Deseret News | Current focus concentrates on retaining LDS members

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New Harmony: Current focus concentrates on retaining LDS members

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Ron in OC | 10:04 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008

It just doesn't change. 300 or whatever comments and it all boils down to those who left trying to convince everyone how bad they had it and how happy and free they are now, and those sweet, wholesome optimist thinking that they can say something that will bring them back.

From the top | 10:28 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008

We recently visited my brother's ward in North Salt Lake and not a single person came to us and said hello. No single person at all.

We arrived early and sat in a very conspicuous location in the chapel. I spent time in the military and have moved around alot since. The wards that succeed in activating and retaining people who have fallen away have a, "no one leaves a stranger" attitude.

That is the attitude of my current bishop and it works.

Dan | 10:42 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I was away for awhile, but for me it wasn't a happy time. It was hard going back, some people seemed cold and even vicious. But I wanted to be a part of the things the Lord was doing, so I prayed and asked for help. The Lord literally raised up friends and others who, over time, were able to care for and assist me in my spiritural education and re-intergration. It's not easy to come back, but if you really want to, the Lord will provide a way.

Maybe that's why I'm back. I wanted to come back.

Comments continue below

John Lambert | 11:20 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To the person who attacks church leaders for showing compassion to those who have fled here to escape the death squads of Guatemala and so many other things I have a few questions.
Would you advocate that church leaders reinstate the excommunication of Helmuth Hubner because he was clearly breaking the law in Germany?
Should we deney temple recomends to anyone who has ever exceeded the speed limit?
Just some questions that might start to broaden your mind. Do you want to take the gospel to every people, or do you feel that a white church is the best option?

Leave me alone! | 11:27 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008

"We cannot neglect them. We cannot leave them to stand alone. They need us ... and it is our great blessing and opportunity to afford that help."

Reading LDS members write in to the Deseret News. The Mitt event was a prime example. I realize I share not the thinest tread of commonality with Mormon Culture. It's too insular, mean spirited and petty for my liking.

I prefer sinners to saints. In my mind, man can't be god. I'm not in to decorum ether. God created man in his image, so god has a sense of humor. I'm more in to colorful tropical floral pattern shirts that gray stuffed suits.

I can see why Jesus sought out people full of imperfections. You can understand the nature of a tree by the fruit on its branches. I find the fruit of Mormonism too bitter for my tastes. I'm not seeking god's only true church. By definition that would separate me from the rest of humanity.

I was dipped in water at seven through intimidation. It was not my choice. It was not a legal contractual agreement. Please, leave me alone!

John Lambert | 11:31 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008

No one ever looses their temple reccomend for associating with apostates. It is for supporting, affiliating with and sympathzing with apostates. This is largely to make sure that people connected with polygamist groups do not get in the temple. It might be good if the church did not have to worry about this, but there are too many people who try to claim that members of these groups are actually part of the church, and it is only a public lie that they are not recognized for the church to choose any other course than to take a hard line against anyone who has support for or sees eye to eye with such apostate groups.

Golden Rule | 11:27 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008

If the holier than thou members really want to search their scriptures, I have an assignment for you. Search out the prophecies that refer to a cleansing of the church which is to come.

I would guess that God's judgement will come for lots of things and that a lot of regular self-righteous attenders are in for a surprise. That's why I pray everyday, be nice to my neighbors, and don't tailgate, so maybe I'll be on the Lord's good side.

Me | 11:35 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To confused: Don't give up. That's just what the advesary would want you to do. Oops there goes another family. HaHa . I am a survivor of just what you are going through. Keep active and serve the best you can. You'll be blessed for it. He will embrace it by your example and by the good people you serve and love. I testify to this. Be positive, love him, and what ever you do...... Never Say Never. My husband came around after a long wait. But now he is in the Bishopric and we are also sealed in the Temple. God does love you, just give him time to make things happen. A heart is simply not something you can change quickly. But, God can and will if you just give him time and your faith that he can and will make a better life for you in all things. Lean on your ward family for support. Loose yourself in serving them, and you will find yourself. God Bless You!

