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New Harmony: Current focus concentrates on retaining LDS members

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umm please | 12:34 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

good luck with sheparding you strays. please take me off the mailing list.

Tia | 12:37 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Even the though the sentiment is very sweet, members also need to realize that there are many of us who have left the church, and many that are inactive, that are perfectly content (even happier!) in our lives and with our decisions. As long as they honor our wishes to be fairly left alone (if we politely tell you no thanks, then please respect that), then alright. Do what you church believes is the right thing to do. But many alredy take it too far. Please be wary of that.

Glen Larson | 1:15 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The Church is no bigger than a ward, according to President Boyd K. Packer. Within this microcosm the ward is dependent on a bishop and an insightful and focused Priesthood Executive Council who are willing to become engaged and set the example. Home & Visiting Teachers should nuture their assigned families. Many church members come into the Church with unrealistic expectations of the Leadership and members. In today's world with so many competing pressures prevents members from fulfilling their responsibilities. The revelations are true and pure; members lag in how to balance their lives from what is essential v. activities which have little substance on impacting the lives of members. My experience having served as a bishop is to set the example through personal visits in the home with each member. People change s l o w l y over time, this requires patience. We are under covenant to serve not assignment. Sadly some less-active do not respond to the helpfulness of members and leaders. Never give up!

Comments continue below

Paperboy | 1:22 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Aaahhh, I guess it's about the individual afterall, not about the statistics.

bhparkman | 1:42 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I lost most of my extended family to apostasy. When I was 15, I was ostracized from all the kin. My hometown Ward and Stake also blackballed me also. I have witnessed many in my spousesï¿½ family leave also just to end up with sad lives and broken homes.

The church is not some ï¿½organization of old menï¿½, as my grandmother once said. The church is the servant of Christ. Yes, many members are having trouble coping with everything that comes with it. The gospel is a frightening thing if you want to look at it that way. If you want a life filled with fear - then go ahead. If folk arenï¿½t listening, wellï¿½

Many in the church feel like theyï¿½re sometimes in darkness. Well! The easiest path towards the light is straight through the darkness. In the depths of darkness ï¿½ all you can see is the light, then you go towards it.

Simple.

No normal person is perfect. Those who seem perfect are worthy of my pity. Whereï¿½s the excitement and life in that?!

non retained | 1:46 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I typed many more words than 200 words and lost them, as I started telling my story in depth. Basically, I am a former bishop, now inactive. I find that any questioning is not tolerated. If want retention need to accept questioning. When I stated in interview that I was struggling, I was cut-off. No contact or invitation to participate now in 2 years. Received email to tell me not to hometeach. Criticism or spiritual seeking not fitting mold is not tolerated in many wards.

If church wants retention then must open up and try to understand both intellectual and spiritual struggles. We now have a hometeacher (good person) who is only required to physically come quarterly. The church isolates those who need friendship, and if they dissent we eliminate activity because they cannot "serve" unless they have a strong, unwaivering testimony - bad choice.

Its simple really. | 2:27 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The answer of why so many are falling away from the Church is simple really!! Years ago the answers to all things came from the Prophets and leaders of whatever faith they belonged to. And most believed the answers they were given because that was all they had. Today all one needs to do is to go to the Web to find out and many people see that what they have been told in the past is simply not true. Today, one-liners of how the Earth was formed, being 6,000 years old etc, etc no longer cuts it.

Its simple really. | 2:30 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Once truth was decided on by a seemingly inspired select. Today we can check on the answers they gave us by visiting the Web. Many leave simply because answers of the past are no longer valid in the light and knowledge of today. "The truth will make you free'.

Jim III | 4:42 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Having been a member of the LDS Church for nearly 34 years now, it is nice to see that the leadership at Church headquarters is now starting to focus on trying to retain new converts and even not so old converts active in the Church. The biggest problem that they have is to convince a lot of the "old guard" members of the church who hold temple recomends and attend the temple on a regular basis to assist in this effort. Over the years I have seen a fair number of newly baptised converts join the church, just to stop coming within a short time. Why? They were shunned and ignored by long time members. Instead a helping hand to understand LDS church standards policies, they were snubbed because they did not instantly know what to do and how to do it. I have been in a few different wards and no one would even come up and shake my hand or even acknowledge my presence. Then I would read in the Ensign magazine about how some people were welcomed with open arms to ward meeting. About time this issue was addressed by the LDS leaders.

