Deseret News | Reader comments: Poisoning in Utah intensifies efforts for a national ban

Reader comments
Poisoning in Utah intensifies efforts for a national ban

Dale | 5:25 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

For years I had been warned not to touch those devices, but I never knew what they looked like. During a hike in the middle of no where, I came across a small pipe in the ground. I picked it up and examined it before I realized what it was. It could have been me, but it had already discharged. I'm no environmentalist nor coyote lover, but we need to get rid of those things! It can easily be you!

Janice L. Peters | 6:40 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

How about a "universal symbol" for "do not touch" printed all over this device? Maybe a hand in the circle with a slash through it? Like traffic symbols?

SMH | 7:30 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

Mr. Slaugh's incident happened 5 years ago, and "He has difficulty breathing, vomits almost daily" still !!!
This poor man!
They have got to get rid of these things.

Comments continue below

Other methods | 7:51 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

I would support the removal of these types of devices based upon the risk to humans and domestic animals alone, however it shouldn't be done in the name of reducing predatory control efforts. The one environmental group cited in the story has a goal of protecting coyotes and other predators. If the govt. bans these devices, they had better pave the way for other forms of predator control such as hunting from planes.

dick castillo | 7:54 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

I find it interesting that a poison so lethal with no know cure is out in our wilderness areas in the first place. If the sheep and cattle farmers have so many issues with predators then perhaps the goverment could use it's "immense" resources to find another humane way to solve the problem without endangering the public. To the comment of placing warning signs on the device or even signage in the area, when was the last time you were with a child who has not yet learned to read? I guarantee the first incident when one of these devices harms or kills a child the whole nation will be aware of this ridiculous practice. I really feel awful for the man who had one of these devices explode on him.

Park City Resident | 8:15 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

These devices are simply unacceptable on public lands!

zwod | 8:32 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

These devices are deadly. I`ve seen steel traps, snares and poison on public property for years.If I come onto a trap or snare, I take them home, smash them with a hammer and throw them in the trash. The use of these devises are dangerous and barbaric. I`ve lost a couple of dogs to this stuff. Many times these contraptions of death are used illegally. Contact your representitive and demand these deadly materials be removed from public property.

Margins | 8:47 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

I don't have a problem with cattle grazing on public lands. In fact I think it preserves a vital part of our history, but maybe it is time to rethink grazing on public lands if rancher's margins are so razor thin that things like this have to be used.

As for "hunting" from planes, that didn't go over so well in the uninhabited wilds of Alaska. I don't know why anyone would think that it would fly in the much more populated Western states.

Z. Larsen | 9:02 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

No labeling?! It doesn't appear to even display a poison symbol or wording such as, "CYANIDE, EXPLOSIVE, DON'T TOUCH". Sheer idiocy.

Tumbleweed Tom | 9:04 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

How come government officials are not putting together a sportsman's coalition to deal with the predator problem rather than injecting potentially harmful poisons into the environment? Any of you varmint hunters ever gotten a call from one of Uncle Sam's agents saying "Hey, Joe, give us a hand here?"

lpack | 9:08 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

People need only to read the warnings posted on the land where these devices are used to prevent injury to themselves or their pets. The warnings are on the land as well as published on the government websites and proclamations. They are required tools in the fight against predators. Eliminating them would only serve to increase predator population and the damage they do.

Anonymous | 9:19 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

Man is the only animal who poisons his own drinking water.

AS | 9:20 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

That poor man could have been me too. I've never heard of these things until I read this story, if I happened upon one, I might touch it out of curiosity too. And heaven help the poor child who stumbles upon one of these things when a parent's back is turned for a second. Parents often take their children out in the wilderness for camping and all terrain vehicle fun. It's only a matter of time before someone is killed.

J in SLC | 9:40 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

I'd like to see the data to back up this claim:

"livestock losses from coyotes and other wildlife could be two to three times higher than current levels ï¿½ estimated at $16.3 million per year in the sheep industry and $51 million in cattle losses..."

