Comments about ‘Lawmakers, LDS Church brainstorm’

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Published: Saturday, Jan. 19 2008 12:00 a.m. MST

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Sleepless in Ohio

It's so relieving that I live in a Gentile state where I can sit back and laugh at those who have such a hard time with lobbyists. Go to Rhode Island or Massachusetts and you'll see tons of Men of the Cloth in their black shirts and pants mingling with Legislators. It's no different for Utah or the LDS Church. Stop crying.


Methinks somebody is stumping for more converts.

About Lamanites

Message from LDS above indicates the illegals are Lamanites. Perhaps we should include DNA testing before legalization. If they pass the tribe of Joseph test, they can stay. Otherwise, they don't. Sound OK to you? If you insist they are Lamanites, read 3 Ne 20 beginning at about verse 15 to see what's in store for the infidel Gentiles. Let's stick with the "obey the laws of the land", shall we?


to Experienced Immigrant IV: you are correct. with 12 million plus illegals we are not going to ship them all home to where ever by what ever means. So we have to create a more workable solution. You and I and others did not create this mess, but we have the brains to logically, humanely and legally solve it. Give illegals so many months to come forward, get documented, and then let them get back to their jobs, pay taxes this time, and move on. Those who choose not to, they get the boot when caught. I have no idea how many will step forward, but they will if the idea is thoroughly publicized, leaders step forward to endorse it, and the means are available to be documented. We have the technology and the brains to organize this. But do we have the compassion and logical constructs? Not yet. It takes leadership. I listed to Mitt try to alibi his way past it. He was depending on luck. McCain is trying. But leadership needs to say: big fence, big gate, and let's give people their last great chance to be freely documented.
Maybe the democrats will have this answer. Eh?


From the article:
"We communicated our policy ... The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has taken no position regarding currently proposed immigration legislation"

Gosh, I really wonder what was inside the ellipses?

Seems to me the LDS church EITHER "communicated their policy" OR they had "taken no position" the answer is obviously in the edited out portion of the quote. The double-speak is pure Orwellian.


Don't ya just LOVE how a Theocracy works?


Sorry, but this article is quite confusing to me. I'm seeing some extreme double standards going on here. It doesn't intense my faith any. Thanks for the article... It makes me re-think everything I have been taught.


If the lds church is going to have any type of influence or say in what laws should be passed (not that they don't already, hello zion curtain)....

I think it's due time they started paying taxes! This state could greatly benefit from taxing the billions of dollars they generate each year.


The laws of our land should be upheld. The current law on the books reads if you are in the country illegally you are to be deported. Come to this country LEGALLY. The law protects all who are in the U.S. LEGALLY.


This is so late into the discussion that I doubt it will get printed or read, but I suggest that those who have turned this, as usual, into a bash the LDS church session, or a church and state issue, should go back and read the original sunbmission. 1st, who is blind enough here to think that no other church or social organization sits down with legislative representatives before legislative sessions. Jews, Catholics, various independent and collective Protestants etc, all have representatives that meet with legislative leaders on a wide variety of issues of importance to them. That the article specifically mentions LDS leaders, does not mean they had exclusive access. 2nd, there is no mention that the LDS church advocated the abrogation of the "law of the land", only that it ouight to be remembered that even illegal immigrants are human beings and that compassion ought to play a role in decision making. Please tell me why an organization of any kind would not advocate the compassionate treatment of its members, even those who have broken the law? 3rd, Where does ripping on someone else or their church, club, wealth or whatever, ever increase your stature one iota?


RE ediddy,
Perhaps you are missing the point as well. People like you are partly the problem. As far as bashing going on here looks like you have joined the crowd. Everyone has a reason to comment. I believe as others on have written on here, about obeying the law of the land including church authorities. Read the 12th article of faith.


