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Sheet Music: 'What is This Thing That Men Call Death?'
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Becky | 5:52 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I wish there was a link where we could hear the song sung by the Choir. I have
printed the words and am thinking of framing it.
Roger | 8:23 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
It is a nice thought. There are many societies and religions that have nice
thoughts about life after death, maybe one of the nicest is the muslim idea.
Nevertheless, they are all just ideas, no one knows. We all know we will die so
the nice things we do in our lives is what is important. There are too many
churches who try to control their members by the fear of death and what will
happen to them if they do not follow in line with the church leaders dictates.
omachris | 8:56 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Becky, If you go to the BYUTV website and search for Pres. Hinckley's
funeral, I was able to find the choir singing this song almost 1/2 way through
the funeral.
It was beautiful!
It was beautiful!
Comments continue below
Truth can be known | 9:09 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
To Roger:
It can be more than just an idea or nice thought. You can know, because Heavenly Father is willing and able to tell you personally. You just have to be willing and able to listen with your heart and spirit instead of just with your mind and ears.
It can be more than just an idea or nice thought. You can know, because Heavenly Father is willing and able to tell you personally. You just have to be willing and able to listen with your heart and spirit instead of just with your mind and ears.
Roger | 10:57 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
To Truth can be know:
Thank you for your kind thoughts. When we study man's history it is amazing what deeds and believes man has commited believing he has received divine promptings, some good and some evil. But, the bottom line is no one knows. We may want or wish for things so much that we feel the over whelming presense of our desire but that is not God speaking to us. We need to distinguish between, desire, faith, hope and knowing. But, I hope your faith brings you happiness, and you will use it to a good end.
Thank you for your kind thoughts. When we study man's history it is amazing what deeds and believes man has commited believing he has received divine promptings, some good and some evil. But, the bottom line is no one knows. We may want or wish for things so much that we feel the over whelming presense of our desire but that is not God speaking to us. We need to distinguish between, desire, faith, hope and knowing. But, I hope your faith brings you happiness, and you will use it to a good end.
Truthmonger | 4:40 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
The simply truth is truth can be known.
The unfortunate truth is many people do not want to know to truth. Because then they have the excuse of doing and believing what they want, and it makes what ever they are doing or saying, Okay.
When a parent tells a child not touch something because it is hot, they are imparting a truth to that child.
The child may disregard that truth and say they can do anything they want, but in end they will learn that truth in a most painful way.
As children we sometimes do not understand why something is the truth, or think they are impinging on our freedoms and will not accept them.
As a parent we knbow better, we are very willing to impart truths to help our children, to guide our children, and to protect out children.
Some people will accept the truth readily, Other people will learn the the truth when they are ready.
And still others will learn it the hard way.
But one simple truth is the truth can be known, it can be learned. But only when a person wants to know and is ready for the truth.
The unfortunate truth is many people do not want to know to truth. Because then they have the excuse of doing and believing what they want, and it makes what ever they are doing or saying, Okay.
When a parent tells a child not touch something because it is hot, they are imparting a truth to that child.
The child may disregard that truth and say they can do anything they want, but in end they will learn that truth in a most painful way.
As children we sometimes do not understand why something is the truth, or think they are impinging on our freedoms and will not accept them.
As a parent we knbow better, we are very willing to impart truths to help our children, to guide our children, and to protect out children.
Some people will accept the truth readily, Other people will learn the the truth when they are ready.
And still others will learn it the hard way.
But one simple truth is the truth can be known, it can be learned. But only when a person wants to know and is ready for the truth.
ROBERT | 8:24 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
My many experiences at LDS funerals are that many are hopeful their loved ones
are in a better place but not one has shown that there is peace in death.
Jesus says that a person can only have life after death if they have put their faith in Jesus for their salvation (John 11:25-26).
If you ask most LDS if they were to die today, would they go to heaven. Most will tell you that they will not know until death because the LDS church teaches that a person cannot be saved until after death and cannot know if they have done all that is required until they die.
This sure doesn't sound like hopfulness and peace about death.
Jesus says that a person can only have life after death if they have put their faith in Jesus for their salvation (John 11:25-26).
If you ask most LDS if they were to die today, would they go to heaven. Most will tell you that they will not know until death because the LDS church teaches that a person cannot be saved until after death and cannot know if they have done all that is required until they die.
This sure doesn't sound like hopfulness and peace about death.
karen | 9:26 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
If you ask most LDS if they were to die today, would they go to that heaven
referred to by Jesus as Paradise, they would say, absolutely. That sounds like
hope and peace to me.
We believe and have been taught that as soon as a person who has faith in Jesus dies, he is met by and welcomed into heaven by Jesus himself. That sounds to me like hopefulness and peace about death.
