Reader comments
LDS Church joins 'alco-pop' battle
151 comments | Read story
bob carlisle | 9:43 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008
last time i heard the lds church leadership wasnt voting on any proposals.
either the people or who the people elect will. if you dont agree with whom you
have elected then dont elect them. if these people keep getting elected then you
are in the minority, if your in the minority you need to accept that a majority
of your neighbors support this or you can leave, why do you waste time at the
deseret news sight, you have the salt lake tribune. the only people trying to
force views on this matter is you.
SS | 9:48 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008
1. Yes, the alcohol laws are absurd, treating grown-ups like children.
But--there are too many adults who act like children when it comes to alcohol.
I do support tougher penalties for drunk drivers. Death penalty works for me.
They knew the risk when they got in the car drunk. It is reckless endangerment
of others' lives.
2. Alco-pops or whatever they are are illegal to kids--that teens seem to like it is not the issue.
3. Any church has the right to speak out on what they perceive to be moral issues without violating church and state separation principles, and most do. The difference here is the press the LDS church gets in Utah
4. Disclosure-I am LDS and do not drink, and coming from an alcoholic family, I wouldn't drink even if I was not LDS.
5. I don't care if alcohol was available for purchase in grocery stores. I don't think it encourages anything. I grew up with it, and it never encouraged me. People either drink or they don't. But, you can still get enough alcohol in state liquor stores to get drunk in the middle of the day. Its just a convenience issue.
2. Alco-pops or whatever they are are illegal to kids--that teens seem to like it is not the issue.
3. Any church has the right to speak out on what they perceive to be moral issues without violating church and state separation principles, and most do. The difference here is the press the LDS church gets in Utah
4. Disclosure-I am LDS and do not drink, and coming from an alcoholic family, I wouldn't drink even if I was not LDS.
5. I don't care if alcohol was available for purchase in grocery stores. I don't think it encourages anything. I grew up with it, and it never encouraged me. People either drink or they don't. But, you can still get enough alcohol in state liquor stores to get drunk in the middle of the day. Its just a convenience issue.
bob carlisle | 9:49 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008
you cant go to the state store for boos now? do you not know drinking leads to
bad decisions, death, rape, etc. whats next you want porn in are check out
lines? come on you have an adult store and the family has a grocery store.
Comments continue below
Matthew | 10:11 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008
I think we should come together with an agreement..live happily ever after and
both sides sacrafice or meet in the middle somewhere..
so here's my proposal:
to make it fair and convienent for law abiding citizens who want to have the convienience of alco-pop in grocery stores *which have the same alchohol content as beer*. We'll agree to remove them from all grocery stores as long as LDS members are not allowed into grocery stores. This way the lds members will win a moral victory of saving lives and lds people won't annoy the crap out of non-lds people when they try to live a normal life. Win-win.
(I should be president..move over romney!)
so here's my proposal:
to make it fair and convienent for law abiding citizens who want to have the convienience of alco-pop in grocery stores *which have the same alchohol content as beer*. We'll agree to remove them from all grocery stores as long as LDS members are not allowed into grocery stores. This way the lds members will win a moral victory of saving lives and lds people won't annoy the crap out of non-lds people when they try to live a normal life. Win-win.
(I should be president..move over romney!)
Not so different | 10:17 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008
There are currentlt 19 states where the liquor is controlled by the government.
Why? because this is roughly 20 million dollars that go straight into the
schools. We are not as unique as you think. And our beer has no less alchohol
then other states. Yes it is 3.2 but other states measure diferently. That is
why you have the diferent numbers. One is measured by volume and the other by
weight. We are in fact less than half a percent diferent.
Me | 10:22 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008
My brother and I grew-up in Utah, raised in a LDS family. One day my brother
told me, if he were religious, he would rather be a Catholic. It's
stupidity like this that as inflected Utah that made me understand his point.
Mormons were always critical of the life's of others and Catholics were accepting.
Only in Utah can folks ignorant of drinking govern drinking.
In high school we had older friends, neighbors and relatives who would buy us alcohol. All you need is 120 proof vodka and fruit juice. The problem as been solved. By the way, th4ese are called mixed drinks.
Why drink?
You just call a few kids and you get a line on some killer green bud. Pot won't show on a breath test and there aren't hang overs.
You have a dumb feel good solution that solves nothing.
If Mitt were president you think I'm so dumb I believe the Mormon Church won't use him? One reason to vote against Mitt. I believe in freedom.
No. I don't drink.
Mormons were always critical of the life's of others and Catholics were accepting.
Only in Utah can folks ignorant of drinking govern drinking.
In high school we had older friends, neighbors and relatives who would buy us alcohol. All you need is 120 proof vodka and fruit juice. The problem as been solved. By the way, th4ese are called mixed drinks.
Why drink?
You just call a few kids and you get a line on some killer green bud. Pot won't show on a breath test and there aren't hang overs.
You have a dumb feel good solution that solves nothing.
