Reader comments
Mormon Media Observer: Mitt's curtain call
206 comments | Read story
Chris | 12:20 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Wally - you need to go to the source instead of listening to your preacher. The
Articles of Faith are not in the Book of Mormon, as you indicated. They are
part of the Pearl of Great Price, and even then a separate piece from the other
sections of that book. Next, the whole thing reads, "We believe the Bible
to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the
Book of Mormon to be the word of God." As to correct modern translations
of the Bible thanks to the Greek (and Hebrew) skills of so-called theologians,
why is it they can't agree on one translation? I stopped counting
different translations (listed in Wikipedia's entry for modern English
Bible translations) when I hit 50. It's obvious that any of these Bibles
have different translations, and different meanings. Ever had a Jehovah's
Witness tell you something about the Bible you know is different in yours?
(Wally, you probably wouldn't have - you wouldn't give someone else
the courtesy to explain their own religion.) So before you start trying to pick
a fight by calling a "flip flop", you better get a clue.
Mike | 12:21 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Wally you stated:
"BOM Article 8 We beleive the "Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated...All modern Christian seminaries teach their Preist and Pastors enough Greek to know the Bible is translated correctly,or does that mean something else than it states? Kinda of a flip flop."
What is BOM 8? I was unaware that the modern priests and pastors were conversant in Greek. But how does this help them know if the Bible is translated correctly? Was Isaiah Greek or did he just write in Greek?
"BOM Article 8 We beleive the "Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated...All modern Christian seminaries teach their Preist and Pastors enough Greek to know the Bible is translated correctly,or does that mean something else than it states? Kinda of a flip flop."
What is BOM 8? I was unaware that the modern priests and pastors were conversant in Greek. But how does this help them know if the Bible is translated correctly? Was Isaiah Greek or did he just write in Greek?
Comments continue below
SLMG | 12:29 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Mitt Romney is past for now, so move on. The biggest stumbling blocks for the
Republican Party is George W. Bush. Bush has done more damage to this country
than any other president in history, he along with Dick Cheney have all but torn
up the constitution, they are absolutly hated and detested around the world, not
just by the enemys of the United States but by our very allies. So be ready for
a Democrat as the next president or a very moderate Republican. I for one will
cheer either party on as long as we can get rid of this ultra right wing
conservative government that we saddled ourselves with for 8 years.
Please don't give me that Bill Clinton was our worst president, he was not, he may have been a embarassment and his morals may have been all wrong,but. George Bush and Dick cheney's morals leave a lot to be desired too, just take a close look at there human right and enviromental records. Example: nothing has been done to stop global warming and it is expected that Lakes Mead and Powell will be dry by 2021. This country had better wake up to it's self.
Please don't give me that Bill Clinton was our worst president, he was not, he may have been a embarassment and his morals may have been all wrong,but. George Bush and Dick cheney's morals leave a lot to be desired too, just take a close look at there human right and enviromental records. Example: nothing has been done to stop global warming and it is expected that Lakes Mead and Powell will be dry by 2021. This country had better wake up to it's self.
bankshot7 | 12:32 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Claiming Jesus to be the brother of Satan, the Garden of Eden to have been in
Kansas, that you can become a GOD?????? Why would any mainstream Christian think
this dogma of the LDS religion strange???? No wonder Mormons will never hold
the presidency.
Anonymous | 12:36 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Are Mormons not the same people who are the first at
disaters all over the world. I bet a lot of these people who vote against Mormons take and use our gifts of service when the time arises and think nothing of it.
disaters all over the world. I bet a lot of these people who vote against Mormons take and use our gifts of service when the time arises and think nothing of it.
MORMONS Wish Came True | 12:36 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Mormons have always been proud to regard themselves with being self titled as,
"Mormons means good". This was taught at general conference by a
general authority.
Also was taught at conference that Mormons need to feel proud that they are different, unique and peculiar people, from the rest of the world.
Well, this goal that has been harbored, adored and rendered have come to pass exactly as intended.
So, why is it that Mormons are now disillusioned when the world regards Mitt Romney to be different, unique and peculiar then the rest of the world, Christians or not?
But the LDS church are learning more then ever, to now preach to their members to not call themselves Mormons anymore, but members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, because they know that the general conference talks have backfired tremendously, and that the name Mormon has been taken in a very negative way amongst the mainstream.
Therefore, the general authorities made a huge mistake and have changed course so they can be perceived in better light.
Don't consider the estrangements of Mitt as anything odd or a slap in the face, it was intended deliberately, just not positively.
Also was taught at conference that Mormons need to feel proud that they are different, unique and peculiar people, from the rest of the world.
Well, this goal that has been harbored, adored and rendered have come to pass exactly as intended.
So, why is it that Mormons are now disillusioned when the world regards Mitt Romney to be different, unique and peculiar then the rest of the world, Christians or not?
But the LDS church are learning more then ever, to now preach to their members to not call themselves Mormons anymore, but members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, because they know that the general conference talks have backfired tremendously, and that the name Mormon has been taken in a very negative way amongst the mainstream.
Therefore, the general authorities made a huge mistake and have changed course so they can be perceived in better light.
Don't consider the estrangements of Mitt as anything odd or a slap in the face, it was intended deliberately, just not positively.
