Deseret News | LDS Church joins 'alco-pop' battle

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LDS Church joins 'alco-pop' battle

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View from Maryland | 2:02 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Alcohol control laws are not unique to Utah. I feel like so many angry people are quick to blame the Mormons for Utah's tight liquor laws, which belies an incredibly narrow understanding of the make up of our country. Many states have very similar laws. Any organization, religious or otherwise is free to express their opinion about the law and I love that about America. Those who claim that this is a violation of "separation of church and state" either misunderstand what that tenet really means or have an agenda to suppress any expression of religious beliefs.

Jac | 2:05 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Hey Dan.... ice cream is bad for kids it causes obesity, but I bet you still buy it for them. They haven't banned it or the million of other items in the grocery stores that ADULTS can legally buy and then they turn around and give to kids.

These companies are NOT advertising or selling their Adult beverage to the kids. Go after the stores for not inforcing the laws of checking for ID's. Go after the adults that give the kids the alcohol.

These drinks are NO DIFFERENT THAN THE BEER THAT IS SOLD RIGHT NEXT TO THEM!

Fredd | 2:08 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

A couple people have commented about children buying this from grocery stores. When you scan alcohol the computer beeps and freezes the register until the clerk presses a button signifying they checked I.D. It is silly to treat these beverages different then beer, but it is the states right to do so. But all this fearmongering about children and drunk drivers etc all being brought about by a "hard lemonade" is plain silly. I suppose one could steal these drinks easier in a grocery store then the state store. But the same is true of beer. Has anyone tried the cranberry lemonade? Its quite tasty and refreshing! But after a coupke they are a little too sweet. Give me a nice cold lager on a hot day.

Comments continue below

Nicole | 2:08 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Firstly, most of you sound like idiots. Very uneducated maybe you should research the issue a bit more. The issue here has nothing to do with LDS Church agreeing or disagreeing with the state stance on alcho-pops. The alcohol companies are breaking the law! Bottom line! These drinks contain distilled sprits, which according to Utah State Laws should be sold in only state liquor stores. By not being in there they are getting taxed less This loss adds up to over 20 million dollars a year. Think of where that money could be spent. These drinks being in grocery stores makes it more attainable by our youth. 76% of the youth that drink are drinking these alcho-pops. If you drink.. Fine drink away, not a problem! but don't let your laziness affect the youth in our state. Get over the fact that you live in a predominantly LDS society and accept the good changes that our state is trying to enact. To protect your children!

Anonymous | 2:14 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

To NKUMom: How much time do you have to have someone explain the mormon vs non-mormon thing? In a nutshell: The majority of Utah legislators/govt/etc are mormons. They make the laws in accordance to their faith and all the others be dam*ed. In neighborhoods you have kids not allowed to play with other kids because they are "nons". People are literally shunned because they don't belong to the dominant faith. This arguement today is because the LDS headquarts is insinuating itself into an argument to control those "non's" Yes, the church has a right to speak out, but when their members are all in charge of making the laws here then it's tantamount to the church telling everyone that "this is the way it is" -- us Non's are just trying to keep what little bit we have with out others FORCING their beliefs and opinions on the rest of us.

Yes, abuse of alcohol is bad, drunk driving is bad, but when you are demonized just for having a drink or two, that is bad as well!!!

To Outside UTAH | 2:15 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

You said,"So what next should we sell in stores next to the bread and Milk? Porn? Adult movie? Illegal drugs that soon will not be legal? Prostitution? It should be OK as long as we were taught correct princiles right?

Well, lets continue by having to legislate adultery, and fornication, and not paying tithing, and not doing home teaching, and not going to church, and not praying, and not reading the scriptures, and not living the word of wisdom, and not fasting, and etc, etc, etc.

Heck, we should've just let Lucifer be our Christ, because he'll make sure you do what you're supposed to. Wouldn't you want to get a guaranteed salvation as promised by Lucifer? I want my salvation guaranteed, but it seems that it's not, and it seems that none here, or anywhere is guaranteed. But the righteous, that's you, want to guarantee Lucifer's plans of force to those who are unrighteous, the alcoholics.

