RE: Conrad HewardRemember Jonestown? A good example of blind
faith. A la let's all drink poison because our spiritual leader said it's best
for us. Aren't we also counseled to pray for personal revelation? Most church
leaders are good men and women, whom are very unselfish. They should be
respected. However,until church leaders are robots, they're still human. Human
beings make mistakes, even highly spiritual ones.
Those who know the least, know it the loudest.Some of the posts were
plain way out in left field. Don't guess if you don't know, it makes you look
like a fool.
To What Mistakes,Such a process does not need to be called mistaken
or result in blame unless the leaders claim divine revelation from God and
in-errancy in leading their organization ("the prophets will never lead the
Church astray"). Then blame is significant and mistakes are important!
Why does a process that gets changed as more information is made available and
where valid authority is exercised in initial and further review have to have
anyone to blame or be called mistaken.
To Ed Drood,Your description of the process is excellent. And it
puts the blame where it belongs: on the top leadership of the Church.
Ultimately, their flawed choice of this man as a bishop (and all the other
flawed choices of uninspired, sinful, bad people in Church leadership callings)
is the problem.I guess we would expect more from men who have some
unique revelation from God.
TO Suspend the Bishop, who wrote, "Now, can we suspend that bishop? A man who
would ruin a kid's college career over a few missed sacrament meetings (if
that's what happened) doesn't belong in that office."That is a
remarkable thing to ask. Pause for a moment to consider how bishops are called
and approved. A stake president recommends a bishop via communication to the
Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. That
combined council considers the proposed bishop, discusses the ward and their
impressions upon receiving the recommendation. Then those 15 men pray and
receive confirmation of the selection before extending their approval of the
stake president's recommendation. The bishop is then presented to his ward for
a sustaining vote. The ward sustains not only the man called as bishop but also
sustains the decision of the Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the
Twelve. Now, knowing that process, if you advocate "suspending" a bishop, are
you not assuming authority to judge that lies solely with the Council that
selected him? If there is cause to correct a bishop, it will be done by them.
Good enough for me.
The idea that we are not to judge, in order to then not be judged, is often
misused, as it seems to in this case. Are we to then let all those that commit
crimes, break rules go unjudged, potentially unpunished? Sorry, fact is our
society, culture and basic human nature is to judge other people and situations.
And in a civilized society, a family or school, this is required to the
maintain peace, a standard, or the rule of law. We should not
attempt however to judge the heart, thoughts or intent of a person; that is left
for our own individual conscience and if you are so inclined to believe, in
God.Note: I make this comment in general, not at all associated with
those persons discussed in this article and blogs. I wish them all well.
While not LDS, I grew up in the church, and still have a great respect for the
good the church does. This story pains me seeing such animosity. We should
save this angst for our true enemies, those that would destroy this country.People are fallible, the church is made of people, the BYU leadership is
made up of people. I suspect they should be allowed to change a interest or
position without such in-founded scrutiny.I do note that the 180
people of have Blogged this story cannot be used characterize BYU fans, or those
otherwise who are not, including this humble Ute fan.Very sad
So Cougar Blue, it sounds like you are against people having a "say". Free
speech is sure irritating isn't it?
It never ceases to amaze me how many people have to have a say in something that
does not involve them. Be they BYU fans, Mormons or not Mormons. It would be
nice to have someone say..."Geez, I hope they can work this out". On this
matter, my axe doesn't need any more grinding, it is already sharp enough to fix
my world. Perhaps some more time at the grinding wheel would benefit us all.
First, the whole story is clearly not in the paper. Second, the suggestion
exists that either an ecclesiastical leader tried to make an example of someone
or, once again a "well connected athlete" got someone higher in the system to
"fix things." In either case it points to an abuse on one side or the other and
the standard of truth appears to have been violated. It is my understanding
that of a student body of 40,000, there are literally hundreds of students who
lose their endorsements each semester. Do star athletes get favored treatment?
We will probably never know the real answer here.
Truth Prevails.......Kent's back...... End of "this" story.......Roll Cougars........
Maybe this rascal will think twice the next time he sleeps in on Sunday morning.
Many posting comments here act like we don't have very much information about
Walton's case. We do - just not on the Church-owned Deseret News. The Tribune
reported the actions of the area authority, who intervened on Walton's behalf.
This does indeed indicated that the Bishop was acting outside of his authority.
Out of the hundreds of bishops at BYU, it would be naive to assume that there
aren't a few who abuse their power like this one did. Congratulations to Kent
for being vindicated.
This is a classic case of spiritual abuse. Once expert says, "Unlike physical
abuse that often results in bruised bodies, spiritual and pastoral abuse leaves
scars on the psyche and soul. It is inflicted by persons who are accorded
respect and honor in our society by virtue of their role as religious leaders
and models of spiritual authority."This is a major problem in the
LDS Church, especially for women, but as this case shows, also men.Something really needs to be done about this. Not all cases - and there are
MANY - are able to get the publicity this one got. Instead, the victims of this
abuse suffer in silence, go on medication, or in some cases, take their own
lives.Is anyone listening out there?!
To Conrad Heward,Just because somebody has the intelligence to
recognize when a Bishop and a Stake President have done something stupid does
not make that person a sinner, nor bring him under a curse.You
"stuperstition" is absurd! Try to get in touch with reality. You might find it
Good to have this lad back on the squad. Yes, now we need him to harness his
evil and use it for good! (On the diamond!) Go Coooooooooooooogs! All they way!
In a first presidency message President Kimball wrote, Every member of the
Church is given a bishop or branch president who through his very priesthood
ordination or calling is a judge in Israel (first pres msg, Liahona, March,
1983).Different from us all, the Lord has called and set apart
Bishops to be judges of those in their wards. That is their assignment from
God. Before choosing to slander one of the Lord's anointed,
remember what the scriptures say concerning it. Cursed are all
those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry
they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, but have done that which
was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them. Those who cry
transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children
of disobedience themselves. Wo unto them. (D&C
The deeds are done. The party is over. Time to go home and get busy with life.