David from Utah | 12:38 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
As a Mormon missionary serving in North Carolina back in the 80's, we had
an experience where a local Southern Baptist Minister showed an anti-Mormon
movie to his congregation. But, because of the friendships members of his
congregation had with Mormons, his congregation had him fired and ran out of
town. Many in that congregation have since joined the Mormon faith. There are
many experiences similar to this one in North Carolina and I imagine in other
places. The biggoted news seems to have improved the LDS missionary work. Thank
you! Keep it coming.
sick at heart | 12:41 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I am just sick over the comment that "America is not ready for a Mormon
President" This just shows where the tolerance level is in our hair brained
society. If we are not ready for a "Mormon" president now, we never
will be, because we should have been ready a long time ago. Look at the man and
not his personal belief. I dislike Huckleberries baptist religion, but would
vote for him if I felt he was intlelligent and honest. I voted for President
Bush knowing his baptist roots. Its fine to disagree with anothers religion but
when we become so unattached and so narrow minded as to vote against a man
because of his faith we my fellow readers are not ready for tolerance period.
Hate has not decressed it has increased, SHAME SHAME SHAME on every evangelical
bigot that made this there reason to vote Romney out.
GROW UP!
GROW UP!
Californian | 12:45 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Just a quick story on Evangelicals...a man was writing a book about Mitt Romney
and interviewed Elder Maxwell. He mention to Elder Maxwell that he had received
TONS of anti-Mormon pamphlets and books since telling friends of the interview.
Elder Maxwell replied something to the effect that these people really believe
what they are saying about the Church and are just trying to help. I really
believe those folks were doing what they thought was right. You can't
blame them for that. Huckabee, I don't like--politically or
personally--but that is another tale. I respect Evangelicals for their
faith.
That being said, I am sad that Mitt Romney isn't going to be nominated, no matter what the reason. My sadness is not because he is a Mormon but because I think he is smart, intense, optimistic, and hardworking. I honestly thought he'd do a good job. He changed the Olympics--not just financially but also the attitude of Utah toward them. He loves his country the same way I do and because of that I feel I could trust him with it. I am not optimistic about the current field but I will find someone. I just wish it was Mitt.
That being said, I am sad that Mitt Romney isn't going to be nominated, no matter what the reason. My sadness is not because he is a Mormon but because I think he is smart, intense, optimistic, and hardworking. I honestly thought he'd do a good job. He changed the Olympics--not just financially but also the attitude of Utah toward them. He loves his country the same way I do and because of that I feel I could trust him with it. I am not optimistic about the current field but I will find someone. I just wish it was Mitt.
ABSOLUTELY TRAGIC | 12:49 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Anyone who ever served an LDS mission in the southern states will tell you...
They know for a FACT that Huckabee and other Christian denominations that are
uneducated about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They are
uneducated because they are blinded by ignorance. I know for a fact many
so-called Christian families who 1)Were not educated about Mitt Romney as a
candidate. 2)Would never open their blinded eyes long enough because they are so
ANTI-MORMON.
It was a tragic day in America the day that Romney had to step out of the Presidential Race. He WAS OUR ONLY HOPE TO MAKING SIGNIFICANT STRIDES IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
It is TRAGIC that mainstream America itself is so blinded by the Media, their own ignorance, their own sins, and prejudice- that they rejected who WOULD HAVE BEEN AMERICA'S BEST PRESIDENT AND MOST REVERED SINCE RONALD REAGAN.
TRAGIC. BUT NOT SURPRISING. EVER HEARD OF HELL IN A HAND-BASKET? NO WORRIES THOUGH- THOSE WHO STRIVE TO LIVE THE TRUE GOSPEL HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. THIS WAS ALL FORETOLD AND PART OF A GRANDER PLAN.
It was a tragic day in America the day that Romney had to step out of the Presidential Race. He WAS OUR ONLY HOPE TO MAKING SIGNIFICANT STRIDES IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
It is TRAGIC that mainstream America itself is so blinded by the Media, their own ignorance, their own sins, and prejudice- that they rejected who WOULD HAVE BEEN AMERICA'S BEST PRESIDENT AND MOST REVERED SINCE RONALD REAGAN.
TRAGIC. BUT NOT SURPRISING. EVER HEARD OF HELL IN A HAND-BASKET? NO WORRIES THOUGH- THOSE WHO STRIVE TO LIVE THE TRUE GOSPEL HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. THIS WAS ALL FORETOLD AND PART OF A GRANDER PLAN.
Michael-New Zealand | 1:00 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Wow what great writing on this forum! There is so much to be hopeful for after
the recent months more people will find Christ and The Church in the these
latter days! Even the people who are fighting the ideals of The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-Day Saints are very interested saving themselves from Satan,
they just find it easier to kick out at everyone that is happy in their faith
than break their pride ride. Brother Romney did good work and has made many
millions of people think about God and Christ, many will seek their faith in a
new way and many will kick and roll in the bracken bush as they have most of
their life. Romney or whomever will be called when their time is Gods time to
move forward the Saints work for the good of all! Thats what it was about in the
first place! God Bless all of you for careing to read and study Gods work! I
know you wish all of us, well in the end.
Michael
Michael
Rick from Ca. | 1:00 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Going tit for tat on the internet with those bent on convincing the world that
Mormons are cultists is never going to convince any of them that we are anything
other than what they think we are. I am tired of their verbal assaults and
un-christ-like insults. No amount of intellectualizing can penetrate their
calloused hearts. HOw they can spend so much time and money lambasting my fauith
is beyond me. If they would only offer me something better than I have I would
follow them. The answer to that one is obvious.