John Lambert | 11:33 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I know I should not respond to all the anti-Mormon grabage on the posts, still I feel I have to point something out.
The church did not teach so called "racist garbage". There was never any teaching of the church that anyone was less able to be saved. Just because some general authority said something does not make it church doctrine.
The temple ceremony changes and the Book of Mormon changes I think both strike at a problem of not realizing that God speaks to man in his own language.
I have to admit that one of the changes in the temple ceremoy I have seen alleged to have taken place for years I thought it must be untrue because it seemed the alleged non-present item was still there. I hope I have not been too explicit in what I said.
Besides that I think people need to remeber the Book of Mormon and the temple ceremonies are meant to be understood by us. As our culture and language changes so at times the words have to change. I think most of the claimed outrage changes in the Book of Mormon have to do with new meanings for words.

Best for Me | 12:02 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Our Bishop called a meeting of all the adults and then proceeded to share personal information about members of the ward. He didn't actually say the names of the "outed" people. He would say things like a single lady with two kids is having such and such problems. I'm sure NO ONE would know who he was talking about. Would you blame me for determining that I would not meet with said Bishop to discuss my personal matters (even though my personal life is pretty dull).

I'm informed here that my decision to be protective of my family's privacy means I have been "offended". Calling those who wisely do what's best for their families the "offended" is just another variation on the blame the victim mentality.

Attenders and non-attenders are neither one perfect, however, the judgementalism, self-righteousness, dogmatism and clannishness lie primarily with the clique. Choosing to avoid untrustworthy people who will gossip behind your back is completely rational and the wisest course of action for any self respecting person.

John Lambert | 11:57 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The "LDS at 11:46" single handedly convinced me the church needs to be more proactive in excommunicating people. I am tempted to say it is time for a second reformation like the one in the 1850s.
I will say that I feel the church leaders may not have gone far enough in excommunicating people in the early 1990s. It is one thing to have doubts, but to come out any accuse the church of keeping members in slavery? I can't even see how people who have such views are willing to participate in the church at all.
Really, I thnik the church leaders do a good job at keeping the church in order. However, sometimes I think the doctrine of the church is threatened by having so many people with such strong hate for the truth of the restored gospel.
I also have to say that most of the people who harp on the "historical problems of the church" have no historical sense. Yes Joseph Smith married a 16 year old, but so did Wilford Woodruff. For that matter so did hundreds of people. This was acceptable then, we can not judge them on our culture.

John Lambert | 12:13 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

I will repeat what I have said elsewhere:
Back people were worthy of the priesthood before 1978. They did not recieve the priesthood but that was not based on not being worthy. Women do not recieve the priesthood, but this is not a reflection of their worthiness.
God's ways are not our ways.
Also, to the person who said there are two churchs, you preach false doctrine. On one hand I have lived in and out of Utah and can testify there is good in both places. On the other I would have to say you are like those who speak of being one of Apolos and another of Paul who are denounced in one of the Pauline Epistles. Stop trying to divide the church.

John Lambert | 12:19 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

I am tired of people who use events to prove their point. They say "These people went inactive, therefore they must not have been converted, and were obviously not ready to be baptized, and the missionaries are too focused on numbers."
Yet, I do not believe it. I have seen many people who were strong and faithful when baptized. Sometimes people are so on fire it is shocking when the fire burns out. Satan tries extra hard on people after baptism.
Head President Hinckley's call of giving people "A Friend, A Responsibility and Nourishing by the Good Word of God". Stop just claiming that because people fall away they were not fully converted.
That is a bunch of hog wash. The changes, the isolation from friends, the commitment that the church requires are hard. People need support, not judgement in these cases.

John Lambert | 12:31 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

I am tired of people insulting others for having faith.
Diaries only prove what the authors feel. I would like to know what diearies the person refers to that refute polygamy.
It is a dangerous subject to bring up. The spirit will not testify of its truth. I have to say that too many people spend too much time spreading their own personal interpretations of it. I am half tempted to do the same. No one has ever claimed it was an easy doctrine to live. However I am not sure when a 35 year old became an "old man".
I also think a lot of people confuse the actions and practices of polygamous cults today with the historical practice of polygamy.
One more comment: Just because a writing is contemporary does not mean it is true. A journal is not neccesarily true, let alone an item presented as a journal.

John Lambert | 12:52 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

For all of you who harp on the church supresing a knowledge of history.
I first read about multiple accounts of the first vision in the Ensign. And what about the article about the Mountain Meadows Massacre in the Ensign?
There are certain core doctrines that church members should hold. If people do not think that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, then what are they doing in the church?
It is odd that when people try to act out of love they are greeted with so much hate.

