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Gay Mormons request meeting with Pres. Monson
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Why? | 7:37 a.m. Feb. 12, 2008
I find it interesting that so many non-Mormons and anti-Mormons are posting
comments on an article about Gay Mormons (LDS) requesting a meeting with the LDS
Church President Monson. If you disagree so much with the LDS Church, why do you
read or bother to comment on articles that seem to involve LDS members?
Do you hope (by your bigotry, hatred and name calling) to persuade the LDS community to accept your homosexual actions as newly sanctioned by GOD? If you can get the LDS Church to change the foundations of faith and the importance of family, what have you accomplished?
Do you hope (by your bigotry, hatred and name calling) to persuade the LDS community to accept your homosexual actions as newly sanctioned by GOD? If you can get the LDS Church to change the foundations of faith and the importance of family, what have you accomplished?
RE: RangerGordon | 8:52 a.m. Feb. 12, 2008
Sounds reasonable. It's not necessarily all about reason, but that's
as far as reason can get us. Battling truths. Good way of putting it. And
that's where we make too many of our fatal errors--the religious
justification for slavery is a great case in point!--in assuming our reason
alone, combined with our past traditions and social constructions, have given us
Ultimate and Eternal Truth.
Sometimes we're wrong when we build those small-t truths for ourselves. One such small-t truth is the belief among many that heterosexuals are somehow inherently better in God's eyes than homosexuals by virtue of that difference alone. Yes, the sin of homosexuality keeps people from God--as does greed, worshipping idols, breaking the Sabbath, failing to honor our parents, falsely swearing, etc., etc.
So there are so many OTHER ways for us hetero/homosexuals to sin that neither need point fingers in judgment--much less cast the first stone. Instead, we should treat each other with the same mercy we'd want for ourselves.
Bottom line on Truth: If Christ taught it, it's Eternally True. Sometimes we take those teachings and make our own "truths"--which we should change when we see they actually conflict with Truth.
Sometimes we're wrong when we build those small-t truths for ourselves. One such small-t truth is the belief among many that heterosexuals are somehow inherently better in God's eyes than homosexuals by virtue of that difference alone. Yes, the sin of homosexuality keeps people from God--as does greed, worshipping idols, breaking the Sabbath, failing to honor our parents, falsely swearing, etc., etc.
So there are so many OTHER ways for us hetero/homosexuals to sin that neither need point fingers in judgment--much less cast the first stone. Instead, we should treat each other with the same mercy we'd want for ourselves.
Bottom line on Truth: If Christ taught it, it's Eternally True. Sometimes we take those teachings and make our own "truths"--which we should change when we see they actually conflict with Truth.
Comments continue below
Kevin | 9:26 a.m. Feb. 12, 2008
I'll answer "Why?'s" question, "If you disagree so much
with the LDS Church, why do you read or bother to comment on articles that seem
to involve LDS members?"
Answer: Because the LD Church has crossed the line, using its wealth and power, in spite of its tax-free status, to affect the laws and constitutions of this land that affect my life. The evangelicals have done the same. Expect increasingly louder criticism.
Answer: Because the LD Church has crossed the line, using its wealth and power, in spite of its tax-free status, to affect the laws and constitutions of this land that affect my life. The evangelicals have done the same. Expect increasingly louder criticism.
Ryan | 10:02 a.m. Feb. 12, 2008
Yes I am the same Ryan from above.
I think many are confusing truth for compassion and love as well as charity. If Mormon and Moroni were so in depth in talking about charity being the pure love of Christ, then many on this board really needs to go back and reread what they said.
I find that this discussion is more about whose "truth" is right rather than doing the right thing. Charity requires actions not speeches.
What I think we all need to do is answer a few questions:
1. Did I choose to be gay or did I choose to be straight?
2. Are my actions and words in opposition to how Christ really wants me to act toward others?
3. Am I making rash judgments without trying to understand the other side?
4. Does my child feel secure enough to come to me with any problem including same sex attraction?
I do not hate my family for disowning me, I just feel sorry that they chose to take that path. It shows me that the pure love of Christ is not there as they proclaim to be. See follow up
I think many are confusing truth for compassion and love as well as charity. If Mormon and Moroni were so in depth in talking about charity being the pure love of Christ, then many on this board really needs to go back and reread what they said.
I find that this discussion is more about whose "truth" is right rather than doing the right thing. Charity requires actions not speeches.
