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Input sought on education
21 comments | Read story
Tab L. Uno, LCSW | 12:42 a.m. Jan. 31, 2008
The teachers' unions will not like this one, but like Universities, hire
instructors from the private sector, have corporations loan trainers out. There
are alot of great experienced real world practitioners in various fields of
academics, math, writers, computers, actors, artist in the real world.
Sally | 2:23 a.m. Jan. 31, 2008
I am a teacher, and I think the year-round schedule proposal sounds great! I
would jump at the chance to make 40% more!
Anonymous | 6:33 a.m. Jan. 31, 2008
Special schools for the behaviorally challenged so we can teach with fewer
interruptions.
Comments continue below
D. Goff | 7:16 a.m. Jan. 31, 2008
I disagree with Sally.
I have lived in Orem during their year round programs. They were a lousy idea for educational and family reasons.
In Orem, the teachers stayed and the students rotated into class and out all year. They were constantly bringing the incoming students up to speed, which slowed everyone down. We arrived here and the schools were a year behind Loveland, Colorado (a small town) where we just moved from.
Children naturally want and need to be out of doors when the weather is hot. Studies show that the body has natural rhythms. Forcing small children to sit still for hours when they should be getting out of doors is counter productive.
The on again off again nature was also very disruptive to family life and family rhythms, which in turn can greatly dampen academic performance.
After 6 months in the year round system in Alpine School district my then 11 year old daughter requested to be home educated. Her younger siblings have followed in her footsteps.
I have lived in Orem during their year round programs. They were a lousy idea for educational and family reasons.
In Orem, the teachers stayed and the students rotated into class and out all year. They were constantly bringing the incoming students up to speed, which slowed everyone down. We arrived here and the schools were a year behind Loveland, Colorado (a small town) where we just moved from.
Children naturally want and need to be out of doors when the weather is hot. Studies show that the body has natural rhythms. Forcing small children to sit still for hours when they should be getting out of doors is counter productive.
The on again off again nature was also very disruptive to family life and family rhythms, which in turn can greatly dampen academic performance.
After 6 months in the year round system in Alpine School district my then 11 year old daughter requested to be home educated. Her younger siblings have followed in her footsteps.
Former Educator | 9:05 a.m. Jan. 31, 2008
I returned to college in 2001 (at 32 years old)as an education major. One of my
goals was to make myself irresitable to my future employers. To accomplish my
goal I started working as a paraeducator to gain experience. I happen to have
ESL training as well, needless to say, I've never had difficulty finding a
job. Much to my dismay, I found our public schools to be horrible places to
work. Last year my ESL students were denied computer access even though part of
their curriculum was computer-based, in favor of white classes. I did not have
texts until late Jan. and was chastized for creating my own lessons. Huh? No
computer access, no books equals me being paid to babysit. This year when I was
moved out of the closet that served as my classroom, I witnessed teachers
standing in the hall talking about sports when they should be teaching and
interrupting my class on a regular basis to use the telephone so they
wouldn't get caught in the lounge during classtime. I changed my major and
quit my job. Teach in Utah, no way! I make $2.50/hour more in the private
sector with no experience.
Anonymous | 9:24 a.m. Jan. 31, 2008
Give us more money.
Seriously, that is all that is needed to attract more teachers. We have the money. Just look at the $30,000,000 that they are offering to go year round. Where is that money coming from? You mean we do have the money, the legislature just doesn't want to give it where it is needed.
Simple solution to a simple problem. When you can't get employees, you have to raise your offer.
Seriously, that is all that is needed to attract more teachers. We have the money. Just look at the $30,000,000 that they are offering to go year round. Where is that money coming from? You mean we do have the money, the legislature just doesn't want to give it where it is needed.
Simple solution to a simple problem. When you can't get employees, you have to raise your offer.
Funding | 2:40 p.m. Jan. 31, 2008
"Sen. Carlene Walker, R-Cottonwood Heights, says she's looking for
suggestions, particularly from teachers and school leaders 'other than give
us more money.'"
Why isn't asking for more funding an option, Sen. Walker? Seems to me a severe lack of funds is the root of Utah's educational problems? Look at how much we are able to do with so little. We have some of the highest graduation rates and test scores in the nation while barely scraping by.
Look at what more money could buy you: smaller class sizes, competitive teacher salaries, much-needed infrastructure for growing districts, additional programs and curriculum, early-childhood development instruction -- not to mention reassurance from the state Legislature that it really is willing to put its money where its mouth is, that education really is important to this state.
