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High school soccer: Sportsmanship requested
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UVsoccerFan | 8:42 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
Its hard to get off work early for a high school game. Thats why I referee club
games they start at 5:3o. The schools don't want to turn on the ligths on
the football fields. If they played on the football field. You can control the
fans, start the JV game at 5:30 and Varsity at 7.
Soccer Coach | 8:52 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
I am not sure if my first attempt went through so if it did I am sorry that I
posted twice.
As a coach I have not received any official notification that soccer is on probation. All I know is what the newspaper has reported. When will UHSAA send out official notifiation of the probation? Soccer had no brawls last year and we are on probation. When will football, which had 2 brawls, and basketball which has already had 1 brawl, be put on probation?
As a coach I have not received any official notification that soccer is on probation. All I know is what the newspaper has reported. When will UHSAA send out official notifiation of the probation? Soccer had no brawls last year and we are on probation. When will football, which had 2 brawls, and basketball which has already had 1 brawl, be put on probation?
Comments continue below
Why? | 9:00 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
Why such a high level of poor sportsmanship in soccer? It would be interesting
to hear from people who are really into the sport.
For me, soccer is about as entertaining as watching paint dry. So I wonder if the boredom factor may have something to do with it. As a spectator, your choices are to pick your nose or to yell at the ref and opposing players? Possibly.
For me, soccer is about as entertaining as watching paint dry. So I wonder if the boredom factor may have something to do with it. As a spectator, your choices are to pick your nose or to yell at the ref and opposing players? Possibly.
Anonymous | 9:10 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
One of the main causes of this problem is the lack of good officals. The sport
is relatively new to the state and the officiating base is not as large as the
other sports. many of the officials have never played the sport and as a fan
and player who has played since i was four find it harder to respect them. There
are good officals but there are far to many who lose control of the games and
that is when the ejections come. All that being said it is not all the officials
faults.
To Why? | 9:22 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
Soccer has no more incidents of poor sportsmanship than any other sport. The
problems lie in the fact that players can get ejected for things like hard fouls
or continuing to foul players. In basketball it is referred to as fouling out.
In soccer you can be given a red card or in this case usually 2 yellow cards
which equals a red. So in soccer it counts as poor sportsmanship but in
basketball it is nothing but getting 5 fouls.
As for your comment about soccer being as entertaining as watching paint dry - you obviously have never watched a real soccer game. Turn on the tv and find Gol TV or Fox Soccer Channel. These games in Europe are intense with top notch athletes displaying unbelievable skill and speed. Maybe at the high school level it is not all that exciting to watch soccer but neither is high school football or basketball.
As for your comment about soccer being as entertaining as watching paint dry - you obviously have never watched a real soccer game. Turn on the tv and find Gol TV or Fox Soccer Channel. These games in Europe are intense with top notch athletes displaying unbelievable skill and speed. Maybe at the high school level it is not all that exciting to watch soccer but neither is high school football or basketball.
Why ... again | 9:53 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
Thanks for you take on the sportsmanship issue. But if the unsportsmanship level
is the same in other sports as it is in soccer, why would the UHSAA put the
whole sport of soccer on probation? I've never heard of that before. It
sounds kinda bad.
I honestly have tried to absorb soccer as a spectator. I've been to pro, college, and high school matches, but to me they are all yawners. You have a bunch of people running around a field playing keep away with the ball. Once in a while they will lob the ball in front of the net hoping a defender will screw up so one of their players can get a free look at the net. This goes on for two hours, with about 30 seconds of good stuff, and in the end, woo hoo!.. the score is 1-nil. And the only thing good I can think to say to my friend is, "Your son certainly runs after that ball well." Sorry, not for me.
I honestly have tried to absorb soccer as a spectator. I've been to pro, college, and high school matches, but to me they are all yawners. You have a bunch of people running around a field playing keep away with the ball. Once in a while they will lob the ball in front of the net hoping a defender will screw up so one of their players can get a free look at the net. This goes on for two hours, with about 30 seconds of good stuff, and in the end, woo hoo!.. the score is 1-nil. And the only thing good I can think to say to my friend is, "Your son certainly runs after that ball well." Sorry, not for me.