We believe and have been taught that as soon as a person who has faith in Jesus dies, he is met by and welcomed into heaven by Jesus himself. That sounds to me like hopefulness and peace about death.
wrong | 1:47 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008
robert stated: If you ask most LDS if they were to die today, would they go to
heaven. Most will tell you that they will not know until death because the LDS
church teaches that a person cannot be saved until after death and cannot know
if they have done all that is required until they die.
karen stated: We believe and have been taught that as soon as a person who has faith in Jesus dies, he is met by and welcomed into heaven by Jesus himself. That sounds to me like hopefulness and peace about death.
wrong. both of you. Look up a quote by Bruce R McConkie. (and others) If we are headed in the right direction while living, then we will continue on that path after death and reach the celestial kingdom.
All who die are still on this earth plane. Some in paradise, some in prison. Prison being a separation from Christ. The work for the dead allows the righteous people in prison to cross over (as it where) if they accept the savig ordinances of the gospel. All of this is in the standard works and conference talks.
karen stated: We believe and have been taught that as soon as a person who has faith in Jesus dies, he is met by and welcomed into heaven by Jesus himself. That sounds to me like hopefulness and peace about death.
wrong. both of you. Look up a quote by Bruce R McConkie. (and others) If we are headed in the right direction while living, then we will continue on that path after death and reach the celestial kingdom.
All who die are still on this earth plane. Some in paradise, some in prison. Prison being a separation from Christ. The work for the dead allows the righteous people in prison to cross over (as it where) if they accept the savig ordinances of the gospel. All of this is in the standard works and conference talks.
ROBERT | 6:35 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008
The Book of Mormon says:
For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his: therefore the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power; AND THIS IS THE FINAL STATE OF THE WICKED.
It sounds as though the Book of Mormans says that if you haven't repented of all your sins before you die, you will be handed over to the devil for eternity. No works after death!
For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his: therefore the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power; AND THIS IS THE FINAL STATE OF THE WICKED.
It sounds as though the Book of Mormans says that if you haven't repented of all your sins before you die, you will be handed over to the devil for eternity. No works after death!
princessk | 2:03 p.m. Feb. 15, 2008
I just know that when i die, i will not just fade away. I am going to a place, a
beautiful and serene place. There i will continue to progress and work. There i
will meet loved ones gone ahead.
I am not afraid anymore,there has been many witnesses. I look forward to that time. I love this gospel,my perception on life has greatly improved with understanding that great plan of happiness.
I am not afraid anymore,there has been many witnesses. I look forward to that time. I love this gospel,my perception on life has greatly improved with understanding that great plan of happiness.
HEW | 11:29 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Everyone and everything that has lived, has either died or will die. There is
no getting around it. Death is a part of life that we cannot deny. No one has
come back to tell us (at least not recently) for sure what happens after we die.
Religions of all sorts try to explain it and have mostly sprung up as way to
beat or get around this fact that we die.
We live in God.... it is not that there is one God, but there is only God, of which we are a intimate part. Ultimately, it is a Mystery... we can know about God but never really know what God is. It is beyond our comprehension.
We have to trust God that death is OK. We must not fear death or come up with reasons or excuses why we are special and can get around death. We cannot. No matter what you believe, no one is special when it comes to death. Whatever it is, it must be OK.
Living our life in Love is the most critical dilemma we face.
We live in God.... it is not that there is one God, but there is only God, of which we are a intimate part. Ultimately, it is a Mystery... we can know about God but never really know what God is. It is beyond our comprehension.
We have to trust God that death is OK. We must not fear death or come up with reasons or excuses why we are special and can get around death. We cannot. No matter what you believe, no one is special when it comes to death. Whatever it is, it must be OK.
Living our life in Love is the most critical dilemma we face.
To ROBERT: | 7:58 a.m. Feb. 19, 2008
The words which you have included were spoken to people who had at one time
accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ and were at the time the words were spoken
living in apostacy. The warning was that when they meet the "awful
crisis" of death they will then be unable to say that they can repent and
return to God "... for that same spirit [attitude] which doth possess your
bodies ... that same spirit will have power..." in the world to come.
What is wickedness? IMO it is the willful rejection of the gospel of Christ in its purity and simplicity (not easy). And thus it is with the final state of the wicked: they have willfully rejected the gospel of Christ (i.e., they know it is the way of truth and they are rejecting it), setting it aside and thinking that it is foolishness or unreasonable to believe in such a thing, or that they are unwilling to conform to live it.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is that on conditions of repentance all men will be saved through the Atonement of Christ by obediences the ordinances of righteousness and holiness (including baptism).
