Reader comments
New Harmony: Current focus concentrates on retaining LDS members
506 comments | Read story
Clifton | 10:26 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Early last year, I had the opportunity to be a member although briefly in the
San Antonio Texas High Country Ward. On my first day there, and like I always
do arrived about 15 minutes early before the start of the service, I walked into
the Chapel in sort of get a feel for the building and and lay of the Land. When
I walked in, I noticed some people upon the stand in front of the Chapel. I had
been in there less tnan 3 minutes when this great big Man walked down to greet
me. It was the Bishop and we exchanged greetings/ I told him my purpose for
being there, and he went straight to the Clerks office, pulled up my records,
and 15 minutes later was read in as a welcomed new member of the Ward. The
chapel was filled from from to back during the service, and I would assume about
350 people were there. Some members welcomed me while others did not, nor did I
expect them to line up in a long line to do so. Were my feelings hurt? Not a
chance!
Re: Just Me | 10:31 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Thanks, I can appreciate you.
In active
In active
Maybe this will help? | 10:26 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Eliminate the busy work and things that aren't doctrinal.
3 hour classes were a pain when I was in college, almost as bad at Church.
Why make an issue of ear rings and tattoos?
Why insist on white shirts?
Let the ladies wear flip flops.
In short, lighten up!!!
3 hour classes were a pain when I was in college, almost as bad at Church.
Why make an issue of ear rings and tattoos?
Why insist on white shirts?
Let the ladies wear flip flops.
In short, lighten up!!!
Comments continue below
To Ex-Mo | 10:28 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Your short comment reveals that you were never an LDS member or, if you were, it
was for only a short time. It is your language and phrasing that gives you away.
In these comments, anyone can play any role--even a dishonest one. I sincerely
hope any term you may have had in the church would have taught you to think more
about using your moral agency in this life rather than less. I chanllenge you to
find another group of people that are providing the same per capita amount of
humanitarian aid and services.
Clifton | 10:41 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Can't help but notice the lame reasons why people left the Church, and
quite frankly I don't care why they did, whether it be self pity, hurt
feelings, greed, or otherwise.
A few years back,I met a former Bishop who lived across the street from me., He was inactive, and a member of my Ward. To be fair, when I met him, he seemed like decent enough fellow, and by all that I had heard, he was inactive because he had gone through a messy divorce and for some reason held a grudge against the Church. I being a much older man and his Ward Clerk, he being a practicing Dentist. Now, I don't condemn him, but he would never allow home teachers in for a visit; my front lawn was very steep, while he would help his neighbors on both side of him and neighbors on my side of me, never once did he offer to help me. Not that it matters. I pretty much can help myself, but I woulf have appreciated an offer anyway. So my point here is that that like so many who have posted here, he rejected offers to help him!
A few years back,I met a former Bishop who lived across the street from me., He was inactive, and a member of my Ward. To be fair, when I met him, he seemed like decent enough fellow, and by all that I had heard, he was inactive because he had gone through a messy divorce and for some reason held a grudge against the Church. I being a much older man and his Ward Clerk, he being a practicing Dentist. Now, I don't condemn him, but he would never allow home teachers in for a visit; my front lawn was very steep, while he would help his neighbors on both side of him and neighbors on my side of me, never once did he offer to help me. Not that it matters. I pretty much can help myself, but I woulf have appreciated an offer anyway. So my point here is that that like so many who have posted here, he rejected offers to help him!
Thomas | 11:14 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
To those of you who indicate you left of your own free will and don't want
to be "re-activated": the Church will never force you to return. In
the end, regardless of any efforts on our parts, it is your decision and we
recognize that. We do ask, however, that you will allow us to continue to
associate with you, even if you don't want to come back into activity.
After all, you are still our neighbors and (we hope) our friends. We want you
to know that you will always be welcome back. But the choice will always be
yours. In the meantime, please don't shut us out completely, if only
because we live in the same part of the world and neighbors ought to get along,
regardless of religious beliefs.
Somebody Tell Me.... | 11:24 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
What gives a bishop the right to tell my wife, ex-wife now, that it is okay for
her to divorce me? The issues are between she and I, not him, and it's
none of his business. My habit of going to massage parlors and looking at porn
were my issues, not his, and they were issues to be discussed between my wife
and me. It was none of his business, but because he thought it was his business
now my kids have to suffer from a broken marriage.
Him getting involved was the last straw, and it was him who drove me away from the church. I can now go about my days free of guilt, but still angry that he encouraged my wife to leave me.
Him getting involved was the last straw, and it was him who drove me away from the church. I can now go about my days free of guilt, but still angry that he encouraged my wife to leave me.
Hawaiian Healer | 11:22 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
There is alot of 3-hour mormonism in utah. How do I know this because of my
profession as a healer. I hear people speak at fast and testimony meetings about
how important their family is, yet I have family members crying in a session
because how 2 faced their spouse or parent is, wanting to look the part to the
neighbors, yet being this other person when not in their church role..We are all
human and have to remember that. Don't do your callings because you have to
do them, do your callings because you love the people your working with and
helping out.. If you watched the movie "Mormons and Mobsters" who are
you? Are you like the man and wife who reached out to the new family or are you
like the women who said "He let a fox with our precious sheep?" Who
was showing God's love? As a convert who lived out in the mission field I
have a special place in my heart for the missionaries, but it is time ALL
MEMBERS treated each other like the brothers and sisters we claim we do
now | 11:29 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
if i would just get off my illegal behind!