What I think we all need to do is answer a few questions:
1. Did I choose to be gay or did I choose to be straight?
2. Are my actions and words in opposition to how Christ really wants me to act toward others?
3. Am I making rash judgments without trying to understand the other side?
4. Does my child feel secure enough to come to me with any problem including same sex attraction?
I do not hate my family for disowning me, I just feel sorry that they chose to take that path. It shows me that the pure love of Christ is not there as they proclaim to be. See follow up
Ryan | 10:05 a.m. Feb. 12, 2008
I think that we all need to reconsider what the pure love of Christ is. I look
at it this way, I treat my fellow man the way I want to be treated. I am
courteous when I am driving even when I am upset. I treat others honestly
because I want to be treated honestly.
This is really just the beginning. Many things have been said about gay's in the Mormon Church. I suggest everyone watch the show "Anyone and Everyone". There is an LDS couple in there that you should pay attention to, but also listen to the other stories and how religion treats gays. This is not just a LDS issue it is a Christlike issue.
This is really just the beginning. Many things have been said about gay's in the Mormon Church. I suggest everyone watch the show "Anyone and Everyone". There is an LDS couple in there that you should pay attention to, but also listen to the other stories and how religion treats gays. This is not just a LDS issue it is a Christlike issue.
Lyle | 12:05 p.m. Feb. 12, 2008
Here we go again... Mormons so full of themselves and their knowledge of the
"truth" telling anyone who disagrees or sees things differently to
"move out of Utah" or "start your own Church" - just go away
and the problem is solved.
How very telling this is. A Christian Church? Doesn't appear the fruits are there to support that contention!
How very telling this is. A Christian Church? Doesn't appear the fruits are there to support that contention!
Need for Compassion III | 2:40 p.m. Feb. 12, 2008
Sorry, got to jump in again. Ryan, good perspective. What some people are
missing here is the need to *live* those principles from Moroni. Truth is
something that's lived, not just talked about. True compassion and charity
isn't an abstract thing we talk about in Sunday School and then forget
about for the rest of the week. It's a real thing we should be taking with
us. If we want to talk about the truth, folks, *that's* the truth, whatever
else is. I don't know that I'm all that good at it, but at least
I've learned it's important.
I commend you for not hating those who didn't show you the compassion you needed and deserved. They were weak themselves and will hopefully learn better in time.
I commend you for not hating those who didn't show you the compassion you needed and deserved. They were weak themselves and will hopefully learn better in time.
Anonymous | 1:32 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I have (had) a very good friend who was gay. He also held a well deserved
current temple recomend and was celibate. That had not always been the case but
was when I knew him.
He was a convert to the church early in life and fell away for time. I have never met a lonelier person, but he hung in there and I did what I could to alleviate that loneliness, and I was glad that I could.
I went to the temple with him two or three times and we spent other time together when we could. He died in his fifties. I am certain that he has found healing rest and acceptance in the next life.
I am not gay and I do not approve of gay sexual conduct, nor do I approve of fornication or adultery. It is a matter of doing the best you can with what you have. He did!
He was a convert to the church early in life and fell away for time. I have never met a lonelier person, but he hung in there and I did what I could to alleviate that loneliness, and I was glad that I could.
I went to the temple with him two or three times and we spent other time together when we could. He died in his fifties. I am certain that he has found healing rest and acceptance in the next life.
I am not gay and I do not approve of gay sexual conduct, nor do I approve of fornication or adultery. It is a matter of doing the best you can with what you have. He did!
Bookaholic | 3:15 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Need for Love and Compassion--I second your comments.
I think we need to remember that we all have clay feet, and it's hypocritical to be casting stones when we are imperfect ourselves.
We are all God's children, and we should be understanding and supportive of each other in our struggles in life. I don't feel comfortable belittling others when I consider how many failings I have myself.
I battle my shortcomings, and I think I'm a pretty good person, but in no way do I consider myself entitled to look down my nose at others.
I think we need to remember that we all have clay feet, and it's hypocritical to be casting stones when we are imperfect ourselves.
We are all God's children, and we should be understanding and supportive of each other in our struggles in life. I don't feel comfortable belittling others when I consider how many failings I have myself.
I battle my shortcomings, and I think I'm a pretty good person, but in no way do I consider myself entitled to look down my nose at others.