John Lambert | 1:07 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

I find this board confusing. On one hand people complain that they are ignored, on the other that the church pays too much attention to them. It seems whatever we do it does not go well.
To the person who griped about supposedly being baptized at age seven, go contact your local bishop and have your name removed from the church records if your want the church to stop contacting you. If you don't do that we will continue to try and reach out to you in kindness.

Church Matters | 1:17 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Simple fact is that if you look for human error in any Church you are going to find it.

In finding fault, also consider this:

By the time Joseph Smith was 38 he had set the foundation for one of the most successful Churches in U.S. History. Sure he made some mistakes along the way - he was human. He had very little education, and very few resources.

Today I am 40. I have a very good education. Have a written a book and published it? no. Have I started a new church? no. Have I founded any new cities? no.

Don't just compare yourself to the faults of another, also compare yourself to their accomplishments. If you do, you can't deny that Joseph Smith was a great man. The church he founded is a miracle in many ways.

Ken H----Oregon | 2:08 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Christ ministered to those who struggled,to those who were humble. We must leave the ninety and nine if necessary to bring in the lost one. He did it for me! I thank God for his plan of happiness.

SJ Bobkins | 2:37 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

If this means conversion before baptism, it's about time. Getting people into the font as soon as a series of quick lessons can be taught, before they have been to church and met other members, is a recipe for the problems the church has. When the church claims 800,000 members in Brazil yet only 150,000 claim to be members with the latest census, I believe we have a problem. Can the stats, forget numbers altogether, convert and improve lives, then baptize and get names on the rolls.

Anonymous | 4:27 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

I think it's funny when people say that anti-Mormon literature was what caused them to leave the church. I have a weird testimony sbout that. I was so overwhelmed by questions about anti-Mormon literature that I decided to do some research. I gathered as much as I could. I was in the Southern states so anti literature was everwhere. I studied what they had to offer and actually gained a stronger testimony. The reasons I have gone inactive at times have been two-fold either job related or personal worthiness. I will state it like it is. I made excuses that Ward members were judgemental and that was a lie I told my self. I have to admit I have been offended, its easy to do. When I go to church, I am thinking about the Savior and trying to wrestle kids. The last thing I want to do is judge someone. If you have left the church and feel that you are happier, God bless you. However we would love you back. If someone offended you, I am sorry.

Britt In Alaska | 4:35 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Struggling with our faith is the quest of mortality. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints is people of different backgrounds and understandings living and learning about gospel principles and doing their best to live according to that understanding. The Priesthood are "common sticks" bundled together with a focus on a common goal. That is to do the best they can to do the work of the Savior here on earth in bringing about the immortality and eternal life of all mankind. It's an arduous task. People differ in knowledge and committment but the promise is that with hearts in the right orientation and doing all we are capable of, the goal can be achieved. The leadership is the Savior's role. The rest is mortal. Mistakes? Perhaps. It's the direction of travel that's most important.

ken | 5:17 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Darwin and Smith's timelines ran more or less concurrently. At the same time the BOM was published Darwin was preparing to embark on the voyage of the Beagle. The end result would be the Origin Of Species, which offers a rational, reasonable,logical explanation for how are species came about. the Origin was published 29 years after the BOM and It was only a question of time before this argument would compete for the "hearts and souls" of all those asking the question, "Where did I come from"
It's no wonder why people abandon their faith in light of science and fact. You better bring the facts and not the fluff if you want to compete :)

ME | 5:31 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

the battle rages on. we join at baptism many fall by the wayside some are wounded we can reactivate. others get caught up with worldly cares the good Lord gives them a wake up and we can reactivate. others leave and fight us sons of perdition no use trying to bring them back they cant leave it alone only desire is to destroy others testimony. beware of these individuals be smart stay away from these ones. I am amazed at those who find the truth somewhere out there. internet, apostates. good places of truth, who are these people that have your welfare at heart. scary. hold to the faith, just do your best make wrongs right the church is true, guided by inspired leaders.

Anonymous | 5:59 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

It's an abominable group of people that practices exclusion of others - even from their own group.