Soccerdad | 9:55 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
I have watched my son play competitive soccer for 8 years now and find
consistency of officiating to be one of the biggest issues. As long as a referee
calls the game the same way the whole game then the players have an expectation
of what they can and can't do. It is referees who are not balanced in
calling the game that frustrate the players and parents. Another problem with
high school ball is that it is a step down from club ball and therefore you do
not get the quality of play. This results in more physical play, less skill and
more fouls. Change the times and pay the refs more, then you will get the better
refs to the games. Hey, just one persons opinion.
Soccer Parent | 10:11 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
I agree with "To Why?" about the basketball "fouling out"
and soccer receiving two yellows and being ejected which also equates to missing
the next game. I witnessed a game in playoffs last year where the referee
announced that he had run out of fouls and yellow cards and preceeded to give
automatic RED cards for minor infractions. He lost complete control of the game
and it was reported as such in the newspaper. Our team did not go on, but the
team that did had to face the next game minus two players that did not deserve
to sit. Our coach even called and expressed concern about the game to the UHSAA
about the cards that were given to the other team and the unfair impact it would
have on them. I agree with moving the Varsity games later so that there are
more soccer officials available would make a huge difference. The boys and
parents are just as frustrated as the association with the issues. I believe
they can be controlled better. I believe it would also help to have more UHSAA
officials monitoring the referees at games on an unannounced basis.
News for you... | 10:20 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
The only consistency in officiating you can expect at the high school level is
consistently poor. The funny thing is, it is consistently poor for both teams,
so it becomes a non-factor. It is an interesting phenomena that parents and
spectators can only see the poor calls made against their own team. Almost
without exception, they are blind to the poor calls against the other team. So
you accept it as part of the game and move on. Those who obsess about it will be
forever shaking their heads in disbelief and denial.
Basically, poor officiating is a constant in all sports. That still doesn't answer the question as to why the higher level of unsportsmanship in soccer than other sports.
Basically, poor officiating is a constant in all sports. That still doesn't answer the question as to why the higher level of unsportsmanship in soccer than other sports.
A High School Coach (Part One | 11:32 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
The UHSAA�s decision to put soccer on probation is very
disrespectful to those schools whose coaches and players are playing by the
rules. As we all know, coaches, players and spectators get very frustrated at
many of the decisions made by referees. In defense of soccer referees, having to
make split-second decisions is not easy. When a referee has not had the best
view of a particular incident, that task becomes even more difficult. If that
referee does not have a great deal of experience as a player or referee to draw
upon, we then have a recipe for disaster. However, that disaster is averted when
coaches, players and spectators are able to show enough restraint to avoid
dissenting behavior when poor decisions are made by referees. As coaches we need
to keep encouraging our players and spectators (and ourselves) to stay calm and
accept such decisions even when we are unfairly penalized as a result. When we
fail to do so, the UHSAA is entitled to review the situation and hand out
disciplinary measures where appropriate. That is straight forward enough.
However, when unsportsmanlike behavior is deliberate, premeditated and
cold-blooded ...
High School Coach (Part Two) | 11:39 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
... when unsportsmanlike behavior is deliberate, premeditated and cold-blooded
that is when the powers that be should get tough and impose significant
disciplinary measures on that particular school. I know of one school whose
coaches and players deliberately go out to play aggressively and intimidate
opposing players. Their unsportsmanlike behavior has often resulted in their
players being ejected. However, their poor disciplinary record has never been
highlighted in the media. In one instance last year they were allowed to
persuade an official to change his mind about a red-carded player AFTER the game
so that the player could play in the next game, which he did. The previous year,
that same school�s coaches coached their players throughout
the two-month �dead time� period when
other coaches followed the rules and kept away from their players. They went on
to win their region - much to the dismay of the other coaches in that region.
That school has never been exposed for its blatant breaking of the rules. Come
on UHSAA, punish the real culprits, those coaches and players who tarnish the
good name of soccer.
STEVE BLAISDELL | 11:42 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
The UHSAA needs to take a hard look at how the red card/ejections are being over
done by the soccer officials. Been around rec, club and HS sports as a player,
coach, ref, and dad (all 7 play soccer, football, basketball, wrestling,
etc.)
Trained as a official to ignore remarks made in protest after a tough call unless verbally abusive and loud directed at me personally.