The only response to their opposition is to continue to put forth the Christ-like example that we've always strived to do by keeping the two great commandments. Love our neighbor, even our enemies.
The only response to their opposition is to continue to put forth the Christ-like example that we've always strived to do by keeping the two great commandments. Love our neighbor, even our enemies.
Quit Whining! | 1:08 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Maybe if Mitt had answered some of those questions about his faith, he would be
the Republican nominee today. Maybe if we answer those questions now, we will
fulfill our covenant responsibility to preach the gospel and the harvest of
souls will be great. Maybe we should all quit whining and go to work!
There's a reason | 1:19 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Huckabee didn't get any votes in Utah. It's the only state where the
Huck's religion didn't mean a hill of beans. So what he
"says" he's Christian; so are we. I can't blame Huck,
it's politics. He saw a large group of voters, wanting to vote for someone
with Mitt's positions (most important among them, pro-life and anti-gay.
Economy, national and international policy, taxes, etc not so much), but also
wanting someone they considered Christian. Well, Bam! He was all three of that
voting bloc's biggest concerns.
Vote for me; I can claim to be Christian without offending you. Just ignore the fact that I have no clue how to be president.
What's ironic is how that big bloc of voters has now screwed themselves by voting for a guy who was never a viable presidential candidate, simply because he wasn't Mormon.
Now, if the Democrats have any smarts to them, they will nominate Obama, as the only thing left to motivate the evangelicals is the chance to vote againt the Billary! machine. Wouldn't that serve the Evangelicals right, when a man they've falsely accused of being Muslim (which shouldn't make a difference, anyway) becomes their president.
Vote for me; I can claim to be Christian without offending you. Just ignore the fact that I have no clue how to be president.
What's ironic is how that big bloc of voters has now screwed themselves by voting for a guy who was never a viable presidential candidate, simply because he wasn't Mormon.
Now, if the Democrats have any smarts to them, they will nominate Obama, as the only thing left to motivate the evangelicals is the chance to vote againt the Billary! machine. Wouldn't that serve the Evangelicals right, when a man they've falsely accused of being Muslim (which shouldn't make a difference, anyway) becomes their president.
The System | 1:34 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
When Huckabee abused the system for personal gain, he believed McCain was no
longer a viable candidate. He thought he could simply ride Mitt's coat
tails to the convention, all the while slyly using the Mormon wedge issue. He
was wrong, but he did accomplish his goal of stealing a lot of would've
been Mitt voters.
You cannot blaim the religious right voting bloc. Most are very unfamiliar with the LDS religion and only know what their pastors have told them: that it's inspired of the devil. If the situation were reversed, would you want someone who could be inspired by the devil leading your country?
It's hard, but think of it this way. To a lot of people, our religion is as fruity as the Church of Scientology. If the thought of voting for a Scientologist for president would give you pause, you now understand how evangelicals felt toward Mitt.
Be a little more forgiving before calling everybody a bunch of religious bigots.
You cannot blaim the religious right voting bloc. Most are very unfamiliar with the LDS religion and only know what their pastors have told them: that it's inspired of the devil. If the situation were reversed, would you want someone who could be inspired by the devil leading your country?
It's hard, but think of it this way. To a lot of people, our religion is as fruity as the Church of Scientology. If the thought of voting for a Scientologist for president would give you pause, you now understand how evangelicals felt toward Mitt.
Be a little more forgiving before calling everybody a bunch of religious bigots.
Again To: Ready for Internet | 1:43 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
My ability to explain gospel principles in the face of anti-morman
misrespresentations comes from over 40 years of extensive, personal study of
both and finding answers for myself. Perhaps my answers don't work for
everyone, but are you saying I shouldn't attempt the conversation anyway?
Just refer them to lds.org? On the one hand you fear LDS engaging in the
conversation and on the other you'd prefer they are left to themselves to
figure it out? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
In the end, those that are really interested in finding the truth on an issue have to pay the price and study it out for themselves. There really isn't a shortcut here. Those that really aren't sincere will never really get it.
You seem to have the answers. Please enlighten us as to the best way to proceed.
In the end, those that are really interested in finding the truth on an issue have to pay the price and study it out for themselves. There really isn't a shortcut here. Those that really aren't sincere will never really get it.
You seem to have the answers. Please enlighten us as to the best way to proceed.
Jaimie | 1:59 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Oh, the reasons on here are absolutely running the gauntlet. All of you
can't be right.
Those who know the least, know it the loudest is the saying of the day.
If someone votes against someone because of the wrong reason, it will come back to bite the voter.
Those who know the least, know it the loudest is the saying of the day.
If someone votes against someone because of the wrong reason, it will come back to bite the voter.
Jerry Williamson | 1:55 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I think that all of those who fight against the Mormon church would consider the
words of a Jewish leader who spoke some 2,000 years ago. Peter James and John
were imprisoned for preaching a new religion. I believe it was Gamaliel who
said it best "if this work be of men it will come to nought, but if it be
of God ye cannot overthrow it."
Texas Fan | 1:58 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Romney doesn't need to rebuild his image. His image is great. He just
needs to be more well known. A lot of the prejudice will go away when people
become more used to the fact that a Mormon (and a good one at that) is running
for president. Of coarse, there is always a flipside to being president and
that is that whoever it is, if they are a conservative, they will be ripped to
shreds by the media.
