Comments about ‘Lawmakers, LDS Church brainstorm’

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Published: Saturday, Jan. 19 2008 12:44 a.m. MST

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russ

Not a new idea but a good one: illegal immigration? Legal immigration?

Big fence, big gate. Verify all who enter and who are already here. Toss back those who won't comply.

A nation without secure borders is not a nation. And a nation without a heart and soul, is not one worth living in. I love this country.

questions

Mormon leaders appear to be moving inexorably to the liberal side of the political spectrum. Who in church leadership is pushing "element of humanity."

That brings up the question of the humanity of illegal immigrants whose demands on our system from criminal, educational and welfare costs have become enormous. Not all American students can get state resident college tuition as some states allow for illegals.

Precisely what does "element of humanity" mean. It appears that the statement is primarily directed at Hispanics as most of the comments in this stream shows, when in fact, illegal immigration spans a wide swath of ethnicities.

Some more facts

Corrupt governments in the world have over 5 BILLION people living in them. Are you willing to accept them all? Just how much do you believe that the U.S. citizen taxpayer can afford? Our economy is already in the toilet!

Have you seen the problems of the California budget? IT is rapidly approaching impossible to resolve. The governor just proposed a huge decrease is EVERY state function. It was 10% across the board. What do you think would happen to our education system if we did the same? It IS coming if we do not deal with the problem of overloading our schools with the children of illegal immigrants who are NOT here legally.

We had a state audit that determined that the cost of illegal immigration to our education system was at least 58 million, perhaps as much as 85 million - or more. Which one of you pro-illegal alien folks are willing to pick up the tab for these people?

Betrayed

Deal with the issue "humanely"? I'm sorry, but what's "inhumane" about denying illegal immigrants driver's licenses? What's "inhumane" about denying illegal immigrants in-state tuition? What's inhumane about denying them bank accounts or bank loans or public education or birthright citizenship or fining employers who hire them?

This isn't about treating illegals "inhumanely." This is the LDS Church acknowledging what many of us have long suspected: that they are fully in favor of illegal immigration. Two reasons, I suspect: one is baptism arbitrage - a member baptized in Latin America who moves here illegally is far more likely to remain a member and will pay a whole lot more in tithing over the long haul.

The other is that so many of the Church's richest members benefit financially from illegal immigration: the Ivorys, the Marriotts, the Holdings, the Peerys, the Fultons, etc. The LDS Church has always taken a special view of its rich members.

Another thing I'd like to know: when the Church speaks out in support of "right-wing" causes (anti-abortion, etc.) the leftists in this state are quick to jump on the "separation of church and state." Why are they so quiet now?

Alan

Amazing, I am not a mormon and I am not here to defend your church, but some of you that criticize the LDS church need to chill. I have lived in NC,Texas, Mo., and Az,you can bet your sweet arse that other religions make trips to their legislators to make sure that they know what their positions are. the Church of God in Mo. The Baptist in Texas,and NC, and yes the Catholic church in Arizona they all do. You are naive to think otherwise.

dave 4197

Glad to hear the LDS Church is speaking out against the ugliness of the immigration debate. We certainly need more compassion for our fellow human beings. Utah should be an example of this. I have written several posts in the DesMoNews, and in the SLTrib, consistently pointing out that we are a wealthy people, and we can afford to help those poor among us.
We need to invest our money and our time in helping our poor neighbors, by hiring them in good jobs, by educating them and their children in our schools, and by investing in building their economy in Mexico. People's quality of life is more important than an arbitrary line on a map. It's less expensive than many think.

To Just Saying

Actually, since the U.S. Mexican War was in progress during the first Mormon migration to the mountains, Utah actually belonged to the U.S. (rightly or wrongly) by the time the Mormons arrived.

Timing is everything!!

Thoughts of J. Lennon

Here's some thoughts about
people getting along:

Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine all the people living life in peace
Nothing to kill or die (and hate) for

Imagine all the people Sharing ALL the world
No need for GREED or HUNGAR

Imagine a Brotherhood of Man

You may say I'm a dreamer,
but I'm not the only one

Hope someday you'll join us
and the world will live as one...

Emil Stanstead

I more or less agree with their position, but I also still have to say they've no business wading into the argument. Stay out of the legislature, congress, and the presidency. Our churches should be places of a doctrine common to believers. Our governments have to be places of doctrine common to most, if not all, citizens.

