Deseret News | Legislators shouldn't punish immigrant children

Reader comments
John Florez: Legislators shouldn't punish immigrant children

Arnold | 5:17 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

If the Catholic and LDS Church are so concerned about the poor illegals, let these two tax exempt businesses support them. Human family, or not the issue is that the ones the laws will impact have broken the immigration laws in the first place. Since when can we pick and choose what laws we can break? Children of illegal immigrants cost the taxpayers of Utah about $174,000,000 to educate, annually. This includes, "Anchor Babies", & illegals. More than 5% of students, in Utah, are children of illegal aliens. Utah ranks 24th in the number of Illegal's children in schools. This is from June, 2005 statistics, the latest I could find. One solution, ammend the constitution & eliminate anchor babies. I'm sure that the parents of Mr Florez were legal immigrants & not the ones the big argument is about. I hope the Utah Legislature isn't swayed by emotions & will pass laws against those Illegal Aliens.

Govenor, Please Veto | 6:33 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

I agree, hopefully the govenor will veto this. Afterall I'd hate to see us not celebrate the 24th or 4th of July anymore, both of the reasons we celebrate those two holidays were based upon illegal actions. Why the sudden caring so much about a law that isn't even a felony?

24th of July, the Mormon pioneers came into this valley which was then Mexico without permission. And yes Mexico did have a permission requirement. The Texans had to agree to obey Mexican law, before they were allowed in.

4th of July of course, our founders broke British law at the time when they rebelled. This rebellion was a felony at the time.

michaelh | 6:47 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

We are NOT punishing illegal immigrants children, their parents are. When they choose a life of crime they choose the natural consequences of that crime for their children. It is child abuse BY THE PARENT, NOT US. If Mr. Flores wants us to protect the illegal children, I agree. We should immediately create a child protection ICE and TAKE ALL THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CHILDREN INTO PROTECTIVE CUSTODY!!!

Comments continue below

platitudes | 6:52 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Always platitudes from John Florez- if these immigrant children are like Flores then we're in big trouble - unless you love big government socialism. I agree arnold- we need to change the constitution - it's crazy to give citizenship to someone simply because they were born on American soil - it doesn't work in 2008.
When I got out of the army in Germany I relocated to a different state from where I entered the service and I got to pay out of state tuition for a year. But a child of a foreign national gets in-state? That's fair!

Bob | 6:58 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

It's like a parent throws his child into the street and then blames the driver who runs over the child.

I feel sorry for the poor people who come here to get a better life but I also feel sorry for the people here who are losing the good life that they have had.

It is somewhat like being in a lifeboat where more and more people climb into the boat causing the boat to sink.

America is being destroyed by cheap unregulated labor and the unscrupulous employers who seek it.

Bonnie | 8:02 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Creating, endorsing, or sustaining incentives for any person not legitimately residing in the U.S. is wrong....Period!

Compassion is wonderful, but it is not compassionate to encourage actions which provide false hopes for illegal residents and end up harming legal residents. Such actions only encourage more desire to create and accept additional illegal activities which bypass the laws and principles that most ethical people support.

Instead - what is needed is a realistic reform to provide immigrants with worker-permits in a timely manner and in limited numbers as deemed necessary for the benefit of the United States.

Tuition ? | 8:16 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

why not just give them a book voucher too as they enter the United States Illegally while the rest of the legal children have to sit around , wait because no child left behind gets underfunded. What kind of intelligence is that. I'm for diversity but only the Legal kind!

Concerned | 8:44 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

When our government spends money on illegal immigrants and their children, that money is being taken away from tax payers. So my children should be ignored at the expense of children here illegally?

Yep | 8:42 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Don't punish them, sure...but don't reward them either.

willie | 9:07 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

the illegal aliens know how to play the "pity" game. They know they are here illegally. They know their children are here illegally. They try to create "anchor children" to help prevent deportation.

A lot of citizens fall for this "pity play."

Since they put themselves and their families at risk, they are the ones that should be punished for doing so, not citizens paying for their illegal actions. Deport them and fine the people that hire them. Make them pay for the air fare to get them back to their country of origin.

Finally, why is it that most people with Hispanic surnames want to allow illegal aliens into the U.S. by the millions? I would really like to know why.
We already have 20% of the population of Mexico here illegally. How many are enough?

don't punish the innocent | 9:21 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Blame the failure on the U.S. failed border protection and Mexico's neglect of their poor. The legislators who support HB 241 are supporting an impotent piece of legislation. What has Rep. Donnelson done to make a statement to both governments? It's apparently easier for him and the conservatives to harass children.

Maybe they are simply protecting their business buddies' source of cheap labor by keeping that labor uneducated.