Q | 2:10 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Its amazing how so many people are afraid of Mormonism. Why? I think they give
us all too much credit. We are a pretty simple faith that preaches honesty and
good living. Why are people so threatened? Its like LDS people are some sort
of alien/human hybrid that has this inconceivable power. People, wake up,
we're just Mormons. My goodness. I'm very discontent with the
Republican party this year. Mitt was by far the most qualified candidate. The
GOP should have pushed him. McCain and Huckabee are not electable. Instead,
we'll have President Barak Husein Obama. Wonderful!! No executive
experience, no leadership experience, no economic experience...America is about
to elect a wonderful public speaker. Oh well, things will work out.
Michael-New Zealand | 2:20 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
To Jerry Williamson
Thank you, what you said, says it all!
"I think that all of those who fight against the Mormon church would consider the words of a Jewish leader who spoke some 2,000 years ago. Peter James and John were imprisoned for preaching a new religion. I believe it was Gamaliel who said it best "if this work be of men it will come to nought, but if it be of God ye cannot overthrow it." "
For those interested in the translations of the Bible please spend some time on the internet looking up this subject, you will find the Bible has been rewritten and translated many times. The fact that the Bible has had many books taken out by the Catholic Church and others should concern you as well!
Thank you, what you said, says it all!
"I think that all of those who fight against the Mormon church would consider the words of a Jewish leader who spoke some 2,000 years ago. Peter James and John were imprisoned for preaching a new religion. I believe it was Gamaliel who said it best "if this work be of men it will come to nought, but if it be of God ye cannot overthrow it." "
For those interested in the translations of the Bible please spend some time on the internet looking up this subject, you will find the Bible has been rewritten and translated many times. The fact that the Bible has had many books taken out by the Catholic Church and others should concern you as well!
Dutchman | 2:34 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Let's get one thing straight. Mitt won Utah by 90% of the Republican vote
because of what he accomplished here with the Olympics. Utahns saw first hand
what the man can achieve. I dare say that Mitt would have captured a big
majority of the vote in Utah even if he were not a Mormon because of the
Olympics. Most people outside of Utah don't know what kind of trouble Utah
was in with these games. Mitt fixed it because he is a man who can fix things.
Too bad the country did not see in Mitt what people in Utah saw. And I predict
that if Huckabee gets on the ticket Utah will vote for Obama! Utah turned
against Goldwater (another Arizona senator) in 1964 and they will turn against
McCain if Huckabee or any other evangelical bigot for that matter is on the
ticket.
Ready for the Internet? | 2:55 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
1:43 asked what I meant about members stepping into the internet world to engage
in the "conversation" about our faith. Someone like you who has
studied the historical and doctrinal issues for forty years would likely be able
to have a very constructive dialogue. I can only assume that you know both sides
of the issues and have maintained your testimony throughout your study. My
concern is that members will engage in the debate without truly understanding
the concerns out there and that will not help those with honest questions.
Again, a simple testimony in response generally does not answer questions. I am
also concerned that some will lose their testimonies after truly diving in and
studying - it has happened to thousands (I know a Church employee who processes
resignation requests all day). Perhaps the answer is an official LDS site that
answers questions in an open, honest and unvarnished way. Nothing to date has
done that and an apologist site like FARMS only hurts and has destroyed
testimonies in their own right. The current efforts are just that - an effort -
but do not come close to what is needed. There is not an easy answer.
To Dutchman | 3:07 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
You said that such a huge percentage of Utahn's voted for Romney not
because of his religion but because of the stellar work he did with the
Olympics. Then you insinuated Utahn's would not vote for a ticket that
included Huckabee - presumably because of his religion. Unfortunately I think
you are wrong on your first comment. I think Utahn's voted for Romney
largely because he is Mormon. And you are right on the second - many will not
vote for Huckabee because he screams anti-mormon evangelical. Let's just
admit that religion is extremely important in decision making to a huge
percentage of this country - particularly Mormons and evangelicals.
Anonymous | 3:04 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I will go out on a limb and say that evangelicals are bigoted. In their defense,
The reason they are is because in weekly "Bible study" and even across
the pulpit the ministers preach hatred of almost every major faith that
wasn't theirs Catholic, Jews and even Pentecostal. I lived among them, and
if they would find out I was a Mormon they would immediately tell me that I
needed to get out of the church and that I was going to hell. I have went to
their churches with friends and the ministers attacked my beliefs. I was also
ostercised and made to feel sub-human. It started getting bad in the early
eighties. My personal belief is that preaching hatred should be considered a
hate crime. If you preached that kind of hatred towards Blacks, Jews, Women it
would not be acceptable. To me, anti-mormon sentiment is the offspring of the
civil rights movement. The south had to substitute centuries of hate toward a
race because of laws and they substituted religion as their drug of choice.
It's Simple Really | 3:15 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Statistics show that the vast majority of Mormons voted for Romney (see Utah and
Nevada voting numbers in particular). Statistics also show that a large number
of Evangelicals voted for Huckabee (see Iowa and South Carolina voting numbers
in particular).
Why is ANYONE crying about bigotry? people vote for the candidate that best represents their views. Views that are often tied to their religious convictions. There just aren't enough Momon's in this country to make that much of a difference for a Mormon candidate.