Selfish reasons? | 6:11 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

If people leaving the church because it's claims don't hold up under scrutiny, then yeah, I guess they do leave due to selfish reasons.

There are things the church does right. There are things the church does wrong. Many people simply can't hold themselves to be an active part in any organization that falls down in some of the areas the LDS church falls down.

By and large these people are not "bitter" or "selfish". You don't have to be selfish or bitter to cut your losses and leave when you see that the salespitch you were given throughout your youth or conversion process has no basis in reality.

Hondo | 6:32 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Aa I read all these comments from those who have chosen to leave the churchm not one has mentioned how involved they were with others. We are responsible for our own salvation. If others are not reaching out to us, we need to take the time to reach out to them first. President Hinckley's example of losing oneself in the service of others, should be the goal of all members. Yes their will be dishonest members who do horrible acts, however it is not our place to judge. So if you have been offended in the churchm get over it and move on. Life is too short to wrap yourself up in petty whinning's.

I wasn't offended | 7:34 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Many Mormons appear to be under the mistaken impression that everyone who is inactive or who resigns the church does so either because they were offended, or because they wanted to sin (i.e., they weren't "strong enough" to live the gospel standards).

You might be surprised if you knew just how many former Mormons left for reasons involving their own integrity, not because they were selfish or offended. These are people who left because they found the church was not an institution worthy of their time and resources, for any of a thousand reasons. Yet leaving is a painful decision, one not taken lightly. It has awful repercussions within our extended families. It often means being abandoned by friends. It means leaving behind a way of life that was familiar and comfortable. But it also means finding a new path that works for us, that makes us happier, more fulfilled, better able to raise our children and participate in our communities in the way we think is right.

If you're happy in the church, then super! I will neither judge nor malign you for it by reducing your decision to a harmful stereotype. Please extend me the same courtesy.

Don Crawford | 8:03 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Hey folks! Everyone calm down! I just called the Whaaaaaambulance!

Either you desire a testimony, or you don't. Quit attempting to justify your lack thereof by seeking validation in this kind of forum. Furthermore, if you spent more time serving others and less time stewing over your own shortcomings, maybe your challenges would seem less unsurmountable.

There is plenty of intellectual freedom in the church. But, if you don't have a testimony to start with, it just becomes a slippery slope. If people had "Proof", it would be called Knowledge, not Faith. Quit wasting our time with intellectual mumbo jumbo. If you don't want to be a member there is a simple method to request that your records be expunged.

While, It is disappointing that you no longer desire to be amoungst the Saints, you will get no validation here. Everyone has challenges to overcome and, "Stories" of how someone at church was a big stupid meanie.

Never mind! | 8:05 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

I was in the act of re-activating myself into the church. Although after reading on this post how members of the church feel about in-actives...I just NOW changed my mind. Thank you for your almighty thoughts! I will find God somewhere else.

To-6:11 You look like a selfish lesson for everyone to stay away from. Criticize if it makes you happy! Know though that you are wrong. If the shoe fits wear it!

To: John Lambert | 7:59 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Re : "The church did not teach so called "racist garbage". There was never any teaching of the church that anyone was less able to be saved. Just because some general authority said something does not make it church doctrine."

This is not true. I think you forgot about Jane Manning James. She was Joseph Smith's housekeeper and was denied the temple ordinances and admittance into the Celestial Kingdom (the highest level of Heaven in LDS theology for those unfamiliar) because she was black until 1894. On 05/18/1894 she was granted the temple ordinances with one caveat : She was sealed to Joseph Smith as a "servitor in eternity" ( eternal servant).

Church leadership subsequently revoked her temple ordinances and blessings on 08/22/1895 due to her "negro blood". They reinstated her servant status and sealing to Smith in 1902.

Anonymous | 8:27 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Leave them alone
and they'll come home
wagging their tails behind them.

Retention | 8:39 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Here's an easy way to differentiate between those struggling with the church but interested in staying members and those who have no interest in becoming active ever again.

Announce over the pulpit that those who wish to no longer be members of the church have the option of resigning. Tell them how. Tell them what it does.

Bam! We instantly have full disclosure that people *can* leave if they wanted to and there's no wasted resources on futile missionary efforts. And trust me they *are* futile to those who tell the missionaries and ward members "No thanks".

Anonymous | 8:35 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

John Lambert
GET A LIFE!

