Deseret News | Will Powell be all dried up by 2021?

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Will Powell be all dried up by 2021?

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Media critic | 2:24 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Oh, here's an idea. Let's say something outrageous, put in a press release and foist it upon some unthinking journalist who splash it around the newspapers and suddenly our cause/institution will become well known. The more outrageous, the better chance it will be published.

Way to fall for a p.r. set up, Des News and Associated Press.

This group is only feeding off the hysteria caused by unqualified journalists, untrained in scientific matters, practicing poor journalistic methods.

What an embarrassment for the D-News and AP.

Bob G | 4:48 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

It doesn't take this reprot to see the truth in the matter. The Colorado river is drying up and shrinking every year, from its source to the run in to the pacific ocean. In fact it doesn't even make it to the ocean anymore. There is nothing but dry river bed at the oceans delta now. Drought or no drought the Colorado is being wasted and over stressed by developement and growth beyond it's capacity to supply. This is a wake up call to all the states using the Colorado and a conference seems to be in order if anyone cares. Loss of the Colorado water also means loss of electrical power, especially to southern California and Las Vegas. Will these areas return to desert dust? Could happen if they don't control and restrict growth. There is a limit to all things, including growth and the available resources to supplement that growth. Once the growth peak has been reached and non replenishable resources are gone there is nothing left but the renaturalization of the affected area. Growth and demand cannot exceed resources and expect to survive, it's now time to put growth and resources on the front page.

Anonymous | 5:09 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Sounds a lot like a fear tactic is being used here by those who support the bogus science of global warming. Just wait and see how things go over the next few years before we get excited.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 5:58 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

"scientists" are complete idiots. Every time they get into the predicting business they flop on their heads. These goofy predictions never come close to being correct; I'm amazed the press even bothers to print them anymore, since they end up looking foolish too.

Let's take this year's winter, in the west. The "experts" all predicted a warmer than normal, drier than normal winter. Oops, they were all way, way off; it's been colder than normal, and way wetter than normal.

David Decker | 6:43 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Two comments:
(1) Headline should read, "Authorities disagree over odds that Lake Powell will dry up" You put the negative study in headline i.e. New York Times tactics

(2) Desnews should start editorial campaign for nuclear power plants now; plus longterm solutions for water problem. "Do your job" -the Trib won't

Consistency is comforting | 6:59 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

There's three things you can count on every year ...

1) "Experts" predict a warmer, dryer winter
2) "Experts" predict a more intense hurricane season
3) "Experts" predict a terrible holiday shopping season

Of course these things don't happen but at least we can get comfort from the consistency of them being predicted every year.

St. George | 6:56 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

This is why our Federal, State and Local representatives need to work together on great infrastructure projects. EVER HERE OF NAWAPA North American Water and Power Alliance

St. George | 6:57 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

They will wait until it is too late, they will wait until people die and grops fail, they will wait until our economy can no longer afford these projects.

NAWAPA NOW

Anonymous | 7:00 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Scientists are just people made up to scare conservatives, similar to universal health care or Al Gore.
This is all hooey. Let's wait, yes, that's a good idea. God will intervene, and allow us to add infinitely more poeple to an increasingly dry area, i assume in our efforts to 'repopulate' the earth. Acting on this now would be silly.

Man, are we dumb.

Anonymous | 7:00 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

We are having record snow this year and this story comes out. Global Warming is just anoter way for the goverment to tax us. It will be coming. Socialism is slavery.

Confused | 7:09 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I've never understood why people live in such dry places. You know it's a desert but you just assume engineers will figure out a way of sustaining your life. The government must start heavily taxing businesses so they won't locate in these locations. It just doesn't make sense to have people living in Nevada, Utah, and Arizona when this country has so much fertile land throughout all the other states that will easily sustain life.

stephencpace | 7:10 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The government official who says they are "committed" to not letting the reservors dry up reminds me of our local politicians who made it illegal for the Great Salt Lake to flood in the '80s.

What ever | 7:21 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The sky is falling, the sky is falling. We are all going to die!!!
Report that. Has the same amount of credibility!
PS - I have surplus football helmets for sale.