What is wickedness? IMO it is the willful rejection of the gospel of Christ in its purity and simplicity (not easy). And thus it is with the final state of the wicked: they have willfully rejected the gospel of Christ (i.e., they know it is the way of truth and they are rejecting it), setting it aside and thinking that it is foolishness or unreasonable to believe in such a thing, or that they are unwilling to conform to live it.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is that on conditions of repentance all men will be saved through the Atonement of Christ by obediences the ordinances of righteousness and holiness (including baptism).
Augusta | 2:30 p.m. Feb. 19, 2008
Section 76 of the "Doctrine and Covenants" gives the best explanation
of what happens after death, that I have ever read.
ROBERT | 10:39 p.m. Feb. 19, 2008
To "To ROBERT" according to the Book of Mormon, Alma chapter 34 took
place "about 74 B.C." which is about 104 years before Jesus started
his ministry.
Jesus' gospel is His death, burial and resurrection (see 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) which happened about 107 years after the supposed writing of Alma chapter 34.
How can anyone apostasy from Jesus' gospel 107 years before Jesus' gospel was made avaliable to accept, let alone, apostasy from?
That would be the same as saying that you are currently driving a 2050 Ford pickup.
Before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection for the remission of sins, the Levitical law stated that remission of sins came through the shedding of animals blood. Read Leviticus chapter 1 thru chapter 8. Jesus' atonement was not avaliable to anyone until His death on the cross.
Jesus' gospel is His death, burial and resurrection (see 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) which happened about 107 years after the supposed writing of Alma chapter 34.
How can anyone apostasy from Jesus' gospel 107 years before Jesus' gospel was made avaliable to accept, let alone, apostasy from?
That would be the same as saying that you are currently driving a 2050 Ford pickup.
Before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection for the remission of sins, the Levitical law stated that remission of sins came through the shedding of animals blood. Read Leviticus chapter 1 thru chapter 8. Jesus' atonement was not avaliable to anyone until His death on the cross.
Also To Robert: | 1:26 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
You are right, Jesus'gospel is indeed His Atonement, including His Death,
Burial and Resurrection--including his suffering for our sins. This gospel had
indeed been known about and looked forward to by the people in the Book of
Mormon before Christ came. Christ's atonement had been known about and
prophesied of by prophets since the beginning of biblical history. Even the
Levitical Law was set up to symbolically teach about the atonement, that
remission of sins came though the shedding of of blood--Christ's blood.
And you are also correct that the atonement was not available until it happened.
But Christ was known of and worshiped before he came as the faithful understood
that when the promised event happened they too could be saved. They knew that
Christ would someday atone for their sins just as we look back and know that
over two thousand years ago he did atone for ours.
Does that knowledge give me peace as I look toward death? Absolutely. And it gives me peace as I try to live my life. I love Jesus Christ. He is the source of my peace.
Does that knowledge give me peace as I look toward death? Absolutely. And it gives me peace as I try to live my life. I love Jesus Christ. He is the source of my peace.
ROBERT | 6:06 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
To "Also To Robert" So you are admitting that your earlier statements
about Alma chapter 34 is incorrect as pertaining to those that apostasied from
Jesus' gospel before His gospel was available?
You would have to also agree that the Mosiah 4:2-3 passages is incorrect because the Nephites asked for Christ's atoning blood to be applied to their sins and in verse 3 were filled with joy having received remission of their sins, even though it was not yet possible.
The way it sounds to me, is that these passages were written with a post-understanding of the atonement, not a pre-understanding.
You would have to also agree that the Mosiah 4:2-3 passages is incorrect because the Nephites asked for Christ's atoning blood to be applied to their sins and in verse 3 were filled with joy having received remission of their sins, even though it was not yet possible.
The way it sounds to me, is that these passages were written with a post-understanding of the atonement, not a pre-understanding.
I have read | 9:42 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
.
the 'Miracle of Forgiveness' and according to that inspirational book I can not find the possiblity of forgiveness.
How is that possible?
I have yet, found anyone, who can convince me that obeying the law of repentance will assure me of forgiveness.
I see nothing in the BoM or MoF that show the way of true repentance or forgiveness.
HELP !!
.
.
the 'Miracle of Forgiveness' and according to that inspirational book I can not find the possiblity of forgiveness.
How is that possible?
I have yet, found anyone, who can convince me that obeying the law of repentance will assure me of forgiveness.
I see nothing in the BoM or MoF that show the way of true repentance or forgiveness.
HELP !!
.
.
HEW | 11:48 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
To forgive others, genuinely pray for them. If the thought of praying for them
is repulsive, ask God for the willingness to forgive. Admit to God your true
feelings and how you would like help with them. Pray for the other person all
the good things that you want for your own life. If the feelings don't
come, continue to pray for them and if you have to, fake it but go through the
exercise. Pray for the willingness to forgive.