Why is ANYONE crying about bigotry? people vote for the candidate that best represents their views. Views that are often tied to their religious convictions. There just aren't enough Momon's in this country to make that much of a difference for a Mormon candidate.
Anonymous | 3:18 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
No matter who is elected this November, we're all in for another 4 years of
total nonsense. What this country needs most is a sense of unity and tolerance.
Unfortunately, the people of this nation are less tolerant now than they were
20 years ago...that's not progress.
Bevereley/ Payson Az | 3:42 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I wish that people would look at a persons record
not their religion. They look at their records when
they are bad.........I will vote for him again in
2012....hopefully he hasn't given up....
not their religion. They look at their records when
they are bad.........I will vote for him again in
2012....hopefully he hasn't given up....
Anonymous | 3:42 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I am an ex mormon. I blogged hard to keep Romney from getting the nomination.
The idea of it kept me awake nights.
The main reason I do not believe in Romney has nothing to do with Mormonism, unless there is something I don't know. The main reason is Blackwater. Period. Add to that- the off shore accounts - the lies in MA., - the odd SLC story of the Olympics and his *appointement* by Wall Street to fix it - and the lies about his landscapers, and his mean campaigning just confirmed for me who he is. You could have picked a better candidate.
We are good citizens, just like you. But, you hide too much. Too secretive. Too coy by 11. Mormons own everything in Utah and that's weird for people.
Lastly, how dare he promote more war while he and his five sons just sit around, lay people off- and make more and more money.
THAT'S the reason we voted against Mitt.
Stop kidding yourselves.
The main reason I do not believe in Romney has nothing to do with Mormonism, unless there is something I don't know. The main reason is Blackwater. Period. Add to that- the off shore accounts - the lies in MA., - the odd SLC story of the Olympics and his *appointement* by Wall Street to fix it - and the lies about his landscapers, and his mean campaigning just confirmed for me who he is. You could have picked a better candidate.
We are good citizens, just like you. But, you hide too much. Too secretive. Too coy by 11. Mormons own everything in Utah and that's weird for people.
Lastly, how dare he promote more war while he and his five sons just sit around, lay people off- and make more and more money.
THAT'S the reason we voted against Mitt.
Stop kidding yourselves.
Anonymous | 3:54 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
any thinking and reasonably inteliigent individual can only see the suspension
of the Romney campaign
as a victory for intolerance and the hate mongers of the nation. After all what can you expect of people who apparently saw nothing wrong with issuing an extermination order for a whole religion that remained on the books until 1974. This country may not deserve to survive and as long as the principles we claim espouse are only talking points for religion on Sundays. Nothing much will change in the future and some so -called good people of the world may stand at the last day with a lot of innnocent blood on their hands as some of their ancestors may have already had to do.
Too bad Mr. Romney could not have been judged on the basis of his ideas. But for some people apparently civilization and responsiblity are too much to ask. If this is an example of Christianity may God keep me far from it. I believe even Christ would be ashamed of the Christianity exhibited in the 2008 campaign by the "good people" of this country.
as a victory for intolerance and the hate mongers of the nation. After all what can you expect of people who apparently saw nothing wrong with issuing an extermination order for a whole religion that remained on the books until 1974. This country may not deserve to survive and as long as the principles we claim espouse are only talking points for religion on Sundays. Nothing much will change in the future and some so -called good people of the world may stand at the last day with a lot of innnocent blood on their hands as some of their ancestors may have already had to do.
Too bad Mr. Romney could not have been judged on the basis of his ideas. But for some people apparently civilization and responsiblity are too much to ask. If this is an example of Christianity may God keep me far from it. I believe even Christ would be ashamed of the Christianity exhibited in the 2008 campaign by the "good people" of this country.
Maried to a Mormon | 4:00 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I asked my wife, she didn't know, I hope one of you history experts would.
Who had the most wives: Mitt Romney's grandfather,B Young, J Smith jr. or
Warren Jeffs?
sabachthani | 4:08 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I certainly hope Mitt Romney does not stoop to the level of many Mormons on this
site and whine about how much everybody is a religious bigot, and how everybody
hates Mormons. The more you Mormons play that trumped up card, the more people
will actually start to hate you! The comments on this site reveal that Mormons
are more bigoted and condemning of their neighbors than anyone! Any claim to
being persecuted is simultaneously a condemnation of someone "in the
world" as the persecutor! That is why the Christian thing to do is what
Jesus did: "Father, forgive them..." so as not to condemn even His
enemies!
Dutchman | 4:10 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
60% of the population of Utah is Mormon. 90% of the Republicans voted for
Romney. I believe you can extrapolate that many non Mormons voted for Romney
again not because of religion but because of his work with the Olympics. I am
not convinced that people in Utah vote solely based on religion. Just try
running for mayor of Salt Lake City if you are a Mormon. There hasn't been
a Mormon elected since Ted Wilson nearly 25 years ago. Utah has also elected a
Jew and Catholics as governor in statewide races. One of our finest governors
was Scott Matheson, an inactive Mormon. Huckabee loses in Utah not because he
is a Baptist but because of what he has done to alienate Mormons. He came to
Utah in 1999 (?) when he was governor of Arkansas and participated with the
Southern Baptist Convention to rally support to their cause. It was very
"in your face". Then there was the remark
�Don�t Mormons believe that Jesus
Christ and Satan are bothers?� I don't believe most
Utahans care that McCain was once an Episcopalian and is now a Baptist.