Clifton | 11:32 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Anonymous | 4:45 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008
"Concentrating on retaining LDS members?"
Why not just concentrate just leaving them the (blank) alone
As a home teacher, I have run across many like you, and I did just that. I have also been a Ward Executive Secretary and have been witness to many so-called inactives who show up at Church when they were in a bind and needed something.
A woman with a live in jail bird boyfriend, is mad at the Bishop because he won't honor her Mother's request that the Church pay her daughter's boyfriend's bail to get him out of Jail
Visited a family one cold day; Woman answers door all dressed in black, black fingernails and lipstick--in short, she says she is a witch. Husband, an Elder, wants to leave the Church because some Bishop slighted him in another Ward. I whip out a sheet of paper, ask him to write down his desire, date and sign it. I deliver it to the Bishop, and with in two weeks this guy is gone to persue other interests.
Leave em alone? You bet!
"Concentrating on retaining LDS members?"
Why not just concentrate just leaving them the (blank) alone
As a home teacher, I have run across many like you, and I did just that. I have also been a Ward Executive Secretary and have been witness to many so-called inactives who show up at Church when they were in a bind and needed something.
A woman with a live in jail bird boyfriend, is mad at the Bishop because he won't honor her Mother's request that the Church pay her daughter's boyfriend's bail to get him out of Jail
Visited a family one cold day; Woman answers door all dressed in black, black fingernails and lipstick--in short, she says she is a witch. Husband, an Elder, wants to leave the Church because some Bishop slighted him in another Ward. I whip out a sheet of paper, ask him to write down his desire, date and sign it. I deliver it to the Bishop, and with in two weeks this guy is gone to persue other interests.
Leave em alone? You bet!
Clifton | 11:35 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I miss it... | 10:23 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Gee miss it, how can we ever thank you? Especially the sound of your flip-flops! Much happiness to you!
Gee miss it, how can we ever thank you? Especially the sound of your flip-flops! Much happiness to you!
Rule of Law | 12:03 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
This desire for "retention" is motivated by money, and is corrupting
the Church.
Take illegal immigrants, for example. They are violating the laws of the nation. And just as with anyone who violates the laws of the nation in which they live, they are NOT "being honest in [their] dealings with their fellowman".
Moreover, they are "supporting, affiliating with, or agreeing with groups or individuals whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," which officially teaches that we are to be "subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law" (Pearl of Great Price, Article of Faith 12).
Therefore, being an illegal immigrant disqualifies them from Temple worthiness, and any Church authority who knowingly grants temple recommends to illegal immigrants is violating Church doctrine as well as acting as an accessory to a criminal act.
Statements by Church authorities supporting illegal immigration and exempting themselves from "enforcement" are repugnant to we who believe in the rule of law and the Constitution of this great nation. This is corruption and ecclesiastical apostasy.
Take illegal immigrants, for example. They are violating the laws of the nation. And just as with anyone who violates the laws of the nation in which they live, they are NOT "being honest in [their] dealings with their fellowman".
Moreover, they are "supporting, affiliating with, or agreeing with groups or individuals whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," which officially teaches that we are to be "subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law" (Pearl of Great Price, Article of Faith 12).
Therefore, being an illegal immigrant disqualifies them from Temple worthiness, and any Church authority who knowingly grants temple recommends to illegal immigrants is violating Church doctrine as well as acting as an accessory to a criminal act.
Statements by Church authorities supporting illegal immigration and exempting themselves from "enforcement" are repugnant to we who believe in the rule of law and the Constitution of this great nation. This is corruption and ecclesiastical apostasy.
Michael | 12:03 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I love reading about the folks who have left the church and have never been
happier. Great, I am happy for you. Get your names removed from the records of
the Church so active members do not have to waste their time with you.
Can't you just leave the Church alone or do you only feel better
broadcasting the reason for your decision to leave the faith to others. There
are tons of Catholics, Protestants etc. who have left their faiths, but I do not
see them broadcasting their viewpoints and reasons for doing so. They do not
feel the need to.
Anonymous | 12:16 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Sorry Thomas,
The LDS practice exclusion at all times.
Even amongst their own.
The LDS practice exclusion at all times.
Even amongst their own.
Former Saint | 12:18 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I left the Church after more than 30 years, service in a Stake Presidency, a
Temple Marriage, a full-time mission (AP), and numerous other callings, for one
reason and one reason only: Through the Spirit of God, I came to know that the
LDS Church is NOT what it claims to be. It is NOT "True".
How could a Church be true if it passes off as "historical" a book that is clearly a work of fiction (The Book of Mormon)? How can it be true if it continues to dominate the lessons and teachings to its members with "follow the Brethren" rather than "follow Christ"? How can it be true if it's "fruits" by which it has become known are fruits of intolerance (against gays, non-members, inactives), judgmental-ism, tearing families apart, excommunicating those who engage in honest scholarly efforts simply because they won't COMPLY with fiat and authority? How can it be true if it hypocritically condemns all other religions for various sins and corruption, but then manifests the exact same sins and corruption itself? How can it be true if the teachings of some so-called "prophets" contradict the teachings of others? The list could go on...