Anonymous | 5:20 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Those who leave the church - any church - do so for various reasons. Its a sad thing to see them falter, hopefully it is just a temporary case of myopia or loss of commitment. Its a common occurance in all churches. They go to church when they're born, at Christmas (maybe) and Easter, and then again when they die.
The LDS faith is not more or less true than other faiths based on retention statistics. Its an unfortunate part of human nature to be easily distracted away from the right pathways for momentary gratification.

Dave | 6:08 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

It is true that the early Saints chose the Beehive as their icon. Industry was the word.
Maybe the focus change would spark a different type of icon. A beehive floating on a life preserver?

shirley | 6:55 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I have been less active but it was me who made the first step back. That was 32 years ago . I am so grateful to be a member of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter day Saints. It is true and I know President Thomas S. Monson is Our Lord's Prophet on the earth today. Come back and enjoy the sweet spirit with the other saints who are not perfet but are trying to live the gospel.The Lord is mindful of each one of us and wants us to "Come unto CHRIST.

Happy Member | 6:58 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I am getting unhappy. If we are a family than why when I have asked for a blessing for a member who is inactive does her ward ignore her. She has bone cancer and it seems that no-one from her ward cares.
Maybe if someone would care about her than maybe just maybe we could get her active again.

Will | 7:18 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

This essay wasn't intended to express sympathy for those Mormons who have "fallen away"; it was intended to reinforce the complacency of those who have never questioned the dogmas or dictates of the religion, and perhaps to reel back in those who are taking their first tentative steps toward independence. They are instructed to view "apostates" or those who have found better uses for their time as shivering, pathetic figures best looked on with condescending, self-satisfied pity. The truth is that there are hundreds of thousands, like myself, who left Mormonism as adults because we grew weary of worshiping a corporation and the men who direct it. It's also worth pointing out that those who suffered at Martin's Cove did so because they followed the self-appointed "prophets" of Mormonism; this wouldn't have happened had they possessed the good sense to leave.

Anonymous | 7:36 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To Non Retained, the former Bishop. I'm sorry you had a hard time and feel excluded. That ain't right in anyones book.

I've been ex'd for 9 years and have a 7yo with the chap i'm marrying in summer. Still attend weekly for my girl. The ward have been fab, the bishop is doing our wedding service, I have monthly VT's, participate in class and choir.

Sounds like you're in a crummy stake, not a crummy church and sorry you are going thru that experience.

I'm always in trouble for holding a different view to the herd (baaaaaa) so started posing "devils advocate" questions in class to pour oil on troubled waters. I have a testimony of the creation, fall, atonement, and first vision. From there it gets a bit fuzzy.

I figured that my church activity and receptivness is an internal thing between me and God, and others either helped or hindered. Church should facilitate that personal God/individual relationship and not obstruct.

Although your neighbours are trying to make you feel that way - you really aren't alone.

I wish you'd been my Bishop.
Kindest regards.

Anonymous | 7:33 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

On retention: The church can't keep using the same old tired rhetoric and expect different results.

Roger | 7:35 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

This was an interesting article. The problem is, being ï¿½activeï¿½ in a spiritual sense like an active wire isnï¿½t necessarily correlated with actively participating in the Church. Can we admit that getting a weekly dose of the same correlated lessons from the same authorized manuals is like watching endless reruns? Itï¿½s not active.

For many of us, conforming to the church actually causes you to become spiritually inactive. Quoting Emerson:

ï¿½The objection to conforming to usages that have become dead to you is, that it scatters your force. It loses your time and blurs the impression of your character...so much force is withdrawn from your proper life...

ï¿½If I know your sect, I anticipate your argument. I hear a preacher announce for his text and topic the expediency of one of the institutions of his church. Do I not know beforehand that not possibly can he say a new and spontaneous word? Do I not know that, with all this ostentation of examining the grounds of the institution, he will do no such thing? Do I not know that he is pledged to himself not to look but at one side, ï¿½ the permitted side?ï¿½

Clean Cut (with a Coke) | 7:48 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Just to throw out another perspective, I think the internet has actually helped me in finding answers to my questions. Naturally, there are things in the history of all religions that may cause people to struggle with their faith, but the trick is to struggle in the Spirit until you find answers. I've found that questioning (although done privately) is actually good--it invites growth and revelation. This questioning process has actually confirmed my faith. I sympathize with "non-retained" above, because I suppose some of your leaders weren't confident enough to help you with your struggles. If you, like I, can still come out stronger and with answers to the things that caused you to seek, question, and struggle in the first place, then think of the power for good that you can be in the lives of other members of the Church when they too confront things for the first time that might have jarred their faith. Having walked that sometimes frustrating and lonely path, you'll be more equipped to help those who come to you in an interview expressing doubts than others were with you in the past.