Moreover, I'll bet $51 million is a drop in the bucket compared to overall gross sales of the cattle industry.

A cost/benefit analysis would probably not support the use of these things. But then again, a cost/benefit analysis would probably not support raising cattle in the desert (without government welfare). I say it's time we get the ranchers off government cheese.

Steve in St. George | 10:13 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

I have seen these devices many times. Each of the ones I have seen have warnings right on it. I don't know why anyone would touch them even if they didn't see the warning signs, although I don't know how he missed them. I think he was very irresponsible. I can't think of any survey sign or anything like it that I would touch

ron | 11:37 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

yes folks, what ever tickles your fancy. then you can be as china and pay twenty dollars just for the meat on your night out.

at least warn us | 11:39 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

I've lived in Utah for 5 years and never before heard of these, though I have heard of dogs getting stuck in leg hold traps near trails. How about the courtesy of at least warning tourists and newcomers?

lazyedna | 11:41 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008

Isn't this a perfect example of when a LAWSUIT is called for?
They are damn lucky it didn't happen to someone who understands the VALUE of a VALID lawsuit that protects others from having the same terrible disaster happen to them.

You can damn sure count on me calling Jerry Spence to sue the US gub'mint over something like this.

Longhorn | 12:03 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

The devices are a necessity and warning signs are posted so the man does not have an excuse! I don't understand why people think they have the right to steal, meddle with, or destroy things that are located on private property, Forrest Service, or BLM land. If they can't leave things alone then stay off the land or suffer the consequences. I have known of people that work at cyanide production plants that have been in contact with cyanide gas and they did not suffer any after effects (they passed out and were rescued). I think the person is crying wolf to try to get some money!

Livestock Owner | 1:13 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

It is required that each of these devices also have 2 signs that are 8 1/2" x 11" posted within so many feet of the poison along with one near the enterance of the property. They are red with the poison symbol on them along with further information in English and Spanish. It is VERY obvious that they are poisonous devices from the signage around them! They are a necessity to livestock owners!

Anonymous | 1:40 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

Love the comments about living on government cheese. Please, I don't you really know how the livestock industry works. I have no problem getting rid of public land grazing, as long as we return these lands to private ownership.

Think about a city comparison. We'll let you work in downtown St. Louis, in a poorly lit area, but the city won't do anything to deter crime, violence, etc. in the area. We won't arrest any criminals lurking or send police for help. Good luck on your own. That's essentially what you want from ranchers. Largely out of touch.

wow | 2:17 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

Some of these rancher types seem to value food animals above humans.

Matthew | 3:32 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

To Anonymous: How can one "return" public land to private ownership when it never, ever, was private. Some people viewed it that way but we are talking about public land, period. How about a comparison? What would happen if I was having trouble with graffiti taggers and I set up a poison booby trap to get them and an inocent person was injured or killed? Oh yeah, we would never allow such a situation to begin with because booby traps are a bad idea. If there are so many of these preditors out there, then hunt them. Truth is they are wily and few. So having hundreds or thousands of devices that sit and wait for long periods of time is what people choose to use as a simple expediency. What did they do before 1080, M-44, and airplanes? (That is a rhetorical question by the way, I know the answer) Why can't we go back to having herders that watch over the herds? Just because something is a cheaper or easier solution doesn't mean it is a better or sensible solution. How much does the US Government shell out every year for "preditor control?"

baiting readers | 4:18 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

The story was obviously written to receive the responses it has gotten.

a citizen shaking my head | 4:51 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

I have never heard of such insanity in my life! The persons who came up with that plan should have their head examined....seriously.
First the environmentalists cause introduction of wolves which cost alot of money. Now look what has happened with this poison....to get rid of them Is it safe to go into the mountains any time soon. Get the bill against this craziness and lets vote NO

Timj | 4:53 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

Anyone reminded of land mines?
What are the specific rules about posting warnings? How close do they need to be to the land mine...I mean pesticide?
It is rather silly that ranchers can let their animals graze for free on public land.
BYU owns some land (a nature reserve) down by St. George. A fence separates the reserve from federal land which is used for grazing. The BYU side is beautiful--wildflowers, etc. The grazing side is dull and monotone. Cattle have a huge effect on the land that they graze.