Anonymous | 9:12 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
right on lyle...
to be honest, the more time i spend in utah, the more convinced i am that i have entered bizarro-land
to be honest, the more time i spend in utah, the more convinced i am that i have entered bizarro-land
Robo | 9:20 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
The church isn't a sanctuary for the already perfected, but a clinic for
the spiritually ill. Each one has their own unique weaknesses and sins that
require the balm of Christ's atonement. A person doesn't get into
Heaven by only committing "little" sins, but by committing no sins,
which is only possible through the Grace of Christ. Christ expects us to give
Him our hearts and wills, to do our best, and then He picks up the rest. We
just need to keep trying and have faith in Christ's words. We recognize
our sin, repent, and keep moving forward. If we back slide, we pick ourselves
up, have faith, and move forward again. Never give up. The power of the
Atonement is infinite. To identify sin as sin is not the same as hating the
sinner. I have been involved in many church disciplinary councils and I can
tell you that there is no meeting that has a greater spirit of love. The sin is
still sin and the appropriate action is taken, but the person is loved and
respected as a child of God.
nathandt | 9:22 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
To those above who hold the belief that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints is the Kingdom of God on Earth, and that you cannot change the will of
God, I ask you to consider the change that occurred in the 60's and
70's regarding blacks and the priesthood.
Before this, it was widely believed (and taught by Prophets), that blacks would never be able to receive the priesthood. They had various reasons for saying this, but it was said.
I am certain that many members of the church during that time also made comments about "The Immutable of God" regarding that issue.
Before this, it was widely believed (and taught by Prophets), that blacks would never be able to receive the priesthood. They had various reasons for saying this, but it was said.
I am certain that many members of the church during that time also made comments about "The Immutable of God" regarding that issue.
Anonymous | 9:40 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
There must be some reason why the same sex is attracted to one another?? I have
tried my hardest to figure this one out but have never understood it. I
don't find anything attractive about my same sex friends. In fact most of
them i'd like to punch in the face one in awhile...LOL!
I'd like NOT to be judgmental of these gay people, but I would also like to know if there is truly a real defect in their bodies, brains and genes that we are not aware of, that makes them this way?
I'd like NOT to be judgmental of these gay people, but I would also like to know if there is truly a real defect in their bodies, brains and genes that we are not aware of, that makes them this way?
Man get a grip | 9:54 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Let everyone worship how they want, let the church stand how it wants. have some
tolerance and don't be so deflective rather a little more reflective if you
do stand for truth ..let it shine...heck these guys are having a hard time with
straigth illegals so don't expect much in the way of love.
Judge Not | 10:42 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I am not gay but I would like the judgemental types here to experience same sex
attraction for a week and then hear what they have to say. I don't know why
some are born with attraction to the same sex and it is not our right to
judge.
I have some trouble fitting in to mormon culture myself. My hair is long and I like to think and form my own opinions.
I have some trouble fitting in to mormon culture myself. My hair is long and I like to think and form my own opinions.
Joe Mama | 10:51 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Why is that the gays think the church should change its position and accept them
for what they are? That way of thinking contradicts what is taught in the
bible, and the church should not have to change its position simply because
society accepts the gay lifestyle.
YOU have chosen that lifestyle - NOT the church, so don't think the church should change to accomodate you and your way of thinking. Are you looking for some sort of justification for your choice, or looking for some way to ease your guilt by thinking the church should find the gay lifestyle acceptable?
The church should not change its doctrine in order to make you feel better about yourself. And, it's not just the LDS church that finds the gay lifestyle an abomination, the Catholic church does as well. I don't see you guys trying to talk with the Pope to get him to change the Catholic church's stance on the topic. Don't try to force the church to justify your choice.
YOU have chosen that lifestyle - NOT the church, so don't think the church should change to accomodate you and your way of thinking. Are you looking for some sort of justification for your choice, or looking for some way to ease your guilt by thinking the church should find the gay lifestyle acceptable?
The church should not change its doctrine in order to make you feel better about yourself. And, it's not just the LDS church that finds the gay lifestyle an abomination, the Catholic church does as well. I don't see you guys trying to talk with the Pope to get him to change the Catholic church's stance on the topic. Don't try to force the church to justify your choice.
Utah Resident | 11:46 a.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Robo--you must not have gone to the wards I grew up in here in Utah--they were
Showcases of Saints, never Sanctuaries for Sinners.
BUJU | 1:36 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I really wish that all of you heterosexual, "righteous" Mormons could
feel what I feel every day. I've been active my whole life, served an
honorable mission, and was worthy in every way to serve. I've never looked
at porn, I didn't fool around with guys in high school, and yet I'm
still gay. I DIDN'T choose to feel this way. I've prayed, fasted,
been to the temple, talked to priesthood leaders, etc., and the feelings
haven't changed. To make it harder I've heard some of the meanest,
most biggoted, un-christlike comments you could imagine in Sunday School classes
and Elder's quorum lessons. So while so many of you are so quick to
condemn, I really wish you could walk in my (and lots of others) shoes for a
day, week, or month. YOU'RE HATRED AND BIGOTRY DO NOT HELP THOSE THAT DEAL
WITH THIS ISSUE. YOUR ATTITUDE DRIVES THEM AWAY FROM THE CHURCH AND FROM THE
ITS TEACHINGS, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT IS ANY LESS EVIL THAN BEING GAY!