We must find more fear | 10:08 a.m. Feb. 4, 2008

We can no longer rely solely on our enemies to menace the populaceï¿½we must find that horror within ourselves. Though we have made great strides in frightening ourselves about illegal immigrants, bird-flu pandemics, and random psychotic school shootings, it is not enough. What happened to that country I used to know and love, where a Korean grocer could be killed out of irrational xenophobia merely because someone thought he was an Arab? Such an act is, I am disappointed to say, almost unthinkable in today's increasingly less-than-utterly-petrified climate.

tenx | 12:04 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Its not surprising that Florez, La Raza, Projecto Mexicano, etc., support in-state tuition for Illegals. Now all Tax Paying American Citizens PLEASE CALL YOUR LEGISLATOR AND SUPPORT LAWS THAT RESTRICT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

YouGoFirst | 12:03 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

While I feel sorry for the people that are leaving corrupt and/or impoverished nations to come here for a better life, I do feel that we need to obey laws. If the laws that are on books already were followed, then there wouldn't be any problem. The next problem with educating an illegal immigrant is that they won't be able to get a job. We may educate them, but unless they do what they need to to become legal workers in the US, it doesn't matter. If they go back to their country of origin and use their education to improve their lives there that would be great, but many if not all are looking to stay here.

They are lucky that they only have to pay out of state tuition, they should have to apply for a student visa so that they are following the same rules as any other foreign student at any university.

war-mongering mentality | 12:53 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Those who rabidly want to rid the world of illegal immigrants based upon the law of the land are the same who support the war-mongering that has gotten us into deep, deep trouble today.
Thank God for the Catholic and LDS Church leaders who know what the right thing to do is.

Guardian | 1:07 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

I don't believe the intent of the law is to punish children. It is indeed very sad that innocent young people are caught in the middle of this, but we must get control of out-of-control illegal immigration and this is one way to create a less welcoming environment. We've got to roll up the welcome mat!

What we really need to do is adopt a strong employer sanctions law - not just public employers but ALL employers.

bad karma awaits | 2:15 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

re: Guardian and other anti-illegal posters -
Those who refuse to examine alternate points of view other than the hard line approach to this problem are going to be in for a hugh karmic surprise. If not this lifetime, then probably the next.
The way the universal law of karma works is that these types will surely find themselves in a totally powerless and compassionless situation for their misdeeds in this lifetime.

Hateful People | 2:31 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

It's really sad to see how many people on these post are so incredibly cruel. I don't think it is okay for illegals to come over here the way they do but WOW, i had no idea so many people could be so cold. You too quickly forget that you were all lucky as crap to have been born here. And to make it worse it's usually those same people who constantly complain about the government. Well i have news for you. If you had kids, and they were subject to what some of the kids in S. America are subject to, you would cross any boarder, or break any law to get them to a better place. If not you aren't fit to be their parent. You just have never had to deal with anything hard like that so you don't understand. I PITY ALL WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT IMMIGRATION! I really do.

To bad karma awaits | 4:21 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

It seems as though ï¿½bad karmaï¿½ does not see the hypocrisy in his/her own statement. ï¿½Bad karmaï¿½ knows nothing at all about those of us against illegal immigration other than that we are against it. ï¿½Bad karmaï¿½ is hurling insults or threats of karmic justice against many of us who have very charitable hearts and have given our time, efforts and hard-earned money to help people in need at home and all over the world.

My objection to illegal immigration is that I am against all things illegal because I believe in the rule of law as the sustaining force of civilization for the greater welfare and security of all. Thus, preserving the rule of law is the ultimate compassionate act benefitting all good citizens of our nation. I will fight greed and corruption on every level and actually believe that is a good and honorable thing to do.

Perhaps ï¿½bad karmaï¿½ should be concerned about his/her own future karma for judging others so harshly just because we law-abiding citizens donï¿½t agree with him/her. Since when is respect for the rule of law defined as lacking compassion?

how karma works | 4:32 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

"To bad karma awaits 4:21 -
I think this person better take some time and learn now the universal law of karma works (Call it God's blessing or curse, if you'd like).
There is a monumental difference between embracing and rejecting. Especially when it comes to one's fellow man. Be very careful what you even think about (ie. removing hard-working, starving people from your midst) what one thinks about expands and in a very real sense can spell one's doom.

To Hateful People | 4:59 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Yes, we are all ï¿½lucky as crapï¿½ to be born here. I will absolutely agree with you on that. However, that fact does not excuse illegal immigration, the employers who hire illegal aliens, or the government which has been derelict for so long in performing their sworn duty to uphold our laws. And who are you to tell anyone theyï¿½re not fit to be parents if they donï¿½t cross any border or break any law to get to a better place? Some of us would rather teach our children to be honest and honorable and how to stand up and effect change in their own countries when things are not fair. I would find a better way!

By the way, we all have had, have and will have really, really difficult things to deal with. Life is not fair; at least I have never found it to be so. That does not give me carte blanche to do anything illegal or encroach upon the rights of others.

You might want to come down off your moral high horse and examine your own ï¿½hatefulï¿½ feelings before you hatefully decry them in others. Pure hypocrisy!

Believe what you want of yoursel | 5:03 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

To "To bad Karma awaits," "'Bad Karma' is hurling insults or threats of karmic justice against many of us who have very charitable hearts and have given our time, efforts and hard-earned money to help people in need at home and all over the world."

