Comments about ‘Home school debate reignited’

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Published: Wednesday, Feb. 6 2008 12:32 a.m. MST

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Manny

Mr. Mero you DO want your cake and eat it too. You don't want the public school instruction, but you do want to take part in extracurricular activities provided by that school. Like it or not, extra curricular activities are for those kids that ATTEND that school. Life is about making choices, and if you make that choice that you don't want your kid in public school please recognize that you do give up that privilege of participating in extra curricular activities provided by that public school.

Paul Mero

Dear Manny, that is about the most narrow-minded comment I think I have ever heard...and I am sure you are not really that sort of person. Think about what you are saying.

BTW, current state law, current State Board of Education rules, and even curent UHSAA by-laws are all on our side. Meaning...the prejudice you express (but I am sure you don't really believe) is a retort to an argument settled by our Legislature nearly 15 years ago.

So, "like it or not, extracurricular activities are for [ALL] kids...." Period.

Thanks Paul.....

For showing us that you are already participating and that 15 years ago the leg mad it possible.

SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM???

Quit wasting more tax dollars and time passing something that obviously is happening already!!!

RE: Paul Mero

If extracurricular is for all kids then why is it being debated by the UHSAA...

"It simply gives an advantage to one group of students that we don't give to other students," said Van Wagoner. "Every other student has their school work evaluated by a third party ... It's hard to persuade these people that parents won't be objective."

I am sure you are a rare parent who takes accountability of your kids, and thank you Jordan coach for giving his mark of approval, but again your missing the point.

Public school kids are being punished because you are taking your kids out and bringing them back to bump someone vested in the public school athletics. This isn't the stock exchange, you can't just trade and sell your kids to schools when you feel needed and get compensation over another student who is vested in the school. I agree with RE: Sara..
I support your sacrifice....but make it a sacrifice of the PUBLIC SCHOOL system if that is your desire. Don't pick and choose what you can and cannot provide.

Jenks

Mr. Mero, the concern that I have is the validity of declaring a home school kid eligible if they aren't held to the same standard as a kid in public school. What if a kid is declared ineligible by the public school, and his place is taken by the home schooled child declared eligible by a different standard? Now whether the home school child was held to a higher standard or lower standard, how would we know? Do you realize some of the problems that may arise from this? In a prior post you say that there have been cheaters in public school, likewise there will be cheaters in home school. I just think there needs to be a way to hold the home schooled kids to the same standard as the public school kid in determining eligibility. I just don't feel that it's verifiable that if a parent or whoever is doing the home schooling can just say "yes, they are eligible." Again, I'm NOT saying the home school education is inferior to public school.

Paul Mero

Dear Jenks, current state law about home schooling establishes a trust in parents to do so. The check that is in place is a signed affidavit, with the threat of jail for perjury, if the family is not living up to the law.

SB 37 follows current law and places this same trust in parents.

The main point of contention is trust in parents and respect for parental rights. For our student athletes we do submit grades based on subject matter according to law.

The UHSAA alternative is to require third party verification for home school academic work. This represents the opposite of current law and promotes a culture of distrust. For instance, our family does not question public school officials who determine eligibility for public school teammates of our boys...even though we know people are human. We prefer to live within a culture of trust. The UHSAA hates that concept and in fact makes its money (as a private organization) based on a culture of distrust.

One solution we have floated is to include ALL student athletes in third-party verification procedures and not just home school students...again, if everyone is dishonest then why not include everyone?

Paul Mero

To the comment board monitor:

I posted an earlier response to two of the previous comments earlier (i.e. "Thanks Paul" and "Re: Paul Mero") and I still do not see it posted. Is there a problem?

PTM

Jenks

Mr. Mero, Thank you for the response, however I still feel the same way. The public schools have administrators over those teachers to make sure they are not dishonest. Do you really think that they wouldn't suffer any repercussions? They would suffer severe consequences for being dishonest. Of course people of human, but that's why there are people over the teachers to closely monitor that. You say it creates a culture of distrust, but Mr. Mero if you are being truly honest, then what's to fear if a third party verifies that a child is eligible? Finally, let's be honest Mr. Mero, you don't think that if a child is being home schooled by their parent and they don't have to verify eligibility by another party, they wouldn't EVER stretch the truth of their own child's eligibility?