I've bashed no one, am well versed in the "12th article of faith", and wonder what your point is or why I am part of the problem? I simply maintain that this has become a chat room instead of an ongoing commentary on the original point of the original article. The commentary so often devolves into the same old slams that it loses cognitive objectivity. I do not believe the DS church has violated the law in meeting with legislative entities to voice it's opinion. If legislative representatives would spend a little more time listening to their constituents, singly or collevtively, from any and all interests, maybe we'd get more from government than we now do. Rather than rag on the LDS church, perhaps the those of differing interests would be better served to lobby their own cause. Others do, and if you don't think so, you're not paying attention. UEA, Eagle Forum, ACLU, Sierra Club to name only a few.


My guess is when catholiics lobby the massachusets government they are not speaking with authority as much as informing. In the LDS culture it is expected the membership will obey when leadership speaks. When is the last time someone voted not to sustain the bishop in their ward? When the church had a letter read directing members to oppose same sex marriage a BYU professor wrote an op-ed opposing the church position. He was fired for disagreeing with the church. add the 80% plus majority in Utah state legislature and the church will get what it wants even if the indidual legislators disagree with church policy, We elect the legislator with an expectation of their votes. Not the votes of the first presidency.


RE ediddy,
Illegal immigrates are law breakers. As for me, I don't plan to pamper, hinder or egg on the problem. Supporters of law breakers are no better than the law breaker. Lets practice what we preach here! Live by-- and sustain all the laws of the land... No excuses!



You do have a point, but let me put say something that may take the edge off the obvious infraction of the law. I, like you, believe that laws should be enforced. However, let's suppose that we are discussing the penalty phase of the crime in question. Do you not agree that there is a range of penalties with various degrees of harshness? Say that your son breaks a curfew law and this is his only infraction? Should he spend a month in jail? That is too harsh and I am sure you would agree. I think what is being said here is that these are otherwise very good people (okay, not all, but most) we are dealing with here so the punishment should fit the crime and how justice is applied should be done appropriately.

As a member of the LDS religion I believe that laws provide order to society and without enforcement there is anarchy. Justice must be served, but it must be appropriate. I think the church leaders are just cautioning against mob mentality as opposed to thoughtful reasoning and putting things in proper perspective.


I agree with Shelly.

I say send them packing. They chose to break our laws to come here. So they need to leave on their own without force if possible. Nobody is getting violent here. The illegals, however, have brought violence with them, along with breaking many of our laws. I have no compassion for ID, murdering people, thievery nor violence. We as Americans just simply want these people to leave by word.

If my kid was causing trouble to the point of being in jail no matter how much I would hate it then so be it...what are my choices? NONE!!

RE: Russ -

I was discussing this solution with my father. I'll submit as well that with modern technology I'd think that some type of lazer fence of somekind that detects traffic would be much quicker and more efficient to use than a physical big fence - (although I know a big, physical, literal fence has been proposed etc.) - - - To any deportation Nazi's out there though, it's just un-realistic to somehow change things from how they are now (and that's that ICE - "Immigrations and Customs Enforcement") won't do anything until you have proof of someone's illegal immigration status. What incentives are there for anyone who associates with the public to go around narking on illegals and who has the time or heart for it? - It must be a negotiation rather than a dictatorial process where force is used, and the solution to the problem must come from those who have caused it. As it is in many ways the USCIS i.e. says, "come to the U.S. legally or don't come at all" but in the same breath they make it nearly impossible for some to come at all. My sister in law was one.


This is a poorly written article. Where are the "editors" at DMN?


The problem with criminals (illegals) is that they don't seem to reason as that of a normal thinking person. So this means it make take force to get them out of this country, and to take their crime and drugs along with them. It's supporters and people like 10:06 pm who are part of the problem.


I see the immigration issue has stirred up our Neo-Nazi Mormons on this blog.
These conservatives truly are a wonder to behold, aren't they?
Now I know what it must have been like in Nazi Germany when the same type of people wanted to round up everyone they didn't like.
A nasty people they are indeed.

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