Reader comments
Panelists at U. ponder ways to battle warming
25 comments | Read story
Dave | 7:39 a.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Talk about your fear mongers.
GlobalWarmingIsAHoax | 8:42 a.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Their is no evidence that mankind's activities are creating global warming.
There is concrete evidence, however, that the earth has experience temperature
fluxuations periodically--even when man wasn't an industrialized influence.
For example: In the 1300s the earth was warm enough that Greenland was quite
green and Scotland enjoyed a long growing season. How do explain that
historically documented rise in temperature when mankind wasn't even
industrialized at the time?
Remember in the 1970s the media and politicians were warning us of an impending new Ice Age?
The Truth: the current global warming movement is merely an effort by those in government to sieze more control
Remember in the 1970s the media and politicians were warning us of an impending new Ice Age?
The Truth: the current global warming movement is merely an effort by those in government to sieze more control
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 9:04 a.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Hmm, that's weird. Only the most liberal mayors in Utah were on the panel.
Do you see a correlation? The only surprise is that the Park City mayor
wasn't on there, or Mapleton. Where were the mayors of Sandy, Provo, Orem,
Vernal, Cedar City, Logan, Monticello???
Here's a good place to start | 9:37 a.m. Feb. 1, 2008
If our Wise and Virtuous Mayors are powerful enough to stop anthropogenic Global
Warming, then perhaps they are powerful enough to restart the sunspot cycle.
Because if Russian scientists are correct, we will be in another mini ice age by 2050, due to decreased solar radiation caused by lack of sunspots.
Because if Russian scientists are correct, we will be in another mini ice age by 2050, due to decreased solar radiation caused by lack of sunspots.
Roscoe | 9:55 a.m. Feb. 1, 2008
To GlobalWarmingisaHoax -
Yea, it's a vast left-wing conspiracy! The commies are trying to take over! Environmentalism is their religion! You don't have a clue what "the truth" is.
Yea, it's a vast left-wing conspiracy! The commies are trying to take over! Environmentalism is their religion! You don't have a clue what "the truth" is.
botchedexperiment | 10:09 a.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Man-caused climate change is probably happening.
Yes, the earth has experienced fluctuations, but at a significantly slower RATE than what we are now experiencing.
Not believing current science because of past scientific blunders is not a wise strategy. Additionally, there was very little data to support global cooling, but there is quite a bit of data to support the idea that humans are changing the temperature of the earth and weather patterns.
Is that really so hard to believe? You can go nearly anywhere on earth and see evidence of humans. Collectively, we have the power to completely change our local environment (deserts to cities, valleys to lakes, forests to farmland).
If enough local environments were changed, why couldn't that add up to a global change?
For example, everyone knows that cities are hotter than a surrounding suburban area, which is hotter than a nearby rural area; the bigger the city, the larger the variation between the city and the nearby rural area. If, in the future, there were enough cities, then one could expect a net temperature increase.
Yes, the earth has experienced fluctuations, but at a significantly slower RATE than what we are now experiencing.
Not believing current science because of past scientific blunders is not a wise strategy. Additionally, there was very little data to support global cooling, but there is quite a bit of data to support the idea that humans are changing the temperature of the earth and weather patterns.
Is that really so hard to believe? You can go nearly anywhere on earth and see evidence of humans. Collectively, we have the power to completely change our local environment (deserts to cities, valleys to lakes, forests to farmland).
If enough local environments were changed, why couldn't that add up to a global change?
For example, everyone knows that cities are hotter than a surrounding suburban area, which is hotter than a nearby rural area; the bigger the city, the larger the variation between the city and the nearby rural area. If, in the future, there were enough cities, then one could expect a net temperature increase.
BotchedExperiment | 10:17 a.m. Feb. 1, 2008
In the past, there have been many examples of human activities causing
surprising and unexpected changes (good and bad): chlorofluorocarbons and the
ozone layer; mechanized agriculture and the dustbowls of the 30's; the
Korean DMZ becoming a huge nature and wild life preserve; cities and industrial
areas causing poor air quality.
Finally, I�d just like to point out that the earth is essentially a closed system, at least when it comes to most human activities. We have the power to convert oil to gasoline to CO2 (and other compounds) but all that �new� CO2 has to go somewhere.