Why completely rule out what could be a real solution? Or maybe legislators really don't want to fix "the problem" but only appear to be doing so --or maybe the real objective is to make things even worse.
Why isn't asking for more funding an option, Sen. Walker? Seems to me a severe lack of funds is the root of Utah's educational problems? Look at how much we are able to do with so little. We have some of the highest graduation rates and test scores in the nation while barely scraping by.
Look at what more money could buy you: smaller class sizes, competitive teacher salaries, much-needed infrastructure for growing districts, additional programs and curriculum, early-childhood development instruction -- not to mention reassurance from the state Legislature that it really is willing to put its money where its mouth is, that education really is important to this state.
Why completely rule out what could be a real solution? Or maybe legislators really don't want to fix "the problem" but only appear to be doing so --or maybe the real objective is to make things even worse.
grumpu | 5:34 p.m. Jan. 31, 2008
The Governor said in the State of the State that there is too much testing. The
problem is that the testing is not taken serious. The Federal Government has
passed the high school graduation exam and if you pass, you get a diploma. The
Federal Government now wants to put money (which they don't have) into high
schools to help them pass. The problem starts in early elementary school.
It is time that the State set up testing starting with grades 1-3, first in the year round elementary schools. Standards would be for pass, contingency pass or repeat the grade or part of the grade.
The Legislature needs to look at the present pass/fail where the control is up to the parent. It has even been said, let the middle school take care of that problem. Combine this with a State wide teachers scale.
The Sate should also assist districts that don't have the money to support the pension plan.
( I am not in the education field, I am a retired widower with NOT relatives in this State.)
1/31/2008 5:29 PM
It is time that the State set up testing starting with grades 1-3, first in the year round elementary schools. Standards would be for pass, contingency pass or repeat the grade or part of the grade.
The Legislature needs to look at the present pass/fail where the control is up to the parent. It has even been said, let the middle school take care of that problem. Combine this with a State wide teachers scale.
The Sate should also assist districts that don't have the money to support the pension plan.
( I am not in the education field, I am a retired widower with NOT relatives in this State.)
1/31/2008 5:29 PM
Orem Parent | 8:33 p.m. Jan. 31, 2008
Yeah, where is that $32,000,000 for year round school coming from?
If they have it for their pet project, why can't they spend it on real teachers right now?
If they have it for their pet project, why can't they spend it on real teachers right now?
anon | 9:07 p.m. Jan. 31, 2008
... or real solutions. Year-round school is hardly a fix, and I would wager it
will likely create many more problems that Sen. Stephenson and his legislative
colleagues never even dreamed of. I don't see many districts jumping on
that bandwagon.
Parentof 4 | 1:15 a.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Maybe it is time to start asking parents to support their own children.
It's OK with me if parents want 12 children, if they pay their way, but
parents want it both ways. They want a gazillion kids, but, don't want to
pay for them. They it's pretty juvenile thinking. There are way too many
"freebies" in our society now and it's time to expect people to
take responsibility for themselves and their families. We need to truly promote
self-reliance, just as the church does. We are the laughing stock of the nation
because we have so many kids and we can't educate them. Come on folks, lets
step up to the plate, this doesn't seem like a big decision to make. And,
it would make us a more responsible society. Also, we could look at the
thousands of illegals that are receiving their education absolutely free.
Let's make everyone have some accountability. It can be done, it just
takes people in leadership to make the right decisions.
Scott | 9:31 a.m. Feb. 1, 2008
To Funding:
If you read carefully, Sen. Walker said why she wanted ideas other then "give us more money". She said they already know that. I'm not sure she was discounting that solution, but wanted other ones. It is too easy to say give more money. Additional solutions are needed as well.
If you read carefully, Sen. Walker said why she wanted ideas other then "give us more money". She said they already know that. I'm not sure she was discounting that solution, but wanted other ones. It is too easy to say give more money. Additional solutions are needed as well.
Jo | 12:57 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Some people have suggested that teachers get paid according to how well their
students do. There are schools that have a lot of money and support at home and
schools that have very little. There is no fair way to see how well a teacher
does in the classroom. The schools on the west side of Salt Lake have children
that speak very little English so the teachers have to spend time teaching them.
If teachers got paid more they would be willing to stay in the classroom rather than leaving for more lucrative positions. Teachers don't just graduate from college and start teaching, they have to continue to take workshops and classes.