Anon | 8:43 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

The church has three problems:

ï¿½ It continues to focus on numbers in its missionary program. That focus will always yield converts who are pressured or tricked into joining. Inactivity in such a situation is almost inevitable.
ï¿½ The church refuses to reform. It needs to be honest about its history and stop hiding and twisting the truth.
ï¿½ Finally, church needs to be fun again. There's too much focus on obedience and not enough on the atonement.

MW | 8:51 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

One may notice that all comments coming from those who have left the church or are against it's teachings basically state that they are happy now or have found peace (in this life). Not one of them here mentions that they expect to be happy, or at peace in the next life (after death). Should we all try to make decisions now that will bring the "peace" that the Savior can only give that is "not as the world giveth"? I too have struggled to "choose the right", so I do not pretend to be better than anyone as I share my thoughts. We do need "Our Savior's Love" and His reassurance that we are on the path that leads towards eternal life in His kingdom with an eye single to his glory. This life is so short.

The history point if valid | 8:57 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

The LDS church has lied about their history. That is upsetting to many TBMs, but it is actually the truth. No point in going deeper into this, either you are curious and will find out, or you will stick your head in the sand. Most chose the latter. I labor under the burden of "knowing" the real history. The official responses (yes, even from a GA) to troubling aspects smack of an organization trying to hide the truth for fear of losing power and control (money). The only other option is an organization filled with human imperfection, all the way to the early leaders, engaging in very serious sins, yet somehow the Lord still "worked" with them. I'm staying because I believe that is what happened, but you will never hear that admitted, so get used to a BIG letdown when you going looking for answers to the troubling questions about our history. They will NOT admit that the early guys were in apostacy for about 60 years. You'll just have to accept that and quietly listen to the gospel doctrine lessons that you know are wrong. Bite your tongue!

Comfortable and Cool | 9:20 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

I left the Mormon church when I got honest with myself and admitted that it was all a sham based on the philosophy, theories and plagiarisms of Joseph Smith (and revised by his successors). Too many "eternal precepts" (from God no less) got revised by the church (eg the word of wisdom was changed into a "commandment" specifically contradicting the D&C; celestial (plural) marriage--eternal no more!; blacks and the priesthood; American Indians being "lamanites" (oops!).

As Fawn Brodie put it so elequently, it felt like taking off a heavy woollen coat during the summer. I am now much happier and much more comfortable than ever before. I would highly recommend it!

To those who wonder | 9:24 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Some wonder why inactives or resigned members would still read about and comment on the Church.

Perhaps we truly miss what we once thought we had. Perhaps we're hopeful that some day meaningful changes might be made, and our input might actually help.
Perhaps we still love and care about the members we left behind and wish only to enlighten them and help them to discover "the truth."

AP | 9:26 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

This should be self-evident, but apparently isn't: The Internet isn't God, and it shouldn't substitute for God. It is a useful tool, but it is not the source of all answers, light or wisdom.

"Retention" is a bad term. It is like building a dam to prevent the water from escaping. Developing and maintaining true conversion is a responsibility not just of the currently active members but of all who join. Many members of record have grown up in families that were not active, having received little training or introduction to the church while growing up, and are somewhat like non-members in their knowledge of the church.

Guilt | 9:29 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Active members need to recognize that some people do not want to go to church, and it really is their choice to not attend weekly or to leave the church altogether.

I went inactive years ago because I grew tired of feeling guilty every week for my desire to frequent massage parlors and look at porn on the Internet.

I left the church entirely after our Bishop told my wife it was okay to divorce me because of my habit to look at porn and to go to these massage parlors. What gave him the right to tell her that? I still loved my wife and kids, and still provided for them.

Anyway, I have no desire to go back, and my friends, neighbors and family don't seem to realize that it's okay for me to not go to church and I'm totally fine with not going.

RE: Comfortable and Cool | 9:39 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Your accusations are intriguing, if not dead wrong, but intriguing nonetheless. How exactly does the WofW contradict the D&C? The WofW is in the D&C...

Also, tell me o' wise one - are you saying the only celestial marriage is plural marriage? And how is celestial marriage no longer eternal? If you want plural marriage, I know of a town along the Utah/ Arizona border that will accomodate you.

Town Heathan | 9:39 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

To: John Lambert - you are the Archie Bunker of Mormonism!!!!