If Mitt were president you think I'm so dumb I believe the Mormon Church won't use him? One reason to vote against Mitt. I believe in freedom.
No. I don't drink.
To DID you READ | 10:23 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008
I agree with you on some of what you said but I do have to say that YOU are the
ignorant one if you think that making liquor of any kind more available is not
going to entice the younger generation. I know from first hand experience that
it does and it will continue to. The more available liquor is, the more likely
kids are to get a hold of it and drink it. I have seen first hand the
devastating effects of alcohol. I have memories that I try to erase every day
of my life. So don't try to claim that those who are trying to lessen the
availability of alcohol are ignorant.
ROBERT | 10:27 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008
The LDS church has been brewing spirits since Joseph Smith saw his first spirit,
Moroni, and the state lets them sell at any book store :)
On a serious not, all churches have free speech rights to express openly their beliefs about alcohol distribution or any other issues that go against their beliefs. It's called the 1st and 14th Ammendments!
On a serious not, all churches have free speech rights to express openly their beliefs about alcohol distribution or any other issues that go against their beliefs. It's called the 1st and 14th Ammendments!
Common Sense | 11:52 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008
I agree that alcohol is a common sense issue.
That's why, after prohibiting it for a time, the country voted to make sales legal again. Because it was against common sense to assume that the country could dictate a prohibition.
That's why, after prohibiting it for a time, the country voted to make sales legal again. Because it was against common sense to assume that the country could dictate a prohibition.
EH? | 11:56 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008
I was shocked that alcohol of any kind was sold in a non liquor store when I
traveled through Utah. Other states have the same type of policy.... and I think
its a good one. I don't think its just an issue that the mormons take up -
i think a lot of different people/ religions feel the same way.
Anon | 12:47 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
I love stuff like this because it gives me a chance to read all the rehashed
arguments brought up by the pathetic, confused, Mormon-haters that love to rip
on the majority here in the state.
Remember the clean air issue regarding smoking many years ago? When the bill was introduced in Utah, it was the Mormon majority forcing their morals on the minority. Never mind that Utah was behind many states in the U.S. (including California) to enact that important legislation.
Here, the Mormon church is asked to back an initiative already put forward by another group. They do what ANY church should -- support ideas that make alcohol less accessible, especially when there is the appearance of the product targeting youth. The church is not picketing the state liquor stores. There is still ample opportunity to buy what you want. It may not be as convenient as other states, but so be it. Consumer restrictions exist in other states, not only on alcohol, and the same lame argument could be made there.
Remember the clean air issue regarding smoking many years ago? When the bill was introduced in Utah, it was the Mormon majority forcing their morals on the minority. Never mind that Utah was behind many states in the U.S. (including California) to enact that important legislation.
Here, the Mormon church is asked to back an initiative already put forward by another group. They do what ANY church should -- support ideas that make alcohol less accessible, especially when there is the appearance of the product targeting youth. The church is not picketing the state liquor stores. There is still ample opportunity to buy what you want. It may not be as convenient as other states, but so be it. Consumer restrictions exist in other states, not only on alcohol, and the same lame argument could be made there.
Paul | 1:07 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
I agree these beverages should be removed from grocery or convenience stores,
and should only be sold in state liqour stores, it is just too risky to sell
this sort of thing in grocery or convenience stores.
Tongue in Cheek | 1:10 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
Loved this comment, "I've also seen floor wax and paper towels in
grocery and convenience stores, and they don't promote teenage
cleaning."
I think perhaps we should consider removing orange juice from grocery store shelves as given a couple of weeks past the expiration date and you have a rather righteous alcoholic beverage albeit funky tasting. Then again perhaps removal of whole grain "health" breads would be appropriate as well since they too ripen to a delightfully fermented stage almost overnight.
This is a self-sufficiency state. C'mon people, wise up. It's not the pre-packaged liquor wanna-bes we should be worried about.
Thoroughly enjoying the lively if a bit ignorant rants of the day. :o)
I think perhaps we should consider removing orange juice from grocery store shelves as given a couple of weeks past the expiration date and you have a rather righteous alcoholic beverage albeit funky tasting. Then again perhaps removal of whole grain "health" breads would be appropriate as well since they too ripen to a delightfully fermented stage almost overnight.
This is a self-sufficiency state. C'mon people, wise up. It's not the pre-packaged liquor wanna-bes we should be worried about.
Thoroughly enjoying the lively if a bit ignorant rants of the day. :o)
mindless minions | 2:16 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
It seems obvious to me from reading your comments about "church-state
separation" that you people know NOTHING!!!!
You live off of sound bites.
go and read the constitution.
The lds church has an OPINION, just like other churches and organizaitions.
You are mad because you perceive your legilatures as puppets to the LDS Church. You are wrong there too.
Whne the Prophet of the LDS church is also the governor of the state, officially, then you can try and squawk about seperation. But you would still be wronmg.
Now if every child born in the state or transplants to the state were automatically forced to become LDS, then you have an argument.
Seperation of church and state is a sound bite.