BTW: Deseret News has published some good articles this week ... and they were
not about BYU baseball.
But of course, we all certainly still believe that Bishops are "called of God by
revelation" and that they are operating by the Spirit and using their inspired
clairvoyance as "common judges in Israel", right?!If this story
shows otherwise, then is it Stake Presidents who are immune from error in
exercising their official authority? (Oh, but there was that one Stake
President...). Or is it General Authorities? Or is it only Prophets, Seers, and
Revelators who are immune from making mistakes while acting in an official
capacity (like Church leaders lacking clairvoyance to detect Hoffman's
fraud?)???Guess we have to rethink that idea, don't we?!
In 1965 I attended BYU. Horror of horros I had a beard. This was before they
were out lawed. I had my bishop call me into his office and asked me if I was
morally clean. I told him I had not even had a date at BYU. Some times even
bishops get it wrong. Let us not judge too strong.
Great news! Best of luck this coming season.
Bishops have autonomy and the school respects that autonomy. The bishop and
stake president had reason to do what they did, but they are not immune from
having to deal with the consequences of their actions.We should be
able to relate our observations and opinions in this forum without fear of
castigation by "protectors of the faith." Quite frankly, I believe many in
positions of authority in Utah County don't realize the far-reaching
ramifications of their actions. This is not evil-speaking, but a fair
observation. I believe because of this incident, BYU will review
and change the process so embarrassing incidents like this do not make the
It's a historic fact that Brigham Young and some of his crew played baseball on
their journey to Deseret in 1847. That's beyond dispute. He always said that
when a university was named after him, baseball was to be a varsity sport. Be
glad, it has come to pass.
Below is directly from the BYU honor code website. Every item has a link with
further discussion EXECEPT...Participate regularly in church services It doesn't even say you have to go to an LDS service....As a
matter of personal commitment, students, faculty, and staff of Brigham Young
University, Brigham Young University-Hawaii, Brigham Young University-Idaho, and
LDS Business College seek to demonstrate in daily living on and off campus those
moral virtues encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and will Be honest Observe Dress and Grooming Standards Obey
the law and all campus policies Participate regularly in church services
Live a chaste and virtuous life Use clean language Respect
others Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, and
substance abuse Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the
you gotta love these sports stories...
I just want to say what a great place I think BYU is. People try to do what's
right. Sometimes it gets a little fanatical and humorous, but I think most
people mean well. I'm glad Taylor gets a second chance. It's hard to stay out
of trouble anywhere in this world. I'm an inactive disfellowshipped member
that's struggled with many things in life. I remember studying at another
university before I graduated at BYU and the difference was like day and night.
Most people at BYU try hard to be good Christians. Many other places could care
less and academics is the only higher power sought. Despite some of our
weaknesses and idiosyncrisies I'm proud to be a BYU alumni and will always love
Good for him. I've been given a few "second" chances myself.
When I was Bishop I had the same talk with every prospective Cougar. We talked
about BYU's requirements and if they couldn't commit to all of them, then there
were plenty of other outstanding schools to attend most with excellent Institute
programs. Like all private institutions the Church can run things the way it
wants. The BYU honor code, Church mission rules and temple recommend
requirements are all kept by voluntary commitment. The only person
that really knows what happened is the young man and he is smart enough not to
be talking. The Bishop and the Stake President would be breaking confidence if
they spoke, regardless of how badly they are maligned in the press. To bad
others haven't learned from all three of these men.
We don't know the details of this situation and we likely never will. Don't
criticize anyone without all the facts. I wish the young man succes.
Yes, The Atonement is still available! Thank you.
I am a parent of a former byu baseball player. No one knows more than parents
and players how difficult it is to attend church every meeting. Players play 58
games per season(none on Sunday);practice and weight lift up to 20 hours per
week; and have to keep up with school work. Because of weather, most games are
played on the road. Travel often home begins after late games on Saturday.
Often my son would not get back to Provo until anywhere from 6AM to 3PM Sunday.
Thanks to the BYU people who recognized some of this unique situation for
Baseball players. And shame on the Bishop.
Kent is a great baseball player in a good program. Coach Law is a good coach
and a good person. If you don't know what happened,quit posting stupid
judgmental thoughts! Many former players came to Walton's defense, not just his
daddy. If he had done something to break the honor code then he wouldn't have
been reinstated. I've never heard of a bishop sweeping dirt under the floor mat
for any student athlete. Kent is worthy to be there. Now that this is all behind
us, Let's Play Ball!
Of course the LDS Church backtracked on the outcome of one of its WHITE LDS
athletes. Had this player been black or hispanic or asian, or anything other
than white and LDS, then the outcome would have been final. This is why a
MORMON will NEVER be president of the United States, you get it? Mormons make
We don't know the whole story, and don't need to. Probably shouldn't have heard
any of it to begin with. But regardless, I'm glad he's back. Good luck Kent!
People keep commenting that he signed the honor code so that he could attend BYU
-- BYU's official statements states that this was not an honor code violation.
Looks folks the clues are all in the original story and today's story:1. BYU took GREAT pains to emphasize more than once that "the honor code
office is NOT involved." READ: NO violation of honor code at BYU, which
INCLUDES church attendance.2. The situation was reported as
"pitting the team and BYU AGAINST the Church on the issue." READ: BYU and the
team DISAGREED with the ecclesiastical decision by the BHP and SP and felt it
was wrong. 3. The family say (in SLTRIBUNE today) that they were
called by a church authority WHOM THEY WOULD NOT NAME. READ: an obvious HIGHER
authority corrected this foolish decision.4. If there were "another
side to the story", like some hidden sins, the guy would still be out. DUH!5. I am a BYU alumni and former BYU Bishopric member -- the local
leaders have GREAT DISCRETION AND AUTHORITY to counsel and assist students AND
to discipline and penalize them. Leadership is VERY RELUCTANT to intervene --
even when mistakes are made. Also, the SP could have been the problem here, not
the bishop.This sad situation occurs far too often to non-star
athletes having no help from publicity.