How could a Church be true if it passes off as "historical" a book that is clearly a work of fiction (The Book of Mormon)? How can it be true if it continues to dominate the lessons and teachings to its members with "follow the Brethren" rather than "follow Christ"? How can it be true if it's "fruits" by which it has become known are fruits of intolerance (against gays, non-members, inactives), judgmental-ism, tearing families apart, excommunicating those who engage in honest scholarly efforts simply because they won't COMPLY with fiat and authority? How can it be true if it hypocritically condemns all other religions for various sins and corruption, but then manifests the exact same sins and corruption itself? How can it be true if the teachings of some so-called "prophets" contradict the teachings of others? The list could go on...
To Clifton | 12:18 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Clifton,
Quit trying to characterize everyone that doesn't attend your church as some kind of wacko.
Quit trying to characterize everyone that doesn't attend your church as some kind of wacko.
Trying to be helpful | 12:28 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Actions do speak louder than words. I have a relative who works with folks
getting out of prison. She says the hardest church to work with is the LDS
church. Bishops won't return her calls, tell her not to bother them with
these people, won't help at all. I work in the Addiction Recovery Program
and cry with those who have been ostracized by those in the Church. To many
members, those who are addicted are like lepers, people to be shunned. Not all
of course, but too many.
The Savior said that the well have no need of a doctor, but those who are sick.
The Savior said that the well have no need of a doctor, but those who are sick.
Running Fish | 12:32 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Retention has to begin with treating members as if their intelligence and
experience counts for something. I am tired of going to leadership meetings
that are completely monopolized by at most three people while men and women of
great experience, ability, and faith are expected to sit quietly and take it all
in. We need to discuss, really discuss, what needs to be done to make the
Church stronger. Most of the programs that come down from the heirarchy are
ineffective (e.g. "The Nauvoo Five"). Local leaders and members are
close to the real issues on the ground. Trust us to address them rather than
shutting us down pre-emptively. We have too many leaders who want to run the
Church like the military or like they are MBA's working for a Fortune 500
company. When the Savior called His disciples they were told to be ministers
and servants. If we had more leaders like that we wouldn't have to worry
about retention so much. One final thought: Those who have left primarily over
cultural and leadership issues, why not come back so that we will have a better
chance of changing the culture from within? We need you!
Louis | 12:52 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I don't attend church because is is boring and it is for families. if one
is middle age and alone we have to sit alone and the services are family
oriented. I also hope John Lambert gets the help he needs.
Doubting Thomasina | 12:54 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Too many LDS people assume those who leave or go inactive were offended or
decided they wanted to live a life of sin. No one offended me. I did not want to
suddenly engage in a life of sin . I was a fervant convert. I had a testimony of
Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon that I thought would never burn out. I
married in the temple to a fellow convert. I put some niggling questions in the
back of my mind--then one day I had to face them, to research them out -- yes,
even to "think and pray." 30 years of tithing, service, and raising a
family in the church, I discovered what a fraud the church is and that the BOM
is a work of fiction.
Am I living a life of sin now? Nope. Do my Mormon freinds and neighbors offend me? Nope.
Leave us in peace.
Am I living a life of sin now? Nope. Do my Mormon freinds and neighbors offend me? Nope.
Leave us in peace.
To Michael | 12:57 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
You express an attitude that makes me not want to belong. When you say,
"Get your names removed from the records of the Church so active members do
not have to waste their time with you" it makes me feel like the only
reason Mormons might care about someone else is if they going to be active
members.
Doesn't sound very Christ-like to me.
Doesn't sound very Christ-like to me.
Not of God | 1:05 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I am a active member but this blog has made me wonder if I want to remain a
member. There seems to be very little compassion on here for those who have
left. I see a lot of coldness and hate towards others. I have always look for
spiritual things in my life and I certainly see nothing spiritual coming from
active members on here--What a shame! I think there needs to be some repenting
from active members as well. Maybe you are also on your way out with your
horrible attitudes! Maybe you are the reason some have left the church. I can
certainly understand from hateful members on here why some choose to leave.
Just 3 words | 1:01 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Rigid, rigid, rigid -- it just doesn't work for most of us.
Edward | 1:03 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
To: Greg @ 5:36 PM, Feb 14
Your comments were well presented.
You displayed great writing ability.
I would like to question the ASSUMPTIONS, and the "name calling" however.
Just because someone chooses to follow (someone
more experienced in life) Does Not meanthey are not
thinking for themselves. Example: it's usually a
good practice to read and FOLLOW the instruction manual, than to do ALL the thinking yourself, when wants to repair a car or a computer. Those who wrote the manual are MORE EXPERIENCED with the needed info!
It's EASY to get wrapped up in one's own EGO.
The Church in its "retention" goal is desiring
to keep the door open for communication. The
Church, when the program is done right, is like a Parent (or family) that is honestly caring about its members. It follows the loving example of Jesus.
To group the LDS/Mormon with Scientology is a bit
bizarre!! Don't see the commonality there -- just some more "name calling" that probably came from
some literature that "TRASHES" other people's beliefs. The other groups usually "trashed" you didn't mention like Jehovah's Witnesses, 7th day Adventists, etc, etc, etc.
To be continued>>
Your comments were well presented.
You displayed great writing ability.
I would like to question the ASSUMPTIONS, and the "name calling" however.