Jefferson actually wrote about a wall of seperation for the FEDERAL GOVT. He state explicitly that STATES and LOCAL communities SHOULD incorparate religion and its teachings into their politics and laws. This is what a REPUBLIC does.
Now... turn off your TV and Radio... back away slowly, go to a thing called a library!!!! not wikipedia, a real building. Read the letters of jefferson and the commentaries about his letters at around the same time period.
You live off of sound bites.
go and read the constitution.
The lds church has an OPINION, just like other churches and organizaitions.
You are mad because you perceive your legilatures as puppets to the LDS Church. You are wrong there too.
Whne the Prophet of the LDS church is also the governor of the state, officially, then you can try and squawk about seperation. But you would still be wronmg.
Now if every child born in the state or transplants to the state were automatically forced to become LDS, then you have an argument.
Seperation of church and state is a sound bite.
Jefferson actually wrote about a wall of seperation for the FEDERAL GOVT. He state explicitly that STATES and LOCAL communities SHOULD incorparate religion and its teachings into their politics and laws. This is what a REPUBLIC does.
Now... turn off your TV and Radio... back away slowly, go to a thing called a library!!!! not wikipedia, a real building. Read the letters of jefferson and the commentaries about his letters at around the same time period.
Lexi | 2:33 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
I lost both of my parents from a young seventeen year old who had been drinking
and driving...almost nineteen years ago. The heartache has been unbearable. I do
believe teenagers would be drawn to these drinks, but even commons sense issues
get the Mormons bashers on their soap box. They will jump at anything to let
their stories be heard.
Mahershalalhashbaz | 2:34 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
YOU STATED:
"What good has alcohol ever done anyone? What bad has it done? How would it hurt anyone if they couldn't have it.
Lets compare it to another topic, and change all the words of alcohol to religion.
HERE IT GOES:
"What good has religion ever done anyone?
(Murder in the hundreds of thousands, and even into the millions, some by shootings and bombings, and others by crashing planes into tall buildings, many blow themselves up to take as many as they can with them)
What bad has religion done?
(The destruction of civil society and untold innocent people through out the world. It has been going on for thousands of years, and it continues to this day, everyday)
How would it hurt anyone if they couldn't have it.
(You tell me what happens if people can't have religion?)
I've never had it in all my life, and yet here I am, alive and well and happy I might add. Every day bad is caused by it."
(There are many who don't have religion, and are alive, well and happy, though so much bad is caused by it)
Shall we do away with religion?
"What good has alcohol ever done anyone? What bad has it done? How would it hurt anyone if they couldn't have it.
Lets compare it to another topic, and change all the words of alcohol to religion.
HERE IT GOES:
"What good has religion ever done anyone?
(Murder in the hundreds of thousands, and even into the millions, some by shootings and bombings, and others by crashing planes into tall buildings, many blow themselves up to take as many as they can with them)
What bad has religion done?
(The destruction of civil society and untold innocent people through out the world. It has been going on for thousands of years, and it continues to this day, everyday)
How would it hurt anyone if they couldn't have it.
(You tell me what happens if people can't have religion?)
I've never had it in all my life, and yet here I am, alive and well and happy I might add. Every day bad is caused by it."
(There are many who don't have religion, and are alive, well and happy, though so much bad is caused by it)
Shall we do away with religion?
TO JWK | 2:40 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
YOU STATED:
"That's like saying that kids are going to have sex anyway so why not give them a place to do it."
Well, guess what? The safe haven law was put into effect for teens to bring and drop off their newborn babies to any hospital without question and without penalties.
Using your calculation, it means that the law would encourage teens to care less if they get pregnant, because there is a way for them to get out of their predicament.
"That's like saying that kids are going to have sex anyway so why not give them a place to do it."
Well, guess what? The safe haven law was put into effect for teens to bring and drop off their newborn babies to any hospital without question and without penalties.
Using your calculation, it means that the law would encourage teens to care less if they get pregnant, because there is a way for them to get out of their predicament.
Soft PORN of COMMUNISM | 2:55 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
Look, the world has a term they use which they call soft porn. That's when
the fullness of porn are not exposed to the extent that hardcore porn does.
But to those of us who abhor porn, there is no distinction of soft or hardcore, because porn is porn. They hate it in whatever level it may be.
The sad thing about it is, there is such things as soft communism in this country that is exercised over the American people everyday of the week. The founding fathers knew this would happen, but the contstitution still couldn't protect everydbody, all of the time, hence Roe vs Wade, and Brown vs Board of Education.
Regardless, of whether it's soft communism for the good of the people, or hard communism for the good of the whole nation, such as is China, communistic heads continue to stick it's ugly triple head to the very people that it purports to protect, under the guise of good.
It's the reasons why we hear all the time of laws and court judgements that are reversed, once it was measured and found it to be unconstitutional.
Like porn, soft or hard, communism is still communism.
But to those of us who abhor porn, there is no distinction of soft or hardcore, because porn is porn. They hate it in whatever level it may be.