Over time you will feel the resentment lessening and there will be a point that you know you have truly forgiven the other person. It may come all of a sudden. It may take two days or even two years. No assurances here, but if you are sincere in wanting the resentment gone and are willing to change your mind, God will help.
Over time you will feel the resentment lessening and there will be a point that you know you have truly forgiven the other person. It may come all of a sudden. It may take two days or even two years. No assurances here, but if you are sincere in wanting the resentment gone and are willing to change your mind, God will help.
Shauna | 10:43 a.m. Feb. 21, 2008
Becky, if you go to youtube dot com and type in "What is This Thing That
Men Call Death," you can see and hear a clip of the choir singing this hymn
from President Hinckely's funeral. I tried going to BYUTV's website
and couldn't figure out how to find it there.
Thank you | 11:13 a.m. Feb. 21, 2008
I have wanted to get a copy of these words and the music. I know there were
places but didn't know where to go. Thank you so much for sharing this
with us and for those you have wanted to get a copy.
AJH | 4:29 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008
I do not know what will happen after death, but i know i am ready. i do not
fear death. I look forward to it. it would be good to leave this life and enjoy
what is before me. I can't leave now because there are people that need
me. I have done all that i want to do for myself. So now I just serve my
family until ...
Franz | 9:25 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Robert: Re-read "Also to Robert". Perhaps you did not understand.
Every prophet of God from the beginning of the Bible taught about Christ and
believed in the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Book of Mormon only clarifies this
situation. They lived the teachings of Jesus Christ, as taught through
God's prophets, thousands of years before Christ's coming. To say that
the Atonment only applies to those living after Christ died, is to say that
everybody who lived and died before that time will be judged by a different
standard. The truth; the gospel; is eternal. Those who lived before, looked
forward to Jesus Christ; those who lived after, looked back on Jesus Christ.
Every prophet before and after Christ has taught that salvation comes only
through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. If the Levitical law were sufficient,
there would be no need for Jesus Christ. Paul taught this very clearly, and it
is only more clearly taught in the Book of Mormon (see 2 Nephi 25:23-26).
ROBERT | 7:22 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
To "Franz" The Levitical law ended at the cross. Those that were found
righteous through their faith in God (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, ect) that died
before the cross could not recieve Jesus's atonement or remission of sins
through Jesus's atonement until the cross. The shedding of animal's
blood only covered sin until Jesus' death on the cross. Then those that
died with faith before the cross received the atonement and remission of sins
only after Jesus'death on the cross.
No one could receive remission of sins through the atonement until the cross.
That is why those Book of Mormon passages are incorrect by saying that they received remission of sins through Jesus' atonement before it ever happened. That's what the Levitical law was for until the cross.
2 Nephi 25:23 says that you can't receive God's free gift of grace until you have done all that you can do! That doesn't sound like a free gift to me?
No one could receive remission of sins through the atonement until the cross.
That is why those Book of Mormon passages are incorrect by saying that they received remission of sins through Jesus' atonement before it ever happened. That's what the Levitical law was for until the cross.
2 Nephi 25:23 says that you can't receive God's free gift of grace until you have done all that you can do! That doesn't sound like a free gift to me?
ROBERT | 8:16 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
To "I have read" I hope this helps you understand repentance.
Repentance comes through faith not by any laws.
Galatians 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ , and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall now flesh be justified.
Ephesians 2:8-9 says, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the (gift) of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 6:23 says, the wages of sin is death, but the (gift) of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
And Jesus said in John 5:24 that if you put your faith in Him you will pass from death unto life.
Repentance comes through faith in Jesus by God's gift of grace and then your death penalty for sin will be removed and you will pass from a sinful death into a sinless life paid for by the blood of Jesus and obtained by your faith in Him.
Galatians 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ , and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall now flesh be justified.
Ephesians 2:8-9 says, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the (gift) of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 6:23 says, the wages of sin is death, but the (gift) of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
And Jesus said in John 5:24 that if you put your faith in Him you will pass from death unto life.
Repentance comes through faith in Jesus by God's gift of grace and then your death penalty for sin will be removed and you will pass from a sinful death into a sinless life paid for by the blood of Jesus and obtained by your faith in Him.
Meledie Knopf | 7:27 a.m. Feb. 29, 2008
What a wonderful gift to receive from two beautiful families! I lost my husband
in November and my Prophet in February. I miss both of them terribly but know,
without a doubt, I will see them again! It was my honor to have President
Hinckley a big part of my life because I truly looked to him for guidance in
this decaying world. To have known him was OUR blessing, OUR privilege, OUR gift
from a loving God!!! He was not only the true prophet of God but a true friend
to all. We should all be forever grateful to have his incredible life indelibly
imprinted on our hearts!
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