Comments about ‘Lawmakers, LDS Church brainstorm’

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Published: Saturday, Jan. 19 2008 12:00 a.m. MST

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When an organization places itself before the individual - that organization is a monstrous one.

Re: Anonymous 7:14

If you've never been accused of 2nd guessing a person's or an organization's motives then I'm going to do it to you here and now. I'm a member of the church and my wife is from Peru. I didn't marry wealth. I've worked extremely hard. Her and I were married in the temple. Don't find a few wealthy members of 'the church' though and cast a bone you have to pick with them. "The Church" if full of many people - handicapped, sick, sinners, repentant, blessed, not so blessed, healthy and strong and faithfull and doubtfull - - - I can tell you being a member of the church that I don't have ulterior motives anywhere near the ones you've mentioned. I'm in fact writing to you because I care about you. You've obviously been frustrated with elements of mortality that all of us are frustrated with sooner or later. I share your frustration in many ways. At the head of the church, however, is Jesus Christ and his teachings and words and life and everything he did and does is and taught and teaches is what 'the church' stands for. You're not perfect and I'm not either.


***"If you've never been accused of 2nd guessing a person's or an organization's motives then I'm going to do it to you here and now."***

So much of what the LDS Church does happens behinds closed doors. It makes decisions on how to spend money behind closed doors. It makes decisions on doctrine and policy behind closed doors. It selects its leadership behind closed doors.

It doesn't HAVE to, but it DOES.

If it did these things openly then you could make more of a legitimate claim about how bad it is to second-guess what they do.

***"At the head of the church, however, is Jesus Christ and his teachings and words and life and everything he did and does is and taught and teaches is what 'the church' stands for."***

No, Jesus Christ is not at the head of the Church. Who is referred to as its president? Not Jesus, but Gordon B Hinckley. The fact is that these men make decisions on their own, without Jesus's help.

They may purport to speak for Jesus Christ, but it's up to us to decide whether that claim is true or not. I've made up my mind.


Re: Anonymous

You keep telling the same story over and over again. We have heard time after time about your wife being from PERU. I cannot help it that it bothers you so much. It is no ones fault who you married. So quit trying to put everyone on here on a guilt trip. Please give it a break, friend.

re: Wilkey | 8:52 p.m

In reference to your quote: "They may purport to speak for Jesus Christ, but it's up to us to decide whether that claim is true or not. I've made up my mind."
Instead of spending so much time on these blogs, why don't you do something about it. You and others that are members of the church that can be so critical about it and it's leaders fail to understand you have the capability to express an opinion. And I don't mean across these blogs.
And how to do it... In April, there will be a general conference. At all conferences there will be a sustaining of officers. If you and others like you have so much hatred for the church, here is your opportunity. When they ask for any that oppose the leadership of the mormon church, why don't raise your hand? Here is your day to make history. Take it and raise your hand to the square and vote NO for the mormon church leadership.


My father emigrated here back in the 1930's from the Philippines. He learned English, joined the US Navy and fought in WWII and in the Korean Conflict. For his service he was able to earn his citizenship, but he still had to take the test like everyone else. Now...there's an idea! Why not have the illegals earn their right to be here by serving in the military? Or is that asking too much?


As a Protestant Christian, I'm all for compassion, but the law is the law. MILLIONS of ILLEGAL ALIENS have been willfully invading our country, working the system -- signing up for welfare, food stamps, SOCIAL SECURITY(which in 2008 will be given to ILLEGALS who never paid into it!!!), having "anchor" babies so their kids have US citizenship because they were born on US soil (outrageous) and other nonsense. Where's the compassion for the AMERICANS who have to foot the bill, who are murdered by illegals (25 a day!), and have to live in homes that depreciate in value because several families cram into one home, lowering property values and quality of life. Enough is enough. Check out: ALIPAC and NUMBERSUSA, and The Dustin Inman Society -- get involved!