Jew

The Mormons have all the right in the world to meet with politicians and whomever they want. All the whinners need to get a grip and go take a hike!

This is America, the land of the Free!!!

That humbled me.

Oh that I could have more of that spirit of empathy and compassion. I know without a doubt that when the church teaches throughout the world that we believe on honoring and obeying and sustaining the laws of the land, they mean it. I do not know how many illegals were Mormon's when they came over, but if they were, they would know better. Sometimes we citizens take for granted this great land we live in, others are so desperately wanting to be here. When the little dutch boy stuck his finger in the dike, that was a start to a major problem that needed to be fixed. We need to have a start with illegals and that is to secure the borders. Then we need to without hesitation get the ones who are committing crimes out of here. Then there comes the heart wrenching one, and I really need to understand the pain and anxiety that the good people who were trying to better their lives, but did it the wrong way are facing, that is what to do with them. Every case is different and we do need to have compassion and kindness, no matter the outcome.

bball3212

If you bash LDS church leaders for doing this, then you better well bash the evangelical leaders who not only try and get candidates elected, they preach politics from their pulpit and have no shame in doing so.

I agree that people need to chil

Alan (9:00 p.m.), "Amazing, I am not a mormon and I am not here to defend your church, but some of you that criticize the LDS church need to chill. I have lived in NC,Texas, Mo., and Az,you can bet your sweet arse that other religions make trips to their legislators to make sure that they know what their positions are....You are naive to think otherwise."

This is very difficult for people to accept in Utah because they choose to make everything about the LDS Church when it doesn't have anything to do with the Church. We saw how our legislature and people really listen to Church leaders when it came to repealing prohibition. The Church took an outspoken position on the issue and yet Utah was instrumental and crucial to repealing prohibition. So, I think that people do need to chill out and realize that every Church has the right to speak to the issues they feel are important to their Church and its members. Anything less would mean that a Church is subject to the state but has no right to influence the state. That is tyranny!

Voice of Reason?

I'm shaking my head reading some of this stuff. Thanks to the non-LDS folks here who defend the church's right to make its voice heard--NOT in the interest of getting new members (huh?), but in the interest of promoting overall humanity and decency.

Three reasoned possible solutions:

1) Agreed, being humane DOESN'T mean we open our borders to Mexican drug gangs, human smugglers, and foreign terrorists, while allowing those among the illegal immigrants who have committed aggravated misdemeanors and felonies to remain. So we secure the border against certain groups we REALLY don't want here, and deport illegals with criminal records--to SOUTHERNMOST Mexico.

2) We give immigrants whose ONLY crime was entering without full legal permission, in the interest of feeding their families, a humane chance to make good. Let them pay the appropriate fines--with ample mandatory backing from their U.S. employers--and apply for legal work permits *from here.* Require them to return to Mexico to apply if they don't comply within 6 months.

3) We streamline the visa application process to make it less intimidating, but permanently revoke visas for those convicted of aggravated misdemeanors and felonies--and deport them, again to SOUTHERNMOST Mexico.

Humane yet just enough?

OC Surfer

I support the Church's position by showing "compassion" by unifying all illegal immigrant families living here in the U.S. back to their homelands. Their anchor babies are welcome to join them as well.

cjp

Can't believe the all Mormon bashing in the comments --- The LDS leaders just want to remind us that these people are for the most part diecent human beings and deserve to be treated accordingly.

LOL!

You think Billy Graham never met with political leaders? Do you also think the Pope never met with political leaders? Do you also think that Jewish and Muslim leaders are not also sat at the table to meet with those in political powers? The fact is that religious leaders, including LDS, do indeed meet with those that politically represent us for the simple fact that we as a people also follow those religious leaders.

Perhaps the mormons understand the immigration issues because it has the potential for being like the polygamy issue in which fathers were thrown in jail just as fathers may be sent back to Mexico.

Nope, I'm not a mormon either.

joining forces

The Catholic church has been embracing the Statue of Liberty's "Give me your tired, your poor ..." in aiding the poor and impoverished masses for a long, long time.

Can you imagine the impact on the world today by the combined efforts of the Catholics and the Mormons in this regard?

What an incredible example it would be!

Gordon

If the Mormon church leaders meet with the Utah legistlature then they will meet with Mitt about US policy. That is the point and that is why we are very concerned about Mitt, and Huckabee is no better.

Family of 7

I have believed all my life in obeying the Law of the land as the church has said. However, I find much of this far too hypocritical. I will no longer will remain a member.

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