I sincerely hope most of us aren't judged as harshly as most of you seem to be
judging everyone involved in this story...especially when so little is known.
My question is why would the kid want to return to the place that turned their
back on him over a technicality? If you were unjustly fired from your job and
then asked to start again in a week would you do it? And then people defend the
action and act like its all good now? Very frightening mentality. Some people
volunteer for a lot of abuse without seeing it.
And tomorrow all of you commenting will have forgotten what this story was even
about - so much hate for something you wont' even remember. Remember that we honor and sustain our leaders - there can be no such thing as
a Rogue Bishop. Let it rest already...
A prayer: That one baseball player can stay as far away as possible from one BYU
Bishop(Admission's Office Employee)as possible.(move out of your digs young man
and land in another ward). And a prayer for one bishop, that his universe and
karma settles down and glides to a more amenable & cohesive nuanced
understanding and acceptance of dynamic, diverse and spirited young men and
women.How HIGH did the protests go? And from what pillar did the
proclamation offer that this young man was allowed back in the fold? In the
corporate world employees would have been let go; in the legal arena, damages
would have been assesed - pain and suffering - at minimum. In the BYU-LDS
universe it will remain one of those "myriad of mysteries." Regardless, is was a good call, the right call, the one that should have been
made in the first instance. Bishop, is there a laudable lesson in this for thee?
Let's hope. What a profound embarassment to the University and LDS community at
You all just prove my point. Just can't stop, can you?
It is shocking how many people are blaming the DNews for reporting this story.
Are you kidding me!? You're getting mad at a newspaper for not censoring the
news. Maybe read the Communist Manefisto next time instead of the paper.
Uh, if you're going to troll here, at least remember that Zac Collie no longer
attends BYU, and besides, it was his younger brother Austin who made the comment
that put so many people's panties in a bunch.
Sign the Honor Code and kiss your Free Agency good bye! And pay a huge amount
of $$$$$$$ to do it!
This Bishop is probably just some young punk that doesn't have enough experience
with life and hasn't learned how to deal with people in the real world. A
little too much letter of the law. I am fond of saying that the Lord calls some
people into certain church positions to gather evidence.By the way,
I checked the Honor Code and the Eccesiastical Endorsement and while it says
attentance at meetings is one of the criterion, it doesn't say attendance at ALL
meetings nor does it give a percentage of attendance you have to meet.If this Walton kid was so bad, why didn't the Bishop do his job and counsel
with him over a long period of time and work with him on his church attendance?
I'm confused. When did BYU get a baseball team?
You just did
The guy seems ok to me. For a moment there was one less baseball player in the
This article isn't worth commenting on so I'm not going to post anything.
Okay. When I was at BYU 20 years ago I went skiing one Sunday instead of going
to church. I also did everything my 20+ year old body would do to grow facial
hair on the weekends. My hair was a little long in the back for awhile, sort of
an covert attempt at a mullet (don't you dare tell my kids or my wife). Thank
goodness my Bishop never tried to yank my scholarship/enrollment status/future
earning potential/church membership because of it. I grew up in spite of myself
and have since served on a high council and in 2 Bishoprics including a spell as
Bishop. Sometimes in our overzealous attempt to safeguard the church, we throw
the baby out with the bathwater. None of us knows what this young man did, but
we do know that it wasn't so bad that the situation couldn't be remedied. I
wholeheartedly believe that the honor code is a necessary and important part of
BYU, but let's never forget that it's really about people and not some
interpretable set of situationnally elastic guidelines. It's great that someone,
somewhere did have a heart.
Um... hold on a minute. "Droves" leaving? Where in the somewhat reduced recent
growth rate of the church do you find that? Just curious. Since I
sincerely hope "active" members generally try to be *more* like Christ rather
than less, I don't see it as nearly the same thing as "fanatic." Christ
denounced fanatics, after all. But I won't deny that some Mormons *really* lose
sight of faith, hope, and charity. (I'd hope none here on this board, though
their words make me wonder.) And that IS a key step towards becoming a TRUE
fanatic.I've heard it said that there's a difference between a
Mormon and a Latter-day Saint. Think about it. I believe that's true, too. "True?", I honestly and sincerely hope you find peace one day by leaving
behind the obvious bitterness in your heart.
Regardless of the rest of the details of the situation (if there was more to it,
there would be honor code problems), it was the wrong decision to do what was
done. Heavy-handed and lacked prudence. Further, the stake president should
have overrided the decision prior to the university needing to take the matter
into its own hands. While Bishops don't get the credit they deserve, at the
same time, lets follow the spirit of the law a little more than the letter of
Congrats to whomever made this possible. It's a good decision.
Don't know anything about the specifics, but a Bishop is called to be a judge,
so "judge not" doesn't apply here.
To True?No I do not call your comment on this board true, not in the
If this kid hadn't been a baseball star no way would the university work WITH
this guy. He should have transferred.
Great rationale, "True?"!! I think we should all leave the Church whenever we
get offended! ...especially when a college baseball player gets kicked off the
team! Who's with me!?!?!
The prophet also went to BYU... and now he on the board of trustees. Follow the
Would this Bishop have done this if he wasn't a star athlete.just
McKay, Derek, AB Miller, and a few others above--wholeheartedly agreed. I have
never seen so much evidence outside the BYU/Utah grudge match... er, game...
that so many people are so bitter about so many things. The Waltons, bishop and
stake president, and BYU found a way to work it out. IT'S OVER! LET IT GO!