Why flip flop on your religion of believing Christ's free agency, but exercise control over others, which is Lucifer's plans?

Is this typical of Mormon beliefs, because Romney does that often too? To flip flop.

Jac | 2:20 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

To It Looks Like Pop: What grocery stores are you shopping at? At the majority of modern grocery stores when you scan an alcoholic beverage the COMPUTER that is scanning and adding up everything makes the checker STOP and type in the birth date of the buyer. The checker can not continue checking out unless they put the date in. Same goes for the stores with self-checkout, the person who is assisting in that area MUST check the ID before the customer can proceed. Many of these stores also make it so that the checker must be 21+ to even check you out. There has been many times that I've bought my legal beer or MALT BEVERAGE and the checker has had to stop in the middle and get someone else to finish checking me out. There are a LOT of safeguards in place. Most of the kids are getting the drinks AFTER the sale in the store (ie: an older sibling/friend/parent). Do you really think that moving these drinks to the LQR store will stop that?

out of stater | 2:27 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Please grow up! If you hate the laws in Utah so much stop whining and try to change them. If you still can't live with them, then move. Easily solved!

read the paper | 2:32 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Did anyone else read the article about the 20 yr old arrested for sexually assaulting a 10 yr old girl after he had been drinking at a party? It was in this issue of the paper, just above this article.

It's True | 3:02 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

It's true that no attacks made made on the Church will be more bitter or more persistent than those made in the Salt Lake Valley. One very wise and noble Church leader once said that no taunts will be more shrill than those of former members and those who oppose the church residing in Utah. Said he, "In that valley and in the state of Utah, Church members will be accused of the "crime" of being a majority! Some clever defectors will imitate their model, Satan, and will try and take others over the side with them. Elsewhere, you will encounter the same sort of snobbery that gave rise to "can any good thing come out of Nazareth?"

To Tired | 3:18 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

You said,"Alcohol has ALWAYS made people do stupid and rediculous things. Alcohol is bad."

Well, Christ turned water into wine, and they host loved it and even said that the best was saved for last.

I guess Christ had sinned for promoting and even serving wine. By the way, it's wine, not fruit juice as I was led to believe and preached to others when I was a Mormon missionary.

Everyone, I want to express clearly that I don't think alcohol is a good thing, but I do know that free agency is a good thing. Like it or not, we must take the bad with the good in life, and trying to remove the bad by using control is nothing short of the plan Lucifer had, to control us to get to the Celestial kingdom.

Sin is sin, no matter how small, God doesn't differentiate between a small sin and a big sin.

Control is control, no matter how small, and God doesn't differentiate in taking away small free agency or a large free agency.

Perhaps we should legislate away anything to do with printing on paper, and use of computers, because of the evils of pornography?

OUTLAWING SCHOOLS | 3:19 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

If we are so fearful of wanting to legislate everything that LDS members don't agree with, then we ought to outlaw schools, since, the likelihood of kids obtaining drugs at school is tremendously higher than younger kids obtaining alcohol at grocery stores.

A 10 year old kid can and do obtain illegal narcotics every day of the year. So, it's only wise for schools to shut down to remove access of drugs to the very young.

I think the LDS members here who are so defensive of their "beliefs" of what is right, is missing the point. It's not whether they have the right to stand for what their beliefs are, it's all about taking more liberties away from the people, instead of letting their free agencies take over, as per given by their creator.

I believe what's strange is that the LDS doctrines are based on Christ giving free agency, and Lucifer taking it, but now it seems that following Lucifer's plans are the way to go.

Lets force people to do the right thing. I guess that's the real truth of the LDS church.

Sheeps in wolf's clothing, anyone?

Is this Lucifer's plans on earth?