ScottAZ | 7:53 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

As a convert of 6 years, what I've experienced contradicts what 'Not Retained". I have found that our leaders welcome SINCERE questions and answer these questions by refering to the scriptures. And as to the assertion that one cannot 'serve' unless they have a strong unwaivering testimony is false blanket statement. And statements to the effect that people fall away because of information they get from the internet, well.......of course! Is not the internet of the world? It's just another avenue for people to get the wrong information and falsehoods of the Church. Stay strong in your FAITH.

up to you | 7:56 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Retention is up to each person. We all have our freedom to chose whether we want to be retained or not. We will have have reasons to retain or not retain. We will all have leaders who will offend us because they are human and we are human. We all have the choice to pray and search and discover the gospel for ourselves. Life is hard, it was meant to be hard, therefore, "Don't give up" is a perfect plea to every member active or less active....I have prayed it many times for many people and even for myself. No one is responsibile for my retention, but me. What a freeing truth that is.

LR | 7:51 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Happy Member hit the nail on the head. Wards are too busy organizing all the activities and programs to be concerned about the members. I moved into a new ward a year ago and no one came up to introduce themselves unless I sought out contact. I have lived in the "mission field" where every member is needed to make the ward function.

In Utah, it is easy to stop going because no one will miss you or even seek you out to get you coming again. Focus has to be on the members and not so much on programs. Bishops and stake presidents are too busy and pressured to make the programs work to put any emphasis on searching out those who are in spiritual need in their areas. It is hard to seek out spirituality in meetings where one feels alone and isolated.

Uphill battle | 7:57 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I am a seventh generation Mormon, served a mission, graduated from institute three times, married in the temple, she served a mission, but we have left with no intention to ever return. Retention will be an uphill battle - probably an entire redefinition of faith.

john | 8:04 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

There are two parts of the LDS church. The cultural and the spiritual. Often times the cultural will intervere with the real reazon for religion. It is up to us to have a person relationship with the savior. It is very hard sometimes to seperate the two parts. When we are able to keep things in perspective the only thing that really matters is our relationships with our family, friends, and God. If more of us would align our actions with our beliefs, our sense of happiness and well being would increase. We also would be able to shrug off a lot of the fluff that is in the cultural part of the church. From personal experience it is the fluff that drives me crazy. All the MEETINGS!!!!!!!!!

Wow | 8:05 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Some of these comments are pretty old and tired - either you were offended, or you're an intellectual who doesn't need guardrails, or you decided for yourself that its easier not to believe. Regardless - it all boils down to 1 thing - you either have read the scriptures and determined through the spirit that JS restored Christ's church and authority, or you don't. You either have a testimony and can work through the things that challenge it, or you don't have one and go on your way. I wonder why, then, do you go out of your way to tell the viewers of this site how and why you left. If you are happy elsewhere, why take the time since you are happy not believing? I bet it's because you do, except you've drifted off the path.

Gospel Doctrine | 8:10 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I am a lifelong member, always attending, not always active. Activity, is what I choose to do on my own. My own intitiative, study, prayer, answers. Answers will never come from the internet, web, or even your bishop, missionaries etc. YOU guide your own life according to the answers that you recieve (from God, not the web), and answers are to be spiritually discerned (1Cor). YOU find your own answers, everybody else is there to help or to hinder you in the process. The greatest helps are the ones you have to dig(study and pray)for on your own. Knowing, thoroughly, the doctrines of the Church, will change behavior more than the study of behavior, will change behavior. It takes alot of work and time.