Maybe it really isn�t a problem now, but what in 100 or 200 years? I think any reasonable person can realize that at some point we�re going to have to move on from the 20,000 year old technology of burning stuff for energy. Why not start trying to do that now?
Finally, I�d just like to point out that the earth is essentially a closed system, at least when it comes to most human activities. We have the power to convert oil to gasoline to CO2 (and other compounds) but all that �new� CO2 has to go somewhere.
Maybe it really isn�t a problem now, but what in 100 or 200 years? I think any reasonable person can realize that at some point we�re going to have to move on from the 20,000 year old technology of burning stuff for energy. Why not start trying to do that now?
Worried | 11:46 a.m. Feb. 1, 2008
It really scares me to see comments like the ones here. Climate change is a
fact; there is no longer any doubt that it is happening, and our use of fossil
fuels is causing it. The biggest danger is people who won't take the time
to become educated and understand this. Climate change has nothing to do with
daily weather fluctuations; it is the entire earth's climate as a whole.
The CO2 emissions are causing an overall increase in temperature, and this is
causing disruptions in the climate. It is also hurting ecosystems, entering the
oceans and making it more acidic. We may lose many species there, and reduce the
amount of oxygen that ocean life provides to us. Please, don't hide you
head in the sand and call this a hoax... it is real, it will affect us and our
children. Take the time to learn about it - and do what you can personally to
reduce your emissions in the process.
DW | 1:05 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Worried,
Temperatures have not risen in the last decade. Recorded temp. increases from 1980 to 1999 were based on readings from stations all over the world except the ones that were shut down with the demise of the old Soviet Union, you know.... where Siberia is. You are being hoodwinked by a large group of people who want to shut down economic and industrial progress in the world because they believe in their hearts that it is bad. There are numerous valid refutations of made made global warming available. Do yourself a favor, read a few. Start with "Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1500 Years" by Avery and Singer. Do it and you won't worry so much.
Temperatures have not risen in the last decade. Recorded temp. increases from 1980 to 1999 were based on readings from stations all over the world except the ones that were shut down with the demise of the old Soviet Union, you know.... where Siberia is. You are being hoodwinked by a large group of people who want to shut down economic and industrial progress in the world because they believe in their hearts that it is bad. There are numerous valid refutations of made made global warming available. Do yourself a favor, read a few. Start with "Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1500 Years" by Avery and Singer. Do it and you won't worry so much.
really worried | 1:06 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
I shouldn't read the comments section after articles any more. I get
depressed reading how stupid so many utahns appear to be. It makes me sad to
realize so many people are dragging their feet to the idea of living a life
where we conserve energy, have adequate water for our needs, and live without
problems like asthma. Am I the only one sick of our air quality when it
doens't rain or snow??? I love it here. I dont understand why wanting to
act to save what we have and make it a better place is so bad? Whats wrong with
wanting to be a good steward of the land?
Sensible Scientist Again | 1:05 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Sorry that you're Worried. Perhaps you could do a little homework, become
informed, and stop believing the rhetoric that "there is no longer any
doubt" that mankind is causing temperatures to change. That's just
fearmongering that certain folks use to gain money and power. There IS
significant doubt. In fact, the entire basis of the global warming scare--that
CO2 levels are the primary cause of temperature changes--is unproven. There is
also significant doubt about temperatures themselves, with increasing evidence
that land use changes and urban heat islands bias the dataset. NASA just
published a report in December that the Arctic warming of recent decades was
caused by a shift in Arctic Ocean circulation patterns, not by global
temperatures (they made that point explicitly).
Besides, the "warming" of the past century is only 0.7 C, and half that occurred before 1940. It's barely detectable, and now we know the big component of it in the Arctic has nothing to do with atmospheric composition.
Natural rates of temperature and atmospheric gas changes in the past HAVE indeed been faster and larger than today--just not in the relatively small 2000-year window some choose to examine. That's too short to show natural trends.
Besides, the "warming" of the past century is only 0.7 C, and half that occurred before 1940. It's barely detectable, and now we know the big component of it in the Arctic has nothing to do with atmospheric composition.
Natural rates of temperature and atmospheric gas changes in the past HAVE indeed been faster and larger than today--just not in the relatively small 2000-year window some choose to examine. That's too short to show natural trends.
samhill | 1:10 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
To "worried":
You tell us, "Climate change is a fact; there is **no longer any doubt** that it is happening, and our use of fossil fuels is causing it."