Henry Drummond | 4:33 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I am not LDS, but I think the author's final paragraph makes far more sense
than 99% of what I've read about this issue. I really think this was a
missed opportunity for Mormons.
Almost everything I've read from LDS people trying to "defend the Church" has consisted of shrill complaints about how outrageous and unfair everyone is being to them. It would have done far more good in both the long run and the short run to just calmly state what you actually believe. This would have helped undo decades of mis-perceptions about how Mormons live and what they believe.
I think the author is quite right about reaching out to other communities to find out what is "bugging them" about Mormons. You might be surprised at what you find. For example for many Christians Baptism is an act of Man showing their faith in Christ. For Mormons it is more like contract. When Mormon missionaries tell people of other faiths their baptism is authorized its like telling someone they are not authorized to pray.
I think a better understanding of the beliefs of those you would convert would help a lot.
Thanks for a great article.
Almost everything I've read from LDS people trying to "defend the Church" has consisted of shrill complaints about how outrageous and unfair everyone is being to them. It would have done far more good in both the long run and the short run to just calmly state what you actually believe. This would have helped undo decades of mis-perceptions about how Mormons live and what they believe.
I think the author is quite right about reaching out to other communities to find out what is "bugging them" about Mormons. You might be surprised at what you find. For example for many Christians Baptism is an act of Man showing their faith in Christ. For Mormons it is more like contract. When Mormon missionaries tell people of other faiths their baptism is authorized its like telling someone they are not authorized to pray.
I think a better understanding of the beliefs of those you would convert would help a lot.
Thanks for a great article.
Relocated Southerner | 4:39 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Your percentages don't equal voter turn-out. 60% of the population may be
Mormon, but that includes children and non-registered voters. I still stand by
my original statement that Romney carried Utah in greater numbers due to all the
Mormons who went out in full force to support him. As far as Salt Lake's
politics, I understand it has a smaller population of Mormons than other areas
and more liberal overall in its demographics. I do agree with an earlier post,
though. Huckabee carried most of the Southern states as he is (a) a native of
the South and (b) an evangelical Christian. So the South basically voted for
one of their own, and Utah did the same.
As far as the "Jesus and Satan" statement, while it is doctrinally true, I do believe Huckabee said it the way he did strictly to stir up controversy. He knew the microphone was on, and he knew that, taken out of context, many people (especially evangelicals) would be very upset. That was a political ploy on his part, and I find his "apology" less than heartfelt.
As far as the "Jesus and Satan" statement, while it is doctrinally true, I do believe Huckabee said it the way he did strictly to stir up controversy. He knew the microphone was on, and he knew that, taken out of context, many people (especially evangelicals) would be very upset. That was a political ploy on his part, and I find his "apology" less than heartfelt.
Ref: Ready for the Net? | 4:48 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I couldn't agree more that there are many, many members who would do rather
poorly at representing the Church in on-line blogs. I'm sure that millions
would do great but there are many members who a) either don't really
understand LDS Church government or history b) don't have much talent in
explaining our theology in logical examples c) don't REALLY understand our
scriptures d) would be quickly prone to "bash" and criticize instead
of explaining and lifting our brothers and sisters. I've been blogging for
Romney and the Church as a whole for well over a year and I've seen good
and bad examples of LDS folks rising to the defense of the Church.
I agree that ONLY "bearing your testimony" probably won't cut it. Investigators need some biblical/scriptural evidence or some clarification of LDS history or some good/logical examples that emphasize reason and intelligence and THEN, by all means, say "I believe".
Romney running was a GREAT thing! Pres. Hinckley said it would be beneficial as well before his death. If you doubt that, your testimony is extremely weak.
Hang in there, people! Christ wasn't accepted either and wouldn't have wanted to be if it cost him his integrity.
I agree that ONLY "bearing your testimony" probably won't cut it. Investigators need some biblical/scriptural evidence or some clarification of LDS history or some good/logical examples that emphasize reason and intelligence and THEN, by all means, say "I believe".
Romney running was a GREAT thing! Pres. Hinckley said it would be beneficial as well before his death. If you doubt that, your testimony is extremely weak.
Hang in there, people! Christ wasn't accepted either and wouldn't have wanted to be if it cost him his integrity.
michael New Zealand | 5:03 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
To Maried to a Mormon
Please look it up on the internet, Liz Taylor has had 7 or more husbands. My GG Grandfather had 17 children and 10 wives, they all died of various illness and many years of life.
I am sure your wife prays and helps our people with more than the history of people and their marriages. You could learn more that from her I am sure. My wife is a Mormon too, she is interested in our marrage.
Michael
Please look it up on the internet, Liz Taylor has had 7 or more husbands. My GG Grandfather had 17 children and 10 wives, they all died of various illness and many years of life.
I am sure your wife prays and helps our people with more than the history of people and their marriages. You could learn more that from her I am sure. My wife is a Mormon too, she is interested in our marrage.
Michael
Why should we care | 5:23 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
what evangelicals think one writer asks? Well, we should care because
now(hopefully) people will open their eyes and see that we have a TWO party
system and that the Democrats, or okay, an independent, may actually have more
in common with their values than a conservative Republican. Republican
Evangelicals would never Vote for a Mormon, that's fine. I would not vote
for a Republican with this attitude going on. Maybe, when this is over, (though
I'm not counting on it) the evangelicals and other ultra conservative
republicans will see that they contributed to the election of a Democrat.