The sad thing about it is, there is such things as soft communism in this country that is exercised over the American people everyday of the week. The founding fathers knew this would happen, but the contstitution still couldn't protect everydbody, all of the time, hence Roe vs Wade, and Brown vs Board of Education.
Regardless, of whether it's soft communism for the good of the people, or hard communism for the good of the whole nation, such as is China, communistic heads continue to stick it's ugly triple head to the very people that it purports to protect, under the guise of good.
It's the reasons why we hear all the time of laws and court judgements that are reversed, once it was measured and found it to be unconstitutional.
Like porn, soft or hard, communism is still communism.
FAILURE to TEACH their kids | 3:13 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
I think it's only appropriate to acknowledge the inadequacies of parents in
this state, since, it seems that the only way for their kids to behave is to
remove all the obstables naturally comes their way.
It's a bit like teaching their kids to swim by removing all the water from the pool so they don't swallow water, and especially, so they won't drown.
Sure, by all means, restrict access of all things harmfull, but to think that one can remove all harm in order to bring kids up to be responsible adults is really naive thinking and parenting.
The sad lessons I learn watching Super Nanny, is that, it's not the kids that's the problems, it's the PARENTS who makes kids turn bad. Of course, not saying all bad kids comes from all bad parents, but there are powerful evidence of the extreme power that amazing parenting skills brings forth amazing results.
Hence, to blame the environment as the source of the problems for your kids is a direct denial in one's inabilities as strong teachers and exemplars to their own children.
Blame not society, but do accept responsibility that the failure has always come from the home.
It's a bit like teaching their kids to swim by removing all the water from the pool so they don't swallow water, and especially, so they won't drown.
Sure, by all means, restrict access of all things harmfull, but to think that one can remove all harm in order to bring kids up to be responsible adults is really naive thinking and parenting.
The sad lessons I learn watching Super Nanny, is that, it's not the kids that's the problems, it's the PARENTS who makes kids turn bad. Of course, not saying all bad kids comes from all bad parents, but there are powerful evidence of the extreme power that amazing parenting skills brings forth amazing results.
Hence, to blame the environment as the source of the problems for your kids is a direct denial in one's inabilities as strong teachers and exemplars to their own children.
Blame not society, but do accept responsibility that the failure has always come from the home.
I say... | 3:39 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
...we simplify things. Forget selling "alco-pops" in grocery,
convenience or liquor stores! Give it away in the schools (along with a free
supply of condoms) as part of the school lunch program. Teenagers are going to
drink anyway as it�s just something that all teens do!
I don't know about you but I don't want my kids to be thought of by their peers as "squares" if they don't get to drink and have sex like all the cool kids. The schools are far better positioned to educate our kids and mold their behavior (as well as determine if the student is sufficiently mature ie. old enough) than parents, church leaders, the legislature, the attorney general, MADD etc...
Wait a minute, that might not work. Someone will start complaining that they should get an alcohol voucher or opt-out for their kids so they can choose what kind of alcohol they should be drinking.
Utahn's and especially Utah Mormons -- what a bunch of control freaks.
I don't know about you but I don't want my kids to be thought of by their peers as "squares" if they don't get to drink and have sex like all the cool kids. The schools are far better positioned to educate our kids and mold their behavior (as well as determine if the student is sufficiently mature ie. old enough) than parents, church leaders, the legislature, the attorney general, MADD etc...
Wait a minute, that might not work. Someone will start complaining that they should get an alcohol voucher or opt-out for their kids so they can choose what kind of alcohol they should be drinking.
Utahn's and especially Utah Mormons -- what a bunch of control freaks.
ha ha ha | 3:59 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
this is a preety funny thread but ya i guess it would be an okay idea it wouldnt
really stop the drinkin problem. To many kids have brothers/sisters who can get
alchohol to them for free or people have a fake i.d. but if the law was passed
it wouldnt even make a difference there would just be less boon farm runs
Fredd | 4:00 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
Utah sells 3.2 beer in grocery stores. Technically these are 3.2 flavored beer.
If you are saying they are not beer I'll agree with removing them or
changing the law. To say tha they will cause minors to drink is true only in
the sense they may taste better then beer. But selling them in grocery stores
doesn't make them available to minors. If a kid is willing to steal to
drink they'll settle for beer.
Former Teen | 4:12 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
When I was a teen (recently) kids were more drawn toward this type of
drink--plus parents don't recognize it as well. I had friends that drove
drunk on this type of thing. For some reason teens don't see this type of
drink real alcohol so much as beer and drink more.
Cammy | 8:20 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
There are clearly so many Mormon haters that want to take every opportunity to
blame the Mormons for one thing or the other. Don't they realize that they
are stooping to the same level that they say these Mormons are on? Utah
isn't the only state with strict liquor laws and it certainly wasn't
the first state to ban smoking in public. I have meant Mormons who seem like
nice, normal people. I don't understand all they believe, but you Mormon
bashers are pathetic!