I'm glad this got worked out. This had me baffled. What, did this kid commit
some horrible sin? No, he just wasn't going to Church enough? Then call him in,
counsel him to do better. Are you kidding me? I don't know the whole story, so
it's hard to judge the bishop, but sounds like he was taking himself a little
too seriously.I'm in the National Guard and when I was IN THE
BISHOPRIC I only attended 70 percent of my meetings.
Go to church!!! Oh yea, transfer to a different ward too.
With hyper-judgmental bishops, and members commenting here, and everywhere else
in the Church... is it any wonder people are dropping this religion in
droves?!And then all any "active" (read "fanatic") members can do is
further condemn those who no longer want to participate with a bunch of arrogant
judgmental jerks!Watch carefully, and you will see the inactivity
rates continue to climb - like rats leaving a sinking ship!You call
BYU is a great place. I spent 20 years there as a student and faculty member and
I love it. Those who hate it just do not understand it.
would BYU take him back if he was not a star on the BB team?just
People lighten up some guy comes up with Rogue Bishop and eveyone goes nuts. I
love it, have a sense of humor.
The bishop erred. Nobody but the bishop knows why. It's not the first time, and
it won't be the last. They're fallible humans. Fortunately there's a system in
place that allows mistakes like this to be evaluated and corrected, when common
sense and logic require it. Come on. You folks who are extrapolating more than
this simple obvious fact are obsessed. Stop hating. Stop judging. Stop blaming.
The athlete seems fine. His family seems fine. Go work out your own neuroses
I am sorry this story became a discussion about bishops and church attendance -
it is only tabloid quality with extremely limited information. This should have
only been about DNews publishing the story (and using the stupid headline). For
all six of you who follow BYU baseball and even knew who this kid was please
quit trying to argue it important information and he was a public figure. NO ONE
knows any player on the baseball team! If the DNews had waited until they were
publishing a normal preseason story of the team they would have been expected to
say that Walton was no longer with the team. That would have been adequate and
served their responsibility. DNews has made some huge mistakes lately - what is
wrong with them??
I just got a CTR tattoo on my leg--that helps me to remember to Choose The Right
and not violate the Honor Code. All BYU students and LDS member should do the
I think it's ironic and entertaining that so many of these comments make blanket
judgments on all Utah County residents, all BYU students or on all Mormons by
saying that they are too judgemental. Let's face it, we all make mistakes--let's
be happy that all our mistakes aren't printed up in the local newspaper and put
online for everyone to comment on. The most ignorant statement I read came
from "Cal Mormon" when he/she stated the following: "please purge the admin team
to get rid of the 'tenured' hicks from utah co. and hire some professional admin
-- some that have actually worked in the real world!"According to Cal
Mormon all Utah Co. residents are "hicks" and apparently unproffesional and
don't know what the real world is. How many California transplants live in Utah
County? Are they become "hicks" the moment they arrive in Utah County? Are
California residents automatically wiser than Utahns simply because they live in
different state?Debating and expressing your opinions are perfectly fine,
but don't complain about others being judgemental while you make blanket
judgements on others you don't know in the same breath.
I'm just amazed at how much hate there is for the Y out there. Any little or
big thing the Y does just gets scrutinized and ridiculed. The posters above who
are saying such things as "I guarantee" or "hypocrites" or "it's because he's a
star athlete" or "BYU flipflopped" need to get a life. BYU is not a perfect
place, it is run by imperfect human beings, and this just in...... they make
mistakes and yes even sometimes they change their minds about something!!!!
That includes the administration and the students, big freaking deal... I mean
seriously, all you haters out there need to grow up, get a life, and move on if
you've been soooo offended by something the Y has done. The Y isn't perfect and
doesn't claim to be... Get over it already
Maybe this bad boy will start going to his appointed church meetings. Though
calumny may defame.
First, the source of Walton's injuries was the newspaper's coverage of this
story. This would have been a simple issue that got rectified (although a
headache for the family) if it had not been for a newspaper chosing to let the
whole state know about it. The bishop and Walton both have their roles, but so
does the DesNews. They should take responsibility for it just like everyone
else.Second, the term "rogue bishop" is an oxymoron. By the time any
bishop becomes "rogue" he will no longer be a bishop. These bishops are tasked
with ensuring the spiritual well-being of hundreds of kids, most of which are
completely removed (geographically) from their families or any other important
relationship they have. Anyone who hasn't been in that situation themselves and
judges the bishop is making a completely ignorant judgement, and anything they
say reveals more about themselves than it does about the bishop.I'm
glad the bishop stood up and did what he thought was the right thing to do, I'm
also glad that the situation got ironed out and that Walton was able to be
readmitted. I am ashamed however that the paper created such a ruckus for
RE: MeganSo what you're saying is only perfect people need attend
BYU? I attended BYU and met a lot of wonderful people. As of this date none of
us have walked on water yet. Is it possible that BYU has just a few too many
restrictions and regulations? I think it does.
I would like to point out that BYU does not and cannot "overrule" a bishop's
ecclesiastical endorsement decision. Bishops tend to be reasonable men and have
ZERO to personally gain from pulling a member's endorsement. It is not the
bishop's personal standard that determines whether someone can or should be
endorsed. Part of a continuing ecclesiastical endorsement for a member of the
church is a certification by the leader that the student has been and commits to
continue to "actively" attend his/her meetings and fulfill whatever calling or
assignment is given.The bishop is not at liberty to relax the
standard if the student refuses to obey the Code that he or she has given their
word of "honor" to obey. If the student changes attitude and is willing to fix
the problem, the bishop is then at liberty to work with them. If not, the
endorsement is pulled to follow the standard that (again) is not created by any
individual bishop.No one forces anyone to attend BYU nor to agree to
the Honor Code. There are plenty of great schools. It's the students choice
whether he will meet the Church's standard, not the bishop's.
that's what the bubble is. GO AGGIES!
As the Bishops name was not mentioned in the article I doubt he suffered as much
as this young man has. I agree with you someone needs to get a a grip on some of
these overzealous wanna be supreme court judges.