(Yippee!)
What the republicans are now left with are 1. A preacher who thinks the constitution should be re-written so it includes more "bible" and a has-been leftover GWB clone. Not a choice I would even consider.
What the republicans are now left with are 1. A preacher who thinks the constitution should be re-written so it includes more "bible" and a has-been leftover GWB clone. Not a choice I would even consider.
VA gal | 5:23 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I just read that McCain had an affair just like Guliani. It would have been
nice to have a man like Romney who has been a faithful husband and father.
mano | 5:56 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Romney was gracious: he complimented his opponents
more than once I heard him during debates..but none came back..except ron paul came to his side(figure of speech) concerning religion,etc!
He was exceptionally articulate..and showed it more than once..in fact i believe after watching about a dozen debates..he is brighter than all of them on both sides.His explanation of the insurance
program in mass. during his calif. debate was excellent.! He turned down his salary(olympics,mass. gov.) is mc cain,hillary. obama going to do that? He was very successful in the business world....looks,smart,wealthy---so if he wasnt liked..you just got a reminder of why!He is an
executive..not a gomer pyle like huckabee..so dont expect him to wear straw hat and say ya all come ..ya hear!Huckabee won many states in south..
you cant figure that out! duh! Iam a convert from the baptist church..and served a mission in the south !Dont tell me religion didnt play a role in the iowa, and south...I know better! Gov. Romney should run as an Independent...who needs the GOOFY
GOP, anyway, to give it's approval!
more than once I heard him during debates..but none came back..except ron paul came to his side(figure of speech) concerning religion,etc!
He was exceptionally articulate..and showed it more than once..in fact i believe after watching about a dozen debates..he is brighter than all of them on both sides.His explanation of the insurance
program in mass. during his calif. debate was excellent.! He turned down his salary(olympics,mass. gov.) is mc cain,hillary. obama going to do that? He was very successful in the business world....looks,smart,wealthy---so if he wasnt liked..you just got a reminder of why!He is an
executive..not a gomer pyle like huckabee..so dont expect him to wear straw hat and say ya all come ..ya hear!Huckabee won many states in south..
you cant figure that out! duh! Iam a convert from the baptist church..and served a mission in the south !Dont tell me religion didnt play a role in the iowa, and south...I know better! Gov. Romney should run as an Independent...who needs the GOOFY
GOP, anyway, to give it's approval!
Porter Rockwell from CA | 6:06 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Let's see if I got this right ...last time I checked, freedom of religion
was still part of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment (aka Bill of
Rights). Our nation's Founding Fathers wrote:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; of abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peacefully to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I still believe in the United States of America. God bless America!
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; of abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peacefully to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I still believe in the United States of America. God bless America!
Carol in Punta Gorda, Fl | 6:23 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I attended many churches before I joined the LDS Church.I have become a better
person because of it. The things we are taught are possitive. I would hope that
I wouldn't be judged by my Religion. There are way to many problems in this
country due to race and religion. Intolerence is wide spread.
We're not much better off than the mid Eastern parts of the country when it comes to Religious tolerence.
I know for a fact that Baptist Pastors do indeed preach and label us as a cult. Shame on them! I guess they fear that people just might be curious and investigate our church. This is one sure way to keep that from happening. I personally thought Romney was the best candidate and it had nothing to do with Religion. I might just have to pass this November. My heart isn't in this years choices. Carol
We're not much better off than the mid Eastern parts of the country when it comes to Religious tolerence.
I know for a fact that Baptist Pastors do indeed preach and label us as a cult. Shame on them! I guess they fear that people just might be curious and investigate our church. This is one sure way to keep that from happening. I personally thought Romney was the best candidate and it had nothing to do with Religion. I might just have to pass this November. My heart isn't in this years choices. Carol
Ronald A. Young | 6:44 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Some of it had to do with Mormonism some of it did not. This proves that the
Fundelmental Morons are just that. However all will have a chance to except the
true Gospel either in this life or the next. The Lemmings see Mormons as they
are told by their leaders to see Mormons. On the other side it is the same way
to an extent. How upset do you get if your child is invited to visit another
childs faith group either for a service or a Social Event. This weekend my
daughter is bringing a girl friend of hers to a Stake Dance. The girl had to go
see the Bishop last night to get approval. I have always let my kids go to
Vacation Bible Schools of other Faiths. Sometimes as many as 3 during a summer.
They have always made friends done well and learned a little bit about another
faith group. I thought it made them better Mormons because it gave them a deeper
understanding of what they had. But I always sent them just with Bibles, come in
peace. At the end No fear on either side. I know many different Pastors.
Omar Gonzalez | 6:53 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
my belief is not on discussion
and it's sad to realize
the the mayority of the american people doesn't understand that
we need good people to govern US it doesn't matter if is a Mormon or any other religion Mitt romney withdraw got me by surprise i thought he'll fight till the end
there were only two in my particular thinking there were two real candidates for our presidency Mitt /barack obama no more had the sencibility to understand North American People but baptist mess it up
and Mitt took a bad desition he things only on himself letting us the we who were prepared to follow him til the end .
amazed | 6:53 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
It's amazing how people think they know it all and have all the answers.