The law is the law -- if you break it, you get punished, period. Why is this illegal immigration situation any different?!? The illegals are ruining the America that once was. Where's the compassion for the American worker who's wages are depressed because of the influx of cheap labor?!? Where's the compassion for the 25 Americans MURDERED every day in the US by illegals?!? Sorry, but my "compassion" for these people who willfully and knowingly VIOLATE our laws has dried up. It's time to get tough. Build the fence, and deport all illegals. The laws in Mexico are much stricter towards illegals, yet the US is supposed to just leave the door open. The taxpayer foots the bill and the quality of life because of illegals keeps going down. Enough of this!


To: dootee2: The reason most of the illegals don't even both coming to the US legally is because they have no intentions of staying for good. They want to work here for 5-10 years, send their money back to Mexico and go back. This is exactly why they don't learn English and have a get whatever I can get for free attitude. I've talked to the illegals who were working on my reroof on my house and they all said the same thing. And I tell all contractors, no illegals on my job, but they all lie saying they don't hire illegals, but yet none of them speak English and admit to being here illegally. It's gotten to the point of being BRAZEN -- they're not hiding "i-n the shadows!" -Report all illegals to ICE: 1-866-347-2423


What I find absolutely amazing is that LDS church officials are meeting with the state legislatures about policies and laws. What happened to separation of church and state? The church is clearly trying to influence Utah politics. To that end, the church should give up its tax exempt status since they are so clearly trying to involve itself in politics (per usual). They are pandering to the illegals just like some politicians and pro-illegal groups. As usual, it's ALL about the money!


If Jesus were alive he would give amnesty to all the 12 million+ who live in the shadows. He believed in grace and mercy. Just look at the prodigal son. Make those who are here pay a fine, but allow them to become legal. They are helping our economy and make major contributions.


What is going on? You don't want to see the real picture. It is better to take it on working families in this country rather than facing that you know nothing about why immigrants come to this country. Everyone, with one exception, are linking "illegal" with "Hispanics". Hispanics were not responsible for the 9/11. You can blame Hispanics for been responsible in keeping this country's economy running: buying houses, cars, operating business, and supporting family values and, yes, paying taxes. Hispanics are blamed for taking their children to school? The law says they can. Lets ask Heavenly Father, the Holly Spirit, Jesus Christ and the prophet Joseph Smith what they think about this "h..." talking that I'm reading. And by the way, those of you with a lot of "American Heritage" try to communicate with your ancestors and hear what they think about you now. You may be surprised. Love means love, not "h...". Be sure to pray for those who love this country, maybe, better than you do, and help to send a better message to the world. We are all "sinners". Don't let pride do the talking. God loves you. Don't challenge him. Hispanics are not terrorists.


Ok, I only have one question. When Brigham Young first came to Salt Lake City with hundreds of members, weren't they officially in mexican territory? Did they have any kind of legal permission to migrate there or were the founding fathers of the church illegal immigrants? To my knowledge they only had permission from God. Hmm, reminds me of illegal immigrant members of the church today. BINGO!!!


In response to Anonymous, yes in 1847 SL was a mexican territory, in 1848 U.S. took it from Mexico. So the answer would seem to be yes, until 1848 they were illegal aliens. I say WOULD SEEM as I have no knowledge of immigration laws at the time in mexican territories.
However, the Saints settling did not receive medical treatment, food and housing paid for by forced charity (aka taxes) as the ones do today. To the contrary they suffered diesease and starvation and great hardship. This I know from reading ancestors journal entries.
Have to ever been a US citizen living in a sanctuary city? It seems you are trying to miminalize the negative impact that illegal aliens have on our country by your statement. Or maybe justify their actions. Maybe you are in the US illegally yourself or maybe you don't pay taxes so you don't care.


Bottom line...whether you are for or against getting rid of illegals in the U.S...The part of the new law that would require law enforcement officers to request immigration status if they suspect a person is in the U.S. illegally is discriminatory. Think about this really hard and don't let bias judgment get in the way. What are the criteria for suspecting that someone is in the U.S. illegally? Because they are brown or black? This, no doubt, will lead to racial profiling...which is a scary road for the U.S. to be taking. Racial profiling is going too far! Think out side the box...if you do not agree with giving amnesty to illegal’s (which…really what alternative is there with 18 million illegals in the U.S.)...don't start racial profiling to fix the immigration problem...that leads down a slippery slope which will ultimately infringe on the rights of all Americans in the long run.

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