You should stop pretending since it's obvious that you only help those that you want to help. This is true even of those who donate tithes and offerings but who won't help a homeless person. They will take part in Ward service activities but not serve outside individuals or families in need because it is about glory.

"My objection to illegal immigration is that I am against all things illegal...I believe in the rule of law as the sustaining force of civilization for the greater welfare and security of all." This may be true but the law is wrong so your argument is a fallacy. I also believe in the rule of law but that didn't make segregation, slavery, etc good things I would sustain.

To be continued...

Passing evil laws isn't rule of | 5:12 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

To "To Bad Karma awaits," "Thus, preserving the rule of law is the ultimate compassionate act benefitting all good citizens of our nation."

Which laws? Only those you agree with? Because I support good laws and oppose bad ones. It wasn't compassionate for the supporters of slavery, segregation, child labor, etc to say that it was the "rule of law" and condemn those trying to repeal them.

You write, "I will fight greed and corruption on every level and actually believe that is a good and honorable thing to do." Good for you but I will fight greed and corruption as manifested by you and those whom you vote for because I believe it is the right thing to do.

You then write, "Perhaps ï¿½bad karmaï¿½ should be concerned about his/her own future karma for judging others so harshly just because we law-abiding citizens donï¿½t agree with him/her. Since when is respect for the rule of law defined as lacking compassion?"

Maybe you should stop using the rule of law as an excuse to maintain bad laws that you support. Slavery was the rule of the law too but good people opposed it. I support the rule of law too.

Donate offerings but don't serve | 5:18 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

War-mongering mentality, "Those who rabidly want to rid the world of illegal immigrants based upon the law of the land are the same who support the war-mongering that has gotten us into deep, deep trouble today. Thank God for the Catholic and LDS Church leaders who know what the right thing to do is."

I agree with you whole heartedly. These people can pretend to be good people and some of them are probably Catholic and LDS but they don't represent the gospel of Jesus Christ but only use it.

I have seen this kind of person in my Ward. They will get up and bear testimony about how "very charitable" they are for donating tithes and offerings, and attending Ward service activities but I never see them at the local soup kitchen or in the many other places I serve. They will go down to help Katrina survivors as a Ward activity but they aren't at the local Red Cross office volunteering for the many other disasters that happen all the time. Why? They are fakes and are in it for the glory. I too am glad that good Catholics and Mormons are willing to speak out.

Anonymous | 5:27 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Isn't it interesting to see how our War on Illegals people talk themselves into believing they can do no wrong (to Hateful People 4:59)?
Little do they know (I really don't think they realize how full of hatred they are).
It's all done with mirrors. And they are beginning to sound like something you might hear on The Rush Limbaugh Show.
Sad, pathetic, angry, lost people they are.

Watch what you think about | 5:30 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Be very, very careful what you think about. If you notice a feeling of anger welling up inside of you and it won't go away - you are thinking the wrong thoughts. These negative thoughts will grow and grow until they immobilize you. Be careful.

vanishing breed | 5:31 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Thanks Donate offerings 5:18 -
Nice to know compassion still exists.
If people could only recognize what they are doing to themselves with this 3rd Reich-sounding philosophy. Thank God these types are a vanishing breed. It's an evolutionary thing on the Neanderthal side. They are surely on their way out.

anarchy | 6:47 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Supposedly we are a nation of laws- that the illegal types choose to disregard. Unchecked immigration doesn't work in a welfare state. End Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and Public Education and our friends from South of the Border can come here to work all they want- I thank God we have illegals of the Christian persuasion and not the type the Europeans are dealing with

Legally Here | 8:30 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

If people are so concerned about getting the children of illegals educated and cared for, wouldn't it be much more efficient to take care of them in Mexico? It has to be much cheaper to do that there, especially since there isn't any language barrier.

Send them back one by one | 11:37 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

The bleeding hearts who are condemning those of us who simply want the laws of our beloved nation obeyed remind me of the young man who murdered his parents and then begged for mercy from the court because he was an orphan.

Walker | 9:02 p.m. Feb. 7, 2008

Every child deserves hope...
Hope involves education, compassion, and doing the right thing for the children-Regardless of how their parents came, the children SHOULD NOT suffer for the "sins" of their parents, and the only "sin" is coming to a country where they hoped for a better future. Without education, these children can't progress, and if we deny education, we contribute to social problems. WE are all children of immigrants. The children they would deny education to are children of the first Americans. Do some research people-We stole the land from indigenous people, we abused them, and it looks like the children of the conquistadors and early settlers have learned well from their fathers. You would think that educated, Christian people would act and think in Christlike ways. But I guess you still want your working class to stay in their place. We would all do well to remember President Hinckley's 6 B's, and also to show compassion in making laws. How about considering allowing these kids an education and better life as reparation for abuses of our own fathers?If abusive comments are to be removed, why is so much prejudice posted?

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