Livestock | 5:04 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

J in SLC I can not believe you are that nieve. So let say we take away rancher rights to graze their cattle, which by the way they pay to use federal lands, do you realize what the cost of beef will do, sky rock. Leave the ranchers be, they are trying to make a living, which if these ranchers were to go out of buisness, The articles in DN would read "BEEF TO EXPENSIVE". Ranchers are doing the best that they can with what they have. I do not mean to be insensitive to the person who got hurt, but if you see something suspicious, don't you think it is wise to leave it alone, especially in our society today. the only good coyote is a dead coyote.

Wildlife Vet | 5:07 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

These devices are placed to attract and destroy predators. They do their job quite well. And, perhaps there is some merit to requiring a warning of some kind that says, "WARNING - if you are dumb enough to attempt to tamper with, or remove what looks like a surveying implement (already protected by law), you will be sprayed with a potentially lethal substance." I am sorry that the man was injured, however, what ever happened to taking responsibility for our own actions. If you don't know what it is, then don't touch it! If you believe it does not belong there, contact authorities. That's what they're for.

Anonymous | 6:08 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

why do people feel they need to touch these things... mind your own business and be glad you are even allowed to ride all terrain vehicles

RJA | 6:17 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

I have a brother who is lucky to be alive. While he and I were hunting 10 years ago near Kamas, he picked up what he thought was a small aluminum pipe. There was a small pop, I was 5 ft away at the time, and small cloud of reddish powder was released which covered his hands. We both looked at each other wondering what had happened. THERE WERE NO MARKINGS, SYMBOLS, ETC ON THE PIPE. I walked around the area while he stood there with his hands coated in this red powder. About 10 ft away I located a small red flag with a poison symbol and the words "DANGER CYANIDE". Later we found out from the forest service and the trapper who placed the device that it had malfunctioned and had not fully activated. Well, thank goodness for malfunctions or my brother would probably be dead. based on my real-life experience I AM ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN ONE OF THESE WILL KILL SOMEONE. It is truly a miracle no one has died yet. The days of large tracts of public land with no one on it has passed, and so should the use of these devices!

Paul S | 10:12 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

As a coyote hunter at one time for a couple of ranchers in the west deseret I know these devises are not needed.

These are a cheap alternative to hiring people for pest eradication. I guess to some ranchers the colateral damages suffered by some people by being poisioned is not a serious issue to them. These chemicals eventually make it into the water tables under our state.

Stilhunter | 10:16 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

The majority of those responding to this issue have no idea what they are talking about. Before everyone gets on their high horse they should go to the source and learn what is required to place these devices.

CC | 10:57 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

By law, the government places a warning, usually on the fence posts entering into an area. I have found these often times near cattle guards. As mentioned by others, the signs are really quite obvious if you are paying attention. The M44 device also should have a sign within 10-15 feet from the device, sticking up high enough to see. These devices are not carried way back away from roads, into wilderness areas, because the government trapper drives by to check the device. If you are in the west desert this time of year, and there are sheep in the area, there are probably M44 devices being used in the area where the sheep will be moved next. As with anything that poses a potential hazard / risk, a little education can go a long way to preventing an accident. I'm not a fan of M44s, but I do understand why they are used. One other thing, the government regularly uses airplanes for predator control....A pilot and gunner. Two such men were killed this year in an accident on the Parker Mountains. I have a friend whose brother was killed, along with the pilot a few years ago.

Jerry | 11:28 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008

The government at its worst. Colossally stupid!

trapper | 8:59 a.m. Jan. 23, 2008

Poison's are a risk to people, trapping is in humane and dogs can get caught in traps. So I suppose we just need to stop ranching all together. The coyote population won't get out of control will it? It's not like coyotes are going into people's yards and killing their dogs or anything in California where they have stopped predator control? I say lets villianize the trapper and rancher, and glorify the coyote.

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