If teachers got paid more they would be willing to stay in the classroom rather than leaving for more lucrative positions. Teachers don't just graduate from college and start teaching, they have to continue to take workshops and classes.
Not More Money??? | 1:50 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
That is a great way to attract teachers.
Ask them to do more for less!!!
(Why would someone want to leave a warmer climate to come here and work more hours for less pay? The Legislature has no interest in improving Education other than vouchers and will set every program up for failure to prove their point.)
Go Utah Legislature. It is evident we need wholesale change come election time.
(BTW, how is that $500 per diem working out for you legislators this year? Are your rooms comfy and the Restaurant food to your liking??? I'm concerned about your comfort.)
Respectfully:
A voting citizen with children
Ask them to do more for less!!!
(Why would someone want to leave a warmer climate to come here and work more hours for less pay? The Legislature has no interest in improving Education other than vouchers and will set every program up for failure to prove their point.)
Go Utah Legislature. It is evident we need wholesale change come election time.
(BTW, how is that $500 per diem working out for you legislators this year? Are your rooms comfy and the Restaurant food to your liking??? I'm concerned about your comfort.)
Respectfully:
A voting citizen with children
Edward | 2:16 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Illegals DO pay taxes! Where do you think the rent money comes from? It pays
the rentor who pays the taxes! Where do you think the grocery money comes from?
It pays for the grocer who, in turn, pays the taxes! Where do you think the
new shoes, socks & clothes come from? How about the tax gasoline, the tax
on furniture, the tax on other goods & services, etc. come from? ILLEGALS
DO PAY TAXES!! THEY GET NOTHING FREE!!
Teacher | 2:59 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
So, when illegals steal my SS number, are they going to pay my income taxes too?
russ | 8:27 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Over time the scores for Utah K-12 students continue to be above the national
average. There are a lot reasons for that. The list is long.
The question is the future. Senator Walker is asking the right question. Of course, I am presuming she is ready to pay teachers a professional salary for working with our future!
So how do you keep Utah at the top (if the scores really reflect that premise)? In my state we are so far behind Utah in so many things that we look to what you are doing. Yup, sad but true.
So please do this: Pay a professional wage, Let the educators run the system, Honor the education profession all the time, Celebrate all children making achievements, and Be stern but fair. Do not lower standards, do not bring in part time people from industry, do not reward mediocrity, and quit moaning when the schools need something.
Think like a Lakota: when they do something and they ask how this is going to impact the 7th generation. Then they plan and support -- and go to bed knowing that they have held up their end of continuing the civilization. 7 generations...
The question is the future. Senator Walker is asking the right question. Of course, I am presuming she is ready to pay teachers a professional salary for working with our future!
So how do you keep Utah at the top (if the scores really reflect that premise)? In my state we are so far behind Utah in so many things that we look to what you are doing. Yup, sad but true.
So please do this: Pay a professional wage, Let the educators run the system, Honor the education profession all the time, Celebrate all children making achievements, and Be stern but fair. Do not lower standards, do not bring in part time people from industry, do not reward mediocrity, and quit moaning when the schools need something.
Think like a Lakota: when they do something and they ask how this is going to impact the 7th generation. Then they plan and support -- and go to bed knowing that they have held up their end of continuing the civilization. 7 generations...
Tooele Teacher | 9:23 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
I do not believe that the year-round school idea is a good one, no matter how it
is implemented.
When I started teaching, I taught at a year-round school in the Los Angeles Unified School District. We had longer hours than normal to accomodate being there fewer days. School started July 1st, and my track went for 4 months straight, getting out just before Halloween. We were "off-track" until January 2nd, and then had four months straight again. As a teacher, I could stay home during the breaks, but instead, I chose to substitute. Sometimes, I would do day-to-day substituting; other times, I would ask to substitute long-term in a class that didn't have a teacher at all.
As a job, it was great -- I earned nearly $50,000 per year just starting out. But for the kids, it was awful!!! They had a hard time coping with the long days and forgot a lot during their breaks.
I like the idea of offering open-enrollment Summer School for both remediation and for students who want to accelerate their education. That way teachers and students who need the break (Some REALLY NEED it!) can take a break.