Paul Mero

Dear Jenks, those administrators over teachers don't seem to make too much of a difference when cheating is the objective. And, no, they don't suffer personal repercussions, especially not like we would (i.e. jail for perjury).

I don't "fear" anything in this regard. Fear isn't an issue. Trust, respect, equity...those are the issues. As I mentioned, while I still think it would promote a culture of distrust, why not apply third-party verification to ALL student athletes? If everyone is innocent...right?

I know human nature and how we view our own children but there is a difference between patience with a real live human being (student) and living within a culture of distrust that presumes guilt instead of innocence. In fact, as I mentioned, the whole working premise of UHSAA is guilty until proven innocent. They incessantly remind me..."you're so naive" about how people are cheaters.

What kind of community do you want to live in? Try putting yourself in the shoes of home school parents and then maybe you can begin to understand how all of this distrust (and presumption of guilt and attitude of second-class citizen) would make you feel.

Jenks

Now there Mr. Mero is where you are dead wrong. How do you define personal repercussions? I have personally been involved in the public schools for many years and have seen fines, suspensions and even the loss of one's job, not to mention public humiliation because it is publicized in the papers courtesy of the UHSAA. I consider those personal repercussions.

Interesting you bring up a culture of distrust. Why aren't your kids in public schools? Seems as if you are the one creating the culture of distrust regarding the public schools.

Paul Mero

Dear Jenks, with all due respect (seriously), I am not sure I owe you (a stranger) any explanation as to why we have home schooled for 20 years.

On your first point, I do not doubt that some public school folks get in trouble when they mess up and it becomes public. But I can guarantee that NO ONE in the public school system will go to jail for failing to educate a child "successfully" (i.e. up to some arbitrary standard). But we home schoolers certainly would. What don't you understand about the reality that we actually are required to sign an affidavit that we are doing such and such to educate our children in the "approved" manner? Does ANY public school official have to do anything like that or face any penalty like that? No.

If you don't want us home school folks involved in your public (community?) schools, then the least you could do is to be courteous enough to give us our thousands of dollars back that we willingly give to you folks each year to subsidize the education of your kids.

Otherwise, why not relax, be inclusive, and learn to live in peace with educational freedom?

Jenks

Ok Mr. Mero, do you really believe with our overcroweded prisons, that a judge would send you to jail instead of maybe a fine or probation? I don't think so...
Also you pay taxes, yeah, so does everyone else. Not all of that goes to education you know. And I would gladly give you your money back if I could. You are in such a minority, it wouldn't effect us much if any.

Paul Mero

Dear Jenks, I am telling you what the law is...and it is not the same for public school teachers and administrators who "fail" to educate their students.

BTW, all state income taxes in Utah go to education...as do most of my property taxes. I am not asking for them back, only making a stern point that it's not me and mine who are trying to have things "both ways."

Perhaps one day we can test your theory about the public school establishment not caring if home school families didn't pay state income taxes to support public education. My hunch is that you are dead wrong. They would pitch a fit.

Alas, because I do not suffer from low self-esteem, being a minority is no burden and I (we) welcome our modest relationship with you oh-so-numerous and self-assured neighbors. You all make us better people for knowing you!

EVERYONE

Is just mad that the mero talent didn't go to their school and it went to Ours!!!!!!! Go Jordan, beet brighton...... Paul is the man too!!!!

Sara

"You HAVE A CHOICE and I support that. Then "WHY" don't you support opur choice. We send our kids to the public school for intergration skills into society. That is one reason we do it. The oppurtunity to participate in EXTRAcurricular PUBLIC SCHOOL activities is a PERK for being in the PUBLIC SCHOOL."

Why don't you Public School people stop lying to yourself. You could homeschool if you wanted to, but you don't want to take care of your kids so you get someone else to do it for you. I pay taxes to the school system too and I should be able to allow my children to participate in the fun stuff since they work so hard.

I wish I could keep my kids from the PS system, but my money is worth something. Maybe I should stop paying taxes to keep the schools up and then they can get run down, but then all the Public school parents will complain that us Homeschool parents are cheating the system. Who wants to have SOCIETY teach their kids anyway? Is that a GOOD thing? Hardly!


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