Concerned | 7:27 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Just how long do you so called experts that say we don't have water issues facing us in the near future, think we can continue this uncontrolled growth in desert and arrid southern regions without major problems? I live in Washington county in southern Utah and I'll guarantee that without controlled growth by cities in this area and others in states south of here, you will definetly either run out of water or the price for water will be so high that not many will be able to afford it very soon. I have spent alot of time in the Phoenix area also the last 20 years and no one will recongize the need for limited yearly growth. GREED, GREED, GREED by developers, contractors, financial Co's is out of control.

seelynne | 7:32 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

It is about time builder's take a look at what they are doing in Las Vegas. I was born there in 1940. Las Vegas needs to put a long freeze on building. Let the people enjoy Lake Mead. Too many hotels, houses, schools, businesses, green grass yards - take a break Las Vegas.We used to dig a hole in our backyard and wait until the flash floods came in the summer - the hole would fill up with water and we would jump in. Water is a precious commodity. People should think about that when they wash their cars, brush their teeth, etc. I used to ride my bike down to 15th and Oakey and catch polliwogs in the natural spring pond. Doesn't Las Vegas mean many meadows or springs - There were springs all over the valley when I was a kid. Lake Mead is a half-hour drive from Vegas. Take your kids and go swimming there. We used to - because there weren't any swimming pools in the 40's. GIVE LAS VEGAS A BREAK!!! STOP THE BUILDING.

Hope it happens | 7:47 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

What we ought to do is beat it to the punch, go nuclear for electricity and drain Lake Powell now. It is covering so much beauty. As far as the water goes, people who live in deserts should act like it. Instead, we want our yards and cities in the desert to look like those in Canada (with the exception of palm trees). If the Glen Canyon dam were never put in in the first place, we would still be doing just fine.

Global warming | 7:55 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Global warming??? can someone please explain why we have so much snow and the whole country has been frozen for the last few months? This morning walking to work I thought I was going to freeze to death...and the city to the west of me had so much water from rain/snow/sleet that they had to close the highways down...I live on the east coast, but looking at the Utah ski report (greatest snow on earth...I must add), doesn't seem like you are going to have issues with water this year either??? Just a thought.

Dave | 8:05 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Over-plopulation is caused by builders and developers? Wow they must be real busy at night.

BBKing | 8:08 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Centralized planning has a beauty all its own. When reality gets in the way, like the writer whining about people living in the desert, just eliminate the people. That is what countries like China and USSR did when people got in the way of the centralized plans. Holy cow do some of the writers on this blog scare me!

As for the prediction of these "experts" I think they have been exposed enough. How pathetic. So they take a snap shot in time, and proceed under the presumption of "modeling" and voila, no more rain.

Sadly, we have to wait until 2013 to show how clueless this prediction is.

For all of you structured economic, quasi-communust thinkers out there, can I make you sad?! The free market just made a big breakthrough yesterday.

Some scientists pattened and held a press conference on some mico-threads (1000 times smaller than a human hair) that when moved around generate electricity. They have to solve on issue about water damage but once solved they can put these threads in clothes and the clothes will generate enough electricty to power cell phones, I-pods, etc. Charge your phone into your shirt.

Free markets will work!

Y2K | 8:09 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Sounds like Y2K all over again. Hope it happens why don't you just buy a boat!!

Solution | 8:17 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

how about California ramp up thier production of fresh water from the Ocean. Seriously they need to invest in harvesting fresh water from a salty source. That would take a big demand off the Colorado river!

Factmonger | 8:36 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

This article is nothing but fearmongering and speculation with no factual basis, only guesses (models). The forecast ignores the decade-long drought cycle that comes and goes in the West, and which may be coming to an end (they can't even predict that). In fact, related recent articles about reduced snowpack and shorter ski seasons are tied to the drought, not to some longer, scarier trend. The tie to global warming has no basis in fact.

lush lawns | 8:31 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I'm going to laugh when all the "we have plenty of water and if we don't God will provide so keep building in the desert" crowd whine when they lose their golf courses and have to xeriscape.
Even if global warming doesn't exist you can't keep adding millions of people drinking from one river without conservation efforts and expect the supply not to get stretched at some point. Better to develop plan "B" and have it if you need it than suddenly find your tap will only be on for 3 hours a day down the road.