To Cammy | 10:31 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
Please, stick to the issues and don't point fingers, because there are more
than points back at you.
To make claims that Mormon bashers are pathetic has to be because it takes one to know one.
The issues that people here have is the utter control that Mormons tend to have over people. It's part of the culture, part of the teaching, to be obedient to leaders, to regard their words the same as God's words, (this is found in their scriptures) and to regard church leader's actions and words to be the actions and words of God.
These are basic doctrines of Mormonism that began right from the beginning of the Corporation of the President. I know, because I am one. I served 2 years dutifully, with honor, and don't smoke, drink and are a virgin when I got married in the temple.
Do I have to agree with everything Mormon leaders say? And if I don't, am I a moronic Mormon?
Perhaps I differ that, I listen to what the spirit says, which is that every man has given a right by God, this is taught by the church, as free agency.
It's simple, really.
To make claims that Mormon bashers are pathetic has to be because it takes one to know one.
The issues that people here have is the utter control that Mormons tend to have over people. It's part of the culture, part of the teaching, to be obedient to leaders, to regard their words the same as God's words, (this is found in their scriptures) and to regard church leader's actions and words to be the actions and words of God.
These are basic doctrines of Mormonism that began right from the beginning of the Corporation of the President. I know, because I am one. I served 2 years dutifully, with honor, and don't smoke, drink and are a virgin when I got married in the temple.
Do I have to agree with everything Mormon leaders say? And if I don't, am I a moronic Mormon?
Perhaps I differ that, I listen to what the spirit says, which is that every man has given a right by God, this is taught by the church, as free agency.
It's simple, really.
One Grandpa | 10:51 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008
The ranting that I�ve seen posted here seems to come from
those who would be inconvenienced by having any or all alcoholic beverages
removed from the grocery store shelves.
I feel terrible that you would have to go through that � driving to another store in order to buy alcohol. What could have come over the rest of us? I�m truly sorry for being so inconsiderate. NOT!
I have the right to try and protect my children and grandchildren from those who would cause them harm. That�s why here in California, we have laws about driving while under the influence � if someone gets injured or killed, you could be tried under the California Three Strikes law (meaning jail for 25 years to life), as well as be sued in civil court.
Attacking any group of people in order to promote delusional or myopic viewpoints is pathetic and irresponsible behavior as it usually only about YOU and no one else.
Inconvenient � not handy or easily accessible.
Irresponsible � not mentally fit to assume responsibility.
Myopia � lack of discernment or shortsightedness in thinking or planning.
Pathetic � inadequate or pitiful.
Rant � violent, loud or raving speech.
I feel terrible that you would have to go through that � driving to another store in order to buy alcohol. What could have come over the rest of us? I�m truly sorry for being so inconsiderate. NOT!
I have the right to try and protect my children and grandchildren from those who would cause them harm. That�s why here in California, we have laws about driving while under the influence � if someone gets injured or killed, you could be tried under the California Three Strikes law (meaning jail for 25 years to life), as well as be sued in civil court.
Attacking any group of people in order to promote delusional or myopic viewpoints is pathetic and irresponsible behavior as it usually only about YOU and no one else.
Inconvenient � not handy or easily accessible.
Irresponsible � not mentally fit to assume responsibility.
Myopia � lack of discernment or shortsightedness in thinking or planning.
Pathetic � inadequate or pitiful.
Rant � violent, loud or raving speech.
Jodi | 12:14 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
I wanted to read all of the comments on this board, but got too bored. I keep
reading the same thing over and over again. This has nothing to do with the
Mormon church, or MADD, or any other organization. It has to do with Alcohol
and how it's being distributed. I think that restricting beers and the
flavored beers in liquor stores is absolute madness. Utah doesn't have
many liquor stores around, I would have to drive 15 or 20 minutes to get to the
one nearest to me. And most of them close at 7, which is highly inconvenient.
I can understand how others don't want the flavored beers in the grocery
store, but come on now, taking them out of the grocery store isn't going to
make the kids not want them. They'll drink if they want to. What we need
to do is educate children on alcohol and drugs, instead of sweeping this whole
issue under the rug. Also, I have heard complaints about grocery and convenient
stores not checking for id, well let's train the employees better. This
has nothing to do with the Mormon church. So drop it.
Tom | 12:15 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
Awesome!! It is great to have such an organization that cares about others
enough to make a stand!!!
Public Health Opinion | 2:06 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
From a public health opinion, I was taught early on in my career that public
health is not a moral issue. If you debate the moral side you are missing the
point. The issue at hand is creating what is called a built environment to
limit or prevent those underage from having ACCESS to these beverages. Just
contact your local public health department and they have a whole department
dedicated to creating and implementing programs to reduce the number of underage
drinking. To think that this is the cure all solution you are mistaken. In
public health we lobby for the creation of laws and to create education programs
as well. All efforts combined have a synergistic effect. Call your state health
department and they can provide all the statistics for Utah you need to support
their efforts. All phases of Public Health issues has some sort of environment
change. And for those who cite obesity as a more important issue, I invite you
to take a stand like the LDS church did and voice your opinion and take action.