Actually, as is graphically proved on this very forum, there is considerable doubt about it.
You continue with, “The biggest danger is people who won't take the time to become educated and understand this.”
Considerable time and education has produced people with diametrically opposed opinions on the subject. Like most unprovable hypotheses, the “indubitable” one that you are worried about is far from conclusive, no matter how many people line up on the side of the advocates.
Like the 2006 and 2007 forecasts of numerous and deadly hurricanes that seemed assured following the devastating 2005 season, the best models and predictions are very often worthless! Not too surprising really. The simple, truly indisputable fact is that the future is and always will be UNPREDICTABLE!!
So, my recommendation to you is to do what you can to lead a simple, energy efficient life and take it all a bit more calmly. Odds are very good that all the predictions of global climatic calamity are, in fact, just so much hot air.
You tell us, "Climate change is a fact; there is **no longer any doubt** that it is happening, and our use of fossil fuels is causing it."
Actually, as is graphically proved on this very forum, there is considerable doubt about it.
You continue with, “The biggest danger is people who won't take the time to become educated and understand this.”
Considerable time and education has produced people with diametrically opposed opinions on the subject. Like most unprovable hypotheses, the “indubitable” one that you are worried about is far from conclusive, no matter how many people line up on the side of the advocates.
Like the 2006 and 2007 forecasts of numerous and deadly hurricanes that seemed assured following the devastating 2005 season, the best models and predictions are very often worthless! Not too surprising really. The simple, truly indisputable fact is that the future is and always will be UNPREDICTABLE!!
So, my recommendation to you is to do what you can to lead a simple, energy efficient life and take it all a bit more calmly. Odds are very good that all the predictions of global climatic calamity are, in fact, just so much hot air.
Tim | 1:38 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Worried,
I get depressed that so many people are stupid enough to swallow the whole man made global warming theory without questioning it. Any time a politician tells me his opinion is fact and not debatable sends up a red flag. I think it is great Utahns are thinking for themselves and not blindly following the global warming rhetoric.
I don't use as much energy as most americans and I buy wind power for my home because I believe energy conservation is a good thing but I don't do it because of global warming. My main motivation is to become independent of wacked out countries that profit from fossil fuels. And I enjoy living in a clean environment.
I get depressed that so many people are stupid enough to swallow the whole man made global warming theory without questioning it. Any time a politician tells me his opinion is fact and not debatable sends up a red flag. I think it is great Utahns are thinking for themselves and not blindly following the global warming rhetoric.
I don't use as much energy as most americans and I buy wind power for my home because I believe energy conservation is a good thing but I don't do it because of global warming. My main motivation is to become independent of wacked out countries that profit from fossil fuels. And I enjoy living in a clean environment.
botchedexperiment | 2:15 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Sensible Scientist: What often gets lost in the climate change debate (and
whether it's worth potentially hurting the world's economy to curb
potential causes of climage chage) is the fact that it's not the only
reason to stop using fossile fuels.
Every gallon of gas a person buys is indirectly funding terrorism. OPEC is not or friend.
Oil is a finite resource. It will eventually run out, no matter whether we start using oil shale deposits or not.
Automobile use is responsible for the majority of air pollution in American cities. Poor air quality causes asthma attacks and cancer.
50% of CO2 emissions in the US comes from burning coal to produce electricity. That's 4,000 year old technology; seems like we should be able to do better than that.
Every gallon of gas a person buys is indirectly funding terrorism. OPEC is not or friend.
Oil is a finite resource. It will eventually run out, no matter whether we start using oil shale deposits or not.
Automobile use is responsible for the majority of air pollution in American cities. Poor air quality causes asthma attacks and cancer.
50% of CO2 emissions in the US comes from burning coal to produce electricity. That's 4,000 year old technology; seems like we should be able to do better than that.
botchedexperiment | 2:15 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
As for 0.7C/100 years being insignificant, I'd like to see a credentialed
person make that statment. My understanding is that is a dramatic increase.
An additional complication lies in the fact that particulate matter in the atmosphere (almost all of it human-cuased) is apparently relfecting sunlight. The areas that have been tested have been shown to have a reduced amount of sunlight hitting the earth.
Thus, paradoxically, it is possible that particulate pollution has been protecting us from more dramatic climate change.