Make Lake Powell bigger... | 8:33 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

let's install a 60 foot addition to Glen Canyon Dam so that I can wake board underneath Rainbow Bridge. That would be awsome!

Hmmmm. | 8:39 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Sounds like another research study funded by the "sierra club". We might as well drain the Lake now so all the left-wing nut job - hippies can enjoy Glen Canyon the way it used to be.

Getting the right facts | 8:54 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To all of the simple minds out there who think the signs of changing weather patterns must be off because we have record snow- If you actually read about the impact of human behavior on the environment, instead of only listening to the distilled rhetoric from Limbaugh, Hannity and Co., you would know that a change in weather patterns, and extreme weather, both hot and cold, are the signs of excess CO2 in the atmosphere. The fact that we have extremely low temperatures in parts of the country are signs to be alarmed, not to put your feet up and think all is well after all.

Experts are Dumb | 8:55 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I am so sick and tired of stupid experts and the credibility that the media gives them. The track record of these so called "experts" is dismal. None of you experts supporters can name one single solitary instance when the experst were correct in their predictions. Every five years experts predict that the Kennecot copper mine will be mined out in another 5 years. Could the need arise to chnage the way we manage water? yes. But to say that river will run dry is silly.

to Hmmmm. | 8:39 | 9:00 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Considering it was a San Diego study, it's more likely an attempt to get the "toilet to tap" water recycling effort the voters keep rejecting there through over and above their protests since San Diego keeps building and can't get more Colorado water.. "Toilet to tap" is up and running in the OC, and if the "Real Housewives of Orange County" have to deal with it, there must be some sort of shortage going on.

Barry | 9:38 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I wonder which way the climate is changing. I've got 12 inches of global warming on my front lawn. I do think that we need to be more conservation-minded with our water, but I think the dates and predictions are a little off. If we could get Las Vegas to turn-off her water usage, along the strip, the lakes would last 100's of years longer.

jfrazier | 9:38 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Nothing but pure pie in the sky speculation. I have made a living working in the area of computer modeling and I know how uncertain these models are.

There is a bit of irony in the situation we find ourselves. While it is true we should conserve, there are laws that prevent people from conserving in some areas. There are laws that say how much lawn we must have, and those with irrigation water rights often must use them or they will be confiscated.

How many times... | 9:44 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

...have I heard something like this?

When Lake Powell was completed in the early 60's, it was the conventional wisdom that it would NEVER fill completely.

Which is why in 1983 the Bureau of Reclamation was caught off guard and almost saw the lake overflow the dam; they didn't think it was possible, so they didn't plan for it.

Interestingly enough, according to the 30-year precipitation averages for each decade since 1930 the climate of every state in the Colorado river basin has been getting wetter, not drier.

Including this winter; the snowpack in the upper Colorado basin is approximately 110-140% of normal.

Freezing | 9:47 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Reminds me of the "experts" who gave us an impending ice age not long ago. So much for the "experts."

Times change quickly | 10:03 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

A few years ago environmentalists were protesting and pushing to have Lake Powell and Lake Mead drained (probably using reasearch from scientists in their arguements). Now we are up in arms that nature may do it for us?

I'm not a global-warming doubter, but I don't give much creadence to some individuals, like this guy and the lady who predicted in the DMN that her research indicates the oceans will shortly be turning to acid. Sounds too Hollywood to me.

I agree with those who point out that local weather(like deep snow in Utah or NY) doesn't "disprove" what the global-warming deciples are saying.

I also agree with those who point out that scientists are terrible at predicting things like local weather treands. Every year after Katrina we've had predictions of increasingly worse hurricane seasons in the US (7-or-more). Both years that followed... not one serious storm hit the US.

Just an illustration of how off they can be when they try to predict specific treands.

The impact of men and industry on the environment in general is fairly obvious to me, but that doesn't mean I drink the coolaid whenever one of these scientists publishes his brilliant predictions.