Liberty. . . small gov't. . . | 3:24 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Isn't it funny that I can get guns and ammo at almost any store that wants to sell them, but if I want anything with higher than 3.2% alcohol in it I have to go to a state run liquor store? If we need State Liquor Stores why don't we need State Firearm Stores?

To read the paper | 3:37 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

No, but I did read the LDS missionary that went to prison for molesting a child.

Does that mean that all LDS missionaries are bad?

Amanda in NV | 3:39 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

attention drunks and their pushers:

Knock it off! We are not interested in your laced drinks.

At least in Utah there are a few people willing to slow your assault on people for profit. My grandfather was a drunk and ruined our childhood. I am glad there is a place in this nation, a bit different than the others, where people stand up to selling lives short via addictions.

Thank you to Utah, thank you to Utah's government!

Once again.. | 3:42 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

The use of alcohol is up to the individual. Sadly many individuals abuse the use and inflict pain and suffering on the innocent. So, the distribution of alcohol is under State and Federal guidelines designed for the safety and protection of all citizens.

It's a sad thing that once again a simple news report brings out the Mormon-haters and they transform the issue from "moving alco pops to a liquor store" to "all Mormons are trying to force religion on everyone" and because "ALL Mormons are Republicans ALL Republicans are trying to rid the world of sin" or some equally ridiculeous arguement.

Give me an honest point about why alco pops shouldn't be sold in grocery stores, but be sure it includes how the roads will be kept safe from underage DUI's and how the alco pops will be kept from being sold to children and you MIGHT sound like you have an intelligent argument.

99% of you who are arguing this don't even drink these things. You only want to bash the Mormons. I am beginning to take the LDS side of things because they don't sound like idiots!

Chris | 3:42 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

this argument is why I'm so happy to have left Utah. the hatred between mo's and non-mo's is too much for me. MOrmons in CA are so much more laid back.

wow | 3:43 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

I find it so funny that those who spew forth the most hatred always show the most stupidity! READ the article! The mormon church was only RESPONDING to questions from the media about their OPINION on the matter. Hello! And how can you argue with their opinion? Underage drinking is linked to horrible crimes and accidents over and over. We need to stop being so stupid, and make what is technically a drug, harder for our children to get to. They need us to protect them. We need to be the adults, with their best interests in mind.

Once again.. again | 3:44 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Sorry but my prior post had a typo that changed it's meaning. The third paragraph should read:

Give me an honest point about why alco pops should continue to be sold in grocery stores, but be sure it includes how the roads will be kept safe from underage DUI's and how the alco pops will be kept from being sold to children and you MIGHT sound like you have an intelligent argument.

King | 4:04 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

nobody ever goes drinking thinking that they are going to kill someone, or that anybody will even get hurt. one problem is that people cant see the end from the begining. how is my drinking going to affect myself and others? im know that the kid in the williams story wasnt thinking that. he is young and going to make mistakes, we all do. so it really doesnt matter where the alcohol is sold, that can change at any time, but what does matter is the punishment for those breaking the law and how we enforce it.

Bill | 4:07 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Starting with the first response and on down the line - to those of you that want to partake of alcohol, you have that right! Do you have the right to place the beverages where they can be picked up by youth? I think not! It's hard to believe that (intellegent ?) people would think it is so hard to go to a liquor establishment to purchase alcohol. I am a resident of Wyoming and never found it impossible to purchase alcohol if that was my desire - couldn't get it at the Mini Mart or the bakery. That was really rough. I have worked in Utah and other states where the 3.2 alcohol content was supposedly the answer to youth acquiring alcohol. It may have taken 1 more beer to attain the stupidity of drunkenness. Shame! Also worked in states that had dry counties that were supposeidly voted on by residents. Their choice. The way I read the article the Church was not trying to govern anybody. The choice is up to the individual. Agency is a part of the Church. Free is debateable. There is a price for any choice, good or bad. Some people need advice! Thanks!!

Fredd | 4:09 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

It wasn't the alcohol that made him do it. take responsibility for your actions. Don't blame the demon rum.