No one can say this Bishop acted improperly. No one has all the facts. Its
likely that this Bishop was simply being truthful in his endorsement statement.
He didnt have enough evidence to say the player had met this part of his
obligation and he couldnt state otherwise-he had no facts to back it up. This
event simply highlights what was a communication problem between the player and
the Bishop. There must have been no touching base with the Bishop about being
sick, visiting relatives, etc. Undoubtedly, this is what student athletes, and
other students, should do to give their Bishops the information they need to
complete the endorsement.
It is good that the rogue bishop did not ruin the reputation of what appears to
be a great kid. Not only that the university and its baseball team were
sacrificed on the altar of form over substance by a mullah bishop, apparently
rubber stamped by a like minded stake president. Thank goodness reason
Everybody has got an opinion on this subject and it's very sensitive. Everybody
thinks they know how things should be down at BYU, or how the church should be
run, or how Bishops should behave. Those lambasting the Bishop should stop.
They have no idea who this man is. They have no idea about his calling. They
have no idea about this man's dealings with this baseball player other than what
the media has reported (which is grievous, is a private matter, and should not
have even been reported, by the way). They have no idea about the mission and
aims of the LDS church or BYU. They may pull out a scripture or two and try to
make it fit, but it goes a lot deeper than that. Anyone who has been enrolled
at BYU and has taken the time to try to understand its mission would know that
this action takes place every single year. The fact that this kid is an athlete
at the school has brought it to the attention of those who otherwise wouldn't
give a flying rip-cord. Let's try to understand the whole situation before
casting stones. Otherwise, pipe down.
Hey Bcs I did the same thing and I think I saw you at our last weeks church
service!. Go Cougars!
If I was this young man, I'd tell BYU, "Thanks, but no thanks." How can you
return to this school after an ordeal such as this? BYU administrators only
caved-in because of the bad press. Play ball somewhere else!
I love it, Rogue Bishop what a great title. If anyone thinks attending church
makes you a good person go talk to Jim Baker. That bishop was probably a non
athlete that was jealous of this guys athletic ability. Glad to see more
reasonable minds prevailed. As far as you zoobies saying if you do not like BYU
go somewhere else,then stop trying to recruit these athletes. Every one of these
guys can go to allot of other schools besides BYU. After hearing about this I
hope they do.
Wow, I'm surprised that an athlete at BYU was not living right.
I know a lot of L.D.S. that followed the prophet.After a lame experience
at the u they enrolled at the Y, just like the prophet did!
The only way that this young man would be allowed to enroll is for the bishop to
reinstate by signing his ecclesiastical endorsement--he is not a rogue bishop.
The administrators certainly wouldn't override the authority of the bishop in
this case; and it's been my experience that students always receive sufficient
warning or notice if their endorsements are being revoked. Each student also
signs the endorsement in which they commit to attending all their meetings. If a
ward member isn't attending, he/she can simply let the bishop know. No one
questions the character of the young man--he simply failed to keep the
commitment he made. Apparently he has now recommitted and the bishop was
willing to give him another chance--this could have been avoided if the student
would have met with the bishop previously. I know the bishop agonized over
having to withdraw the endorsement, knowing the impact it could have on his
academic and professional career. However, the bishop knew that he needed to
honor his stewardship and role as a bishop for a BYU student ward.
This Bishop and young man have both now suffered public humiliation; however, in
the end the situation was resolved correctly. That leaves unresolved quiestions
about how many people are still out there who have suffered or continue to
suffer from the inconsistent application of church discipline. Lives can be
destroyed when the system functions improperly.
I am a Mormon and I go to church every week. I also graduated from byu and I
never missed one day of church or school! I have now checked into a mental
institute and it is really nice because we have church services!
Here come all the presumptuous speculations, from people who are supposedly not
self-righteous and don't make incorrect judgements of others. Ironic! You're
pretty much telling BYU that you know better (Your way is more righteous,
so-to-speak) and without knowing all the details you are judging BYU, a bishop
you don't even know, and a baseball player you don't know. HYPOCRITES!BYU set guidelines that if followed, can help to look after its students. The
Bishop followed those guidelines. Bishops look after members of their ward by
accounting for them. When a bishop doesn't see someone enough to account for
that person, it is out of genuine concern that the bishop accounts that fact
instead. The result: the student went through the process outlined to regain
proper status, and as noted in the article, the university showed care for its
student and helped to get the student back on track. Walton has no
problem. The Bishop has no problem. And BYU has no problem with it. Why do
you? You people don't know BYU's rules. If you did, you would see
nothing wrong with the way it looks after and helps its own to follow those
rules. Just drop it!
coming out of the woodwork!! When he was kicked out you guys were freaking out
about the stupid honor code.....now you are freaking out that they don't enforce
it!! you guys need to get a life and quit giving so much devotion to a
institution you don't like. Take control of your lives and quit whining about
It's amazing that even Mormons are attacking this Bishop and a school. It makes
me sad that LDS members do not recognize the great mission in which the school
provides. Just as an exaples during the las vegas bowl. The announcers talked
about mission work for quite a while. This is great! You don't have to root for
the teams, but you should support the school and why it is so important to the
church, the students and the education they receive. For every negative story
about BYU there is many more positive.
If the dude couldn't hit or an average student, he would be going to some JC
now. Looks real bad
As many have mentioned, we don't know what happened so we should not judge. I
agree, but just wanted to make one point. Your comment regarding his status as
an athlete giving him preferential treatment in reinstatement is a little
shortsighted. It was likely also the reason for having his endorsement
withdrawn in the first place. Many who know the leaders in this case have
commented about their dislike for athletes. Many 'everyday students' have
already commented that their own church attendance was worse than Walton's and
never had their endorsement withdrawn. We don't really know if the fact that
he's an athlete had anything to do with his expulsion or reinstatement. So,
let's not just assume either way.Glad this ordeal is over and good
luck to Walton and BYU.