An additional complication lies in the fact that particulate matter in the atmosphere (almost all of it human-cuased) is apparently relfecting sunlight. The areas that have been tested have been shown to have a reduced amount of sunlight hitting the earth.
Thus, paradoxically, it is possible that particulate pollution has been protecting us from more dramatic climate change.
Worried | 2:46 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Looking at the comments here, of people who are obviously not scientists, I am
really, really worried. Sorry, I don't want to get anyone upset; but your
comments show you don't understand the science. Short term weather patterns
won't show this; long-term climate science does. It's not the
government trying to control your lives, or people trying to scare you.
It's just the truth... most people are starting to understand it. There
are, unfortunately, still many that try to hide from it.
The temp has been declining | 3:04 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Botchedexperiment: The increase since the beginning of the industrial era
isn't that unprecedented, nor is it unusual.
But even if the particulate concentrations in the atmosphere have been declining, that doesn't explain why global mean temperatures have been declining since the 1998 peak.
In fact, this winter is on track to be the coldest in the Northern Hemisphere since the 1970's, and last winter was the coldest in the Southern hemisphere since the 1960's.
Unless the Northern Hemisphere has a scorching summer, 2008 will be the coolest year globally in 25 years.
But even if the particulate concentrations in the atmosphere have been declining, that doesn't explain why global mean temperatures have been declining since the 1998 peak.
In fact, this winter is on track to be the coldest in the Northern Hemisphere since the 1970's, and last winter was the coldest in the Southern hemisphere since the 1960's.
Unless the Northern Hemisphere has a scorching summer, 2008 will be the coolest year globally in 25 years.
Sensible Scientist Yet Again | 3:42 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Just want to make a salient point: I personally take serious measures to
conserve electricity and fuel. I drive very fuel efficient cars--in fact, I had
a 1985 Chevrolet Sprint that got 55 MPG for the 213,000 miles I drove it, and it
always passed the most stringent pollution checks. How many global warming
alarmists used as little fuel as I did for those 10 years? I use low-wattage
light bulbs and keep lights off when not needed. I conserve water. I recycle
and try to minimize waste.
Why? Not because I'm scared of CO2, and not because it is politically trendy, and not because some pundit or politician says I should, but just because of personal, gut-level beliefs. I think efficiency is a good thing. You don't have to think we're killing the planet to believe that.
Why? Not because I'm scared of CO2, and not because it is politically trendy, and not because some pundit or politician says I should, but just because of personal, gut-level beliefs. I think efficiency is a good thing. You don't have to think we're killing the planet to believe that.
Tim | 3:41 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Worried,
Lets pretend you are right and global warming is an absolute truth. Even then there are other truths that people hide from that are more of a concern than global warming.
Lets pretend you are right and global warming is an absolute truth. Even then there are other truths that people hide from that are more of a concern than global warming.
Anonymous | 4:09 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
It IS possible that all the �global
warming� is a natural occurrence. We just
don�t have enough data to prove one way or the other.
Global warming is a theory, not a fact.
It is wise to create a better environment by conserving fossil fuels. We have enough data (facts) to prove dinosaurs no longer roam the earth.
It is wise to create a better environment by conserving fossil fuels. We have enough data (facts) to prove dinosaurs no longer roam the earth.
Truthmonger | 5:45 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Battling global warming is the same as battling the rotation of the earth.
People want us to spend trillion of dollars in taxes on something that in hundred years will have only the smallest negligble effect.
Its a wasted effort and the time and money can be better spent on things that can make a difference like building nuclear reactors which is the cleanest and most practical source of energy.
Honestly does using our food for energy really make sense?
We've only been using fossil fuels for about a hundred years longer if you count coal, and we've had higher co2 levels and more global warming in the past, the far past.
Using your brains and common sense tells you it's 99.9% natural. And anything we do is insignificant.
All that being said we are still the stewards of the earth, and must take care is best that can, but only in ways that make realistic and practical sense and economical sense.
People want us to spend trillion of dollars in taxes on something that in hundred years will have only the smallest negligble effect.
Its a wasted effort and the time and money can be better spent on things that can make a difference like building nuclear reactors which is the cleanest and most practical source of energy.
Honestly does using our food for energy really make sense?
We've only been using fossil fuels for about a hundred years longer if you count coal, and we've had higher co2 levels and more global warming in the past, the far past.
Using your brains and common sense tells you it's 99.9% natural. And anything we do is insignificant.