Dave | 8:17 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To that one that said her inactive friend with bone cancer can't get a blessing, that doesn't seem to sound right. There is no one to be denied a blessing. I have given blessings to inactive members and non members as have other priesthood holders I know. For those who have left please note that either the Book of Mormon is true or it isn't. If it isn't then you have not problem leaving and being inactive. If it's true then you better stop being offended and come back.

fdg | 8:19 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I didn't know that the internet was the way to find truth about the church. I thought that it was by asking our Father in Heaven. Many of you who have gone inactive have done so because you wanted to to so.,or you may have lost your membership due to your own doing. Never the lss maby you should take stock of your self and see just who is to blame. Yes we can be insensitive to others sometimes. But some of the blame has to be put on you.We use the members who didn't say hi or the Bishop said something that we might disagree with as the excuse to get out of the church. To you who found the truth on the internet and lost your testimony so to speak, I say If the church was true for you at one time in your life then its still true today.Get your selves in geer and make it better rather than always tearing it down by saying the church left you.

For the Record | 8:24 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

The suggestion that inactive members or those who have left the faith have not retained a sense of spiritual life is not helpful if LDS people want to really understand what's going on. Since leaving the LDS church, my spiritual life has flourished. I simply didn't agree with the church's teachings and opted to pursue a more meaningful path for me. Due to the LDS church's missionary approach and institutional zeal to share its beliefs, it's difficult sometimes for Mormons to understand that someone can have deep conviction and spiritual perspective without talking about it a lot.

Pay them more!!! | 8:26 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Wait, am I still on the teacher's salary post?

Now More Than Ever | 8:29 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

We used to be cynical of those who believed everything they heard or read. "If it is in print it must be true". Well the internet has opened some amazing pipelines to information, but it has no way of differentiating truths from falsehoods and anyone can perpetuate any idea they choose.

Additionally, even before the Book of Mormon plates were uncovered the warning was made: "that my name should be both good and evil spoken of among all people." Today, nearly 200 years later we hear or read varied stories. With the internet we can be ever learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. But we can rely conclusively on results, on the fruits born. Once we partake of the fruit we continue to nourish, to water, to prune away our own dross natures, to purify. If we do that we can grow in wisdom, knowledge and understanding. If we think we have already done what was necessary, then we have certainly stopped short and will wither on or off the vine.

Reach out. Stay involved. Seek those who are struggling. Love one another. Lift up the hands which hang down. Strengthen the feeble knees.

Tadpole | 8:37 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To "Wow | 8:05 a.m."

It's just not that easy. I have trusted my spiritual experiences in the past, but when they contradict proven fact it makes me seriously question them. Faith is such an individual thing that you simply cannot, in this life, separate us into sheep and goats. I have faith in God but I have major concerns about my LDS religion because of things I have discovered even before the advent of the internet.

By making a black and white distinction you are marginalizing the experiences and individuality of many good people. I suggest you subscribe to Dialogue (founded in part by Dallin H. Oaks) or Sunstone, and start learning about the intricacies of sincere belief and faith as they relate to the real world of experience.

Wow...Wow | 8:34 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

In reply to your question "why do you go out of your way to tell the viewers of this site how and why you left? It's called "dialogue," sharing experiences and perspective to establish some level of understanding and common ground. This may be a challenge to you, but you need to realize that us "apostates" (your faith's term, not mine) have conviction too, and are more than happy to share it. I suppose you'd prefer that we just slink away into outer darkness, right? And people wonder why retention is an issue. Your honor, I present exhibit A: "Wow."

Retention | 8:43 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I think that it is he churches responsibility to keep me active.

Less tithing would help.

Don't you think the whole white shirt and tie thing is a little "1950's" too.

And, maybe a more rocking band at church.

And, what's the deal with no gays?

And if people are going to say "Flippin this and Flippin' that", and "Gosh all to Heck", why can't I have an ocssional beer?

Tattoos and piercings should be OK.

C'mon, it's the 21st century.

Happy for 39 Years | 8:40 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I have been a member for 39 years which included one 5 year period of inactivity and numerous periods of struggling (as we all do from time to time). Also during that time I have served in many callings from teacher to bishopric. In all callings I and those I served with have welcomed sincere questioning because that is how we grow. I have taught Gospel Doctine in Sunday School and Institute for over 10 years of that time and to those who think all we do is rehash the same old lessons over and over, I don't belive I have ever given the same lesson twice. Not only have I and my insight changed over the years, but the class (audience) is always different. Growth in the church relates to our spiritual capacity (which is infinite). As long as our spirits are open minded, we will continue to grow, learn and be fulfilled.

pity the lowly bee | 8:46 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Dave 6:08 - says the beehive is the Mormon icon that represents industry. That's the message Mormons get.
When you examine, "... subject to Kings, Rulers, Presidents and Magistrates..." the lowly bee takes on a new and subservient meaning within the hive.
I suppose there are good bee-keepers and bad beekeepers.