Just because someone chooses to follow (someone
more experienced in life) Does Not meanthey are not
thinking for themselves. Example: it's usually a
good practice to read and FOLLOW the instruction manual, than to do ALL the thinking yourself, when wants to repair a car or a computer. Those who wrote the manual are MORE EXPERIENCED with the needed info!
It's EASY to get wrapped up in one's own EGO.
The Church in its "retention" goal is desiring
to keep the door open for communication. The
Church, when the program is done right, is like a Parent (or family) that is honestly caring about its members. It follows the loving example of Jesus.
To group the LDS/Mormon with Scientology is a bit
bizarre!! Don't see the commonality there -- just some more "name calling" that probably came from
some literature that "TRASHES" other people's beliefs. The other groups usually "trashed" you didn't mention like Jehovah's Witnesses, 7th day Adventists, etc, etc, etc.
To be continued>>
re: guymon and Jason | 1:32 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Jason - nmot self-righteous sir-- not by any stretch. You sound like one of
those who hears something likes it - so you regurgitate it over and over as if
it were your own thought.
RE: Guymon - Glad to hear you are happier. As I stated ... people leave the church IMO - for a few reasons. Either you never really believed it in the 1st place, or you couldn't live up to the demands. Happiness is living in accordance with what you believe. again - you cant believe the WoW and drink and be happy. You will feel guilt, failure, sorrow, etc.. so either you adjust our beliefs and decide you don't believe the WoW or you stop drinking. One of the two has to happen. For me -- faith is what it is--hope of things not seen or KNOWN. Some DNA evidence or how I am treated won't effect me. I wont let another person determine my salvation (save JC).. My behavior patterns or sins will affect me, either I will feel sorrow and repent or perhaps I will change my beliefs and be happy. hard to change those though...
RE: Guymon - Glad to hear you are happier. As I stated ... people leave the church IMO - for a few reasons. Either you never really believed it in the 1st place, or you couldn't live up to the demands. Happiness is living in accordance with what you believe. again - you cant believe the WoW and drink and be happy. You will feel guilt, failure, sorrow, etc.. so either you adjust our beliefs and decide you don't believe the WoW or you stop drinking. One of the two has to happen. For me -- faith is what it is--hope of things not seen or KNOWN. Some DNA evidence or how I am treated won't effect me. I wont let another person determine my salvation (save JC).. My behavior patterns or sins will affect me, either I will feel sorrow and repent or perhaps I will change my beliefs and be happy. hard to change those though...
To MW | 1:38 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
"One may notice that all comments coming from those who have left the
church or are against it's teachings basically state that they are happy
now or have found peace (in this life). Not one of them here mentions that they
expect to be happy, or at peace in the next life (after death)."
OK, I'll mention it. Personally, I expect to be worm food after death. But other former Mormons that I know, people who believe in God and in an afterlife of some kind, fully expect to be happy and at peace in the next life. The same is true for many people who were never Mormon at all.
OK, I'll mention it. Personally, I expect to be worm food after death. But other former Mormons that I know, people who believe in God and in an afterlife of some kind, fully expect to be happy and at peace in the next life. The same is true for many people who were never Mormon at all.
Sue | 1:41 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Anonymous,
You say that Jerry Johnson 'attacked' inactive members of the church by saying that they needed a lifepreserver. Really? I didn't read anger or hatred towards inactives. Did you? In fact he is acting very Christ-like. Remember the story of the lost sheep?
You are attacking our faith and beliefs. Why? I would never disrespect my old Baptist faith and do what you are doing. I disagree with them on many, many issues. They tried for a long time to get me to return to their fold. I didn't think they hated me, but rather loved me.
I'm a convert of many years. Never lived in Utah. Have lived in VA, NC and now CA. Worked in law enforcement. My 21 yr old son was murdered. I've had many life experiences, never been a sheltered person.
One thing that has always been there for me is Jesus Christ and the gospel.
Peace Anonymous
You say that Jerry Johnson 'attacked' inactive members of the church by saying that they needed a lifepreserver. Really? I didn't read anger or hatred towards inactives. Did you? In fact he is acting very Christ-like. Remember the story of the lost sheep?
You are attacking our faith and beliefs. Why? I would never disrespect my old Baptist faith and do what you are doing. I disagree with them on many, many issues. They tried for a long time to get me to return to their fold. I didn't think they hated me, but rather loved me.
I'm a convert of many years. Never lived in Utah. Have lived in VA, NC and now CA. Worked in law enforcement. My 21 yr old son was murdered. I've had many life experiences, never been a sheltered person.
One thing that has always been there for me is Jesus Christ and the gospel.
Peace Anonymous
To Michel | 1:48 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
The reason those who leave the church wish to share their decision with other
mormons is to help them know the truth and to share with them the things that
they have learned about the church that most mormon do not know. They do it
because they care about you and they believe you deserve to be treated with
respect and honesty.
to CLifton | 1:51 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Clifton - I was in that Stake for a long time growing up. Good stake -- good
ward out there in High County.
to: not of God | 1:53 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Bro if you choose to leave because of a message board then you were never there
in the first place.
Happy Member | 2:05 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Thank you LR most members do not see that an inactive or someone who left the
church, is not because they do not believe but the church is to busy to give
them an ear so that they can vent. I went to my Bishop who will intercede for
me to get her ward to come out and give her a blessing. That is what the
priesthood is all about and if they ignore her just because they are to busy
with other church activities, I feel they are slapping Heavenly Father in the
face when he knows of my friend and that she needs the church.