Ah, I see there are still "judge the bishop," "judge Walton" comments here. All
I have to say that I haven't said before is this: I honestly hope and pray I'm
never falsely accused for a crime in Utah, put on trial, and forced to face you
people on my jury. I might as well proceed directly to my stoning -- especially
if the crime is for something *really* heinous, like wearing red to a BYU
football game.There's an interesting saying that I hear some people
in Utah have heard of: Judge not, that ye be not judged. Sound familiar to
anyone? Some people, I hear, even have the audacity to TRY stuff like that. Or
follow the example of the Man who taught such things and other weird stuff, like
charity and forgiveness. His name comes up sometimes at BYU, too, I think.
Perhaps not often enough.Do you people who continue to vent your
spite and bile on the basis of HEARSAY realize you're truly embarrassing
yourselves? Just thought you might like to know!
You truly are a weird people.
All the information we know came from the father, and it isn't a lot. Bottom
line is that we don't know what went on.I graduated from BYU, experienced
great people and some not as great. Just like any other place, What a surprise,
eh? For those of you who don't like BYU, don't go there and don't send your
kids. There is no shortage of people wanting to attend who can not. As
for close mindedness; when was the last time you talked about religion in your
biology class at the U or anywhere else? Religion and biology, chemistry,
english; I've experienced all of it at BYU, and it was a great learning
experience. It is true that the U of U and other universities have great
research programs, but I feel that there are things you can do at BYU that can
not be done anywhere else. They all have a rightful place in society.
Rogue Bishops/Stake Presidents in the church like this put a bad taste in the
mouth of non LDS people. For this same kind of event that happened to me at 18,
I left BYU, had my name removed from the records of the LDS church and attended
the U of Colorado, Boulder. It was many years later when I was married that I
came back to being LDS again. It was a total shock to my faith and belief in the
LDS church at that age. It goes to show "although the church is perfect because
it's Christ's church, many of those who serve in it are not, and need to repent
when they offend and or do wrong to others"!
Follow the Prophet: Go to the University of Utah!BYU is ridiculous. I
agree with the one who says the church is true and perfect. BYU is a mess! I
would not recommend anyone to go to BYU. What is worse is these parents
that try and force all their children to go to BYU or be a shame to the family.
That is completely contrary to the teachings of the church. These BYUians are a
disgrace to the church and I hope people understand they are separate.
I can guarantee that it wouldn't have been made such a big deal if he wasn't a
"star" athlete so once again we are staying, if you are a "star" you get away
with more than if you are a "regular" student. Sickens me......He signed
the honor code..he know what he was doing we he signed on. My advice to people
that don't want to follow the honor code.......GO FIND ANOTHER UNIVERSITY! Not
The root cause of this whole fiasco is that the newspapers sensationalized an
incident that should have been a private matter! Please don't injure people
just to sell a few more papers.
That is why I do not like BYU....FLIP FLOPPERS and to much SELF
RIGHTOEUSNESS!!!!The church is true and is perfect, but the people
in it certainly aren't. I guess that is why we have the gospel and the church to
make good men better. But sometimes it is a little much when people become
You gotta love this. Huge story on the front page when this clown gets kicked
out of school for not obeying the honor code. BYU has to show that they take
this thing seriously right? Wrong, "sweep that honor code under the rug baby, we
got our pub for enforcing it, now lets quietly let the kid play even though he
broke the MIGHTY HONOR CODE." Cougars, you are lame. I never want to hear
another brag about you beating anybody. You flat out cheat. Your athletic
department is a disgrace to the church. I think that all the coaches and AD
should be kicked out of the school rather than this kid. They are the ones doing
all the sweeping. Don't believe me, ask Mekeli Wesley! At least Tai Wesley has
I'm not LDS and am not particularly fond of the LDS religion, I like the people
fine though. Here's what an outsider sees:1. He did NOT violate the honor
code.2. The decision was reviewed prior to the player losing his
endorsement.3. The Bishop was over ruled.Here's my conclusion. If
the articles hadn't been printed I doubt this would have been over ruled since
it was reviewed prior to be implemented. The Bishop was wrong in his decision
or the entity that over ruled is wrong. I'm assuming the Bishop was wrong.
Doesn't make him evil or bad. He enforced something and it made a stink in the
papers and others decided it could be handled differently.
Its amazing to me how so many people are calling the bishop names and saying how
HE almost ruined the kid's career. The bishop was just doing his job and
following the guidelines set forth. The young man chose to go to BYU and agree
to an honor code. If he breaks it then HE is the one who has chosen to ruin his
career, NOT the bishop. In any case, we don't know what really happened. The
only reason we are speculating about the church attendance is because the father
mentioned that in the article. I hope that the young man really deserves to
continue at BYU. Had this been just your everyday student, he still would be
expelled. I hope the athlete really should be back and isn't just back because
he's an athlete.
Sorry, but this whole thing sounds to me like a bad mistake caused by an
overzealous church leader. Several have asked us not to judge. This young man
was certainly judeged. If a mistake wasn't made why was the young man let back
in school? For some of you that think church leaders don't make mistakes, guess
what? They're human.
There were two things that combined to make this the fiasco that it was. An
apparent rouge bishop who did not have or know all the facts before taking such
a severe action. And a lame university that allowed this extreme action to take
place before it apparently knew all the facts. As a Ute fan, I would love
nothing more that to have this same "process" apply to the football and
basketball team. I am sure the team would be totally depleted. But we all know
that will never happen. What was Jim McMahon's church attendance record?
were you there last week then? because i sure saw him there when i visited....