Tiy Probably won't get | 1:39 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Acceptance here. So you will need to find your own path as so many have had to
do (including me). I'm sure you will find those that are willing to expand
their minds enough to say "we love you...just not your "sin", but
that would not (and was not)enough for me.
I have moved on to the people that are able to see beyond scriptures thousands of years old; able to see beyond a 19th century man's ideas; able to become enlightened in knowing that everybody's life and the ways that they are inside are just as precious as another.
We are everywhere...although it is hard to find us in many church groups.
Peace and love to you.
I have moved on to the people that are able to see beyond scriptures thousands of years old; able to see beyond a 19th century man's ideas; able to become enlightened in knowing that everybody's life and the ways that they are inside are just as precious as another.
We are everywhere...although it is hard to find us in many church groups.
Peace and love to you.
Annie | 2:04 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Re BUJU
I don't feel hatred to people like you. I just don't understand it. However, I believe that God loves all his children including you. I wish there was a simple answer to all this non-understanding of gay people, but don't think there is. It is good that you live the best you know how even though I don't understand it.
God bless.
I don't feel hatred to people like you. I just don't understand it. However, I believe that God loves all his children including you. I wish there was a simple answer to all this non-understanding of gay people, but don't think there is. It is good that you live the best you know how even though I don't understand it.
God bless.
Jesse | 2:57 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I'll start by saying that though I am not a member of the LDS, I am an
admirer of many of its aspects. That being said, I do find the rejection of
homosexuals or any so called "group" repugnant. I am very
heterosexual and basically conservative in my belief system, but some of the
best and most brilliant people I know are gay. To exclude them based on their
sexual orientation would be a loss. One of the several reasons I will not join
the LDS is because of the ever changing prophacies. Polygamy good, polygamy bad.
Blacks carry the mark of Cain, Blacks are alright. Who is to say that Mr.
Monson won't wake up tomarrow and say that he had some new
"revelaton". As for homosexuality being a choice, I could think of
few more disgusting "choices" as I believe most heterosexual people
would agree, especially if making it would potentially ruin your life, this one
and the next.
Dave | 3:40 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I find other women attractive. Sometimes they take my breath away. So, I should
act on my impulses and have multiple partners. How about polygamy? That way I
could have the women I want all the time.
I also like shooting moving targets. Dogs, cats, birds, etc. would be fun. So, if my impulses rule, then I should be allowed to shoot them.
Driving my car at excessive speed is a big thrill. Maybe I should start a group called Thrill Seekers and push for full rights to do as I please.
Sorry, but your arguments pleading sympathy don't fly. The well being of our society depends on all of us mastering our impulses and doing what's right for everyone.
When I see a pretty gal, I think of my wife's feelings and my influence on my children and stop. If I feel the urge to shoot a dog or cat, I think it has feelings, too and that God gave it life, and I leave it alone. Though I love to drive fast, I worry I might hurt someone else so I slow down.
Perhaps you ought to think of someone other than yourself for a change.
I also like shooting moving targets. Dogs, cats, birds, etc. would be fun. So, if my impulses rule, then I should be allowed to shoot them.
Driving my car at excessive speed is a big thrill. Maybe I should start a group called Thrill Seekers and push for full rights to do as I please.
Sorry, but your arguments pleading sympathy don't fly. The well being of our society depends on all of us mastering our impulses and doing what's right for everyone.
When I see a pretty gal, I think of my wife's feelings and my influence on my children and stop. If I feel the urge to shoot a dog or cat, I think it has feelings, too and that God gave it life, and I leave it alone. Though I love to drive fast, I worry I might hurt someone else so I slow down.
Perhaps you ought to think of someone other than yourself for a change.
Joe Mama | 3:48 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
RE: Jesse
President Monson may in fact wake up tomorrow morning and have some new revelation...that's what Prophets do. Do you believe in the Bible? If so, you cannot deny that the prophets of the Old Testament weren't providing the people with new and ever changing revelations. That's why it's so wonderful that we still have a prophet - God still speaks to his people, and as the times change, new information is needed to continually guide us in the right direction.
That being said - don't count on new revelation coming forth condoning or accepting gay lifestyles as that would be direct conflict with the Bible.