The only way to get ejected from other boys sports is to be physically abusive or be involved in fights or commit ecessive or flagrant fouls.
Soccer refs seem to be trained to look for trouble especially of a verbal nature and use the yellow and red cards too liberally for non physical abuse.
That's mainly why there are so many ejections in HS soccer.
Trained as a official to ignore remarks made in protest after a tough call unless verbally abusive and loud directed at me personally.
The only way to get ejected from other boys sports is to be physically abusive or be involved in fights or commit ecessive or flagrant fouls.
Soccer refs seem to be trained to look for trouble especially of a verbal nature and use the yellow and red cards too liberally for non physical abuse.
That's mainly why there are so many ejections in HS soccer.
Soccer Parent | 11:44 a.m. Jan. 17, 2008
In response to "News for you..." I believe that soccer officiating is
worse in soccer because it is a relatively new sport (last 15 or so years
competitively) in Utah and those that are officiating have not played. You can
definitely tell the difference in officiating when the referee has played
before. They know the game. In basketball, football, etc. They have referees
that have played the sport more consistently and understand the game. I do not
disagree that there is difficulty in all sports, but I believe Soccer is getting
the reputation because the referees do not truly understand that game and the
players to get frustrated because of the lack of consistency. I feel there
isn't any higher level of unsportsmanship in soccer than other sports.
There was not a brawl at any highschool soccer game I went to in the past three
years, but there has been in both basketball and football. However, soccer gets
the punishment. Cards are so much different in soccer than any other sport.
Football infractions (late hit, unsportsmanlike contact) get 15 yards, soccer
players get a red card and ejection from the current game and the next. Those
are the differences.
HS Coach | 12:13 p.m. Jan. 17, 2008
Last year I had boys ejected from games for not getting up off the ground
quickly enough, saying "whatever" to a ref, and two in a playoff game
when the ref decided to "put away" his yellow card. A lot of the refs
we get have never played the game and don't have a sense of when they are
losing control until it is too late. Then they have to resort to cards to
regain control. The good refs control the game with the whistle and very rarely
resort to cards to keep control. Are there problems in high school soccer, yes,
but most sportsmanship issues would disappear with a better pool of referees and
a better understanding of the game. It used to be you had to throw a punch to
get thrown out of a game. Now if you look at some referees wrong they will
give you a card.
Re: why | 12:16 p.m. Jan. 17, 2008
I feel the same way about basketball glorified keep away.
Why... final | 12:45 p.m. Jan. 17, 2008
Thanks for the perspective, Soccer Dad. It sounds like UHSAA maybe is
inexperienced with soccer and is misinterpreting all the ejections as serious
misconduct when it maybe really isn't. Interesting.
Re: Re: why | 1:48 p.m. Jan. 17, 2008
Yes, to those who were always picked last on the playground as kids, basketball
is "glorified keep away." That's why they have to settle with
soccer. It's not so glorified, so they find it easier to succeed. They also
like the fact that they get a free ride on a stretcher every time they take a
dive or get kicked in the shin.
Step Up! | 2:20 p.m. Jan. 17, 2008
To all of you who said you've been playing for years and are still
complaining about the lack of experience or quality of the ref's, step up
and sign up to be an official! Sounds to me like you've got what it takes
to serve your comunity!
scruffy | 3:18 p.m. Jan. 17, 2008
These comments about refs may be true, but the bottom line is there are alot of
good soccer, basketball, football, baseball ect former high school or college
atheletes who wouldn't dare put on the stripes and call a game. The idea
of civic duty doesn't even cross there minds. Look at a jazz game, the god
fearing people who yell and swear at refs, then repent on the sabbath,
unbelievable. Yes, the time frame is very tough for refs to make if the game is
in the middle of the day. Just relax and enjoy the sport.
Biggest Fan | 5:20 p.m. Jan. 17, 2008
Last season I attended every JV and varisty game of my school's boy soccer
team. Officiating was horrible. Players weren't at fault in the majority of
cards.
The biggest concern I noticed was fights and brawls that broke out over racial slurs.
The biggest concern I noticed was fights and brawls that broke out over racial slurs.