Factmonger | 10:00 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To "Getting the right facts," please show me the evidence that CO2 drives climate, and I'll side with you. The fact is, no such evidence exists. CO2 is a minor gas, 97% of which is produced naturally. It becomes more abundant when the climate is warm, and less when the climate cools--AFTER the temperature change.

Those facts alone decidedly pull the rug out from under the entire global warming myth.

I don't make up these facts. I got them from notable climate scientists around the world, some of whom are part of the IPCC.

To "Experts are Dumb": Your generalization is a dangerous one. Doing your homework and seeking some education will help you see and understand the good science.

Matthew | 10:02 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Here's a prediction based on science. Some uninformed person sitting in front of a collection of glass, plastic, metals etc. can wiggle his fingers and hands just right and make a message appear to hundreds, thousands, or sometimes even millions!

Are scientists allows right or perfect? No. Is the life of every reader of the Deseret Morning News very very different because they are right often enough? Absolutely.

Anyone stupid enough to be using the internet and still claim that scientists and experts have a "dismal" record is so totally clueless it boggles the mind

The problem is that too many such people (the clueless) are pretending to be experts and scientists that it is hard to separate truth from fiction.

If you have a brain, use it instead of emotion/impulse based opinion.

Flango | 10:02 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Hey "Hope it happens" sorry to sink your boat but Nuclear power plants use the same amount of water as conventional plants they too are steam plants. And yes I know what I am talking about I work at one.

And for all you renewable now folks do a little research and you will find that Solar and Wind are not competitive in price per KWH with conventional generation, don't work when the wind is not blowing or the sun is not shining and must be backed up with conventional generation so your lights don't go out.

taking a stand | 10:07 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Are these the same "scientist" that told us without a doubt we would be in an ice age by now? I'm tired of environmentalist pushing their own agenda with fear propaganda. Our forests are burning down or being infested with beetles because we haven't managed them and have been forced into hands-off policies, we've changed our lifestyles to protect the ozone, we're changing our lifestyles now because of global warming and companies and someone's getting rich of 'carbon credits" and it's not the government. There is a sick and twisted group of folks out there who call themselves environmentalists. That is now a dirty word for me. The last thing they are concerned about is the envrironment. I believe in taking care of the environment but not with faulty science and fear.

Josh Callister | 10:11 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Glen Canyon is far more beautiful with a lake in it than it would be once said lake is drained. think of the worst bathtub ring you have ever seen. it would take a millenia for the canyon to look even remotely like it did before the river was damed. so you environmentalist quacko's who want everything back to the way it was, will be truly shocked if you get you wish. The truth of the matter is that the lake is slowly filling up with sediment...just look at Hite Marina, however it will take many MANY years before the entire lake would be mud, and we can solve these problems. Global Warming is a farce and people who believe it seriously just conveniently overlook the historical record! we are not puppets nor are we stupid!! try reading the historical record without your political goggles, morons.

Nukes need water! | 10:15 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

For all the "expert" bloggers here who are demanding that we go nuclear, remember that nuclear power needs water to function. In the southeast now, the drought has reduced the electricity output of the nuclear plants because everybody is demanding the water to drink, grow crops, water golf courses, etc. What we need is energy that doesn't require water (or an incredibly expensive safety infrastructure), like wind and solar!

Ernest T. Bass | 10:29 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

We can only hope it will be dried up.
Glen Canyon is a buried gem.
It's not like we can expect anyone in this state to conserve water so it will serve them right.

Riverroach | 10:25 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I wasn't going to comment on this thread because most of you did such a great job of saying what I would say.
Then I read the stupid post from GETTING THE RIGHT FACTS. Well mr/mrs facts, you should work on trying to live up to your handle.
It is truly amazing. The predictors back in the 70's said we were headed for another ice age. When that prediction failed to materialize they came up with global warming, as that has been shown to be a crock of crap, they have now moved to climate change.
Wow, what a great concept. Guess what, climate changes!! Now these brilliant predictors can't lose.
If it is warm, it is climate change. If it is cold, it is climate change!! WOW! BRILLIANT!!
What is truly amazing is how many people are falling for this crap!
The Colorado River Basin is getting so much snow this year that they could be having to put up plywood on the dam like they had to do back in 1983. There is a prediction for the predictors. Does anyone remember that? Probably not.