President Monson may in fact wake up tomorrow morning and have some new revelation...that's what Prophets do. Do you believe in the Bible? If so, you cannot deny that the prophets of the Old Testament weren't providing the people with new and ever changing revelations. That's why it's so wonderful that we still have a prophet - God still speaks to his people, and as the times change, new information is needed to continually guide us in the right direction.
That being said - don't count on new revelation coming forth condoning or accepting gay lifestyles as that would be direct conflict with the Bible.
Bryant | 4:16 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
To Dave | 3:40 p.m.,
You are so righteous and so far above the rest of us. I am almost tempted to worship you. What a fine example you are. (NOT)
Only one problem. You are not the epitome of humanity. Not even close. Others are different than you. That is why the "law" of your own mind does not rule the universe, although your comments suggest you would be thrilled if it did!
Projecting your own, isolated experience onto others, and then condemning them for not meeting YOUR standards of morality is at least arrogant, and at most inhumane. Perhaps you should consider your own words: "think of someone other than yourself for a change," and quit imposing your version of morality onto others and condemning them.
You are so righteous and so far above the rest of us. I am almost tempted to worship you. What a fine example you are. (NOT)
Only one problem. You are not the epitome of humanity. Not even close. Others are different than you. That is why the "law" of your own mind does not rule the universe, although your comments suggest you would be thrilled if it did!
Projecting your own, isolated experience onto others, and then condemning them for not meeting YOUR standards of morality is at least arrogant, and at most inhumane. Perhaps you should consider your own words: "think of someone other than yourself for a change," and quit imposing your version of morality onto others and condemning them.
Anonymous | 4:31 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
dave, the difference between this issue & your "argument" is that
the things you say you want to do would hurt (or kill) someone (or something)
else. I fail to see how 2 people who love each other being together could hurt
anyone else.
Anonymous | 4:55 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
to Ryan:
It is unfortunate that you were not supported by your family. This is not church doctrine. It is that god�s doctrine concerning chastity does not have a plasticity to bend to the will of humanity. Your place in gods plan is between you and god. If you believe the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and his Prophets then you know what is right, but it does not need to be fair. People are �born� with tendencies all the time that offend god (natural man). It is us who must have plasticity and be shaped by god. I hope your family will repent and except you as their child. I hope you can forgive your parents. I hope that communities can see the pain that comes with prejudice and persecution and have greater love and tolerance. Christ did not excuse immorality, but he did not cast the first stone either. You must choose your course. If you do not believe in god then acceptance in the LDS or any church is not important. I wish you and the gay community well. I hope you find greater kindness then has been afforded you.
It is unfortunate that you were not supported by your family. This is not church doctrine. It is that god�s doctrine concerning chastity does not have a plasticity to bend to the will of humanity. Your place in gods plan is between you and god. If you believe the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and his Prophets then you know what is right, but it does not need to be fair. People are �born� with tendencies all the time that offend god (natural man). It is us who must have plasticity and be shaped by god. I hope your family will repent and except you as their child. I hope you can forgive your parents. I hope that communities can see the pain that comes with prejudice and persecution and have greater love and tolerance. Christ did not excuse immorality, but he did not cast the first stone either. You must choose your course. If you do not believe in god then acceptance in the LDS or any church is not important. I wish you and the gay community well. I hope you find greater kindness then has been afforded you.
Read the article again | 5:24 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I don't think Affirmation wants to President Monson to change LDS doctrine,
they just want to see if they can make better how the church helps and supports
members who have same sex attraction. read the article again
Cheap | 5:22 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Hey, I love the gays just as much as I love everyone else. As such I can speak
with candor about them. They are really lame for pulling this garbage. All they
want to do is get right on the new Prophet and paint him as a insensitive guy
because he won't tell them everything they want to hear. I mean, hey, be
gay if you want to, but don't try to use cheap PR techniques to generate
bad press for people, or churches, who aren't going to change, or give you
what you want. That's just total bushleague. You should be ashamed of
yourselves, not for being gay, but for being lame.
Who knows? | 5:28 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I am afraid if polygamy was ever reinstated into the church you would see woman
leaving by the dozens. It was a VILE practice and nothing no NORMAL woman would
ever want... I would have to say though; in this respect that new revelation is
good to have. Who knows what the church will decide to do with the homosexual
group. There are many good people among them that I have personally known, so I
cannot condemn something I do not understand. It�s not like
there is just one or 2 of them out there. There are millions. So what to do
next?
Suggestion | 5:25 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
I hae a suggestion. For those of you who are looking to overcome this challenge
may I suggest going on more dates? Even try kissing a girl. Keep on doing it! It
might eventually work.