T-Rex | 6:07 p.m. Jan. 17, 2008
I wholeheartedly disagree with those arguing that two yellows is the equivalent
of 5 basketball fouls. Two yellow cards is more synonymous with 2 flagrant fouls
in basketball, which would indeed get you thrown out of a game and suspended.
Likewise if you were to get two unsportsmanlike conduct calls in a football
game. Football and basketball ejections and suspensions are rare.
So the question becomes, why the prevalence of yellow and red card incidents in high school soccer? As a ground rule, in the sports world it is never acceptable to blame poor officiating. You take what the officials give you. That said, this is either the players or the coaches? So who is it?
So the question becomes, why the prevalence of yellow and red card incidents in high school soccer? As a ground rule, in the sports world it is never acceptable to blame poor officiating. You take what the officials give you. That said, this is either the players or the coaches? So who is it?
Soccer fan | 10:11 p.m. Jan. 17, 2008
Many of these high school athletes are playing multiple sports. If a lot of
these athletes are playing other sports, why are aren't they getting
ejected from the other sports at the same rate?
I agree with all of the comments about the reffing. It has to improve! I like the idea of playing under the lights in the evening, but most football fields are narrower than the regulation soccer field.
Has any of the members of the UHSAA who voted for this probation ever played in a competitive soccer match?
For those of you who think soccer is boring to watch--Have you ever played competitive soccer? Maybe try to play and understand the game before you criticize it.
I agree with all of the comments about the reffing. It has to improve! I like the idea of playing under the lights in the evening, but most football fields are narrower than the regulation soccer field.
Has any of the members of the UHSAA who voted for this probation ever played in a competitive soccer match?
For those of you who think soccer is boring to watch--Have you ever played competitive soccer? Maybe try to play and understand the game before you criticize it.
Anonymous | 7:27 a.m. Jan. 18, 2008
most of the time red cards are the result of poor officiating which lets the
game get out of hand. If the officials keep the game under control they
don't need to worry about red cards. The cards normally come when the game
is out of controll and the officials try to use their red cards to regain it.
HS Coach | 7:47 a.m. Jan. 18, 2008
re: T-Rex I agree that Two yellow cards SHOULD BE more synonymous with 2
flagrant fouls, as in other sports. However, that is not the way they are using
yellow cards in soccer matches in High School. As explained above, yellow cards
are given for not getting off the ground quick enough, asking for a call to be
explained, saying "whatever", as well as hard fouls. I believe
players and coaches alike would be OK with yellows being given for only hard
fouls or unsportsmanlike conduct. In football one player get in another
player's face after a play and the ref steps between them and sends them to
their huddles. In soccer this would be a red card and ejection from the game
and the next. Soccer players and coaches alike would also like the question
answered as to why the prevalence of yellow and red card incidents in HS soccer!
Most of these kids play club soccer and competition is just as fierce and yet I
can tell you the cards DO NOT fly like they do in High School Soccer. Move the
games to later and get the better Refs not just those that are retired and
available.
Edward | 8:23 a.m. Jan. 18, 2008
I sure wish that Coach Lee Mitchell would just get on here and set everyone
straight. That man knows what he's talking about.
HS Coach | 8:42 a.m. Jan. 18, 2008
I wasn on the committee that came up with these proposals.
We, coaches, officials and administrators, all agreed that all three of us were to blame for some of the problems.
We addressed most of the issues you guys have brought up, and a few more.
After these meetings I honestly feel you will see a much more concerted effort on everyones part to increase the sportsmanship during the boys soccer season.
I would be willing to answer any question you have about this latest attempt to clean up high school soccer.
We, coaches, officials and administrators, all agreed that all three of us were to blame for some of the problems.
We addressed most of the issues you guys have brought up, and a few more.
After these meetings I honestly feel you will see a much more concerted effort on everyones part to increase the sportsmanship during the boys soccer season.
I would be willing to answer any question you have about this latest attempt to clean up high school soccer.
Lets Face It | 9:45 a.m. Jan. 18, 2008
Utah is not a hot bed for boys soccer, as none of the men's programs at our
universities field legitimate teams (club only). So no one takes it seriously
enough to put any effort into helping the situation. Boy's soccer could be
eliminated and the resources used elsewhere, and noboby would care except a few
who think spending 110 million dollars so 4 or 5 thousand soccer fans can watch
a so-called pro game. The arguement has always been club is better for them
anyway, so lets get rid of this nightmare and move on.