Anonymous 10 | 8:41 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Having lived most of my life in 2 indifferent states other than Utah,I can truly say that some wards don't have a 'people matter' attribute, and that is truly sad.

Where the LDS faith is not the majority religion in your city, you have to try harder to remain faithful and seek out and stay close to those members of your ward. Everyone knew everyone and associated with them more than just on Sunday's or mutual nights or one night a month home/visiting teaching. They were extended family.

I think if we returned to this small but simple idealogy, we may see that our lives are really over organized, over filled with activities that hinder us from caring about others.

I know that everyone does the best the can at all times.

I don't sometimes understand when people ask me 'are you new here', when we've been in the ward for 8 - 10 years. Wards here in Utah get changed and realigned often enough, and people move in and out like the mail in my mailbox that it is tough too keep up with it. I know it's harder on the leadership of the wards.

Keep hope and faith.

Anonymous | 8:42 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Wow asked, ï¿½why take the time since you are happy not believing?ï¿½ The answer is simpleï¿½this article is about *us*. If Jerry Johnston can write an article implying that since I no longer participate much in the church we must somehow be in need of a life preserver, what is wrong with me explaining thanks for the consideration, but the life preserver you are throwing is actually an anvil that will pull me down into a dead church?

I bet if a paper wrote an article critical of people who joined the church and talked about what good Christians should do to help them out of it, youï¿½d be up in arms. That is a perfectly valid responseï¿½if somebody attacks Mormons, Mormons can and should defend themselves. Likewise, when people attack those of us who have sought greener pastures elsewhere, we can and should defend ourselves.

Anonymous | 8:44 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

An organization that places itself higher than the individual - that organization is a monstrous one.
History has proven this time and time again.

Once there | 8:45 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

If the church was honest about its history I may have been inclined to stay afloat. However, with their intentionally deceptive practices I could not in good conscience continue to participate. Strict conformity of thought, action and look is not good for the "spirit." Nor is the the way the church divides families. The truth has set me free and I've never been happier.

Peaceful | 8:53 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I left the church and I have been much happier. Although, I do apply some of their teachings to my life. For one, I do not drinking. I live the ten commandments and pray at every meal. I left the church because I couldn't stand be around the members who placed themselves above all mankind. It would stress me out and I am not that kind of person. It has been a real relief to leave and a monkey off my back. I don't dislike the church, but CANNOT stand the holier than thou group.

re: wow | 8:47 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I agree Wow. It's not hard for most people to find fault with the (any) church for one reason or another. I wonder if they would find these same faults in any other church they attend? People look for an excuse to be selfish (hurt feelings, nobody included me, can't question doctrine). Any little thing would turn their fancy. We all try hard and are in different spiritual strengths depending on our circumstance and our willingness to be faithful. Retention is meant to focus on developing individuals. If you don't want to be included, fine. Tell those who contact you, not a message board! If we were all perfect people we wouldn't still be here!

Guymon | 8:48 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

People leave the church or "drift" away for lots of reasons,most selfish. Like Wow said -you have a testimony or you dont. Im stunned by those who claim to have gone on missions - had strong testimonys and then something happens i.e. word change in the bofm, or a question about doctrines or perhaps DNA logic. perhaps they were offended by person x. Funny thing is most of these folks I know - and they are good people - successful -- happy -- they all drink or smoke...engage in some behavior they couldnt as believers. How can you have a testimony of faith and allow one thing to shake up your entire belief system ? Either you are too weak to maintain the lifestyle (it is hard) or too selfish or ... you never really believed. Happiness is about living in accordance with what you believe. If you accept the Word of Wisdom - and drink - you wont be happy. So either you try to change your beliefs or you will feel guilt and failure or you exercise self control and live what you believe.

Recent Utah Move In | 8:52 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I agree with much that has been said. Since movingto Utah I have had great difficulty with the local wards and stakes. People hear are not friendly. They are pridefule, dishonst, live beyond their means, and the most juging people I've ever seen. They will go to the temple and look down on you if you don't go. When leaving the temple they will then engage in dishonest business dealings. But if they se you drink a coke or a cup of coffee, that's it, they won't have anything to do with you.

