U.S. Mexican boarder) where 85%
of the people who live here are hispanic (U. S. Census statitics). I also
served a mission in Arizona among spanish speaking people. McAllen is good
community. Most of the illegal immigrants that I I know are good people who work
hard (if they are fortunate enough to have a job). They came here to provide
food, clean water, and a roof over their families. They also wanted to provide a
better life for their children, many of which are U. S. citizens by birth. They
often marry citizens of the US. They live in fear of La migra (immigration
agents) and if they are ever caught they get deported and their families are
shattered. They have no jobs in their country of origin, usually they have no
family there either. When this happens, children go on wellfare until the
parents can come back in illeagally and work (what choice do they have?).It is
horrible. Reality is that these people are here to stay and we can't deport
12 million. If we do we destroy 12 million families.
Anonymous | 8:00 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I can't wait to see the lawsuit by out of state students attending Utah
colleges, who sue for in state tuition, based on the fact that Utah gives
illegal aliens in state tuition.
Anonymous | 8:05 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Some of you need to scroll up and click on 'read story'. Read all of
it. Your reading things into it that are not there.
anders | 8:18 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
These new laws passing through our legislator are straight out of South
Africa's apratheid book. They create institutionalized racism where an
employer will be hesitant to hire ethnic applicants because they don't want
the hassle of going through the paperwork neccessary to prove them legal. They
make employers double check legal status, even if an applicant has stated his
status clearly. They refuse education not based on merit, but the nationality of
parents. They make it a crime to associate with an undocumented immigrant
(driving one to work is a misdameanor). Just like Germany's anti-Semitic
laws of the lat 30's these laws feed on the racist and xenophobic attitudes
of people facing economic hardships and point the finger at an easy target.
Mad Again | 8:13 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Where is the division of church and state? In Utah I am beginning to believe
there is none. If the legislature allows the church to interfere in state
matters then it also is breaking laws. We the people voted them into office and
they should be listening to what the people want not what the church wants.
Contrary to popular belief, the church is not always right.
I myself am tired of paying high taxes to cover the benefits reaped by illegal�s, if I have to pay the higher taxes they should go into our school system to benefit our own children. We need to fix things and it should be done quickly.
To the church leader's, please let the legislature do their job and stay out of it!
I myself am tired of paying high taxes to cover the benefits reaped by illegal�s, if I have to pay the higher taxes they should go into our school system to benefit our own children. We need to fix things and it should be done quickly.
To the church leader's, please let the legislature do their job and stay out of it!
BOTTOM LINE | 8:22 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
NOBODY wants illegal immigration to flourish. If you don't stop it
we'll vote you out of office and elect someone who will, regardless of what
any religious representative says.
Craiger | 8:23 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
LDS leaders are Catholics best friends at the moment.
Altaholics | 8:26 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
As a voting constituent of your district I wanted to write you and urge you to
oppose House Bill 241 which would remove in-state tuition from students who
graduated from Utah high schools but have undocumented status. As I see it, our
Latino community has a hard enough time getting it's young people to attend
college to begin with, and the actual number of students that are taking
advantage of the present law is very small. Closing that opportunity would send
a very negative message to motivated members of the Latino community and would
represent a zero sum gain in funding for higher education. While I don't
want to encourage illegal immigration, I feel that motivated and intelligent
members of Utah's community that would continue to work here anyway and
likely had little say in their family's choice to immigrate would best
serve our community and theirs by improving their education. With that
education, they would be well placed for a lucrative job in their home country
or a good job here. Regardless of immigration status, helping young Latinos get
to and stay in college would serve our community and be a better use of
resources than the alternative.
Robert Tayor | 8:35 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
No compassion for law abiding citizens?
suzyk | 8:29 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
To: Prosecutor..if you want us to be able to read what you have written, try
writing it in the right language, the English language of the United States of
America. If you want to have the privileges that Americans have you must earn it
like everyone else. Patience is a key, Respect is a key, Obeying the Law is a
key, Respecting authority is a key. If the illegals wants these freedoms they
have to get them the legal and right way. They need to learn English and realize
freedom does not come easy..they are not an exception to the rule and those who
think they are will remain illegals. We don't get free medical care, food,
education and there is absolutely no reason for them to receive it. We will
fight this all the way. You want it..you earn it. You play..you pay.
LG | 8:36 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Urban Koda said it all. You are the right example of the American dream.
J | 8:35 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
There is nothing immoral about establishing the rules and laws of the land.
This ensures liberty and justice for all. Mercy alone is one sided and serves
only those that benefit from it, at the expense of those who require justice.
However, let us not enact law with malice in our hearts. Write the laws Utah legislatures, however, do not let them be conceived in the spirit of prejudice and bigotry. Do not write any laws to satisfy you own desires for these wicked attitudes.