I'm not trying to be a jerk over this. Really. I'm just thinking that perhaps more exposure to women may help you overcome your challenge of SSA.
I'm not trying to be a jerk over this. Really. I'm just thinking that perhaps more exposure to women may help you overcome your challenge of SSA.
Debbie | 5:42 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
To: suggestion
What if you are a woman? Do you suggest the same?
What if you are a woman? Do you suggest the same?
Anonymous | 6:19 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
To all �I didn�t choose to be
gay� people out there:
While I have no idea what you go through, It is clear that there are people who feel your pain. People who can not be attracted to any one but children (pedophiles) have a similar problem. They do not fit into society. You will act as if it is a horrible thing to be compared to these people but they are just like everyone else. They grew up in normal society and had normal family relationships and find that they are in a social pickle. I�m sure they will use all the same arguments you use. In fact, they have a movement that is using the same underground framework the gay movement used. In fact, many of these people are gay men who are attracted to young boys.
My questions are these:
Should these people be �treated�?
Did these people choose this or where they born with it?
Do these people have to live a life with out love, while you are accepted?
Should society accept you and shun them?
When do we draw a line of acceptable behavior?
Does attraction rule?
Does instinct rule?
Just a thought.
While I have no idea what you go through, It is clear that there are people who feel your pain. People who can not be attracted to any one but children (pedophiles) have a similar problem. They do not fit into society. You will act as if it is a horrible thing to be compared to these people but they are just like everyone else. They grew up in normal society and had normal family relationships and find that they are in a social pickle. I�m sure they will use all the same arguments you use. In fact, they have a movement that is using the same underground framework the gay movement used. In fact, many of these people are gay men who are attracted to young boys.
My questions are these:
Should these people be �treated�?
Did these people choose this or where they born with it?
Do these people have to live a life with out love, while you are accepted?
Should society accept you and shun them?
When do we draw a line of acceptable behavior?
Does attraction rule?
Does instinct rule?
Just a thought.
I'm not Gay | 6:48 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
To Anonymous
Try writing something we can understand, and let us know what the heck you are talking about. Whewwwwwweeeee!
I don't for one minute think all gays are child molesters. That is weird! If you know of a gay who is a child molester, you had better go report it to the police. I have personally known many gays and none of them were ever interested in children. Where did you get your information?
Try writing something we can understand, and let us know what the heck you are talking about. Whewwwwwweeeee!
I don't for one minute think all gays are child molesters. That is weird! If you know of a gay who is a child molester, you had better go report it to the police. I have personally known many gays and none of them were ever interested in children. Where did you get your information?
to: Anonymous | 7:07 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
There is no comparison to homosexual behavior of consenting adults and preying
on minors. Your line of reasoning is flawed from the begining thus making your
entire argument null and void. In addition, you need to give proof that
"many of these people are gay men who are attracted to young boys." if
you are going to make such a bold statement. It is dangerous to promote
stereotypes that aren't true.
Latter-Day Saint contributor | 7:17 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
During Christ's ministry he repeatedly lifted the law of Moses to reality.
Mathew 5:28 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt
not commit adultery:29 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to
lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
again he lifts the law of Moses verse 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put
away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 31 But I say unto you,
that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication,
causeth his wife to commit adultery". What about a former wife of a person
who veered into homosexuality? What about her pain? What about her children?
More emphasis needs to go to those damaged by infidelity in whatever form it
exists. The posts that say that this group can change nothing are correct. We
don't pray to God to somehow change God, we pray to God so that we can
better know how to become like him.
Anonymous | 7:30 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
to: I'm not Gay
You have not been paying attention to the world then. Movies are showing with greater intensity and frequency this situation. The actor who played Ron Weasly played such a part. Kevin Bacon played such a part. It is not just about child molestation, but attraction. Child pornography is as big if not bigger then adult pornography. Signs of this exist in our government leaders and churches leaders. Think of the Pages (boys) in the US congress. How often do we hear about priests and ministers getting caught? The Catholic Church recently paid a very large settlement. What about the teacher in Washington who had a relationship with a student and went to prison, and had a baby with him. See, you are acting like people acted 60 years ago about gay relationships, before gays got organized. I�m not saying gays are child molesters. I�m saying there are many people who are only attracted to children/young teens. It�s why we have age of consent laws, which by the way averaged around 12 years old only a century or so ago. There are organized groups who �groom� young teens. Open your eyes.