To WOW you are one of the problems. My friend does believe and just needs some support to get her back in get off your holier than thou stance and start being the member that the 1st presidency wants us to be.
To WOW you are one of the problems. My friend does believe and just needs some support to get her back in get off your holier than thou stance and start being the member that the 1st presidency wants us to be.
Faith, faith, faith, | 2:03 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
"Just have faith." "That's not important to your eternal
salvation." "Put that question on the shelf." "Have you
been paying your tithing, reading the scriptures and praying?"
When I asked sincere questions these were the answers I received. Not "real" answers are they?
"Faith doesn't give us the answers, it just keeps us from asking the questions." And what happens when your "shelf" finally breaks?
People like me, just wanted some "real" answers.
When I asked sincere questions these were the answers I received. Not "real" answers are they?
"Faith doesn't give us the answers, it just keeps us from asking the questions." And what happens when your "shelf" finally breaks?
People like me, just wanted some "real" answers.
To Thomas | 2:18 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
"We want you to know that you will always be welcome back. But the choice
will always be yours. In the meantime, please don't shut us out completely,
if only because we live in the same part of the world and neighbors ought to get
along, regardless of religious beliefs."
Thank you for your kind words. It is refreshing to see an active Mormon extending friendship regardless of church standing. Unfortunately, in many of our experiences, our Mormon friends and family have not been so kind. I don't know if it's deliberate (they don't want to associate with us) or not (they just feel like they don't have anything in common with us anymore). In either case, it's a shame. Leaving a worldview we've held for decades is hard enough without also having to lose all our friends and be shunned by family and neighbors in the process. I'm glad there are at least a few Mormons who can look beyond our differences in faith.
Thank you for your kind words. It is refreshing to see an active Mormon extending friendship regardless of church standing. Unfortunately, in many of our experiences, our Mormon friends and family have not been so kind. I don't know if it's deliberate (they don't want to associate with us) or not (they just feel like they don't have anything in common with us anymore). In either case, it's a shame. Leaving a worldview we've held for decades is hard enough without also having to lose all our friends and be shunned by family and neighbors in the process. I'm glad there are at least a few Mormons who can look beyond our differences in faith.
Anonymous | 2:22 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Don't you love it when Mormon brothers and sisters trash their own Mormon
brothers and sisters?
A peculiar people alright.
A peculiar people alright.
To Michael | 2:22 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
"Get your names removed from the records of the Church so active members do
not have to waste their time with you."
People don't resign from the church for several reasons. Some don't care to waste the time going through such a formality for something (church membership) that has no value to them any more. Others don't know how to go about doing it. Still others fear that if they start the process, their local ward will find them and start pestering them. It would be a simple matter for the ward to actually *not* contact people who have asked not to be contacted. Unfortunately, such requests are usually ignored, especially when the ward's or auxiliary's leadership changes hands.
People don't resign from the church for several reasons. Some don't care to waste the time going through such a formality for something (church membership) that has no value to them any more. Others don't know how to go about doing it. Still others fear that if they start the process, their local ward will find them and start pestering them. It would be a simple matter for the ward to actually *not* contact people who have asked not to be contacted. Unfortunately, such requests are usually ignored, especially when the ward's or auxiliary's leadership changes hands.
Bill | 2:24 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Honestly, I welcome all of you to leave Utah or Idaho and come anywhere in the
US. You are living in the worst possible place to be LDS. Seriously. Anyone
who is from outside and visited or lived in Utah for a while knows this.
Judge not! | 2:26 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Re 1:32 & other hypocrites!
I had a friend who left the church for his horrible health problems. If you don't wear the shoes then don't judge others. Did you miss something while attending Sunday school? Some people on here need to quit playing GOD. Looks like there are some active members on here who are following after Satan and casting many STONES! You will also be judged!! Go read...
"But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned," (Matt. 12:36).
I had a friend who left the church for his horrible health problems. If you don't wear the shoes then don't judge others. Did you miss something while attending Sunday school? Some people on here need to quit playing GOD. Looks like there are some active members on here who are following after Satan and casting many STONES! You will also be judged!! Go read...
"But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned," (Matt. 12:36).
Wonderment | 2:27 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
As a fairly new bishop, I see on the rolls of our ward many who are almost
"virulently" opposed to any contact with ward members.
I've read many of the posts here and see what appears to be many of those same attitudes among posters.
I am sincerely trying to understand why there is such anger and opposition. It seems to me if it so freeing to no longer associate with the Church, there should be less vitrol.
I've read many of the posts here and see what appears to be many of those same attitudes among posters.
I am sincerely trying to understand why there is such anger and opposition. It seems to me if it so freeing to no longer associate with the Church, there should be less vitrol.
Joe Mama | 2:46 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Re: Bill - I agree, you get the extremes on both sides in Utah. Those that are
pro-Mormon are more self-righteous, loud, egotistical and judgemental than the
por-Mormons who live outside of Utah. On the flip side, the antis are far more
anti in Utah because their decision to leave or to not be a part is always
thrown in their face. They are continuously judged and looked down upon, and
it's no wonder they grow to hate the church.