If this law is passed, those human beings whom it affects will need to respond appropriately; many will leave. But let us not kick them while they are down. They will leave, it will take time. Perhaps the olive branch here is an offering of some modest financial assistance in getting home to their countries of origin. With the caveat that if they return they will go to jail. (I'm not advocating a free vacation home)
However, let us not enact law with malice in our hearts. Write the laws Utah legislatures, however, do not let them be conceived in the spirit of prejudice and bigotry. Do not write any laws to satisfy you own desires for these wicked attitudes.
If this law is passed, those human beings whom it affects will need to respond appropriately; many will leave. But let us not kick them while they are down. They will leave, it will take time. Perhaps the olive branch here is an offering of some modest financial assistance in getting home to their countries of origin. With the caveat that if they return they will go to jail. (I'm not advocating a free vacation home)
Do as I say, not as I do | 8:35 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
The LDS church just tightened up their rules in getting a temple recommend.
They instituted bar codes on them, and the recommends have to be validated
(entered into a computer system) by the Stake Presidency. They did this to
further secure entrance into the temple, so that people who didn't belong
there would have a harder time getting in. It seems to me the LDS church is
hypocritical when they tighten their security, but don't allow the State
Legistature to try and do the same thing.
Anonymous | 8:36 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
People entering the county illegally are criminals and should be expelled (or
jailed). The various anti-american ethnic advocacy groups are working
tirelessly against the best interests of this country and for their own selfish
ethnic agendas. They openly support criminal behavior and defame and demean both
the laws of this county and the people that support, uphold and abide by these
laws. These anti-american entities are no better than the criminals they are
busy advocating for (aiding and abetting)!
Paul | 8:43 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Last I heard, it is called the JUSTICE department, not the compassion
department. There is only safety if there is equal treatment under the law,
meaning equal justice. The responsibility of the state is justice, the
responsibility of individuals is compassion. Elder Pingree is correct in saying
that it is not the job of the church to enforce laws; likewise, it is not the
responsibility of the state to enforce compassion
If individuals want to support others for tuition or living expenses, etc, then they are welcome to. Please send these students who are here illegally to colleges in their home countries. Is this not compassionate? Those who want to support them can contribute to their educations and the students, who will return to their home countries, will also be taught that they are expected to abide by the law if they want to live here.
When we talk about compassion, we need to take in the whole sphere of impact, not just what is seen. Being in the country, in and of itself, might be simple trespass, but that is not the only thing they are doing. What is the impact on others?
If individuals want to support others for tuition or living expenses, etc, then they are welcome to. Please send these students who are here illegally to colleges in their home countries. Is this not compassionate? Those who want to support them can contribute to their educations and the students, who will return to their home countries, will also be taught that they are expected to abide by the law if they want to live here.
When we talk about compassion, we need to take in the whole sphere of impact, not just what is seen. Being in the country, in and of itself, might be simple trespass, but that is not the only thing they are doing. What is the impact on others?
The Prophet | 8:44 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
"Measure twice, cut once," is right out of President Monson's
mouth. He's leaving the deliberations to the lawmakers, but raising a
caution flag. This isn't easy stuff, but in the end the Church's
mandate is to take the gospel to every nation, kindred, tongue and people, even
when they come to the headquarters of the Church to receive it and they
don't always know that's the reason. The numbers are staggering:
240,000 Spanish-speaking people living along the Wasatch Front, 7% of whom are
LDS. The Church would love to see that percentage raised significantly to 50%
to grow the domestic Church in North America. It is a fertile seedbed for
proselyting and conversions. There are already more Spanish-speaking people in
the Church worldwide than any other language. They are being gathered to North
America to receive their covenant blessings promised by the Lord Himself when He
came among the Nephites following his crucifixion and resurrection in Jerusalem.
Make no mistake, this is all in fulfillment of long-standing Book of Mormon
prophecy, and it's being played out right under our noses in the mission
field of Utah. Open your eyes legislators, says the Prophet: "Measure
twice, cut once." Any questions?
Confused | 8:48 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I'm LDS but I will not support the opinion of some of the church leaders on
this. Supporting illegal immigration is so obviously immoral to me. I
can't for the life of me figure out why they came out with these
statements.
Simple Solution | 8:56 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I applaud the LDS church's call to be compassionate. I expect to read in
the near future how BYU will be allowing all illegal immigrants to get an
education at the church's expense.
Law of the Land | 8:51 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
If obeying the Law of the land was important as everybody says, the Mormon
pioneers would have killed each other off to follow Gov. Boggs'
extermination order.
Remember the two greatest commandments? Love thy neighbor as thyself. I'm sorry but there is no question that obeying the law of the land is far lesser law than loving your neighbor, regardless of immigration status.
Remember the two greatest commandments? Love thy neighbor as thyself. I'm sorry but there is no question that obeying the law of the land is far lesser law than loving your neighbor, regardless of immigration status.
Josh | 8:57 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Many are mentioning that illegal immigrants commit more crimes compared to the
general population. 100% of them are committing a crime just by being here. I
understand the need for compassion, but we also must have rule of law. Who would
argue that a father caught robbing a store to feed his starving family ought not
to be punished. Yes tearing him away from his family is not a very compassionate
thing to do, but neither is theft from the poor cashier at the local convenience
store.