FREE THE CARBON!
JJ Suprise
Sandy
Proud RiverBircher!
Ron Paul for President!!!

George Hayduke | 10:42 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

At one time crops could be grown in N. Africa where now there is nothing but desert. At one time there were millions of acres of hardwood forests across what is now the US, now all gone. Buffalo roamed the plains by the millions, now gone. Elk and deer lived on the plains and are now pushed into the mountains. The rivers ran clear and clean, lakes were pristene, the skies were clear. Now the rivers and lakes are filled with waste and the skies clouded by pollution. The problem isn't "Global Warming".....that's just a term. The problem is mankind. Specifically a group of mankind that refuses to take responsibility for overpopulating, is greedy, only cares about material things, and uses their religion to rationalize away their irresponsible behavior. This group of people is fouling our planet. However, the planet will always be here, it will just be uninhabitable for the people who ruin it. I say bring it on, destroy the planet for you children and grandchildren. I don't care. I've decided not to procreate and am fine with it. Do what you will and then call on your God to save you. Have a nice day.

taxpayer99999 | 10:44 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The next time someone in these desert climates are thirsty for a drink, I hope they think about the experiments the government likes to try by letting millions of gallons of water out of the dam to test effects on the environment.

The dependant states need to mandate the water level in these reservoirs stay above a certain point and enforce building moratoriums any time it drops below said level.

PP | 10:47 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

"Getting the right facts" claims that "both hot and cold, are the signs of excess CO2 in the atmosphere"

This has to be my favorite argument of all time. In other words you are trying to say no matter what happens I can still scare everyone with the global warming lie. And GTRF starts the post by saying others that actualy look at facts have "simple minds"

In science if there is evidence that does not fit the hypothesis (global warming via CO2) then you need to retink the hypothesis. Well there is tons of evidence that discounts the CO2 theory yet all thoes that bow at Al Gores altar totaly ignore it. In fact, at least 1/2 of Gores "Facts" prove that CO2 does not cause global warming but no one in his crowd is willing to do any real science. It is exactly what the Catholic church did about Isaic Newton a few hundred years ago.

Mark Whitney | 11:03 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Hey, guys, this Lake stuff is nothing. The real crisis is that global warming has killed Nessie, the Loch Ness Monster. I kid you not, I just read it today, and if someone printed it it must be true.
Seriously, how can these dweebs keep making these pathetic prognostications and continue to call themselves scientists? And I pity further the masses who gobble it up.
Mark Whitney
Sandy

Typical Utah | 11:10 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

people like BaBy King downplaying the inevitable..yet this state is one of the most trashed out states..from rocket fuel left-overs messing kids up, to uranium being moved through towns with dust still blowing down main street, high amounts of cancer in aquifers tainted by mining, more electrical power plants being built, high levels of mercury in lakes here and blown over to Colorado..can't even eat the fish. And you tell me you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction!

whatever | 11:43 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I am horrified by the callous indifference some have shown to the major crisis of global warming. Don't people know that simply because it is in the newspaper, it is absolutely true and scientists never come to incorrect conclusions?
I am sure Lake Powell will dry up just like the Y2K bug destroyed the civilized world and blood-letting cured all disease. This is called sarcasm: I mention it in order to illustrate how environmental hysteria actually harms discussion of legitimate probelms.

Mark Whitney | 11:41 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Typical Utah
Wow! Scary. Maybe you had better move to somewhere safer. I know I would feel a whole lot safer if you did.
MW
S

Ron Paul supporter | 11:56 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Ron Paul will save us! Ron Paul has the answers to everything and we shall no perish. Ron Paul will figure out a way. Vote Ron Paul for President and save lake Powell.

Chicken Little | 11:53 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

It's no big deal. We'll be dead form the hone in the ozone or those killer bees long before the lakes dry up.

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