Its one thing to say what needs to happen, and another to do something about it!
dream | 2:51 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
This is not about morality, Church intrusion. This is about our children. These
monsterous evil corporations are targeting our kids. prepping them for their
future alcohol dependent profits. Sadly, I heard once that about approx. 90
persent of the individuals in prison committed their crimes under the influence
of addictive drugs alcohol included. Isn't it interesting how harmful
things are transformed by evil individuals into candy coating, fruit flavored
inticements. We need to protect our childrens from people that would do them
harm. If it means a little inconvience for you who would like a bubble gum
alcolol drink, so be it.
jim | 4:51 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
Critical thinking people, church member or not, recognize the damage alcohol
presents to self and society. The alco-pop is another crafty, irresponsible way,
courtesy of Lucifer, to introduce alcohol into society, especially to those most
vulnerable.
To those who feel concerned about freedom or liberty being abused because of a responsible, non-drinking of alcohol stance being taken, you need not worry. Opposition to common sense and true doctrine is expected, and unfortunately, occurs.
Some choose to rebel because they feel they do not have a voice. I say to those who feel such that you do have a voice. Stand for what is right. Do not drink. Be an example to your families, that there might be one less accident on the highway. One less person killed because of alcohol. Stay strong.
To those who feel concerned about freedom or liberty being abused because of a responsible, non-drinking of alcohol stance being taken, you need not worry. Opposition to common sense and true doctrine is expected, and unfortunately, occurs.
Some choose to rebel because they feel they do not have a voice. I say to those who feel such that you do have a voice. Stand for what is right. Do not drink. Be an example to your families, that there might be one less accident on the highway. One less person killed because of alcohol. Stay strong.
Moderation | 5:37 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
Alcohol protects again heart disease. Alcohol protects against ischemic stroke.
Some research also suggessts that drinking may cut the risk of developing
dementia, including Alzheimer's disease.
The issue at hand is: should alcohol be removed from grocery stores? From one side that believes alcohol dangerous, the answer is yes. But then why not also remove Oreo's? Read the label on the ingredients and you will see that they are horrifically dangerous and simply bad for you. With an epidemic of obesity, where is the outcry to ban products like those that indeed contribute to childhood obesity and Type II diabetes relating to that obesity? That problem is far more epidemic.
We already have laws to protect our children. I say we ENFORCE those laws vigorously instead of implementing new rules. Instead, as a society we allow the government to parent our children by demanding new laws instead of getting involved enough with our children to know what they are doing and with whom they associate.
If your child is obese and drinking, perhaps it is time to look in the mirror and make some changes.
The issue at hand is: should alcohol be removed from grocery stores? From one side that believes alcohol dangerous, the answer is yes. But then why not also remove Oreo's? Read the label on the ingredients and you will see that they are horrifically dangerous and simply bad for you. With an epidemic of obesity, where is the outcry to ban products like those that indeed contribute to childhood obesity and Type II diabetes relating to that obesity? That problem is far more epidemic.
We already have laws to protect our children. I say we ENFORCE those laws vigorously instead of implementing new rules. Instead, as a society we allow the government to parent our children by demanding new laws instead of getting involved enough with our children to know what they are doing and with whom they associate.
If your child is obese and drinking, perhaps it is time to look in the mirror and make some changes.
Utah Native | 6:33 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
Just more proof there is more hatred in Utah than any other state in the union.
Utah: The Divided State. Name ONE other state that has such bitter religious
conflict? You can't.
MetricWrench | 9:03 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
There's no anti-Mormons like Utah anti-Mormons. Living outside of Utah it
is nice to get away from such vitriol that is heaped upon my religion. I
don't really care if they sell hard liquor in grocery stores. In the state
where I live now they do. All of you who hate the LDS church need to spend some
time trying to find a better way to get along with your neighbors. This kind of
hate doesn't help your cause. Besides spending all your time seething is no
way to enjoy life.
char | 9:22 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
Hey - everyone moves here because it is such a nice place to raise children -
then they want to change everything to be just like it is wherever they came
from - You hate it so bad here, embarassed by liquer laws etc. hate the people,
move back to where you do like it. Don't try to change it here.
It's not about morality! | 11:19 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
I weary of the tired "don't legislate morality" refrain. The
reasons for placing limits on alcohol are legion and are not based on moral
self-righteousness. The link of alcohol consumption to societal problems like
drunk- driving, alcoholism, family violence, long term catastrophic health
problems, gateway to other drug use for teens, teen pregnancy, STDs, etc. has
been proven in study after study by scholars with no moral agenda. Concern over
so called alco-pops and their appeal to teens did not originate with the LDS
church. Many widespread voices in society have decried these sweet drinks and
their appeal to youth. The movement to control them did not start with the LDS
church. Studies showing that teenage drinking predisposes to alcoholism and a
host of other ills did not come from the LDS church. The long list of societal
problems tied to alcohol consumption makes the "don't legislate
morality" refrain hollow and empty. I invite the LDS bashers to cease the
silly whining and join the rest of us, LDS and non-LDS, in trying to make Utah a
better, safer place.