I feel very much the same about someone who comes to our country illegally. They are breaking the law and are subject to justice. If they had been caught at the border no one would have questioned that they would be deported. Why question when they have been in hiding for years? Well, now they've brought their family here and seem normal to most. How is this different than the fugitive that goes into hiding and becomes a model citizen? Once caught justice is required to satisfy the law that was broken.
Perhaps compassion/mercy can be extended by saying "Back to your country and apply like everyone else."
I feel very much the same about someone who comes to our country illegally. They are breaking the law and are subject to justice. If they had been caught at the border no one would have questioned that they would be deported. Why question when they have been in hiding for years? Well, now they've brought their family here and seem normal to most. How is this different than the fugitive that goes into hiding and becomes a model citizen? Once caught justice is required to satisfy the law that was broken.
Perhaps compassion/mercy can be extended by saying "Back to your country and apply like everyone else."
Concerned Reader | 8:57 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Oh beautiful for spacious skies ... that we don't want to share!
We love the purple mountian's majesty ... but hate "those people" with black hair!
America ... America .. God shed his grace - on the white, middle class and free.
And kick the butts of the invading force back to their own land of poverty. Ole'
We love the purple mountian's majesty ... but hate "those people" with black hair!
America ... America .. God shed his grace - on the white, middle class and free.
And kick the butts of the invading force back to their own land of poverty. Ole'
Compassion | 9:01 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I wish the church would issue a statement to its members instead of the
Legislature. It's constituents and people like those who commented above
who are driving this ridiculous legislation. Before choosing the illegal aliens
as a scapegoat for all our problems perhaps you should all take a closer look at
the problems and make some INTELLIGENT assessments of the problems we face.
Legislators are hesitant to pass such legislation and are reluctant to do so,
because many know that no good will come of it. It's an election year and
you constituents have spoken loudly about immigration. If you can somehow force
all the undocumented workers out of our state, congrats you've dealt a
crippling blow to Utah's economy. Crime always has more to do with poverty
than ethnicity. Rule of law, amnesty, there was a time in our church's
history when many a church leader was hiding from the federal government. If
states could issue citizenship and or workers permits they would be doing just
that, and we wouldn't be dealing with the issues that we are now. Ask
congress for enforcement not the state.
From a faithfull LDS member | 9:02 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Until the church stands up and says �thus sayeth the
Lord� on this issue, and that legal, law abiding church
members can not be a member in good standing for using a common sense view on
this issue, then Utah citizens and legislatures should compassionately solve
this problem since it is our taxes and not tithing that is being spent.
Solving this may mean taking away some of the rights we have given illegals (i.e. in state tuition and drivers licenses). Just as sin causes discomfort and an urge to repent and change, having natural consequences for being here illegally may force people to return from where they came. This is compassionate not only for them, but also for the countries they came from. Going back, forced or �urged�, will encourage them and their own governments to get to work. In fact they could use the education we have given some of their citizens by way of our tax dollars.
Solving this may mean taking away some of the rights we have given illegals (i.e. in state tuition and drivers licenses). Just as sin causes discomfort and an urge to repent and change, having natural consequences for being here illegally may force people to return from where they came. This is compassionate not only for them, but also for the countries they came from. Going back, forced or �urged�, will encourage them and their own governments to get to work. In fact they could use the education we have given some of their citizens by way of our tax dollars.
The Raven | 8:57 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Is the LDS Church asking legislators and law enforcement to ignore the violation
of immigration laws? It's not clear to me. However, it does sound like it.
Illegal immigration is illegal. It also involves lying and deceit. Why are the
Catholic and LDS Church ignoring this? Do they condone lying and deceit? I hope
not. However, they seem to want everyone to look the other way when dealing with
this problem. If I wanted to get a better job to support my family would they
condone me lying on a job application? Again, I hope not. But they seem to be
willing to condone illegal immigration by hundreds of thousands of people in
this state. I find this very frustrating. The Savior commanded people to tell
the truth. The scriptures say we should obey the law. I'm tired of
one-sided "compassion" that rewards law breakers. If this continues,
the U.S. and Utah will become as corrupt as Mexico.
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Jeffrey D. Allred, Deseret Morning News
University of Utah students Makiko Sato, left, Denise Castaneda and Carmela Willden show support at Capitol Thursday for law that allows children of undocumented parents to pay in-state tuition at state colleges and universities. A bill seeks to repeal the law.
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The people of Utah are picking up the tab for businesses who hire their cheap labor. Every time you write a check to your health insurance, just remember that part of what you pay is going to support their "free" health care. Hospitals can't turn them away, and they recoup their loses by making the insured pay more for their health care. If one of these illegals hits you in his car, who do you think is going to pay? Certainly not them. Compassion usually comes with a great big price tag.