You have not been paying attention to the world then. Movies are showing with greater intensity and frequency this situation. The actor who played Ron Weasly played such a part. Kevin Bacon played such a part. It is not just about child molestation, but attraction. Child pornography is as big if not bigger then adult pornography. Signs of this exist in our government leaders and churches leaders. Think of the Pages (boys) in the US congress. How often do we hear about priests and ministers getting caught? The Catholic Church recently paid a very large settlement. What about the teacher in Washington who had a relationship with a student and went to prison, and had a baby with him. See, you are acting like people acted 60 years ago about gay relationships, before gays got organized. I�m not saying gays are child molesters. I�m saying there are many people who are only attracted to children/young teens. It�s why we have age of consent laws, which by the way averaged around 12 years old only a century or so ago. There are organized groups who �groom� young teens. Open your eyes.
Jumper | 7:58 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
RE Latter Day Saint contributor
Why wasn't the same train of thought used in the LDS church when men took plural wives and broke the hearts of their wives? I am seeing little double standards going on here. Oh! Perhaps woman back in those days didn't have feelings and were thought to be less then a man, with NO HUMAN feelings whatsoever. I suppose that was proved wrong! I don't want to here any contradictions on here.
Why wasn't the same train of thought used in the LDS church when men took plural wives and broke the hearts of their wives? I am seeing little double standards going on here. Oh! Perhaps woman back in those days didn't have feelings and were thought to be less then a man, with NO HUMAN feelings whatsoever. I suppose that was proved wrong! I don't want to here any contradictions on here.
Ruben | 8:28 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Gays are not a good thing no matter how you look at it. It is sad for those who
are hopelessly gay oriented through to fault of their own, but to give
recognition to the gay life style is bad all the way around. Gays are a sub
species and perhaps the best solution is for them to find an island state where
they can all live together in their special world.
Anonymous | 9:21 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Woohooo. Homosexuals are here to stay. Its really supprising how many of my
comps from the mish have come out of the closet.... wierd.
Hey now. | 11:14 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
Polygamy is a separate subject. My great great grandmother and her sister were
2nd & 3rd wives, over 21, and had no other chance to marry. It was a
blessing to them back then. It wasn't a matter of lust, but of
responsibility for my great great grandfather. As for SSA persons, and all
other people in the human family, born into a fallen world: we all have our own
things to deal with. The problem is that these things have the potential to
slow our progression. We want to progress...if I act upon my impulses that are
contrary to the laws of God, my progression is regressive. We're all dealt
a hand, many get a rotten hand. People are free to choose their path. We must
all deal with the results of our choices. It is an individual and sometimes
lonely trip through life. No one else can really do it for us. There are a lot
of things wrong in this world. I won't judge others...but some groups can
get really militant and demanding...the Kansas anti-gay group are equally out of
line...Pres. Monson (an extraordinary person)is really getting baptized by fire
in his first few weeks...
Anonymous | 11:31 p.m. Feb. 13, 2008
To: To Anonymous
�There is no comparison to homosexual behavior of consenting adults and preying on minors. Your line of reasoning is flawed from the begining thus making your entire argument null and void.�
This artical is about the churches view of Homosexuality. While I can�t speak for Pres. Monson. The bible does not make a distintion of gods view to the sins of child abuse and homsexuality.
�In addition, you need to give proof that "many of these people are gay men who are attracted to young boys." if you are going to make such a bold statement. It is dangerous to promote stereotypes that aren't true�
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)
It is disigned to remove age of consent laws.
"end the oppression of men and boys who have freely chosen mutually consenting relationships,"
"sexual freedom for all." slogan
This particular group formed as far back as the early eighties but in the nineties heavy police action forced them under ground. I doubt they had a change of heart.
�The Gay and Lesbian Community Center of Pittsburg(GLCC) procured public funds and by their own admission promote and recruit underage minors into a sex life.�
�There is no comparison to homosexual behavior of consenting adults and preying on minors. Your line of reasoning is flawed from the begining thus making your entire argument null and void.�
This artical is about the churches view of Homosexuality. While I can�t speak for Pres. Monson. The bible does not make a distintion of gods view to the sins of child abuse and homsexuality.
�In addition, you need to give proof that "many of these people are gay men who are attracted to young boys." if you are going to make such a bold statement. It is dangerous to promote stereotypes that aren't true�
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)
It is disigned to remove age of consent laws.
"end the oppression of men and boys who have freely chosen mutually consenting relationships,"
"sexual freedom for all." slogan
This particular group formed as far back as the early eighties but in the nineties heavy police action forced them under ground. I doubt they had a change of heart.
�The Gay and Lesbian Community Center of Pittsburg(GLCC) procured public funds and by their own admission promote and recruit underage minors into a sex life.�
yup! | 8:48 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008
You are not born gay...there is something that happens in your life that makes
you gay...I believe it's a proven scientific fact??