When I started teaching, I taught at a year-round school in the Los Angeles Unified School District. We had longer hours than normal to accomodate being there fewer days. School started July 1st, and my track went for 4 months straight, getting out just before Halloween. We were "off-track" until January 2nd, and then had four months straight again. As a teacher, I could stay home during the breaks, but instead, I chose to substitute. Sometimes, I would do day-to-day substituting; other times, I would ask to substitute long-term in a class that didn't have a teacher at all.
As a job, it was great -- I earned nearly $50,000 per year just starting out. But for the kids, it was awful!!! They had a hard time coping with the long days and forgot a lot during their breaks.
I like the idea of offering open-enrollment Summer School for both remediation and for students who want to accelerate their education. That way teachers and students who need the break (Some REALLY NEED it!) can take a break.
Tooele Teacher | 9:43 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
One more comment: Schools need to be closed periodically.
First, this allows the maintainance crews to do deep cleaning and to make significant repairs. Otherwise, there will either be major disruptions to the classes or dilapidated buildings.
Second, closing the schools between school years allows planning time. Counselors can check on students' final grades before advancing them to classes for which they are not prepared. Principals can reflect on how the school-year went and plan for the next. Teachers can wrap up one year before jumping into the next, especially if their teaching assignment is changing. (They might be changing to a different grade level or teaching a new course the following year.)
First, this allows the maintainance crews to do deep cleaning and to make significant repairs. Otherwise, there will either be major disruptions to the classes or dilapidated buildings.
Second, closing the schools between school years allows planning time. Counselors can check on students' final grades before advancing them to classes for which they are not prepared. Principals can reflect on how the school-year went and plan for the next. Teachers can wrap up one year before jumping into the next, especially if their teaching assignment is changing. (They might be changing to a different grade level or teaching a new course the following year.)
Charter leader | 10:57 p.m. Feb. 1, 2008
Our charter school receives the same or a tiny bit less funding per pupil than
traditional public schools, yet we are able to teach our students in reasonably
small classes (24-28); last year we had a 98% parental satisfaction rate; our
kids outscored the district on the national tests (sometimes by as much as 20
percentile points); AND we pay our teachers an aggressive wage (which we are
committed to increasing yearly) and provide a positive, enthusiastic, fun place
to work with students who really know how to learn.
We have over 2,000 students on our wait list. How do we do this? I'm not exactly sure all the differences, but I do know we bought salvaged furniture from schools that were going to throw it away, and saved a lot of money that way. Also, our building is not "school grade" but is beautiful and we love it! There should be no caps on charter school numbers. With the growth in student population we are experiencing in Utah, charters should be allowed to proliferate.
We have over 2,000 students on our wait list. How do we do this? I'm not exactly sure all the differences, but I do know we bought salvaged furniture from schools that were going to throw it away, and saved a lot of money that way. Also, our building is not "school grade" but is beautiful and we love it! There should be no caps on charter school numbers. With the growth in student population we are experiencing in Utah, charters should be allowed to proliferate.
Rural Administrator | 12:24 p.m. Feb. 2, 2008
I believe that to improve education in Utah and improve the working environment
for teachers and the learning environment for students it will require us to
determine where the "buck stops" in regard to decision making for
educational issues.
In a state where local control seems to be valued -- there is a great need to decide if the legislature, the State Board, USOE or local district should set the bar and determine funding.
If the legislature really wants to control the program, they should take over the majority of decisions regarding education -- such as state wide teacher salaries, determining benefits for those working in the educational field, setting curriculum, calendars and graduation expectations.
If not, then the legislature should do their very best to fund educaiton without any strings -- because the answer is often different in the districts/schools and charter schools of the state. Pilot programs, line items and meeting the individual needs of individual legislatures is "pork barreling" and a waste of money.
Please don't waste your time telling us how to do the job, but trust that we will do our very best if given the funds to do so. That is respect and needed.
In a state where local control seems to be valued -- there is a great need to decide if the legislature, the State Board, USOE or local district should set the bar and determine funding.
If the legislature really wants to control the program, they should take over the majority of decisions regarding education -- such as state wide teacher salaries, determining benefits for those working in the educational field, setting curriculum, calendars and graduation expectations.
If not, then the legislature should do their very best to fund educaiton without any strings -- because the answer is often different in the districts/schools and charter schools of the state. Pilot programs, line items and meeting the individual needs of individual legislatures is "pork barreling" and a waste of money.
Please don't waste your time telling us how to do the job, but trust that we will do our very best if given the funds to do so. That is respect and needed.
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