I am an active member in my ward, and my family has been in the chruch since its inception. But it is becoming more difficult everyday. If our chruch wants to retain its members, the people in the chruch must practice those things taught by Hinkley and Monson. Be kinder, be more understaning, dont judge. Help those with a genuine smile. And if they don't respond, don't shun them.

ut it is becoming more difficlut everyday.

Leave The Church | 9:02 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I no longer consider myself LDS, Christian or of any religion and have never been happier in my life. Freedom involves the exercising of reason and common sense to determine that the Bible and Book of Mormon are not the best books for moral living. I applaud leaders for placing their focus on scriptures that tap into many people's moral sensibilities. Such picking and choosing of scripture, however, makes most people ignorant of portions of the Bible that are nothing but examples of a petty and cruel God. If people are going to make the claim that the Bible is the word of God, they can't through out the bad parts just because they don't like them.

In the Bible God tells parents of disobedient children to send them to town so men can throw them to death. Family values? I'm glad most religious people don't consult that part of the Bible to govern their moral lives, but I think most religious leaders are intellectual dishonest when they choose to ignore or explain away the ugly parts of the Bible. If you want to be honest about scripture, leave religion.

not retentive | 9:05 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I was born into the church, attended BYU, served a mission, married in the temple, raised 5 children, held priesthood leadership positions. I stopped participating over 5 years ago and feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I actually look forward to a casual Sunday, not filled with useless meetings, insincere people and guilt trips. I actually chuckle when I occasionally go back to a meeting and hear people mourn their relatives who have fallen away as if they had died. They haven't...just gone to a better place.

APOST8 | 9:12 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

I'm only a 6th generation Mormon. I left the church over 30 years ago after I went on a mission. Despite all my efforts to believe in it, I just couldn't pretend anymore. Yes, I felt guilty abandoning the faith of my forebearers who sacrificed so much. However, I came to the realization that their sacrifice was also misplaced and that was not a valid reason for me to continue in their folly. I will always be a "cultural" Mormon and proud of my heritage, but can never swallow the selective history and nonsense put out by the church. I bear my testimony that it is OKAY NOT TI BELIEVE!

Ron in Oc | 9:15 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

For those who have left the LDS church for whatever reason. Go do your thing and be happy but spare us the story about being offended, left out, questions not tolerated, etc.

Harrison | 9:26 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

There are many reasons why people leave. As I read the posts no one seems to be willing to say the obvious. People are leaving because they have determined that it just isn't true. It is not just the matter of not being able to recapture the feelings related to one's testimony. It comes down to something more fundamental- the Book of Mormon is not what it claims to be- ancient scripture. The question is- did the things described in the BOM really happen? In the end there is not just a lack of evidence, but the evidence points away from the BOM being about real people in a real place, at a real time. Faithful Mormons get angry when those on the outside point out the serious even insurmountable archaeological/ anthropological problems related to the BOM. Let's remember that this is a church that in many ways is built around sending it's sons and daughters all over the world to try to convince people that the BOM is true. The question is- when will someone in the heirarchy/ some notable in the church stand up and point out the elephant in the room?

Anonymous | 9:33 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

To Retention.....Your post was 'tongue in cheek' I presume. Good way to make people think that the times, they do change, but the Gospel of Jesus Christ remains the same. The Gospel Principals stay the same. It is we that move away from the Gospel in order to be 'hip'. Ahhh, the ways of the world...they do change don't they? Slouching towards Gomorrah.

jam23 | 9:28 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008

Wow...Wow. You are pretty worked up over some pretty benign comments from Wow, you being a person who likes "dialogue", to make them exhibit A for people leaving the Church. The word "apostate" was not invented by Church members and it is not interchangeable with "inactive" but you can profess to be which ever term fits.

To Tadpole, no one ever said it would be easy but it is not as complex as people make it either. There exists good and evil, true and false and they are black and white if you rely on God's teachings. My professional training is in the application of logic. If I saw "proven fact" that contradicted my spiritual belief I would be gone in a minute. Popular claims and assertions seldom qualify as fact and are usually discredited in time.
I have had numerous experiences in the Church and in my relationship directly with Heavenly Father that it would be foolish and tragic for me to discount the miracles I have witnessed and believe in the heresay or postulations that abound.

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