I think that no matter what your sexual preference is, we should all accept each other. I am LDS and I have a gay friend. I don't agree with everything he does, but I do respect him, and he respects me. Let's all just be nice to those who we say are "different." I don't understand why people are so afraid of people who are different from themselves!
I think that no matter what your sexual preference is, we should all accept each other. I am LDS and I have a gay friend. I don't agree with everything he does, but I do respect him, and he respects me. Let's all just be nice to those who we say are "different." I don't understand why people are so afraid of people who are different from themselves!
Gay RM | 9:10 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008
I was raised a Mormon and even went on a mission. I've always been
attracted to other men. I did not choose it, it was something I was born with.
For years I have struggled trying to be "normal" in the sites of my
fellow Mormons. Comments on this board only solidify that Mormon's think
homosexuals or not normals and an abomination. It's love one another unless
your gay in the Mormon church. It's this attitude that made me leave the
church.
It's been 5 years now that I have left the church and I have found a life full of happiness and fufillment. Something that the church never could provide.
It's been 5 years now that I have left the church and I have found a life full of happiness and fufillment. Something that the church never could provide.
Help them | 11:11 a.m. Feb. 14, 2008
We need to help them understand that when they were awkward adolescents,
wondering why they were feeling so weird, someone one jumped in and offered them
an "alternative lifestyle" as an answer to why they were feeling that
way. Instead of letting them learn that it would pass and things would even
out. So then they embraced it for a while until it became habitual.
The church will have compassion to help but will NEVER ever treat a deviant lifestyle as normal.
Let's be honest, that's not really what the popular gay agenda wants anyway. They don't want to be treated normal. They want to be treated SPECIAL.
The church will have compassion to help but will NEVER ever treat a deviant lifestyle as normal.
Let's be honest, that's not really what the popular gay agenda wants anyway. They don't want to be treated normal. They want to be treated SPECIAL.
Ariel | 12:10 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008
To Gay RM
There no such thing as normal. Everyone struggles with their own problems all their life.
You gave in rather than continue the struggle.
May God Bless. Happiness and fulfillment is where you find it. You found it outside rather than inside. It's in both places, the commonality is you.
There no such thing as normal. Everyone struggles with their own problems all their life.
You gave in rather than continue the struggle.
May God Bless. Happiness and fulfillment is where you find it. You found it outside rather than inside. It's in both places, the commonality is you.
to Duh | 12:44 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008
"It really puzzles my mind when I hear of groups that support a deviant
lifestyle yet they claim to be Christian?!?"
Christ was accepting of all. He knew every man was a sinner. Your "profit" is even a sinner. It is not your duty to judge others. Christians follow the teaching the Christ. It doesn't appear that you are following those teachings.
Christ was accepting of all. He knew every man was a sinner. Your "profit" is even a sinner. It is not your duty to judge others. Christians follow the teaching the Christ. It doesn't appear that you are following those teachings.
Anonymous | 1:12 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008
I can't believe that people here are condemning each other left and right.
I couldn't care less if you're straight, gay, bi or not�if you're seeking acceptance from the Lord, you need to be living the commandments of the Lord. God is God, and to look upon sin with the least degree of allowance would make him not God.
If you have absolutely no intentions of trying to change and obey the Lord's laws or counsels, and just want the church to change its policy, you are wasting your time.
I couldn't care less if you're straight, gay, bi or not�if you're seeking acceptance from the Lord, you need to be living the commandments of the Lord. God is God, and to look upon sin with the least degree of allowance would make him not God.
If you have absolutely no intentions of trying to change and obey the Lord's laws or counsels, and just want the church to change its policy, you are wasting your time.
buju | 1:10 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008
It amazes me that all of these straight people seem to be experts on why people
become gay. It is amazing how quickly they judge without any empathy. I firmly
believe that our salvation will be equally, if not more dependent, on how we
treat others than who we chose to love. There seems to be this misconception in
the church that you can be rude and still receive salvation, however the last
time I checked the two great commandments deal with how we treat others.
Don't fool yourself into thinking you can be saved by gossiping, name
calling, and hating people who are different any more than a gay person can be
saved.
BLAH BLAH | 1:13 p.m. Feb. 14, 2008
boring topic
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Leviticus 18:22,Romans 1:24-29 and 32,1Thessalonians 4:3 and Petet, John and the book of Revelations are full of references regarding sexual sins. Those who know the workd of God will never change their views regarding sexual immoratities. But, there's room for all at the cross through repentance.