I've lived outside of Utah now for over five years and it has been a very refreshing change. The self-righteous, back-biting and judgemental attitudes do not exist. And, those that are not Mormon or who dislike the LDS church are actually quite quiet. They actually grow to respect the church more after they realize their Mormon neighbors are actually good people and somewhat likable.
The botton line is if you live in Utah, both sides are far more vocal, hateful and extreme. Contrary to popular belief, Utah is not Zion and the church is so much more enjoyable elsewhere.
I've lived outside of Utah now for over five years and it has been a very refreshing change. The self-righteous, back-biting and judgemental attitudes do not exist. And, those that are not Mormon or who dislike the LDS church are actually quite quiet. They actually grow to respect the church more after they realize their Mormon neighbors are actually good people and somewhat likable.
The botton line is if you live in Utah, both sides are far more vocal, hateful and extreme. Contrary to popular belief, Utah is not Zion and the church is so much more enjoyable elsewhere.
a nasty lot | 3:31 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
These rather nasty posts reminds me of the old saying:
"Situations don't make the Mormon - they reveal him."
"Situations don't make the Mormon - they reveal him."
BornAmerican | 3:39 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Faith is an irrational thing,or it would not BE faith.
As to 'retention',many here have said that it is up to the individual to develop a testimony based on study and prayer,and I believe that to be true,HOWEVER... I can tell you from my personal perspective that regardless of the belief being examined,nothing makes me want to disassociate from a group more quickly than to observe large numbers of professed believers acting in a fashion contrary to their professed beliefs. In this,the LDS church has a very real problem,particularly here in in Utah with its huge numbers of hereditary Mormons who may not even KNOW doctorine,let alone live it.It's been said 'every member a missionary', and while that was undoubtedly intended as an exhortation to live the faith with zeal, it also describes the negative effect of those who live lives identifiable as contrary to their professed
faith,'anti-missionaries'if you will. Each and every one of you knows someone who falls into this category,I'm sure,so perhaps it behooves you to improve the quality of the members whom you HAVE retained in order to regain the members who have 'fallen away'.Just my two cents worth.
Utah Mormon | 3:45 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Freinds,
I am in the military and have lived all over the world. Of all the places that I have lived, I have found that the most difficult place for me to live as a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of later-day saints has been Utah. I was excomunicated from the church for four years. I knew before I came to Utah that excommunication in my future, so I waited thinking that the good members of Utah might be able to help me trough my ordeal.
I am now rebaptized as a member of the church and I will soon recieve my preisthood blessing again. I look back and realize obviosely that my actions for excommunication were my fault and effected everybody around me. The only thing that I would change now, knowing what I know now, is I would have gone through that dark period of my life outside the state of Utah. It was difficult enough to go through all of that, I did not need the extra added pressure of Utah Mormon culture and ostricization. To those of you who have fallen away, I feel your pain and I love you.
I am in the military and have lived all over the world. Of all the places that I have lived, I have found that the most difficult place for me to live as a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of later-day saints has been Utah. I was excomunicated from the church for four years. I knew before I came to Utah that excommunication in my future, so I waited thinking that the good members of Utah might be able to help me trough my ordeal.
I am now rebaptized as a member of the church and I will soon recieve my preisthood blessing again. I look back and realize obviosely that my actions for excommunication were my fault and effected everybody around me. The only thing that I would change now, knowing what I know now, is I would have gone through that dark period of my life outside the state of Utah. It was difficult enough to go through all of that, I did not need the extra added pressure of Utah Mormon culture and ostricization. To those of you who have fallen away, I feel your pain and I love you.
Paul | 3:56 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I have learned 'never say never' and "err on the side of
caution." I am not all that active in the church, but I want to be an
'active' Christian. The LDS church has good foundational doctrines to
accomplish this and they make sense to me. The history of the church no longer
has any relevance for me. I don't give a hoot if Joseph Smith had 37
wives, etc. There are people who 'bother me' in the LDS church, but I
take it all in stride now. I used to get annoyed about these things, but I have
had spiritual experiences that I am not able to explain away. That's the
core issue for me notwithstanding a lot of the wrongness about the church. I
just live my life more as a Christian than a so-called 'Mormon' and
wish the 'Mormon' church all the best because it does do a lot of good
to offset all that is evil in the world. I tithe 100%, and I am no longer
worried about being 'duped.' I hope God will see the goodness in my
heart for wanting to support a Christian church be it what ever it claims to be.
Anon | 3:58 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
To: Somebody Tell me
I had a simular experience. What gives any church the right to decide if a spouce has the right to divorce? It should be the spouce's individual decision...not some church!!! I too found this souring of my feelings towards the church.
I came to this conclusion. Organized churchs are designed by men to control men. The LDS and virtually every other church I can think of, fit's this catagory if you look at it closely.
If GOD was concerned about controlling men he would do it. But God isn't concerned. He's letting us figure it out...kind of like we do with our kids when they interact with other kids.
So this BLOG is about kids learning to play with other kids. Some play well...and some are well...how should I say this....WOW!!!
I had a simular experience. What gives any church the right to decide if a spouce has the right to divorce? It should be the spouce's individual decision...not some church!!! I too found this souring of my feelings towards the church.
I came to this conclusion. Organized churchs are designed by men to control men. The LDS and virtually every other church I can think of, fit's this catagory if you look at it closely.