Re: Lets face it | 11:40 a.m. Jan. 18, 2008
Excuse me!? First off, Westminster College has a team, BYU has a fantastic mens
soccer program, and all the other universities and colleges do have clubs, but
they still are good programs?
High school soccer has something that club soccer never has, a community behind it. It brings the school together and makes for something to do besides go watch the bore of baseball and softball. There are plenty more the 4 or 5 thousand soccer fans in this state, why do you think soccer is the most popular sport in the world. club is better then high school ball, but high school ball has more heart and passion. The problem is not the all the players fault, a lot lies on idiots like you that sound off and piss of the refs. Teach the refs the FIFA rules and all will be fixed, I promise.
High school soccer has something that club soccer never has, a community behind it. It brings the school together and makes for something to do besides go watch the bore of baseball and softball. There are plenty more the 4 or 5 thousand soccer fans in this state, why do you think soccer is the most popular sport in the world. club is better then high school ball, but high school ball has more heart and passion. The problem is not the all the players fault, a lot lies on idiots like you that sound off and piss of the refs. Teach the refs the FIFA rules and all will be fixed, I promise.
re: HS Coach | 11:57 a.m. Jan. 18, 2008
When will the UHSAA notify the schools about the probation or do we all have to
read desnews.com? My principal was shocked today when I told him about the
probation and laughed when I asked for night games.
For everyone being negative towards soccer, for example "lets face it", enjoy your sport and we will enjoy ours. We do not care if you like it so keep to your own sport. This is the world's sport and we love to play, watch, and coach it.
For everyone being negative towards soccer, for example "lets face it", enjoy your sport and we will enjoy ours. We do not care if you like it so keep to your own sport. This is the world's sport and we love to play, watch, and coach it.
Anonymous | 6:21 p.m. Jan. 22, 2008
to all those who can't stay on the topic and are bashing soccer... go
elsewhere and comment on something you might know about...
Lame | 6:04 p.m. Feb. 11, 2008
The UHSAA is so foolish. I got two red cards in my high school soccer days
(Graduated in 2007). Both cards were for hard fouls and NOT unsportsmanlike
conduct. I have several friends who play football who have also played soccer
that say football is much worse. Down there in the pits of the
offensive/defensive line, a lot more unsportsmanlike conduct goes on. A red
card does not necessarily equal unsportsmanlike conduct. Most of them occur for
hard fouls. The UHSAA is a joke.
Pro UK Player | 6:48 p.m. March 3, 2008
I agree though that the UHSAA really are blind. Try going to a game in England
(Where I played and coached at semi-pro level for over 14 years) then come back
and say the sport is violent in Utah, A day has not gone by in my playing days
when a fan has not hurled abuse, critism or the like at me and my team mates and
thats from our own fans when we did bad so you can only guess at the problem
from the opposing fans. Heaven forbid they give a red card for a accidental
mis-timed tackle, they may give him a lifelong ban. yellow may result in 10
years suspension and I'd hate to see what spitting on the grass will do.
ITS PART OF THE SPORT SO DEAL WITH IT. No wonder the USA Soccer Team (Mens) is
considered a joke across Europe, your all too nice on this side of the pond
ltrain | 10:16 p.m. March 4, 2008
the biggest issue has to be the officials, there obviously wouldn't be any
problem if there was better officiating. as a high school player i think the
officials should also be on probation, it has to work both ways, not just us
should be punished
Pro UK Player | 5:50 p.m. March 5, 2008
Good point ltrain. I was at the summer games in Cedar City last year where a
linesperson claimed a no-goal because it did not cross the line. How could they
see when wearing sunglasses so dark it would have looked like mid-night to them.
They claim they play under Fifa regulations but yet they do not
HS player | 12:33 p.m. May 1, 2008
To me it is all the referees fault that there is such commotion. If they would
make decent calls it would not be as bad. Sometimes the ref calls the games one
sided not just for the other teams sometimes it is even for my team.
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In Idaho 8 man football we played at 4 in the afternoon and refs went somewere else to ref on friday. However for getting off work can cause problems.