Comments about ‘Lawmakers, LDS Church brainstorm’

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Published: Saturday, Jan. 19 2008 12:00 a.m. MST

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north carolina

anyone that can't see why this immigration debate is more of a human issue (not so much a moral issue) than most other legal debates is missing something. As such, wouldn't you expect any church that espouses Christian principles to show some compassion on these people, most of whom are trying to improve their living standards? To try and read some ulterior motive into the church's comment is a bit paranoid in my opinion.


I thought the church stayed out of politics. But, here they are beaking off about something very political.
I figure they ought to be considered a 'think tank' or something like that. And pay taxes.

A True Patriot

I'ts rather amusing how people who say the law must be obeyed period, therefore we must crack down on immegration, think nothing of speeding or several other laws that they (as we all do) break all the time.

Face it, the United States does not have clear title to all of its land. There were broken Indian treaties, the war of unprovoked agression against Mexico by which got all the land from Mexico and slavery. Face it, the Unites States has not always been the best of world citizens, and we must accept this bad heritage just as we so gladly accept that portion of our heritage which is positive. Unless one believes that by taking something by force, one can gain clear title, then one can't believe we have clear title to much of our land therefore we need to be accomidating to those we took it from.


Do the GOP and Dem leaders meet with leaders of other faiths before general sessions to be told how to run things too? I find this really disturbing. The LDS Church has always said it stays out of politics yet here they are directing how the legislature should approach various issues. And don't get me started on the incredibly stupid liquor law...let's move over-the-counter cough suppressants to the liquor stores too...


It seems as if the LDS church would stress obedience to God's laws, not state or federal law. I personally see a distinction. So I don't see anything amusing about it at all.


The article was not about the Church not wanting to obey the immigration laws. It was about the Church asking for us to be more humane and less hatefull when it comes to making laws and discussing illegals. The 12th article of Faith of the Church says that members of the church believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. Bob, it seems as though you are looking to find fault where there is none.


All the idiots on the "alcopop" forum can stuff their "the church has a right to get involved in moral issues" stance. This article says every year leaders of both parties meet with leaders of the LDS church. Yes I have a problem with that. Don't call me an anti or say i'm mormon bashing. But as a non LDS person I think these legislative leaders should be impeached. the LDS church gets their say every Sunday for 3 hours. that shoulds be enough.


TheChurch needs to continue to stay out of politics, including immigration. I was surprised that the Church is trying to influence state politics. Why don't we just let everyone in Mexico into Utah and then the Church can convert them. NOT But that is what it sounds like. I con't have a problem with the stand on alcohol but your policy of staying of politics seems to be weakening. Brethren, don't pretend to be bi-partsian and then try to influence the issues under the table. Mitt R is getting exactly what he should have expected. I don't know why anyone is surprised.

He that is without sin ...

Not only the LDS church. Jesus himself wasn't a stickler for following the Law either. When the woman caught doing adultery was taken to him, rather than tell them to carry out the law, he told them, "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".


"Special Affairs committee"? Will Mit have one of these too if president?


"eveything to do with getting illegals to join the church..." Are you suggesting that they are easily manipulated? There's no conspiracy dude. And just because someone is an "illegal" doesn't mean they are incapable of making a knowledgable decision regarding religion.

To Bob:

Did you read the article, Bob? The church took NO POSITION on the issue. They just wanted legislators to remember that they were dealing with humans when making their decisions. Don't try to spin this as disobedience to immigration laws, otherwise you just make yourself look ignorant.


Bob, take a chill pill! As for myself I believe we need to enforce current laws regarding illegal immigration and deal with the illegals that are currently here. Border security....have never figured that one out on why we haven't put more emphasis on it in the past. In regards to the Church's stance, (Making sure we remember the humanity) side of things is great counsel. We get so caught up in the emotional and hate side of things that we do not think things clearly through. Keeping cool heads is paramount. As for your snide remark regarding the church getting illegals to joint the church...UMM, that's what the church does whether you are legal or illegal. Teach the fulness of the gospel to ALL.


Sad but true. Illegal immigration fuels church growth, and the Utah economy. Utah sold its soul, exchanging a once-beautiful valley for a polution-fouled expanse of concrete and asphalt.

Diana Butler

I don't think the Church is condoning breaking the laws. I think they are trying to follow Jesus' example of compassion for others. If we are only compassionate to those who obey the law then we will have very few opportunities for compassion. Christ's example with those seeking to stone the woman taken in sin is something we ought to keep in mind. "He who is without sin cast the first stone"...

This doesn't mean that there should be no consequence for illegal immigration. But I have been shocked by the venom projected towards these people in many of the discussions I have heard. I can't help but think that our self-righteous persecution (yes, persecution) of these people is the greater sin. Compare Jesus' comments on the sinners versus what he says about the hypocrites - or have you never broken the law?

The Church is a religious institution trying to save souls. I think they are totally justified in their counsel. What will be interesting is to see how many "good members" will listen and find constructive solutions.


If you're referring to Rep. Chris Cannon, he works as a Congressman, not for the Deseret News.
I think you're right to some extent--the LDS Church has a lot of success among Hispanic immigrants in Utah. But they also know that the majority of Hispanics that come to Utah remain Catholic. I think it has more to do with the fact that the LDS Church is an international church, and a large part of its membership is in Central and South America. The Utah Church has a closeness to its Hispanic members worldwide. And they would rather have their members stay there, where the Church is weaker, than immigrate to Utah.
I think it has more to do with compassion. The Church isn't condoning disobedience of the law; it's trying to influence what the law is. And it hopes that immigration laws and policies don't ruthlessly split up families and deport everyone without any consideration of circumstances. I think that the Church would not want its members in Latin America to think that the Utah leaders don't care about how they're treated.


There is a major problem happening here on so many levels. First, An obvious breech of seperation between church and state. Of course the LDS church wants illegals here. The reason why the church's membership numbers are growing the fastest in 3rd world countries is because they make promises of better lives to people who have very limited resources and are vulnerable. If the church follows its own party line, which is to obey the laws of the land, then there should be no question of support for deporting illegals and making sure they receive no benefits (through the church or otherwise) that take away from legal citizens. I am not uncompassionate, but illegal immigrants are just that...illegal. The church sees the illegals pouring across the borders and they see their membership numbers on a drastic up-swing. Nobody ever tells the truth when it comes to the LDS church influence.


No representation without taxation!


I applaud the LDS church for trying to put compassion back into laws. Obviously the LDS church isn't perfect and so as a citizen I feel it is my duty to encourage them to do good continually.

as for Bob's comments, the immigration situation isn't as black and white as you would want. The US for years has encouraged illegal immigration. These immigrants would like to earn a living for their families. Is that hard to understand? Obviously they broke a law but so did you when you pulled the tag off your mattress.
As a citizen I encourage the LDS church to come out in favor of legislation that helps families and discourage laws that harm them. If the LDS church wants to be seen as Christians they must come out in defense of all that is Holy in a compassionate way.


I thought that we were supposed to have separation of church and state in the United States. Except in Utah!!!

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