If GOD was concerned about controlling men he would do it. But God isn't concerned. He's letting us figure it out...kind of like we do with our kids when they interact with other kids.
So this BLOG is about kids learning to play with other kids. Some play well...and some are well...how should I say this....WOW!!!
Mormon on the run! | 4:12 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I have lived outside Utah as well, and I must say-- The church is completely
different here from outside the state. The members in Utah are hateful and mean
and quite hypocritical. I understand the large inactivity here completely. Who
in their right mind would want to be around a bunch of superior,
non-compassionate, angry people every Sunday?
I like Utah and Mormons | 4:24 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
These message boards are never a very good indication of what is actual. If I
believed the comments of the vocal minority really represented the majority of
Utah and Mormons, then I wouldn't be living in Utah. The minority paints
an ugly picture on message boards, but in real life I live in harmony with my
neighbors, oblivious to the offenses described here. I don't think people
in Utah, in general, intend to offend me, nor is it that easy to offend me,
anyway. They seem open to treat me how I want to be treated, if I tell them
nicely, rather than post my outrage anonymously.
Face to face, I like people in Utah, whether they be Mormon, not Mormon, or somewhere in between. I have lived all over the country and have a hard time finding as many good people. It is sad that a vocal few seek to nitpick at others, expecting more of them than they do themselves.
The percentage of Mormons outside Utah, who don't really live their Mormon faith, really is about the same percentage as in Utah. The difference: that small percentage in Utah is magnified, b/c it represents more people.
Face to face, I like people in Utah, whether they be Mormon, not Mormon, or somewhere in between. I have lived all over the country and have a hard time finding as many good people. It is sad that a vocal few seek to nitpick at others, expecting more of them than they do themselves.
The percentage of Mormons outside Utah, who don't really live their Mormon faith, really is about the same percentage as in Utah. The difference: that small percentage in Utah is magnified, b/c it represents more people.
Edward part 2 | 4:46 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
This is part two of response to Greg from yesterday
Feb 14 @ 5:36 PM. This Part 2 was submitted earlier today but exceeded the 200 word limit and the Deseret News "comment computer" freezes at 200 words
and drops all the words. Had to get back the rest of the day's scheduled activities. We'll try a gain to cantinue and will probably need a Part 3.
Continued...
Some University level Historians have referred to the original followers of Jesus in His day as the
"Jesus Cult". So they use that word in a non-judgemental sense. But in today's lingo it's well known that the word "cult" is a "Put Down" word with a definite negative spin. Look at the recent
political rhetoric. That's just more
"name calling".
Actually LDS/Mormons also known as RESTORED
Christianity ahs many areas of commoness with
TRADITIONAL Christianity. Just a couple of
examples:
1. Both the LDS and Catholic Churches are both
structured on "Priesthood Authority" each with a
top World leader. Priesthood gets a Big Emphasis in both!!
2. The LDS and many Protestant/evengelical rely
a lot on the "personal relationship" with the Lord
through Prayer and the Holy Spirit.
continued in part 3...
Feb 14 @ 5:36 PM. This Part 2 was submitted earlier today but exceeded the 200 word limit and the Deseret News "comment computer" freezes at 200 words
and drops all the words. Had to get back the rest of the day's scheduled activities. We'll try a gain to cantinue and will probably need a Part 3.
Continued...
Some University level Historians have referred to the original followers of Jesus in His day as the
"Jesus Cult". So they use that word in a non-judgemental sense. But in today's lingo it's well known that the word "cult" is a "Put Down" word with a definite negative spin. Look at the recent
political rhetoric. That's just more
"name calling".
Actually LDS/Mormons also known as RESTORED
Christianity ahs many areas of commoness with
TRADITIONAL Christianity. Just a couple of
examples:
1. Both the LDS and Catholic Churches are both
structured on "Priesthood Authority" each with a
top World leader. Priesthood gets a Big Emphasis in both!!
2. The LDS and many Protestant/evengelical rely
a lot on the "personal relationship" with the Lord
through Prayer and the Holy Spirit.
continued in part 3...
Respect | 4:46 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
Sad to see some who have left the church because they have been offended by
members in some way. Maybe church members could turn their attention toward
their own Christian attitudes, rather than worry about whether or not their
inactive neighbor needs to be saved. While there will always be those who are
intolerable, pompous and self-righteous, most Mormons with whom I associate are
kind and caring friends and neighbors. I left the church more than 30 years ago
(long before the internet) over historical, archeological, and scientific issues
conflicting with church statements. I believe in allowing people to worship
according to their own wishes and do not seek to tear down
other�s beliefs. But identifying oneself as a former
Catholic or Methodist is nothing like identifying oneself as a former Mormon.
The latter is subject to an endless stream of relentless
�fellowshipping� to the point of
nausea. Let�s all assume that the
�inactive� know where the nearest
church is located and could attend if they felt it was really necessary. Has
Mitt Romney�s attempt at the presidency taught us nothing?
Imagine a country where members and non-members interact with tolerance and
respect for one another�s beliefs.
Edward part 3 | 5:04 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
This is a contination of Part 2.
#2. continued from last posting..
A missionary asks his/her investigator Not to just believe because it was said by the missionary. But
rather he/she says TO (after reading and pondering) TO GO TO the Lord for a witness by the Spirit. ASK God in the Name of Jesus Christ if these things are
not true?? NOT TO just Believe, but to ASK God!