To: Anonymous (5:03 2/14) you are the kind of Mormon I would want to associate with.

As for how easy it is to remove your records...

A letter to your bishop is all it requres. I know, because I did it. I found Mormon theology and my personal theology did not mix, so I sent the letter.
The Bishop called...pleaded and reminded me that I would loose all my blessings promised in the temple.

I said thanks for your concern, please remove my name and that was that.

By Law..the church HAS to remove your name if you request it. The LDS church has been sued enough times in the past for this issue, that they don't play games much anymore.

My reason for being here....Therapy. I have anger towards the 45 years that I "feel" were wasted and talking about it and seeing others who have had simulare experences helps to reduce my anger. Angry Mormons like John Lambert help fuel my anger...but Loving Mormons like Anon 5:03 2/14 help remind me of how it SHOULD be....

Hear say? | 9:48 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

I think everyone! I mean everyone!- needs to do DEEP research about the church before they judge the thoughts of someone out-side of the church as being wrong and not knowing what they are talking about. Quit being surface members. You need to look deep and not just at what others believe to be true. Get a real mind and search deep for yourself. Hear say doesn't work if you have any personal depth in your thinking. Use your brain! That is if you have one.

To Anonymous | 9:46 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Given your posts, I'm glad you're not longer affiliated with the church. You'd be hard to explain to a non-member.

p.s. there no such thing as purging the rolls.

Sometime before you die, ask yourself, was it worth the effort I went to distance myself from all? Then live and die with your answer and I hope you're right.

Mixed Up! | 10:04 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

John Lambert is a good example of a very angry and confused person.

John Lambert, I will pray for you. You need the prayers of many people.

Ex-Mo | 10:01 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

Since I left the Saints, I feel like a free man, able to think for myself. I also prefer giving to charity instead of supporting the LDS Corp, which won't even release its numbers.

I encourage all Saints to consider a life of freedom outside the LDS.

Purging the rolls | 10:04 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

You're right. The church doesn't do any mass purging. It removes inactives' names off of the membership rolls one by one as they hit 110 years old.

Given the number of inactives living and dead that have not hit 110 from their birthdate, one can only assume that the 12 million member number thrown about by the church is off by a bit.

Just me | 10:20 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

To all of those who have a bitter story to tell, I am with you. Most people that feel like the church has betrayed them have not seen the true light. I am very active and don't criticize anyone for any belief they might have. But there are those in the church that feel they need to press issues upon those who are un-willing to listen. It is these people that push the "less actives" away from the church. I'll even admit that I was one once upon a time. I'll even admit that living the teachings is difficult. But living like a mormon means living a healthy life (if you follow the word of wisdom(that includes limiting your intake of meat to all you fat people, glandular my butt!)) Just live like christ, follow the teachings and you'll be fine. Just don't allow the simpletons to get underneath your skin. That just makes you a life long target.

Dave New 2 Utah | 10:21 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

1) Unfortunately there are way to many condescending LDS member comments. I attribute that to living in the Utah bubble. Everyone is working out their own salvation, none of us knows the heart of others.
2) Good people will leave the church for many reasons...and they will still be good people. Church activity doesnt change that. There are many, many non-members and less active members that lead more Christ-like lives than 'active members'. Dont confuse activity with a relationship with Christ.
3) Quit carring what other people think. Didn't care what non-members outside of Utah thought and don't care what members here in Utah think. I choose to associate with those (member or non member) that bring happiness to my life and help me draw closer to the Savior.
4) Less active members, hope to see you at Church. Be great to have you. Smell of smoke? No prob, you're welcome to sit with me and my family. We wont judge you. We've got our problems, you've got yours. Maybe we can help each other out and both be the better for it in the end.

I miss it... | 10:23 a.m. Feb. 15, 2008

I miss the good people I used to be friends with. I miss the many opportunities to serve. I miss the awareness of everything that's going on around my ward area.

But I don't miss the unnecessary guilt. I don't miss the arrogance. I don't miss the rigid requirements. (I mean, am I really a sinner if I love to wear flip flops, and I ABSOLUTELY HATE panty hose?)

But most of all I don't miss having to apologize for the unkind actions (excommunications, firing professors, hiding the truth, etc.) of my Church, because I no longer see it as "my" church.

How could I ever go back?

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