Mike | 4:21 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Being a Mormon I am very disappointed that the church would back something like this. I wish the state would get out of the alcohol business also.

There are greater issues out there. I understand why people would get upset.

Anonymous | 4:29 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

I thought they were being remove from grocery stores because they contain "spirits".
This isn't about agency (and it wasn't free), it is about the law in place that needs to be enforced. This isn't about the church forcing anyone, either. They simply responded the way most expect they would.

To Wow | 4:33 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

"READ the article. The Church was ONLY responding to questions from the media about their OPINION on the matter" --- yes, it was just a response, but a response that those of the predominant faith will listen to AS IF it were the law of the land and they WILL do everything in their power because THEIR church gave THEIR opinion. Too bad MY Church's opinion is not nearly as valued in this state.

I found this quote by Latin Patriarch Michel Sabbah, who is the Roman Catholic Churchï¿½s highest official in the Holy Land, to be very relevant. Sabbah was talking about Christians in Israel, but I find the quote fits perfectly for us here in Utah: ï¿½If thereï¿½s a state of one religion, other religions are naturally discriminated against.ï¿½ Israel rejected his claim that people of other faiths do not enjoy equal rights, very similar to Utah Mormons rejecting the claims of people of other faiths that they are not treated fairly in Utah.

Prohibition | 4:41 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

First we had Prohibition, as a result of that action we strengthened the Mafia. If you make the purchase of alcohol more difficult you will only add a criminal component. Look at how well our making drugs illegal has worked for us. Oh, we have added an ever strengthening criminal element to that as well.

I loved the comment on cleaning products sold in stores not contributing to teenage cleaning.

The fact is that we have laws to protect underage drinking. Spend the resources to enforce those laws instead of adding inconvenience to law abiding citizens making a legal purchase.

BTW Brigham Young owned a liquor shop.

Buddyboy | 4:42 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Last summer we had tainted lettuce that made a few people sick. Hysteria struck and a nation wide search was conducted to find the offending farm. When found it was shut down. Remember legionaires desease and the fear that went through the country. neither were anywhere near the illness and death rate caused by booze. Where is the hysteria. Only hatred for those who try to solve the problem. In todays enlightened world I am astounded that more people don't come to there sences. maybe their all drunk.

To Anon 4:29 | 4:43 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

The so called "Spirits" that these drinks contain is extremely MINIMAL. There isn't enough "spirit" to make a difference, except to some narrow minded people who think that this change will make underage kids from drinking. All it will do is make it more inconvenient for those "heathens" to drink and it will bring in more tax $$ as it will probably double the price of a six pack (and yet the alcohol content will still be the weak 3.2)

weightless skittles | 4:46 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

It is quite clear that few if any of the commenters on this site work with teenagers from 13-18. You don't live in the inner cities where driving without a drivers license is quite the mode for youth. Getting easy access to any drink at a quickie store makes so many of these teenagers a serious and dangerous threat on the road. It also gives them the relaxed attitude to use lethal weapons in their "drive by" shootings. Work with kids in the projects and you will see this is not a "Mormon" thing or "Moral" thing. It is about saving lives in the car and out of the car.

Rico | 5:13 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

I've lived most of my life outside of Utah. Mostly in the mid-west and north-east. So here's a question for posters.
Do you imagine most states don't have state run Liquor stores? If the LDS church was trying to legislate morality, wouldn't they oppose the sale of all alcholic beverages? Try to work in a modicum of rationality to your comments, instead of taking the rabid dog approach. The church has a right to weigh in on this, same as anyone else. And as the article mentions, they were asked about it and didn't volunteer the opinion. This by the way is not getting involved in politics, it's taking a stand on an issue that impacts society as a whole.
BTW, Ive had many posts deleted, so don't feel lonesome if you've had to tone down your rant to get posted. Also, Ive got rip roaring drunk on 3.2
beer, ahh strohs, so like the beer, that weak content thing is a weak arguement.

californian | 5:22 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Interesting debate...not sure where I stand on this but I see a lot of hypocrisy on both sides...those who want the beverages sold in stores name other harmful things such as guns, motorcycles etc. (here we do have to buy these in separate facilities),and are quite likely the loudest advocates of gun control and punitive action against tobacco companies. Those who want the drinks removed from the grocery stores seem to be the same who want to buy guns at every corner and claim they want the government to leave them alone. I realize that this is a huge generalization but my experience has shown that as far as major groups are concerned, these trends are fairly accurate!