When the reality is that no one really knows, not even the media why various
people around the U.S. didn't vote for Mitt Romney. The answer to that
question would be as varied as the comments listed here. Different answers from
different people. But thanks for all your ignorant opinions.
I dont get it!!! | 7:01 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
The LDS Church calls all other religions an
�bomination' and somehow the LDS folk cant quite
understand why they are sometimes not liked. Also this totally amazes me. Mitt
Romney a LDS, well and truely beats Mike Huckabee a Baptist Preacher and SOMEHOW
the world is biased against Romney but NOT Huckabee. How can it be that people
on this blogg are saying that people, and in particular Southern Baptists are
anti LDS when in fact an LDS guy gets more votes and actually beats a
Baptist............ I really dont get it. Last but not least, Mitt lost because
he didnt stand firm on any one issue for long enough. The night before he pulled
the plug he stated that he was in for the long term and that he WOULDNT give up.
The next day he was gone and Huckabee was still there trying. You just couldnt
believe the guy, thats all, nothing more, nothing less!!
gene says | 7:24 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Romney has brains,looks,ability,major accomplishments,wealth(another sign of
smartness),gracious-complimented his opponents, oooh
there was this this teensy little thing ........
HE IS A MORMON !!! Look folks...not all folks held that as a thing...but enough did in the south and Iowa...TO GIVE HUCKABERRY a blockage against Mitt on
super tuesday! Iam a convert from baptist church to LDS..and i went on a mission to the south as LDS missionaery !! I speak from experience !One minister complained that his flock were not paying their bills that he was sending them !Romney and religion played a bigger role than you would expect!
He is the most qualified to be president, period!
Independent party and start real early! puke on the
GOP! Get their permission to run! hah!
there was this this teensy little thing ........
HE IS A MORMON !!! Look folks...not all folks held that as a thing...but enough did in the south and Iowa...TO GIVE HUCKABERRY a blockage against Mitt on
super tuesday! Iam a convert from baptist church to LDS..and i went on a mission to the south as LDS missionaery !! I speak from experience !One minister complained that his flock were not paying their bills that he was sending them !Romney and religion played a bigger role than you would expect!
He is the most qualified to be president, period!
Independent party and start real early! puke on the
GOP! Get their permission to run! hah!
shecky | 7:45 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
One might wonder why most LDS folks are still willing to hang with the
Republican Party.
Meshach | 8:08 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Shecky, you ask why the LDS remain republican. Well, my answer is what else is
there??? The Democratic Party has been hijacked by a nutty component of
liberalism and offers little for people who value the life of the unborn, want
to preserve marriage as between a man and a woman and don't want to give
America away to everybody else.
The Republican party is far from perfect and have in fact really given away alot of their virtues, but it is for now the only choice. I wonder what value a realy viable contributing 3rd part could do? It is an interesting thing to think about.
The Republican party is far from perfect and have in fact really given away alot of their virtues, but it is for now the only choice. I wonder what value a realy viable contributing 3rd part could do? It is an interesting thing to think about.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- RSL will play for MLS Cup tonight 3:06 a.m.
- Jazz outlast Pistons in overtime 3:06 a.m.
- Utah Utes whip SDSU 3:05 a.m.
- BYU records with win 3:05 a.m.
- RSL dancing with soccer stars 3:04 a.m.
- Cougars turn focus to dreaded rivals 3:04 a.m.
- Dixie State campus briefs 3:03 a.m.
- Weber State campus briefs 3:02 a.m.
- UVU campus briefs 3:01 a.m.
- BYU campus briefs 2:59 a.m.
- Glenn Beck to enter politics?
- Can BYU throw vs. Air Force?
- Cougars cruise to victory in Hawaii
- Huntsman blasts media over trip
- Police link alcohol to murder
- Christian leaders not backing down
- BYU records with win
- TCU still has a chance
- Orem man acquitted in tot's death
- Religion cited in deportation fight
- Buttars wants to limit gay rights laws
192 - Palin plans tour stop in Utah173
- Glenn Beck to enter politics?129
- Palin's book shows she's unqualified122
- Officer cleared in Cardall Taser case103
- BYU cuts Women's Research Inst.100
- Jazz finally win in San Antonio98
- BYU records with win95
- Utes knock off rival Aggies93
- Huntsman pleased with Obama87
Latest comments
Beck is extremely smart, he is selling books and is very popular on TV. All...
@Mick, the Federal Govt is run by corporations through contributions and...
Lets bond together and hope for a REAL celebration SUnday night, can hardly...
I was on the playground too and some teachers came out and called us all to...
B.Y.U. has been a consistent a top 25 ranked winner under Max Hall. Hall has...
Did Timp win four in a row or 4 in 4 years?
You have a lot of growing up to do, It seems like you have not cxperienced...
The proposed ethics law puts roughly the same burden on a legislator that a...
Hall ACTUALLY broke the all timme wins record vs WYO last week. I guess...
Sounds to me like Kraig Powell may be a candidate for resignation. So long,...
Advertisements
As soon as society adopts any monotheistic religion, tolerance goes out the window and its' prinicpals too.
I am not surprised that Romney got shafted by evangelicals. Consider, Southern Baptists are hiding their own names by calling themselves evangelicals. What did you expect to happen as soon as you got out from a place of subservience and tried to lead, you got squashed. The Republican party embraced Southern Baptist for their money, organization and numbers. The LDS was simply strung along and exploited.
If you wanted to be treated fairly, start up a third party.