(Moroni 10:4-5).
Greg, you and all others who wonder, When was the last time that you went to the Lord God and asked??
ALL of us can Choose to have God and Jesus' influence in our lives if we want. One can also
Choose to be left alone. Those who choose to be influenced by the Spiritual generally have a more positive optimistic feeling about life and others.
In Dickens' Christmas Carol, Ebenezer Schrooge
wanted to be left alone at first. His nephew understood this concept.
It's my own thinking to CHOOSE to have the Lord
as much as possible as a personal friend. HE HAS
more expereince and knows the Bigger Picture
MUCH Better than I do.
Let's go to part 4...
#2. continued from last posting..
A missionary asks his/her investigator Not to just believe because it was said by the missionary. But
rather he/she says TO (after reading and pondering) TO GO TO the Lord for a witness by the Spirit. ASK God in the Name of Jesus Christ if these things are
not true?? NOT TO just Believe, but to ASK God!
(Moroni 10:4-5).
Greg, you and all others who wonder, When was the last time that you went to the Lord God and asked??
ALL of us can Choose to have God and Jesus' influence in our lives if we want. One can also
Choose to be left alone. Those who choose to be influenced by the Spiritual generally have a more positive optimistic feeling about life and others.
In Dickens' Christmas Carol, Ebenezer Schrooge
wanted to be left alone at first. His nephew understood this concept.
It's my own thinking to CHOOSE to have the Lord
as much as possible as a personal friend. HE HAS
more expereince and knows the Bigger Picture
MUCH Better than I do.
Let's go to part 4...
Pyrrho | 5:28 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
To Sue | 1:41 p.m.,
Why can't you see that treating someone as if they are a "lost sheep" is judgmental, arrogant, patronizing, and hurtful!?
When you self-righteous "actives" condescend to try to give a "life preserver" to the "inactives", you are treating them in a demeaning way. You are treating them as if they are somehow "drowning in sin," and THAT is what is offensive and judgmental and wrong.
Although there are some who "need help," a great many who go inactive or leave the Church do so because they DON'T NEED someone telling them what God says or trying to save their souls; they can think for themselves and save their own souls or turn to God in their own way, thank you very much.
Quit treating inactives and former members as if they are somehow morally corrupt and inferior to you. Just because you are "active" doesn't make you better than anyone else, and certainly doesn't qualify you to "reach down" and "lift them up" - as if they were "beneath" you!?
When are you going to get it?
Why can't you see that treating someone as if they are a "lost sheep" is judgmental, arrogant, patronizing, and hurtful!?
When you self-righteous "actives" condescend to try to give a "life preserver" to the "inactives", you are treating them in a demeaning way. You are treating them as if they are somehow "drowning in sin," and THAT is what is offensive and judgmental and wrong.
Although there are some who "need help," a great many who go inactive or leave the Church do so because they DON'T NEED someone telling them what God says or trying to save their souls; they can think for themselves and save their own souls or turn to God in their own way, thank you very much.
Quit treating inactives and former members as if they are somehow morally corrupt and inferior to you. Just because you are "active" doesn't make you better than anyone else, and certainly doesn't qualify you to "reach down" and "lift them up" - as if they were "beneath" you!?
When are you going to get it?
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- Mitchell called intelligent, controlling 1:19 a.m.
- Brems outlasts 2nd round of votes 1:04 a.m.
- 2 families divided over slaying 1:04 a.m.
- Teen shot in scuffle with trooper 1:03 a.m.
- Nature's Way leaving Utah County 1:03 a.m.
- 'Grandfamilies' a growing trend 12:31 a.m.
- 'Cyber Monday' sales top records 12:29 a.m.
- 2 citations issued at Y.-U. game 12:26 a.m.
- No drugs in driver of Am.F. band bus 12:15 a.m.
- Governor Mansion to begin free tours 12:14 a.m.
- Hall's pain reflects self-betrayal
- Y. student vanished in China
- Max Hall issues apology
- Utes won't respond to Hall
- Hall reprimanded by MWC
- Cougs begin bowl preparations
- Teen shot in scuffle with trooper
- Mitchell called intelligent, controlling
- Matthews passes new Jazz tests
- Daughter: Mitchell fed me my pet
- Hall mouths off about hate of Utah
898 - Cougars beat Utes in overtime481
- Max Hall issues apology379
- Hall reprimanded by MWC370
- Hall's pain reflects self-betrayal316
- Utes won't respond to Hall257
- BYU is champion of the state140
- Man trapped in Nutty Putty cave dies121
- Cave to be sealed with body inside120
- Religion in politics is tiresome110
There's a chance the BYU Cougars could be without the services of...
Latest comments
There are some games I love not on your list. Arkham Asylum for one.
Our parents made my brothers help kill and clean our rabbits before we ate...
Why would you keep it open? I would understand if there was a lot of amazing...
The government will run our health care well? Read Reader's Digest, November...
TCU stomped on the MWC so they are naturally ready to crush Florida, Alabama...
could you understand Dave Locke any more than my mom does and she is not even...
Attending the ND/BYU game 3 years ago in south bend, a couple of things stuck...
I missed the game, actually i heard a little bit of Locke on the radio (man...
quotes were good: Article was dumb and unnecessary.
I believe the art depicting Joseph looking at the plates may possibly be...
Advertisements