WC | 5:55 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

A lot of states have state-operated liquor stores. Here in Pennsylvania, wines and spirits are only sold at these locations. Everyone who has commented about the state stores acts as if Utah is the only state to have such places.

Something out of Nothing-AGAIN | 6:28 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

It's not fascist or political or biased or bigotry to give an answer to a question! This church is willing to tell you not only how they feel on certain issues but also WHY they do so. Can those of you who complain about everything the LDS church says back up your complaints with any evidence that you are doing anything to make this world a better place to live? You are just adding to the chaos! Your ridiculous comments indicate that you are only trying to make SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING--AS USUAL!!

momof3 | 6:55 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

I lost my cousin the day after her 19th birthday to a drunk driver. I am all for anything that helps to protect those of us who choose not to drink and those who would never get behind the wheel after drinking! For those who choose to attack the LDS Church, they WERE ASKED what their position was and they stated it! It's strange to me all the angry people who yell "Separation of Church and State!!!!" Some of you need to go back to school and learn what separation of church and state means. It doesn't mean that a church can't express an opinion on an issue. I've lived in Spain and you would really understand what "separation of church and state" means if you lived there since the Catholic church runs the show there. I'm shocked at the rude vileness of the people who come on here and choose to rip apart the LDS Church. It says something about you when you are so vicious and nasty. Thank you to all those who show a level of respect for others and their religion without the attacks.

In Pennsylvania... | 8:30 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Liqour laws are everywhere and people just look for excuses to think that Utah is bad. Yes, laws are unique but this wouldn't even be an issue in Pennsylvania. I live in Philadelphia and you can't purchase any sort of alcohol at a grocery store. No beer no wine, nothing. It's all in a spirits and wine store or a beer store. Stop whining about the restrictive laws. Restrictive laws are everywhere and I think are a necessary thing.

hzim | 8:55 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

I believe that rereading the article may help clarify the misleading statements made about the church and their stance on the issue. I could have sworn (not literally) that the church was responding to a question and if they would support such ban. So what if they agreed. They aren't the ones who are making the laws, thats up to our state legislature. If it's such an issue as to where you have to go and buy alco-pops, then vote for those who agree with you.

Anonymous | 9:12 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

I was at a grocery store where I saw a pack of these "alco-pops". It was missing 4 of the 6. I asked what had happened to the others. I was told they were stolen. This would only make it so legal adults can purchase these drinks, instead of minors stealing them. If this also saves one minor from driving drunk, it is worth it to me.

Gretzky | 9:36 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Zion, Illinois north of Chicago is an alcohol-free town. Salt Lake City should be too.

AdjustableSpanner | 10:14 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

It's time to do the true conservative thing and allow alcohol sales to be run by the free market. Get the state out of the retail business!

2 things | 10:39 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

1) I don't care if other states have worse laws regarding alcohol. That is not a defense, or a justification.

2) How can anyone say this isn't a political issue? This statement is regarding a proposed LAW that our POLITICIANS in the legislature are going to vote on soon. HELLO... if we're talking about making laws, that's called POLITICS and this is a POLITICAL issue.