Krystle | 11:21 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008
Look-
-Im sorry that you have to go somewhere else to buy your source of Alcohol. However, as a 16 year old I am terrified of those out there that are underage drinkers and then set themselves out to drive, thinking it is okay. It's not okay. I have to drive, and I dont want to be a casualty of someone elses stupidity. Although banning this small source being sold in regular stores, I really dont that is the real issue here! Try the source! And as for the Church, they can hold an opinion if they choose, its a free country. However, I do sympathize with those who dissagree. The church can be overbearing in some forms-or another. Its just an opinion. We're in America, right? Last I checked freedom of speech was still under the first amendment.
-Im sorry that you have to go somewhere else to buy your source of Alcohol. However, as a 16 year old I am terrified of those out there that are underage drinkers and then set themselves out to drive, thinking it is okay. It's not okay. I have to drive, and I dont want to be a casualty of someone elses stupidity. Although banning this small source being sold in regular stores, I really dont that is the real issue here! Try the source! And as for the Church, they can hold an opinion if they choose, its a free country. However, I do sympathize with those who dissagree. The church can be overbearing in some forms-or another. Its just an opinion. We're in America, right? Last I checked freedom of speech was still under the first amendment.
Anonymous | 3:46 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008
Underage drinking is already against the law. Creating more nuisance for those
who drink responsibly and legislating against the general public is no excuse
for a lack of parenting and communication with your child.
One Grandpa | 5:19 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008
Anonymous (and others) � It's not the children of
responsible parents that I fear will harm others. It's the children of
irresponsible parents that concern me the most (although there are irresponsible
children that have responsible parents and visa versa). Restricting access to
cold medications, glue, spray paint, alcohol, etc, is a means to reducing the
opportunity for misuse and abuse. Yes, those that are determined will find a
way, but there will be some percentage that are deterred and that means that it
is working and worthwhile. This myopic view of how it will adversely affect you
versus can this help the situation is precisely what I meant about it being
about YOU and no one else. It�s not about YOU,
it�s about doing what we can to protect others which
includes the would be abusers. Apparently, you don�t like
change very much. Are you one of the ones that objected to the increase in
airport security since 9/11? I hope not.
One Grandpa | 5:21 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008
Anonymous (and others) � It's not the children of
responsible parents that I fear will harm others. It's the children of
irresponsible parents that concern me the most (although there are irresponsible
children that have responsible parents and visa versa). Restricting access to
cold medications, glue, spray paint, alcohol, etc, is a means to reducing the
opportunity for misuse and abuse. Yes, those that are determined will find a
way, but there will be some percentage that are deterred and that means that it
is working and worthwhile. This myopic view of how it will adversely affect you
versus can this help the situation is precisely what I meant about it being
about YOU and no one else. It�s not about YOU,
it�s about doing what we can to protect others which
includes the would be abusers. Apparently, you don�t like
change very much. Are you one of the ones that objected to the increase in
airport security since 9/11? I hope not.
Melissa | 6:12 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008
So people really think that pulling these off the grocery shelves will make the
DUI incidents decline? That is pretty funny, it will be interesting to see what
these people say after they make the changes and the rate stays the same,
because it will stay the same.
And if a kid is going to steal an "alco-pop", they will steal a beer or get an older friend to just buy them liquor at the liquor store. Open your eyes, this won't solve anything.
And if a kid is going to steal an "alco-pop", they will steal a beer or get an older friend to just buy them liquor at the liquor store. Open your eyes, this won't solve anything.
CAG | 7:29 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008
To the People that make the comment:
"It doesn't concern you so keep your nose out of it." Anyone that has lost their family to a drunk driver would disagree with you.
Just because a majority of the country think alcohol is acceptable doesn't make it right. Help me understand the difference of drugs and alcohol. Meth, Cocaine, Heroine, Marijuana and alcohol take a responsible member of society and renders them incapable of doing normal everyday tasks, making them dangerous to themselves and everyone around them.
To Jonas,
perhaps we should pass a law to let people responsibly use drugs. It doesn't effect anyone else anyway. Just ask the children that have a parent that drinks or does drugs. Ask their school teachers who see daily how it doesn't effect them.
"It doesn't concern you so keep your nose out of it." Anyone that has lost their family to a drunk driver would disagree with you.
Just because a majority of the country think alcohol is acceptable doesn't make it right. Help me understand the difference of drugs and alcohol. Meth, Cocaine, Heroine, Marijuana and alcohol take a responsible member of society and renders them incapable of doing normal everyday tasks, making them dangerous to themselves and everyone around them.
To Jonas,
perhaps we should pass a law to let people responsibly use drugs. It doesn't effect anyone else anyway. Just ask the children that have a parent that drinks or does drugs. Ask their school teachers who see daily how it doesn't effect them.