Bishops are very reluctant to pull an ecclesiastical endorsement. I have never
met or heard of a Bishop who had a desire to hurt people. If he pulled the
endorsement he probably had good reason to do so. Many students attend a
different ward from the one they lived in (girls do that to boys). Perhaps that
is what this kid was doing. The Bishop probably tried to talk with the young
man about it many times and when nothing worked, he did what he thought he had
to do. Pulling the endorsement my have been the best thing for him. It got his
attention and he may have been required to make some changes.There
are many wonderful kids who are willing to follow the rules but cannot go to BYU
because there is not room. The rule breakers are taking opportunities away from
people who want to be there and will follow the rules. Why should my tithing
money be used to pay their tuition when my child can't get in due to lack of
I went to byu, I will admit there were times when I did a lot of ward hoping in
hopes of meeting a wife. As lame as that may sound to some out there, my bishop
did not pull my endorsement. He did pull me in to try and meet me and bring in
to the fold. If the only reason the pulled his endorsement was for attendance I
question that. If he is not a rogue bishop, why did his decision
get overturned ? It obviously wasn't inline with a higher church officials view
on the matter.
baseball is a boring sport...
Is the track guy who assaulted someone with a mop back as well?
Dear Lame, your comments are exactly that. The Church should cut ties with BYU
and let it be a private institution. I have heard some ridiculous statements
over the years and this has to rank among the top. Dean of Ed. Oh,
if you only knew, you would not have made such a statement. Appropriate church leaders intervened, and corrected a mistake. Can't divulge
all I know, but Kent is not the story, what happened should be the story.
There ISN'T more to the story than we know. It was about church attendance.
The Bishop and stake President Kearl (who is a hard liner) wouldn't sign the
endorsement, the family appealed and won.BYU has athletes kicked out
all of the time and we know exactly why each and every time (see Ronney Jenkins
and Marcus Whalen).If there were more to the story (sex, drugs,
cheating, ect) we would know about it.
I'm in this guy's ward. I've never seen him before. I don't know the whole story
any more than the rest of you know it, but don't judge a man you've never met.
I think this shows that when you give the system a little time, and you have
good students with a good attitude, it all turns out just fine. I do think
someone over-reacted about his church attendance. Apparently Kent is
a really good kid with the same values we expect at BYU. Congratulations to Kent for enduring the process and being committed to the
ideals that BYU stands for!
It seems that there are a number of people who have commented on this who are
without sin themselves. Since they are throwing stones here are they not
perfect. What did the Savior say? "Let him who is without sin cast the first
I am, once again, AMAZED at the absurd chatter about the requirements to attend
BYU. If you don't like the requirements or don't agree with them then don't
attend BYU! And if you don't choose to attend BYU, then why do you care what
the requirements and expectations are?! As for BYU making it difficult to
attract top students and athletes, LDS or not (per cal mormon), what are you
talking about. The idea is that BYU is a great school, offering up a great
education and some pretty good athletics to go along with it all. For those
students and/or athletes that may have complaints, I say again, DON'T ATTEND
BYU IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE! There are plenty of students
that would like to be there and can't get in due to space available. If there
are complainers there, then let them go and make room for those that WANT to be
Now, can we suspend that bishop?A man who would ruin a kid's college
career over a few missed sacrament meetings (if that's what happened) doesn't
belong in that office.
As a U grad with 4 out of 4 kids graduating from the Y, there isn't a school
that I would rather have them go to. Too bad you don't know what you are talking
about. The church to serve ties? The church owns the school. Duh? I'm sorry your
kids weren't able to get accepted into BYU. Bitter, bitter, bitter! By the way,
each of my kids loved the experience and have gone on to graduate/law schools
elsewhere and guess what? They loved that experience too. Narrow mindedness
never was happiness.
People seem pretty quick to judge the bishop. All we know is what was said,
and not what went on behind the doors of the bishop's office. He may have been
guilty of much more than what was reported. BYU may have, once again, bailed an
athlete out, or it may have been a mistake by the bishop. Therein is the rub.
No one except the bishop, BYU, and Walton knows exactly why the bishop withheld
his ecclesiastical endorsement of Walton and I don't think we've heard all three
sides of it, similarly no one knows what Walton did, and no one knows what BYU
did or didn't do to get him reinstated. Only thing we know is that he was out
and now he was in. Whether a mistake was made before, or a mistake has been
made to reinstate him is only food for thought for idiots who think they know it
all and are want a forum for their opinion.
Hey Lame, If your kids spell like you do, they'll never get into BYU
anyway...nothing to worry about.
just let this story die. None of know what REALLY happened. Nor does it
matter. Let the kid play and hope he does well for himself.
I don't know the full story, but I am extremely pleased by the outcome...sounds
like a few people realized their mistakes and made good. Too bad this kid was
pulled throught the mud in the process, but at the end of the day it all worked
out. Perfect example of a just society!
I'm sure that both sides have learned (hopefully!) some valuable lessons. I
know this Bishop (no -I am not a member of this ward), and I know enough to know
that you (cks1450) don't know what you are talking about. This whole story
reflects more upon all of us who are so quick to judge the situation, without
access to most of the facts of this case. I have great respect for the many
Bishops on campus who spend hundreds of hours of their own time to help young
people at an important time in their lives. It is, I am sure, a thankless job
-at times. We should, charitably, withhold judgment and give the benefit of the
doubt. I am happy to see the student returning to school -I truly am happy. I
also think we should not vilify this Bishop, or any Bishop, who makes a best
effort to serve in this capacity.
Just as I don't know the specifics of what got the endorsement removed and Kent
Walton's elligibility revoked, I don't know the specifics of the Bisho's
decision or even the action actually taken by him which resulted in this issue.