Mahershalalhashbaz | 11:23 p.m. Jan. 18, 2008

Alcohol sales a church state issue? Not. It's a common sense issue. That's why the US prohibited it completely at one time. The vast majority of Americans had common sense at that time and got over 3/4ths of the house and senate to amend the constitution to abolish it. It was that idiot liberal FDR who got rid of prohibition. Liberals suck. They think good is evil and evil good. What good has alcohol ever done anyone? What bad has it done? How would it hurt anyone if they couldn't have it. I've never had it in all my life, and yet here I am, alive and well and happy I might add. Every day bad is caused by it. I still say drunk drivers should get the death penalty like they do in Saudi Arabia. They are willing to risk your life, I say we change the stakes and put their life at risk instead.

jim | 5:50 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008

The issue is alcohol and the spiritual destruction which results from such a choice. To disguise an alcohol delivery system in the forms suggested in this story is ANOTHER WAY the devil has grabbed hold of the hearts of conspiring men to confuse and destroy that which is good and right.
Alcohol destroys families. It destroys individuals. It destroys trust with family, employer and self. Alcohol changes relationships for the worse, especially with those we love and care about the most. This is why it is such a grave moral concern, even if it's in the form of an alco-pop or or other clever delivery device.

oldman | 6:53 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008

News Flash. Religions are not the ones who keep society in line. Believe it or not we do not need religion for people to live moral lifes. Religionist think they have the rights to all the good in the world

The church continues to defy separation of church and state. If they had their way the heathens - those who don't follow the only true church - would walk around with scarlet letters - so as to be identifiable. Remember they are the chosen of god and they will force you to believe it.

People can become deranged at ti | 7:17 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008

I find it interesting that Pennsylvania and other states have stronger liquor laws and yet everyone wants to blame the LDS Church for Utah's alcohol laws. I am a Mormon, and have lived out of state prior to joining the Church. After moving to Utah I have found that the majority of people here are deranged. They have lost all reason and sense and feel that the Church controls Utah government. Such pathetic reasoning is based on the fact that a lot of Utahns are Mormons and that the Utah Legislature has a lot of Mormons.

I hate to burst your bubbles but this control is non-existent. Contrary to what you may think the Church has very little influence in Utah government since state legislators wouldn't give it to them even if they wanted it.

Take the example of Elder Ballard signature on a letter last session opposing a bill that would have repealed "in-state tuition" for "undocumented immigrants" and the comments by numerous legislators on the floor that the opinions expressed in the letter were the opinions of individuals and didn't necessarily reflect the views of their organization. Contrary to what you may think the Church doesn't control Utah.

JWK | 7:17 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008

CeeCee's argument is lame. That's like saying that kids are going to have sex anyway so why not give them a place to do it. As it is, 'progressive' thinking believes that you should enable kids to have sex by giving them condoms, birth control, and abortions. And for the 'true believer in free agency' no one is taking your agency away. You will still be able to purchase the drink. I believe this is more of a social issue rather than a political issue. Churches have always been involved with social issues.

somewhere out here | 7:34 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008

To the posters: Thanks for the entertainment. It's been funny to read all these blogs. I needed a good smile today. Thanks.

Anonymous | 8:26 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008

Not much to add here. Someone earlier stated it pretty plainly, this is why the church is so despised.
They don't just comment on policy. THey make it. They're more of a political party than a church.

dennyG | 8:43 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008

The "Church" can't even decide it's own doctrine. It changes as often as the weather. It's time for them to pay attention to themselves and let the world alone.

Just my thought's | 8:56 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008

I don't think it matters where you can buy alcohol if some one wants it they will get it. Children learn from parents. But as far ad LDS church getting in the mess they need to stay out and take care of some of the messes they are doing,
What i mean is how they are going arounf father's rights. If a pregant girl walks through their door they tell her not to inform the father and they don't either until it's too late for him to do anything about the child. So LDS get you own stuff right before giving your opinions out.

Robert J. Petersen | 9:35 a.m. Jan. 19, 2008

There was a lot less cirrhosis of the liver in prohibition times. Less availability = less alcoholism. When industrial alcohol was invented (gin) the rate of alcoholism tripled in England. I support putting the pop alc drink in the liquor store.

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