My drunken brother in law... | 11:56 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008
sounded like many of you nay sayers and alcohol freaks. Alcohol killed him. Get
alcohol out of stores, homes, hotels, everywhere as far as I am concerned. It
only brings on heart ache, crime, homewrecking, and Mormon hating. Drinkers
and Drunks love company. Move to Nevada and live it up there if you don't
like sober and beautiful Utah.
One Grandpa | 2:11 a.m. Jan. 21, 2008
Melissa � I was unaware that you are a soothsayer. While
the decline in number of DUIs in California isn�t
attributable to pulling alcohol from grocery shelves, the ability to prosecute
the offender under the three strikes law has. I�d rather
see laws like this be enacted across the nation. We even have a law that now
prevents a person from smoking in their own car if a minor is in the vehicle.
Talk about people that thought that their freedom was being infringed upon! But
guess what, because of stricter smoking laws, smoking in California is down as
well. Why are you opposed to any effort that may prevent a tragedy from
happening?
Emma | 11:13 a.m. Jan. 21, 2008
My father was an alcoholic and it had nothing to do with where alcohol was
purchased but the choice he made to initially drink. His drink of choice was
vodka which required that he visit a state shop. I drink perhaps a half glass of
wine every 3 - 4 months. My husband does the same. Alcoholism is not about
access to alcohol since during Prohibition new alcoholic still developed. It
comes down to having a genetic liklihood , with diabetics; native indians, and
irish backgrounds increasing your odds and then personal choice pushing the
envelope.
For those that think kids will get alcohol in stores since it's available miss out on the additional fact that the child is committing two separate crimes...shoplifting AND underage drinking. It would suggests problems at home. One could easily surmise that if alcohol wasn't available at the stores, they would get them other ways. The larger issue is troubled families abdicating parental roles to the govt. over getting involved in the lives of your children so that they make wise choices without you present not only with alcohol but with drugs, sex, reckless driving, stealing etc.
For those that think kids will get alcohol in stores since it's available miss out on the additional fact that the child is committing two separate crimes...shoplifting AND underage drinking. It would suggests problems at home. One could easily surmise that if alcohol wasn't available at the stores, they would get them other ways. The larger issue is troubled families abdicating parental roles to the govt. over getting involved in the lives of your children so that they make wise choices without you present not only with alcohol but with drugs, sex, reckless driving, stealing etc.
SLC Resident | 2:10 p.m. Jan. 21, 2008
No one here has said the obvious: The deadliest substance of all, CIGARETTES,
are still available in all grocery stores and convenience stores.
Cammy | 12:07 a.m. Jan. 22, 2008
I am not sure why the posting after mine is addressed to me. I guess we all
like to point fingers. But I did want to respond.
First of all, you served a two year mission dutifully? Good for you. You were a virgin when you were married? TMI (too much information). Are you a moronic Mormon? I don't know. Are you?
First of all, you served a two year mission dutifully? Good for you. You were a virgin when you were married? TMI (too much information). Are you a moronic Mormon? I don't know. Are you?
ryudo | 3:01 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008
Utah is always at odds between the LDS faithful and the rest of us
"gentiles." Here's an idea to solve the problem. Utah should
petition to secede from the United States. Then they can legislate mormon ideas
and ideals without the constitution and values of the rest of America in their
way. In fact they can bring back prohibition. Why not? It's better than
trying to have it both ways.
Educate | 4:30 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008
I see nothing wrong with moving certain alcohol beverages too state run liquor
stores. Being a casual drinker I don't see it as an inconvenience. I also
don't think it will be very effective. If a kid wants to get high, drunk
or stoned they will find a way.
Illegal drugs is more accessible to kids than alcohol, if they want to get drunk bad enough they will just do a beer run, bribe a bum or find an adult friend to purchase it for them. More effort should be put forth to educate the kids at school and at home about the dangers of drugs, alcohol and addictions.
Making something harder to access is fine but you have to combine it with education and awareness for it to be more effective.
Illegal drugs is more accessible to kids than alcohol, if they want to get drunk bad enough they will just do a beer run, bribe a bum or find an adult friend to purchase it for them. More effort should be put forth to educate the kids at school and at home about the dangers of drugs, alcohol and addictions.
Making something harder to access is fine but you have to combine it with education and awareness for it to be more effective.
Making alcohol less accessible | 9:43 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008
to juveniles seems more important to me than infringing on a grownups right to
buy alcohol at a grocery store. The beer isn't as enticing or as marketed
to underage drinkers as the alcopops are. The flavors are what attract the
teenagers. It's our job as adults, as a society, sure it's the parents
job. We restrict movies...I have to show ID to buy sudepherine...I'm okay
with all that if it keeps even some kids out of trouble for awhile. Though, I do
also think it's important that we prosecute the adults that provide alcohol
to teenagers too. It should be a two-prong approach to keep alcohol out of the
hands of underage drinkers.
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