I wonder how outraged those would be who have slammed this Bishop without
information, if they were branded as he has been by them. It amazes me at how
opinionated people here have been without evidence and information, and most of
them from an institution of higher learning which supposedly values cognitive
I go to church every week because I individually feel it is right for myself,
and for my family. I know many who go just to please someone else. (aka some
byu students that sign the honor code). So please don't give me that "oh I
signed the honor code so I go every sunday". By saying that you are telling me
that you as an individual dont want to be there.
i attended church exactly 2x as a freshman at BYU. 100% church attendance is
not a requirement for acceptance or continued enrollment at BYU. and if a
non-member does not attend church 100%??the honor code is just that -- not a
covenant to attend church every sunday. the more BYU does this kind of stuff,
the more difficult they make it for themselves to attract top LDS students and
LDS student-athletes -- let alone good kids who are not LDS! i hope BYU
remembers that there is a very large alumni network which doesn't appreciate
this kind of publicity! BYU Admin -- you can control negative press by not
making stupid decisions that are picked by the media and drag all of us down.
please purge the admin team to get rid of the "tenured" hicks from utah co. and
hire some professional admin -- some that have actually worked in the real
This is wonderful news. I'm sure this entire ordeal would have been better
handled privately and had the same outcome. The Tribune and DNews should been
more responsible in selecting a story to print. Some things are better off left
private. There are many situations that occur like this at BYU. But this only
made the papers because he was a celebrity student. In any case, I'm happy for
this young man.
Happy to have Kent back in school! What ever happened is behind us now, and
Kent can get on with his education and baseball playing again! Coach Law is an
outstanding coach, and is a great example for his players.CAC
Good for Mr. Walton. I wish him well and hope those who mishandled the situation
learned from just how ridiculous they appeared in jeopardizing this young man's
I don't hink you have to go to church EVERY SUNDAY to be eligible for BYU. There
are legitimate reasons to not go to church. If your wife has a baby on a Sunday
are you going to say "sorry honey, I need to leave and hear about how to be a
better home teacher". Yeah right.
Few people will appreciate me saying this, but oh, well. The level of
mean-spiritedness in the discussion of the initial story was very disturbing.
(I'm also "Telegraph" there.) People ignored the fact they were hearing the
bishop's and stake president's words FOURTH-HAND and fired away vicious
diatribes against those eccelesiastical leaders, men they've never met and
wouldn't know from Adam. Other people questioned this young man's character
without knowing him, either. Sad.I'm glad in this case that the
leaders apparently did see reason and withdrew their hasty judgment. Hey, it
happens. Church leaders, baseball players and their families, and BYU personnel
are human beings. Human beings sometimes/often make mistakes. *Decent* human
beings eventually recognize that fact and work out their problems like adults
WITHOUT trying to assassinate each others' character. Other people ... um, well,
let's just say they give "Rise and Shout!" a whole new meaning.Walton's "natural" choice: Transfer to Oregon State, Arizona State, or another
high-profile, top-flight baseball school. Instead, he worked it out.
Congratulations to him and the others. Maybe all those snipers on the previous
forum and their sympathizers can put aside their spite and bitterness and do the
I think eventually we'll find that the problem isn't with the bishop, but with
Walton. Looks like his daddy saved him this time--next time it won't be so
"It's a pretty thin pancake that doesn't have two sides." We will never know
the Bishop's side of the story as it is not a matter of public record and should
never come out in the media.The "Rogue Bishop" comment shows
incredible immaturity, or blatent disregard for the religion and the fact that
it is a religious institution.LDS students go to BYU at a discounted
tuition compared to non LDS Students. If they violate the honor code they are in
danger of losing that privilege to attend.I am glad it is the Savior
that ultimately judges us, and not "mere humans."
How ridiculous. Thank God this young man got fair treatment. LDS bishop should
be ashamed of himself.
Another reason BYU is the lamest school in the Nation. It is the only school i
wouldn't pay for my kids to attend, even though I am LDS. Why does a bishop need
to determine if you are 'worthy' to attend biology, economics, etc. makes no
sense. I'm sure plenty of kids do 'unworthy' things and still go every sunday,
so why should someone be 'expelled' for not going or going to another ward with
friends/family? I wish the chuch would severe direct ties with BYU
and let it be a private school not run by the quorumn of 70.
The D-News already put out this story for everyone to see. It was a tabloid
If a bishop wants respect, he must earn it.No, we don't know all the
details.But what we do know does not look good for this bishop.Fanatic members are prone to assume that, because he was "called of God"
to be bishop, therefore, he must be infallible. And therefore, there must be
something going on with Walton - he must have really been doing something
bad...Your superstitious beliefs lead you to erroneously give the
bishop the benefit of the doubt rather than Walton. THAT is religious prejudice,
and THAT is what caused this problem in the first place.How many
times do we have to be told: WAKE UP SAINTS! Get your heads out of the hymnals
long enought to look around and see what reality is like!
I was open and hoping for more info in this story which should never have been
written, especially with the disgusting tag line. There had to be something we
don't know about the player or the bishop is an egomaniacally demon. Well, the
player is back without restriction or probation, but the
bishop....................I'm very happy I have never met him. He may owe
a lot of folks apologies, most of which, the young man who had his good name
trashed on the front pages of both SLC daily newspapers.
Glad to see even BYU's pencil has an eraser!
It's nice you can judge the actions of a bishop without knowing anything, other
than what was in the newspaper. Calling someone a "rogue bishop" is not only
ridiculously harsh, but extremely disrespectful.
justice is served
I'm sure theres more to the story that we don't know, and I'm glad, thats the
way it should be. But some bishops need to realize that if kids are making
mistakes getting them to transfer to another school may not fix the problem. In
fact it would probably make it worse and the person bitter towards the church.
BYU is not for perfect people, just like the church is not for perfect people.
Lets allow room for repentance. I've known people that will just lie to get
their endorsement because they think their small problems will get them kicked
out of school. Is that what we want?
You have no idea what happened, just like none of us really knew what happened
to Walton in the first place. Who are you to judge this bishop? I signed the
honor code I by doing so committed to obeying all of the requirements such as
attending church EVERY Sunday.
This made me sick, I am glad to hear that the rogue Bishop was reeled in.
Distubring that it got this far really. If I am walton, first thing I do at the
end of the semester is find a new ward.