All that being said we are still the stewards of the earth, and must take care is best that can, but only in ways that make realistic and practical sense and economical sense.
Timj | 9:30 p.m. Feb. 2, 2008
Deseret News commenters really need some basic science knowledge. Do any of you
know the difference between 'theory' and 'fact'?
'Global' and 'local'? BYU, one of the most conservative
universities out there, offers some great science classes. Even if the U of U
scares you off, I highly recommend you guys get a basic science education, and
there are plenty of great safe conservative places to get that.
Until then, your ignorance is showing.
Until then, your ignorance is showing.
al gore is a polluter | 1:28 p.m. Feb. 3, 2008
That guy spews more "gases" into the atmosphere in one day, then my
whole family does in one year. And he wants me to walk to work in the snow,
while he travels in his private jet, all in the name of saving the earth.
theory vs fact | 3:57 p.m. Feb. 3, 2008
To: Timj | 9:30 p.m. Feb. 2, 2008
There was a time when everyone "knew" the world was flat. It was not a theory but a fact. Just because some of the scientists agree does not make it a fact.
They are working with incomplete information and general assumptions just like when the earth was flat.
We do need to take better care of our stewardship of this earth. We just don't have the power to change the tides or adjust the climate.
Didn't Al Gore also invent the internet... lol
There was a time when everyone "knew" the world was flat. It was not a theory but a fact. Just because some of the scientists agree does not make it a fact.
They are working with incomplete information and general assumptions just like when the earth was flat.
We do need to take better care of our stewardship of this earth. We just don't have the power to change the tides or adjust the climate.
Didn't Al Gore also invent the internet... lol
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Salt Lake City Mayor Ralph Becker, left, Salt Lake County Mayor Peter Corroon, state energy adviser Dianne Nielson, Moab Mayor Dave Sakrison and Midvale Mayor Joann Seghini take part in the panel discussion at the Utah Museum of Fine Arts on Thursday.
Related content
- Salahis bounced $24K check 4:41 p.m.
- Players like concussion rules 4:40 p.m.
- Obama's stylish aide under scrutiny 4:37 p.m.
- GOP national convention in SLC? 4:36 p.m.
- Ruling appealed in teen beating case 4:27 p.m.
- Highland may pay for burned home 4:18 p.m.
- Baby born on SLC bound flight 4:00 p.m.
- Russian nightclub blast kills 76 3:45 p.m.
- Lampropoulos drops out of race 3:39 p.m.
- Colombian Mormon denied asylum 3:36 p.m.
- Mr. Football 2009: Tuni Kanuch
- 5A high school football All-State
- Expert paid $500K for Mitchell report
- Miller predicted Tiger's rough road
- Harpring's NBA career is over
- Utah Jazz going green with unis
- 4A high school football: All-State
- Nutty Putty Cave to be sealed today
- MVPs wrap up stellar prep careers
- Jazz: Miles, Kirilenko to play Friday
- Hall reprimanded by MWC
408 - Max Hall issues apology393
- Hall's pain reflects self-betrayal362
- Why is Y. ignoring spew of hatred?292
- Utes won't respond to Hall278
- BYU says Hall incident resolved247
- Letters: Liberal because LDS229
- 2 citations issued at Y.-U. game188
- Hate not limited to 1 in-state rivalry181
- Aggies shoot past Cougars179
That does it — I'm having an affair! Thanks to Tiger Woods, David...
First, a big thank you to all who posted questions here for me to ask...
Zions Bank has a free online holiday gift planner that's creating some...
Latest comments
Yeah, even Wal-Mart has a greeter. I'm NO fan of the clueless,...
Methinks there are too many Scrooges rating this movie. We loved it!
Ah yes, little brother syndrome exists at USU as well. They live to hate BYU...
I was illegal nearly the entire time I was in Spain on a mission doing God's...
Oh the tangled web you weave, when you practice to deceive.
Apparently your country might have learned this or that but YOU DID NOT!...
I like the trailers, too, but you're right about them revealing too much....
All this bill does is make healthcare "affordable" to some by taxing...
A friend moving to VA and pregnant was told by the airline that she couldn't...
This is good for max. Personally, though the TCU QB is no doubt a great...
Advertisements
Although that woman with her hand over her mouth may need to have a few more sips of the global warming Kool-Aid.